No Condition Overload for guns please

[Pityuu2]

In a recent devstream, it was suggested that primary and secondary weapons would receive "new" mods to make them more powerful.

This got me a bit worried, as the introduction of the inarguably powerful Blood Rush + Weeping Wounds + Condition Overload + Berserker cards led to a dominant build, that is: put these four on almost any melee by default. I harshly dislike the "by default" aspect: there is little room to create meaningfully different builds and playstyles when you "have to" use so many mods by default to make your melee relevant.

Rifles already have their set of "by default" mods (Serration +  Split Chamber, to say the least) so adding more such "powerful" mods would hurt the already shallow build variety, and how many meaningful choices the player gets to make when modding.

Needless to say, same goes for Shotguns and Secondaries.

 

This one is a bit of a stretch, but can't we just remove "+% DAMAGE" cards altogether, maybe even Condition Overload, and add their bonuses to all respective weapons, you know, by default? (This would require a readjustment of most other mods too, but with melee its already pretty bad: 4-6 mods are "by default", with a riven and Primed Reach, and the only meaningful choice you get to make is the Stance card and how to achieve the optimal elementals: with 90% dmg or 60%dmg+60%status cards).

[NekroArts]

My best guest is that they're going to introduce situational-substitutional mods like the elemental/status chance mods.

[(NSW)Mbek]

CO for guns is inevitable at this point since it already exist with Cedo, they just need to export the gimmick in mod form for other weapons.

[Miser_able]

personally, id like to see a rifle mod that increased headshot damage for every consecutive headshot. say like, +25% headshot damage per headshot up to 300% and every miss/nonheadshot decays it by 1 stack, like with sniper rifle combos.

[Bakaguya-sama]

CO is fine as long as it has some proper tradeoff. Like -% 90 Crit Damage. Straight up negate organ Shatter. Have it behave like a Corrupted Mod. 

The problem with CO and melee right now is that its used in conjunction with crit builds for big damage. You see any status only weapon being OP? No. Or even crit only weapons? Not really. Its all about the hybrid build. Weapons like Gram Prime and Kronen prime offer the best of both which is why they are OP.  

A Condition Overload equivalent would be an amazing on Primaries. It would allow for many status weapons to scale better (particularly many status shotguns that were nerfed to oblivion after the 100% status change). As long as it has -% crit damage on it. This would prevent it from being mandatory on every build like OP fear. The ideal situation is: If you are building for crit, you should not run Condition Overload. 

[Pityuu2]

17 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

CO is fine as long as it has some proper tradeoff. Like -% 90 Crit Damage. Straight up negate organ Shatter. Have it behave like a Corrupted Mod. 

The problem with CO and melee right now is that its used in conjunction with crit builds for big damage. You see any status only weapon being OP? No. Or even crit only weapons? Not really. Its all about the hybrid build. Weapons like Gram Prime and Kronen prime offer the best of both which is why they are OP.  

A Condition Overload equivalent would be an amazing on Primaries. It would allow for many status weapons to scale better (particularly many status shotguns that were nerfed to oblivion after the 100% status change). As long as it has -% crit damage on it. This would prevent it from being mandatory on every build like OP fear. The ideal situation is: If you are building for crit, you should not run Condition Overload. 

That is an excellent suggestion. 

My concern is DE would create more "must equip" "by default" mods to bring up guns to the power level of melee, further reducing no modding variety. However, having powerful mods with significant downsides would preserve the player's liberty to make the choice whether or not it is worth to use said mods.

I also like your Corrupted Mod analogy: CO currently is like an Overextended but without negative Strength, or a Blind Range without negative Efficiency.

[Pityuu2]

20 hours ago, (NSW)Mbek said:

CO for guns is inevitable at this point since it already exist with Cedo, they just need to export the gimmick in mod form for other weapons.

A number of guns have their own, unique gimmicks. I would like Cedo's gimmick to stay unique to it as it is.

[Vahenir]

I definitely hope there wont be a combo system with more multiplicative combo mods ala blood rush added to guns. Mostly since the whole combo system is just something i find annoying in general. But if you want a good melee weapon you have to use it outside of a few heavy attack weapons. I hope this is one thing that will not be ported over to guns.

[Steel_Rook]

One would hope DE have learned their lesson regarding stacking multipliers. Combo systems, stacked critical damage multipliers, stacked multipliers of any kind - all these do is massively cascade potential damage. This causes excessive power creep and pushes enemy stats into absolutely absurd levels. There's a reason old Condition Overload got changed to an additive damage bonus in the same category as Pressure Point, after all. I'm of the opinion that the same needs to happen with critical hits, as well. Too much multiplicative garbage, too much reliance on "red crits," too much reliance on absurd numbers which require 99% damage resistance on enemies.

If you want my honest, unapologetic opinion, I feel that all damage buffs from all sources need to become additive with each other. Base damage, elemental damage, critical damage, damage from ability buffs - make it all additive. That alone would take a massive chunk out of the game's existing power creep while "future-proofing" builds against potentially powerful new mods. Would also reduce the massive over-reliance on critical hits for damage, as well. And sure - it would come in the form of an across-the-board massive nerf to everything. Which is why it ought to ship with another enemy health/armour/shield scaling redesign. Drop player damage, drop enemy resistance, reduce the importance of damage types and you'll have a stable system that's far less prone to massively overpowered edge cases.

It's not going to happen, though. I don't think DE have the stomach for making the kind of unpopular systemic changes the game actually needs any more.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

The meta guns are fine. The problem is many other guns don't compete, this is largely because if it doesn't aoe its doa. No matter how good your dps, if it's only on one target is nothing. For this reason I am suggesting a ricochet mod where each projectile has a 55% chance to ricochet up to 5-7 times, head shots have 100% chance and 33% chance to be headshots. Almost no semi auto pistol or rifle can keep up with weapons like kuva nukor around. But ricochet that basically does the same thing but with single fire projectiles would soften their disadvantages. Because what a weapon like a well built plinx can do to one target,  kn can do to a whole squad with same ttk.

[syl42]

il y a 24 minutes, (PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx a dit :

The meta guns are fine. The problem is many other guns don't compete, this is largely because if it doesn't aoe its doa. No matter how good your dps, if it's only on one target is nothing. For this reason I am suggesting a ricochet mod where each projectile has a 55% chance to ricochet up to 5-7 times, head shots have 100% chance and 33% chance to be headshots. Almost no semi auto pistol or rifle can keep up with weapons like kuva nukor around. But ricochet that basically does the same thing but with single fire projectiles would soften their disadvantages. Because what a weapon like a well built plinx can do to one target,  kn can do to a whole squad with same ttk.

Again, they could take a look at Path of Exile and how they design their skills.

Arc: Chains +(4-7) Times, 15% more Damage for each remaining Chain

This doesn't make the skill ineffective against single target, and it can still clear packs.

DE could also relies a bit on Punchthrough to make it useful with that stat, the more punchthrough you have, the more enemies you can chain.