Remove “cold steel” from nightwave

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, chaotea said:

Ok, but in that case you didnt mention that they only do melee damage.

To be fair, the main enemies only do melee damage.

Infested are dangerous because they have a lot of 'sapper' units and 'support' units. Frequently spawning together, for example, are Healers and Venomous Eximus units. The one provides all allies with a massive damage reduction (which is achieved by Grineer Heavies at around level 80, and by the lancers around 100+) and the other provides every single ally in range with Toxin damage that bypassed shields and directly attacks our health.

::Edit:: @Zeddypanda pointed out the wiki numbers earlier, so an Infested Charger at level 100 with the Steel Path bonus would have 21,558 Health, but the second an Ancient Healer spawns, that Charger now has an EHP of 215,580. While that's still not on par with the Lancer that has 331,334, it's way higher than the Corpus Crewman with 35,375.

They have Mutalist Ospreys, Swarm Moas, Lobbers, and Disruptor Ancients that give all their allies the ability to remove our energy. All Ancients also have the hook, which means that, unless you have knock-down protection or evasion functions... you're dragged into range of all of those melee attacks.

So yeah, the main enemies only do melee, but if they ever actually hit you, a high level group of Infested will kill you. Very, very quickly. Especially if you didn't see a Mutalist Osprey do its dash somewhere a little off-screen and you happen to step sideways into the gas clouds. That'll be a world of hurt.

Don't underestimate them. But do exploit that really big weakness they have; pop the Ancients and all the rest can do is flail at you.

[TheLexiConArtist]

42 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

To be fair, the main enemies only do melee damage.

Infested are dangerous because they have a lot of 'sapper' units and 'support' units. Frequently spawning together, for example, are Healers and Venomous Eximus units. The one provides all allies with a massive damage reduction (which is achieved by Grineer Heavies at around level 80, and by the lancers around 100+) and the other provides every single ally in range with Toxin damage that bypassed shields and directly attacks our health.

This, exactly. With the caveat of the increasingly anachronistic variants of Corpus units getting more OP based on release date rather than level or location, I'd argue it's often much less strife to just carve through some Corpus waves with pure Toxin on your weaponry than it is to faff around in Infested missions where you frequently get Ancient spam causing layering of all their buffs and endless aimbot-hook knockdowns.

Let's recap:

• Toxin Ancients (not Venom Eximi) convey not only Tox damage to surrounding units (and their own aimbot hooks), they also provide 100% Tox immunity. Plus, the 'get rekt lol' vomit attack.
• Disruptor Ancients reducing ability damage to 10% and duration to 25%, and any unit that touches you instantly zeroes out your energy at that level since it inherits the damage buff all Infested got given a short while ago.
• Healer Ancients convey their damage reduction, and soak all status procs from affected units, and - I'm still convinced this is a bug - they heal themselves by soaking damage dealt to other units, instead of taking damage for them by doing so. Which can be maddening if you're using anything with inherent AOE and has a rapid/lower damage profile instead of high alpha strike, you practically can't not outheal the damage you're doing.

In Steel Path spawn frequency, you're almost guaranteed to have 2, if not all 3 of these effects constantly replenished. Elemental eximi are common, adding extra resistances on top of all of that too.

Compared to that, just tanking a bit of bullet damage from the old Corpus lads while you ignore their shielding entirely? Doesn't seem so bad.

 

I'd agree 500 SP units would be closer to reasonable ask as compared to 1000 non-SP units for the same reward. But if we want to talk about inconsistent time investments, I have to say the Lich Kill is still by far the worst.

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

To be fair, the main enemies only do melee damage.

You should probably read the whole conversation rather than just the last reply in it. No one was talking about melee damage. It was an exageration to prove a point.

 

I had said that infested are easier to kill in steel path because they have only health bonuses, whereas Corpus and Grineer have health and armour / sheilds.

He said "the fact they have different resistances is more what makes them harder to kill".

I replied that i was only pointing out the main issue as we were talking steel path, not argueing all the points.

He relied: "You said Infested are easier to kill because... "

And thus i used the melee thing to point out that he had done the exact sane thing by not listing all the possible atributes that may make infested easier to kill.

 

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Infested are dangerous because they have a lot of 'sapper' units and 'support' units.

