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Kuva weapon chance


Godmode_Ash
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I think instead of actually being able to chose the weapon, instead using their normal counterparts when slaying a Larvaling should give increased chance for that weapon to appear with the Lich. This would serve as incentive for players to acquire their normal counterparts first before going Lich hunting.

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2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I think instead of actually being able to chose the weapon, instead using their normal counterparts when slaying a Larvaling should give increased chance for that weapon to appear with the Lich. This would serve as incentive for players to acquire their normal counterparts first before going Lich hunting.

what about the weapons that do not have a varient like the bramma and the ayanga

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2 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

a method so we can spawn a specific weapon we want

FWIW, there is a method for that - it's called Trading :P

But sure, something that unlocks after X Liches (I'm thinking like 20+ here), that lets you get a specific weapon, would be nice.

And while we're at it, something that increases the chance for or even guarantees Ephemeras, please thank you.

2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

using their normal counterparts

That doesn't work for weapons that have no regular variant, though.

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15 minutes ago, Godzilla853 said:

what about the weapons that do not have a varient like the bramma and the ayanga

12 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

That doesn't work for weapons that have no regular variant, though.

Those weapons being stronger than most would remain entirely on the RNG. Also, Keep in mind i proposed "Increased Chance" not Guaranteed , meaning that even using the normal variants there would be a chance for another weapon to drop, including the ones without variants.

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20 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Those weapons being stronger than most

Leaving aside how I don't really think, say, Kuva Twin Stubbas are among the more OP weapons
(unlike e.g. Kuva Nukor which would in contrast benefit from your proposal),
I can't say I'm on board with raising that as an argument for making these weapons harder to get,
rather than for balancing them all out (i.e. buff the lesser-used ones) so they're all somewhat equally desirable.

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3 hours ago, Godzilla853 said:

what about the weapons that do not have a varient like the bramma and the ayanga

Kill Larvling with any bow for Bramma, kill with any Heavy Weapon for Ayanga?

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6 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Running 30-40 Cassini everyday is getting old.

Well yeah, but if you want to persude the devs that they might want to consider shortening the Larvling hunt maybe point out that...

... long Larvling hunts are not good for public matchmaking, especially in Lich Territories...

It's like this:

  • only the player who downs the Larvling gets to make a Kuva Lich from it.
  • in public matchmaking any player in the Squad could deal the damage that downs the Larvling, so if want to make a Kuva Lich, you farm the Larvling in solo 
  • the more hours a player spends spends passing up weapons they don't want/need, the longer they are not in the public matchmaking pool 

For players trying to farm Murmurs in pub and having difficulty getting full squads, it would be nice if their potential squadmates weren't tied up in solo mode running Cassini or similar over and over and over and over again.

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  • 1 month later...

Swazdo-Lah fellow Tennos! <3

For a wile now the biggest problems Kuva Liches have presented is there is too much RNG involved, you have RNG for the weapon the Larvaling will carry when you down in the mission then there is the RNG of the percentage of elemental bonus you will get from that Lich. That being said...

As it currently stands, players enter a mission they know the Larvaling will spawn, play through the map until it appears, down it then check over its head what weapon is coming, knowing already the element based on their frame of choice but still not knowing the percentage, if the weapon appeals them they finish the Larvaling, if not they just leave the mission without finishing it and try again.

What if instead of getting the Weapons, Liches dropped a Kuva Core with the associated Element infused into them, players could then access their Arsenal to infuse this Core into a Grineer weapon of their choice, the Weapon then would change into a Kuva weapon with altered status and the element the Core had with its respective bonus?
This would facilitate players obtaining the Kuva weapon combination of their choice and open way for more weapons to be added to the Kuva variant list.
The only downside of this is players would have to craft a replica of the weapon they wish to infuse the Cores into for each elemental variant they want tho with how cheap blueprints are and how abundant most of the resources are, im sure this wouldnt be a problem.

The Valence Fusion would work as is, adding the bonus to the already infused weapon`s element and/or changing the element on that weapon, difference is it wouldnt touch the weapon`s level so there would be no risk of you accidentally doing the wrong fusion and end up with a rank 0 no Forma variant.

But what about the Kuva Bramma, Kuva Chakkhur, Kuva Shildeg and Kuva Ayanga? Well, they would have to get a normal non-Kuva variant that would have a chance of dropping from the Liches them self when vanquished along with the Kuva Core, players would then be able to infuse the core of their choice on to them or as long as they are untouched, players would be able to trade them just like Syndicate and Baro weapons.

Same idea could be applied to the future QueenPin weapons.

What are fellow Tennos opinions on this?

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Posted (edited)

Foreword: I was paying some attention to the most recent devstream and it did mention incoming Quality of Life fixes for Liches. If they do cover the below then: great. If they do not I would strongly recommend considering this.

