So where is “Rage mode” ? Let’s finish the melee rework before moving on to other things?

[Andele3025]

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Kuva Nukor has no animation time and its not like its its performance independent of the actual other weapons, I swear!

Even with your insane premise, 0.6s performance of another gun to give 5 procs still puts S&AP at initial damage of 274k and a dps of 360k, 266k if you actually account for the need to build combo.

And thats with a stance that has a busted multiplier.

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You completely ignoring that the kuva nukor and vermisplicer exist, while insisting there's time to headshot every enemy is just absolutely hilarious. Especially when you also pretend guns don't need to reload. The sonar strawman was addressed, but it's hilarious you keep pushing it.

Oh no, god forbid you measure without external modifiers and want to assume basic skill requirements. Also no, i assume reload even in case of guns where they can very reasonably kill a pack before a empty mag or where you get better reload performance with holster mods.

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I even gave you a chart of a weapon you basically called trash, using a stance you don't think is "outlier", despite the stances you think are outlier being less so than the trash ones you think are normal, and it blows away your comparison points.

No, i called the scindo ok/on par with kuva weapons like most primes. And you again went outright wrong because scindo with broken bull goes from CO0 15k to CO5 115k dps (or if we use Prime elemental, to 188k dps; pfs weeping setup being 9k raw, 27k with stance and +600% base and thats with the equal skill assumption that you 3 spin clip at least once and properly use a crowd fall attack instead of stagger).
I have to ask if you still think that CO somehow is a total and self multiplying modifier to get even close to those numbers.

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Dude, what. You can roll out of any swing at anytime. I honestly don't even get this complaint. Especially when they're less animation locked than before, when we couldn't roll out of them.

Animation lock is what prevents movement input during swing, not just dodge cancels. Its why its dodge is a cancel in the first place. Its why stances like tempo royale are faster at moving forward with the neutral attack chain than the forward attack chain.

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

 The only way out of a pause combo in the old system was to stop meleeing, and wait for the window to reset.

Or just block cancel (which also worked on block attack chains if you tapped slide, and could be done during recovery animations, and doing so was the best aoe and movement combo for when using august mesto).

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

That still doesn't increase the weapon's single target dps, and melee still wins on the group dps because of follow through. 

That bit depends entirely on the density and enemy type, most cases anything at 0.6 or below will have similar performance to 2.5/5 humanoid PT pre proc damage where heat guns win against tough stuff then melee slash then anything else.

[nooneyouknow13]

2 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

broken bull

You are obsessed with forward combos to an unhealthy degree. These combos are for when you want to clear trash that doesn't need your full DPS to kill and do less DPS by design.

So here's the Scindo chart again, with a correction to my Crowd Fall numbers(I only changed the combo multiplier in 0 status, whoops), and Broken Bull:

Still 3 statuses for Crowd Fall to exceed 200k dps, and 6 for Broken Bull. But Crowd Fall is actually meant to do damage, and Broken Bull is meant to deal some damage while moving. It's not meant to be the only combo you use, I have no idea why it would be the only combo you'd use outside of a fissure.

Like, I have no idea what your playstyle even is. You apparently take all the time in the universe to land nothing but headshots, but can't be bothered to let go of forward while meleeing because "animation locks". You talk about losing damage or giving up focus to maintain combo, but the I'm only comparing builds that have already dropped a damage mod for drifting contact. My numbers are completely frame agnostic, because any frame can grab a CO melee, and primer. We can prime as many statuses now as pure status CO melee could ever manage by itself in the old system.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

That still doesn't increase the weapon's single target dps, and melee still wins on the group dps because of follow through. 

actually, it does. if you say, were shooting 5 Enemies at the same time with the main Beam, each one of those Enemies would chain to 4 other Enemies. you'd be hitting each Enemy 5 times.
if you mean at times when you're fighting a Boss or w/e and so there literally are no other Enemies then sure that doesn't increase your Damage then - but when in this game are we fighting one Enemy?

that is something which is comparable to Stances offering Damage Multipliers and/or Multi-hits.

 

 

 

also side note but all usage of Heavy Melee is pbbbbbbbt compared to my usage of using Resplendent Calma or Sundered Tusk - with Warcry so that the Melee Class isn't so pathetically slow that i want to die. the other Animations are chump change compared to that. even without using Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds, or even Condition Overload because that's too much effort, i pretty easily deal ~600,000 per hit, and each cycle of those overhead swings hits more than once :)

however i'll throw you a bone and yeah, Broken Bull sucks - after its stats got nerfed a while ago, it's basically trash. overhyped for no reason. it's a waste of time to even use it versus just getting to the Enemies faster or using a different Animation.

1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Its why stances like tempo royale are faster at moving forward with the neutral attack chain than the forward attack chain.

uhh.... that's just due to almost every Stance being built wrong and Neutral has more forward movement than Forward does, for incomprehensible reasons.

[Andele3025]

1 hour ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You are obsessed with forward combos to an unhealthy degree. These combos are for when you want to clear trash that doesn't need your full DPS to kill and do less DPS by design.

Those are the combos you will be using 99% of the time when progressing through a mission (or forward block), because in most cases neutral combo animation locks and the speed of the animation movement is slower than sprint and bullet jump speed. Even in survival and defense you tend to keep moving from place to place when playing melee.
You know, since the basic actual average of 40-45k will kill most enemies with the standard multipliers (i mean its not like the

1 hour ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

My numbers are completely frame agnostic, because any frame can grab a CO melee, and primer.

And any frame can have a banshee in the party (or slap on breach surge), doesnt change that you are adding external modifiers when objective performance of something depends on itself with no external modifiers.

1 hour ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

We can prime as many statuses now as pure status CO melee could ever manage by itself in the old system.

You can double a primers direct potential procs (kinda, because weapons like the pox already added a extra status independent of mods and actually linger and back then had a point to also corrosive to 0), but thats still weaker than old COs total (self accounting) multiplier. As in massively weaker because both pressure point and combo counter multiplied with it. And it still typically wasnt used outside of something like the mentioned pox 3 status because it was more work and time for less effect as people just took the weapons own procs or slapped it in a build with a frame that can spread procs through regular gameloop and killed the enemy before.
God forbid we add the multipliers from level 5-7 crit with meme strike.