I mean these really arnt much of a problem. Certainly they produce alot of energy leach units, but its easy enough to manage that.

Healers boost health, but they can be easily killed and the buff is gone.

Disrupters are more a pain, but they're rare enough to be ignored.

The only real dangers are venomous units, but they're few enough that you can just focus them down.

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So yeah, the main enemies only do melee, but if they ever actually hit you, a high level group of Infested will kill you. Very, very quickly. Especially if you didn't see a Mutalist Osprey do its dash somewhere a little off-screen and you happen to step sideways into the gas clouds. That'll be a world of hurt.

Don't underestimate them. But do exploit that really big weakness they have; pop the Ancients and all the rest can do is flail at you.

I mean this reads as a basic on paper summery of infested, but doesnt really match the reality. Ive been doing Steel path infested missions solo and never taking any damage. Because its laughably easy to avoid any of these dangers. Especially if you staick on a poison resistance arcane.

Also the point of the OP was that the 'kill 1000 SP enemies' was too hard. All my point was that its easy vs infested, and 8 min of wandering around a map if you're using a xaku (because you dont even need to shoot a gun with him).

[chaotea]

34 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

In Steel Path spawn frequency, you're almost guaranteed to have 2, if not all 3 of these effects constantly replenished. Elemental eximi are common, adding extra resistances on top of all of that too.

Yes, but this is true of Corpus and grineer too, who have equally irriatating abilities. Nulifiers, Nulls, Scorpions, Bombards. At the end of the day Infested are easier to kill.

37 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I'd argue it's often much less strife to just carve through some Corpus waves with pure Toxin on your weaponry than it is to faff around in Infested missions where you frequently get Ancient spam causing layering of all their buffs and endless aimbot-hook knockdowns.

The problem is that you need only toxin damage. You cant branch out into other forms of damage, as only the toxin will go through. Even then on average infested only seem to have about 20% more health than their corpus counterparts.

Also, toxin has a 50% bonus to units like crewmen, while a -25% to robots.

If you took fire against infested, you'd get 25% or 50% against the basic enemy types, and against ancients the panic effect generally keeps them busy for the half second you need to kill them.

Theres also the fact that they dont shoot, so you really dont need any defensive mods on, and can get by with the toxin status nulification from an arcane if you want the safety net.

 

44 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I'd agree 500 SP units would be closer to reasonable ask as compared to 1000 non-SP units for the same reward. But if we want to talk about inconsistent time investments, I have to say the Lich Kill is still by far the worst.

As i said originally, 1000 SP kills is easy, as you just take a Xaku if you have one, or some nuker if not, to the easiest infested survival node and its should only take 8 - 10 min to get all 1000 kills.

Also, the 1000 SP kills is a 7000 point bounty. So the comparisons are 100 Eximus, or 1,500 normal enemies. So fairly reasonable all round.

[Zeddypanda]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So yeah, the main enemies only do melee, but if they ever actually hit you, a high level group of Infested will kill you. Very, very quickly.

This is a fascinating breakdown, but in practice I just find steel path infested to be nothing compared to corpus. Corpus have nullifiers, scramblers, and ranged aoe attacks, while infested are just trivially countered by pretty much any way I usually play the game.

An example is I bring my Atlas with Path of Statues and Rubble Heap. You spend about 20 seconds building 1500 rubble, and now you just press 1 for the next 20 minutes while being invulnerable and giving exactly 0 damns about having your energy sapped.
I also have Firewalker subsumed to protect my friend playing Nekros from all statuses and poison spam. Is that enough to keep him alive? Not sure, probably not. He's got blood altar and vazarin so I don't have to worry about his well being much. We haven't yet devised a similarly overpowering setup for corpus.

Another setup is one I like to call "I'll just bring vauban", where you equip repelling bastille and a lot of range. It's a pretty hard counter to most things in the game, but infested in particular since they can't and won't attack you from beyond the suction radius of four stacked vortexes. Thanks to steel path spawn rates, energy upkeep is not a problem and our biggest problem is doing maintenance patrols to dislodge enemies stuck in terrain and sometimes acolytes.

[TheLexiConArtist]

17 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Yes, but this is true of Corpus and grineer too, who have equally irriatating abilities. Nulifiers, Nulls, Scorpions, Bombards. At the end of the day Infested are easier to kill.

Your only real hit here is the Nullifier, since we already discount Grineer entirely on the armour basis (also a Bombard is.. nothing special, really?).

Same problem. Under-weighted enemy able to be spammed out whilst wearing many hats. Nullifiers are a terrible unit design which should have been a temporary fix long removed by now, as I've described often in the past.

Having 'hit me first' units can be okay, but when there's no protection against the quantity (often capable of codependency as well) at a given time, or no downtime between a kill and freshly-spawned influence coming back, then the theory is lost in practice.
If they also prevent you dealing with themselves (as in the Healer damage absorption bug), that's also a problem.

 

Scrambus/Combas, by comparison, are far more restricted in the hats they wear - figuratively and literally, in fact - and even they are weighted as heavier units rarely spawning in like a constant assembly line.

17 minutes ago, chaotea said:

The problem is that you need only toxin damage. You cant branch out into other forms of damage, as only the toxin will go through. Even then on average infested only seem to have about 20% more health than their corpus counterparts.

Also, toxin has a 50% bonus to units like crewmen, while a -25% to robots.

If you took fire against infested, you'd get 25% or 50% against the basic enemy types, and against ancients the panic effect generally keeps them busy for the half second you need to kill them.

What's better? Toxin damage going through shields to hit robotic health for 75% damage, or dealing a consistent 10% damage (or less, through Healer status soaks or Tox immunity) because there's never not a conga-line of Ancients?

The only point where it really breaks down is when DE's failure to address the root cause of 'link Tirnity' rears its ugly head: uncapped additive resistances. Sorties with enhancements are the only place it happens regularly though, you need to be unfortunate enough to have a set of Eximi auras stacked on an already-resistant unit to get zeroed out elsewhere.

17 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Theres also the fact that they dont shoot, so you really dont need any defensive mods on, and can get by with the toxin status nulification from an arcane if you want the safety net

Aimbot ancient hook says hi (and also die). I can't count the number of times one's been flawlessly pre-fired into my face by an enemy I never 'met' as I turn a corner into an entirely new room, even while travelling at high parkour speeds.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

You should probably read the whole conversation rather than just the last reply in it. No one was talking about melee damage. It was an exageration to prove a point.

2 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

This, exactly.

57 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

This is a fascinating breakdown, but in practice I just find steel path infested to be nothing compared to corpus.

Apologies if there's any confusion here, I did read, and what you guys may have missed is my own earlier comments that I actually find the Infested a far easier faction to combat on Steel Path.

I was providing the background because we can't have a proper debate without the facts.

Also, LexiCon? I mentioned Venomous Eximus instead of Toxic Ancients specifically because, while Toxin Ancients do the same thing, the Venomous Eximus appear to spawn as a direct 'elite' upgrade to them in the spawn table, which is why you'll encounter them more often on tiers of Steel Path once you progress to slightly beyond the base play times for the missions.

In any case.

I'm 100% on the side that the Infested are the easiest faction to kill because of all the contributing factors.

Let's recap those;

1. All of their damage mitigation can be removed by killing priority targets or by kiting them away from those targets a little.
2. They are base vulnerable to the best-scaling damage combos we have in the game (Slash, Viral, Heat) due to only one of their health types having a resistance to any of them, and the one it does have a resistance to is Viral, which is there for the damage multiplying Status anyway.
3. They tend to charge boner-first into anything we throw at them as long as we're not camping on high objects.

In terms of player interaction they have the least direct threat, they have the least direct interactions. Without awareness of their inter-faction functions they can be harder to kill than Corpus units, due to raw numbers, but that is easily mitigated by just shooting the big guys first, or by overwhelming them with raw damage as we're used to doing. And, even though they have Disruptors and Healers, there's plenty of Control functions from our abilities that can simply turn them into a ball of 'kill me, please' in front of you.

Again, sorry if this comment of mine came off a little different than how I meant it. I was hoping to contribute some more to the conversation by not immediately dismissing the Infested on account that their only real form of damage is Melee.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Apologies if there's any confusion here, I did read, and what you guys may have missed is my own earlier comments that I actually find the Infested a far easier faction to combat on Steel Path.

I was providing the background because we can't have a proper debate without the facts.

Also, LexiCon? I mentioned Venomous Eximus instead of Toxic Ancients specifically because, while Toxin Ancients do the same thing, the Venomous Eximus appear to spawn as a direct 'elite' upgrade to them in the spawn table, which is why you'll encounter them more often on tiers of Steel Path once you progress to slightly beyond the base play times for the missions.

It is a matter of opinion. Mine is that the Corpus - nullifier potential notwithstanding, and presuming you stick the pure Toxin on - are broadly easier since the resulting health pool is lower and they're not sporting innate Damage Reduction effects otherwise.
I didn't mean to say that's an absolute, as sometimes you can get Infested missions spawning fewer Ancients so it's not as invariably consistent of a presence, or your kit is otherwise not impeded enough by the layers of Ancient nonsense that the non-toxin damage can contribute more. _{Also if you have Primed Sure Footed to nope the aimbot hooks.}

That aside, I made specific mention of the Tox Ancients because more than Tox Ancients can be Venom Eximi, and those others don't inherently pass over the toxic augmentation effect, to my knowledge V-Eximi by themselves are just the opposing DoT stacking and friendly resistance aura.

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Your only real hit here is the Nullifier, since we already discount Grineer entirely on the armour basis (also a Bombard is.. nothing special, really?).

Well, it depends on what you're using for survival. I run my Xaku with little to no survival mods, because his 4th basically negates most damage. But scrambler units can disable that and strip you of your survival.

Bombards i brought up just because of the shear tankyness, and the way they do damage which lingers in an AoE.

2 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Nullifiers are a terrible unit design which should have been a temporary fix long removed by now, as I've described often in the past.

I always thought they should have been 2 units. 1 blocks powers but bubble doesnt shrink when shot, the other bullets.

3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

at a given time, or no downtime between a kill and freshly-spawned influence coming back, then the theory is lost in practice.
If they also prevent you dealing with themselves (as in the Healer damage absorption bug), that's also a problem.

I dont find im ever overwelmed with any aura infested types. I've also never experienced any issue with killing infested healers, and for ages thought they just healed infested with the pulse and nothing else. I honestly dont even register them as a threat other than the grapple.

 

Just in general, when it comes to specialist units (other than those energy drain mothercluckers) i dont see the infested as overly threatening and generally think 'ok, time for a relaxing mission'. Corpus is much the same, with a few more noticable units. Like Hyenas. Grineer are weird in that their threats seem more sporadic, but when they hit you its so much worse. Scorpions, shild bash knockdowns. Stealing your guns!

 

It might be, on retrospect, that im not much of a melee user. I know its op right now, but ive just always been more of a gun guy. So maybe that makes my experiences with infested easier.

 

Also what to note for anyone whose not really used it, but ive not been joking when discribing Xakus effectivness vs infested. His gun ability mows them down. It really trivialises infested SP!

 

3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

What's better? Toxin damage going through shields to hit robotic health for 75% damage, or dealing a consistent 10% damage (or less, through Healer status soaks or Tox immunity) because there's never not a conga-line of Ancients?

The fire one. Because Healers make very little difference to how my ignis performs in solo survival missions. Im compleatly serious when i say ive not noticed this 'op healer buffs' everyone goes on about. But then again, even if so then its a case of whats better: dealing more damage against an enemy that can shoot you at range, or dealing ocasionally less against units that cant touch you?

3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Aimbot ancient hook says hi (and also die). I can't count the number of times one's been flawlessly pre-fired into my face by an enemy I never 'met' as I turn a corner into an entirely new room, even while travelling at high parkour speeds.

I dont get hit that much by them. Starting to think you might just be unlucky. Or im lucky. (Well, less so when it comes to grineer sheilds. They always boink me.) When i do see them winding up for it i just roll. Doesnt hit you if you're rolling.

[chaotea]

16 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

It is a matter of opinion. Mine is that the Corpus - nullifier potential notwithstanding, and presuming you stick the pure Toxin on - are broadly easier since the resulting health pool is lower and they're not sporting innate Damage Reduction effects otherwise.
I didn't mean to say that's an absolute

Oh i agree. Alot of the current conversation started because I suggested it was easy fighting infested with a particular loadout on steel path.

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2021-03-01 at 3:05 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Me personally I don`t care for the damage mete and I don`t enjoy steel path coz I don`t find fighting high-level enemies fun and there is no incentive to do it in terms of rewards, I am a part of the minority that don`t like steel path, some people might enjoy playing it but me and other people we don`t want to be forced to play it.

there you have your answere:

if you don't like it, don't do it - same as with every other NW task. ofc, if you want  progress as fast as possible you will need to do even those things you don't particulary like. i also don't like nightmare missions, sysndicate missions or doing the tripple-don hunt in NW, but i can do them just fine even though i don't get any other reward i would still need other than said NW-points... but i often left them unfinished in the past (especially when we had those rank-cap in place and i couldn't get any further).

in short: you only feel 'forced' because you want something but are unwilling to do the necessary steps for it - it's only your personal taste (or ability to do so, i can't tell). and to add my personal view: i like the steel-path NW challenges and would like to see more of them, not only kill x enemies but also like survive x-wave/x-minutes or do x-rescues in SP...

[Zeddypanda]

I'm still trying to imagine the person with both of these reactions:

Kill or capture an Eidelon Hydrolyst:

"Oh, this one? Let me just bust out my gilded amp, assemble a hyper specialized squad, switch focus tree to one not generally used in the game that's you only put points in for Eidelons, and we'll prepare for nightfall in 1h".

Kill 1000 enemies on the steel path:

"Oh no! I have to... Use any of the 200 ways this game has of bypassing or removing armour while being functionally immortal? I better go complain on the forums. I wish I could cycle this back to the hydrolyst thing."

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

The thing I hate the most about this community is how utterly predictable so many of you are.  So many of the responses to this are so canned I wouldn't be shocked to learn some of you were bots. (not that I actually think that.  That's just how lacking in thought most of these responses are.)

"I didn't have an issue with it.  Just do 'x'."

"NW is optional."

"Here's a list of 'I don't like 'x' either so remove it' to try to make the tired, useless point that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it should be changed because DE doesn't make mistakes."

It's as boring as SP is, honestly.  I want to actually discuss the overarching issue that OP's point touches on:  Most of the NW challenges are bad.

First off, things like 10 Nightmare missions.  For 7k standing.  70% of a rank for 10 missions, when a single alert used to net you a whole reward.  Considering bonus ranks only get you 15 credits, and all the credits available through the first 30 ranks don't usually average out to much more than that, you're looking at multiple ranks for the credits required to get something like an alt helmet that used to be a single mission to acquire.  Multiple ranks when 10 Nightmare missions is 70% of a single rank.  10 missions = 70% of a single rank when you need multiple ranks for a single item VS 1 mission for 1 reward.  Many have tried to help me with this math and how NW is better and they were all wrong.  Someone help me out here.

Second off you have the issues of things like SP, Profit Taker, and to a lesser degree Tricaps.  A mountain of progression is required to actually run these things for yourself.  The Tricap you can technically get hard carried through.  Most folks aren't going to weaken 1,000 enemies in the SP for some newbie to take down for 7k standing.  You literally cannot be taxied into PT.  You have to grind through an entire syndicate, all the bounties on the next syndicate, and only THEN can you even access the fight, which is a massive slog and difficult for many players.  Don't come at me about being bad, my average PT time is like 5-6 minutes solo.  The amount of grind required just to have access to completing many of these challenges is atrocious.

And lastly there's the fact that many of these challenges aren't really challenges, but just chores.  The speed capture, despite being very easy, is at least what a proper challenge looks like.  It requires a degree of skill and game knowledge to pull off and despite there being cheese loadouts for it, can be completed in the most basic of gear.  Most devs think designing challenges like this is too much work, which is why so many of them resort to challenges being "Grind your way into this amount of progression, then do this fairly passive thing."  Was the "challenge" of killing 1,000 SP enemies easy for me?  Yes.  I used Grendel, sat my fat ass in the center of a tile and ate 1,000 enemies.  I suppose I could have melee'd them or something for slightly more engagement.  It was boring and would have been boring and passive regardless for me, and will be difficult and frustrating for people like OP.  It's a lose/lose.  We need more properly designed NW challenges that aren't just "Spend resources to make a forma, then use that forma on something you don't need forma on because you've forma'd your whole arsenal already."  

They should have a community workshop and let everyone come together to make more engaging, fun, and most of all accessible challenges.  Things that reward and require skill and game knowledge, but are approachable by anyone within the playerbase, even if they have to "git gud" to complete them.  Right now most of these challenges are things you have to engage with if you want the standing and are more like chores on a to-do list than things you actually want to be doing.  Best case scenario is it's things that are all completed passively by playing.  Even then, those aren't exactly rewarding, and it's a missed opportunity for better content.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2021-03-12 at 9:09 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

-snip-

Thanks for saying this, you`re the only one on here that`s got some damn sense on here, people saying "You just can`t play" and when I remove myself from it to avoid arguing I get "ha ha you can`t hack it" this is the reason I sometime don`t like talking to people. I like Eidolon hunts because that's the kind of challenge I like, if I saw a post of someone saying "remove it" I`d just ignore or say "I disagree because" or try to convince the why it`s fun but you won`t catch me jumping down someone's throat over an opinion.

I don`t like railjack but I'm not going to cuss someone out coz they talk positive about it, I have the ability to talk and give feedback but I don`t have to talk all the bloody time. The way I see it just because you can doesn't mean you should.

As for what you said, I do agree that DE should involve use more like Asking what challenges we want, something in the form like the warframe competition. For example I like operators, I would like to see them involved more in NW (and for them to have operator only missions) since we use them a lot like the "do a spy mission with operators" most ppl will dislike it but idc coz it`s what I like and as long as it`s still in the game I'm good.

 

They have just put up a mission called "The path less travelled" where you have to complete 5 steel path missions, even through I still don`t like them including steel path at least it`s not tedious.

The alerts give me a reason (to a certain extent), you can do quick missions (rescue, sabotage, capture) and this is something new players can do. This is way better than the cold steel mission hands down.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Oh not again -_-

[ES-Flinter]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Vexx757:

Oh not again -_-

Just use your Ash. I did it accidentally on a survival run (grineer, Sedna) while leveling Zephyr...

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

I did it accidentally on a survival run (grineer, Sedna) while leveling Zephyr...

Mah man...!

[Lutesque]

On 2021-03-01 at 4:05 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

kill 1,000 enemies from steel path.

Wait... What ? 😳

Steel Path has invaded Nightwave now ? 😱

Why !!!

 

This is even worse than the Kill The Profit Taker Act....

On 2021-03-11 at 12:41 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

The one provides all allies with a massive damage reduction (which is achieved by Grineer Heavies at around level 80, and by the lancers around 100+) and the other provides every single ally in range with Toxin damage that bypassed shields and directly attacks our health.

Don't forget Status Immunity aswell....  That combination is extremely lethal at higher levels especially if you throw Arbitration Drone's into the mix... Further increasing the Bull S#&$... 😱 !!!

On 2021-03-11 at 12:41 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Don't underestimate them. But do exploit that really big weakness they have; pop the Ancients and all the rest can do is flail at you.

Weapons with Innate Radiation Damage help nicely with these Enemies.... It's my favourite Combined Damage Type...

On 2021-03-11 at 1:50 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

•  
• Healer Ancients convey their damage reduction, and soak all status procs from affected units, and - I'm still convinced this is a bug - they heal themselves by soaking damage dealt to other units, instead of taking damage for them by doing so. Which can be maddening if you're using anything with inherent AOE and has a rapid/lower damage profile instead of high alpha strike, you practically can't not outheal the damage you're doing.

I forgot that they do that too.... 

Your claim that it might be a Bug has merit in that this doesn't seem to work the same way when you use Ancient Healer Specters.... But then Warframe's can't take that much Damage to begin with for me to be sure it's a bug....

On 2021-03-11 at 1:50 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

 

Compared to that, just tanking a bit of bullet damage from the old Corpus lads while you ignore their shielding entirely? Doesn't seem so bad.

Infact it's quite Refreshing 😁 !!!

On 2021-03-11 at 3:12 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Aimbot ancient hook says hi (and also die). I can't count the number of times one's been flawlessly pre-fired into my face by an enemy I never 'met' as I turn a corner into an entirely new room, even while travelling at high parkour speeds.

They don't miss.... I swear I've been Hooked by one of these Things while using Loki's Switch Teleport.... That's the level of Aimbot Bull S#&$ we are dealing with here 😱 !!!

On 2021-03-12 at 4:09 AM, fr4gb4ll said:

my personal view: i like the steel-path NW challenges and would like to see more of them, not only kill x enemies but also like survive x-wave/x-minutes or do x-rescues in SP...

😐 Why do you hate us 😐 ? 

On 2021-03-12 at 6:46 AM, Zeddypanda said:

I'm still trying to imagine the person with both of these reactions:

Kill or capture an Eidelon Hydrolyst:

"Oh, this one? Let me just bust out my gilded amp, assemble a hyper specialized squad, switch focus tree to one not generally used in the game that's you only put points in for Eidelons, and we'll prepare for nightfall in 1h".

This one sounds like me.... I mumble and then do it immediately.... You know those people who log in during Server Reset and knockout all these Challenges in the first 3 Hours.... Yep.. that's me... And I hate every moment of it 😤 !!!

On 2021-03-12 at 11:09 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The thing I hate the most about this community is how utterly predictable so many of you are.  So many of the responses to this are so canned I wouldn't be shocked to learn some of you were bots. (not that I actually think that.  That's just how lacking in thought most of these responses are.)

"I didn't have an issue with it.  Just do 'x'."

"NW is optional."

"Here's a list of 'I don't like 'x' either so remove it' to try to make the tired, useless point that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it should be changed because DE doesn't make mistakes."

Sounds like you've been at this for a Very very very Tall Time... 😲 !!!

On 2021-03-12 at 11:09 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You literally cannot be taxied into PT.

There was a strange Bug two Years Ago that allowed friends to Invite Themselves into Profit Taker Runs....

I used this to help my Friends get Gyromag Systems they needed for Vox Solaris....

On 2021-03-12 at 11:09 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The speed capture, despite being very easy, is at least what a proper challenge looks like.  It requires a degree of skill and game knowledge to pull off and despite there being cheese loadouts for it, can be completed in the most basic of gear.

I actually managed to pull this off Whilest Simultaneously Spawning a Larving Once.... Just to see if I could do it... 😎 !!!

On 2021-03-12 at 11:09 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

They should have a community workshop and let everyone come together to make more engaging, fun, and most of all accessible challenges.

It's been a while since we've had a proper Workshop.... I don't think we've ever had one for fixing Issues.... Apparently DE doesn't want to hear Our Ideas for those 🤔 !!!

On 2021-03-14 at 8:57 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

 

As for what you said, I do agree that DE should involve use more like Asking what challenges we want, something in the form like the warframe competition. For example I like operators, I would like to see them involved more in NW (and for them to have operator only missions) since we use them a lot like the "do a spy mission with operators" most ppl will dislike it but idc coz it`s what I like and as long as it`s still in the game I'm good.

For whatever reason... After my Arcane Grind I starting using and liking Operators less and less to the point I just never used Transference for a whole week at one point... 

This was around the time I made my commitment to Booben 🤔 !!!

 

[Zeddypanda]

6 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

This is even worse than the Kill The Profit Taker Act....

This one sounds like me.... I mumble and then do it immediately.... You know those people who log in during Server Reset and knockout all these Challenges in the first 3 Hours.... Yep.. that's me... And I hate every moment of it 😤 !!!

A live one! Please, enlighten me! What makes killing profit taker/eidelon less of a pain than doing 10 minutes of Eris survival? You even play Vauban, so this challenge is pretty much free for us.

[Rantear]

I always felt like Nightwave is much more helpfull to the newbies: free slots, survivability auras (or just generaly auras, cuz not enough mod capacity), specific list of tasks that can keep you engaged with the game, something else that i cannot remember now... it surely kept me in the game, for some reason...

Steel path tasks just look completely out of place, even Hydrolysts and Profit-taker are not so demanding, in terms of builds\preparation time.
Not to mention that it was initialy advertised as a completely optional game mode for masochists, to me it's the same as if they've added Conclave tasks into the Nightwave...
 

27 минут назад, Zeddypanda сказал:

What makes killing profit taker/eidelon less of a pain than doing 10 minutes of Eris survival? You even play Vauban, so this challenge is pretty much free for us.

Well, you gotta reach Eris first, through several Grineer\Corpus planets, although i don't know if dailies allow you to just get there, but dailies are just that- dailies, they're gone one you've done them.

You could try to get a taxi from a recruitment chat, but then good luck killing anything there, 1000 enemies is quite the big number, even when I, a real noob when it comes to SP, is in a mission, other more poorly-equipped players get only like 30-70 kills collectively out of 500, can't imagine how hard it would be with someone who basically lives in SP.

Another really frustrating thing is that pretty much everything one shots you there, Toxic Ancients with aimbot, or farting ospreys do not care about your puny shield gating, also i'm pretty sure that alot of infested can deal toxic damage, not sure tho, but chargers did one shot me several times....

Also, Acolytes.

[Zeddypanda]

18 minutes ago, Rantear said:

Well, you gotta reach Eris first, through several Grineer\Corpus planets, although i don't know if dailies allow you to just get there

[...]

You could try to get a taxi from a recruitment chat, but then good luck killing anything there, 1000 enemies is quite the big number.. .

I suspected these kinds of reasons. They boil down to "Looks daunting, didn't try". Which I don't blame! E Prime is a really harsh introduction to steel path.

I'm not familiar with old steel path, but I know it's changed to be more convenient. Simply wait for a steel path incursion you can manage, during a week there's bound to be one at or adjacent to an infested survival. Doing this incursion will permanently unlock that and every neighbouring node.

Steel path infested are very easy to kill. If you're equipped to deal with regular Eris, steel path Eris is almost not harder at all apart from Acolytes.

Furthermore, steel path scales enemy spawns according to a full party, no matter how many players are in your party. Steel path kills go by faster than on normal star chart because of this.

As for Acolytes, yeah. They suck. If you have a stealth frame like Ivara you can kill them for free. On infested survival, my preferred approach is Atlas and just punching them dead. Unlike Stalker, Acolytes are not immune to abilities or anything.

[Rantear]

9 минут назад, Zeddypanda сказал:

I suspected these kinds of reasons. They boil down to "Looks daunting, didn't try". Which I don't blame! E Prime is a really harsh introduction to steel path.

You just ignored the most important parts......

And stop with the condenscending attitude, i completed the SP star chart long time ago......

Simple "You can do it!" doesn't work on Steel Path, it's a gear check, and quite the hard one.

[Zeddypanda]

10 minutes ago, Rantear said:

Simple "You can do it!" doesn't work on Steel Path, it's a gear check, and quite the hard one.

For the all of steel path? For sure not. Disruption demos are really harsh, which is why incursions only make you do a single one. I consistently bring random stuff I'm just ranking for infested, though. I wouldn't be surprised if you could bring Stug to Eris survival.

For the challenge itself, I honestly think the biggest barriers are:

• You actually have to complete all of Star Chart first, including Ropalolyst (which means having a decent amp/getting carried)
• You just haven't given it a real attempt.

By the time you get to steel path, you've done most of the quests, which means you have at the very least an Excalibur Umbra with a potato in him, and by extension exalted blade. That's all the gear you need to deal with steel path and then some. I did steel path incursion Captain Vor with Excalibur for instance. My random gear at the time barely tickled anything, but for the man himself I only had to bust out exalted blade and give him a few whacks to take him down. And that's a grineer! Grineer have stupid amounts of armor!

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

A live one! Please, enlighten me! What makes killing profit taker/eidelon less of a pain than doing 10 minutes of Eris survival? You even play Vauban, so this challenge is pretty much free for us.

It's not the Challenge itself that's the only issue... It's unlocking Steel Path in the first place.... Hence why I chose Profit Taker as an example because it has the same problem.... 

 

[Zeddypanda]

45 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

It's not the Challenge itself that's the only issue... It's unlocking Steel Path in the first place.... Hence why I chose Profit Taker as an example because it has the same problem.... 

 

On this I agree. At least star chart isn't time gated, so it's just a matter of rolling your sleeves up and doing it.

The way you unlock steel path also unlocks arbitrations, as I'm sure you know, and there are a few pretty good snacks to be obtained from Arby's, so it's a good goal to clear regardless.