DE, this last Sunday I spawned and killed two Kuva Liches. On attempting to create a third with the twin stubbas I spent three hours going through Cassini, Saturn likely under 2 minutes most of the time and I never got it before going to sleep. Assuming the % chance for every kuva weapon is equal knowing there are 16 kuva weapons the chance of getting it at any point should've been 6.25%. Three hours. I don't ever want to experience that again. I have my criticism of Liches and the slow progress you make there but frankly it's the Kuva Larvlings that need help. With 3 new kuva weapons being added, hek, grattler, and I forgot the last one, I don't want to know my chances of getting the weapon I want. But I do, it's ~5.26% rounded down and rounding it down further to an even 5% I cannot think of a single valid reason that any player should be running a single mission twenty times to BEGIN content whatever they think of the content itself. The idea alone of continuing to accept this design at 1/19 odds makes me want to play any other game.

It should be telling to you DE that I have reached the level of frustration where I don't care if anybody agrees with me or not. No game should be making any player reach that level of frustration. There should be a way to guarantee the weapon you want. I don't care if it's spending kuva for this, please go ahead we get 100 kuva from downing the Larvlings as it is. I don't care if it's collecting some new item to reach a certain threshold for the content like the Cryptographic ALU's or Omega Isotopes, please go ahead. I don't care if a new item is available from invasions, please go ahead. I don't care (I'd actually PREFER) that completion of kuva siphons/floods contributed towards some method of guaranteeing your desired kuva weapon. It would breath some life into them.

Once again this is all to BEGIN a Kuva Lich hunt, if you want to make Kuva Liches a long painful drawn out process: fine. But starting it should not be more painful than the content itself. This is not an outlier, it can happen at any time to any person and it should not be able to happen at all.

I don't want to see any of the criticisms above repeated for Sisters of Parvos.

Edited by Diedact
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This is a very fair point. With the expansion of kuva weapons it's often the larvaling stage of Lich hunting that actually takes the longest. 

Since Warframes act as progenitors for the weapon elemental bonus damage, it would be nice if there was something to act as a progenitor for the weapon itself.

Or any other system, like spending 10k kuva to choose the weapon, or etc...

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1 hour ago, Diedact said:

But I do, it's ~5.26% rounded down and rounding it down further to an even 5% I cannot think of a single valid reason that any player should be running a single mission twenty times to BEGIN content whatever they think of the content itself. The idea alone of continuing to accept this design at 1/19 odds makes me want to play any other game.

So it's like grind for Empowered Blades (spoiler because it's little offtopic):
 

Spoiler

 

- get most ingredients: not hard but you still have to scan a lot

- go to Earth when it's day (each period lasts for 4 hour)

- find super rare flower - if you find 1 or 2 you are lucky

- don't use Oxylus because it won't use "2x widget"

- build apothics (that's easy)

- get nekros

- use max 3 apothics per mission

- get Empowered Blade after many desecrated bodies

...

- realize you wasted time on things that isn't working very good

 

I bet there would be people that will tell you that's FINE.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

This is a very fair point. With the expansion of kuva weapons it's often the larvaling stage of Lich hunting that actually takes the longest. 

Since Warframes act as progenitors for the weapon elemental bonus damage, it would be nice if there was something to act as a progenitor for the weapon itself.

Or any other system, like spending 10k kuva to choose the weapon, or etc...

I made a suggestion in another topic of mine, where the planet the Larvling spawns in should determine the weapons that spawn from it. It doesn't have to be the exact same few every time since it could possibly rotate every week or so, but it should at least be varied from there. Then all that would have to be added to accompany it would be some sort of UI feature which shows what Kuva Weapons are on a specific node. This would greatly reduce the grind since instead of having to search through like 16 (19 after the update) weapons, you'd only have to rotate around 5-6 in each planet at best.

Plus if DE does this, they could have a rotation in which the new weapons they want to add, are put onto a specific planet so acquisition of them is easier and more focused (if they so choose to).

Edited by Scruffel
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We could make it that the larvling spawns the weapon based on what weapon the progenitor used to down them. For example, if the progenitor downs the larvling with a Hind the Lich candidate will have Kuva Hind. The kuva weapon collection is getting larger and larger it will become impossible to get a Lich with a weapon you wanted.

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I've done around 30 liches or so at this point and hunting larvalings is certainly the most annoying part of the process. Changing this system would be very much appreciated.

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

We could make it that the larvling spawns the weapon based on what weapon the progenitor used to down them. For example, if the progenitor downs the larvling with a Hind the Lich candidate will have Kuva Hind. The kuva weapon collection is getting larger and larger it will become impossible to get a Lich with a weapon you wanted.

This isn't a bad idea. I'd like to see a higher % for larvalings rolling with an equipped weapon type rather than forcing the lich to spawn with a kuva variant, however. 

You using a bow when you take down the larvaling? 10% chance for Kuva Bramma instead of 5%. 

Using a sidearm pistol? Higher chance for Seer. A sidearm beam weapon? Higher chance for Nukor. 

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In regards to opening post, I appreciate the thought of stripping away an entire layer of RNG, obviously the kuva larvlings as they currently function it's completely unnecessary. What I think your thought ignores is if the Kuva Lich gives a core instead of a weapon what weapon does the Lich have to fight with at all? If the Kuva Lich still retains kuva weapons it feels like kind of a rip-off to not get them. You did mention the kuva weapons with no regular variant possibly dropping from them and arguably they could wield those but that cuts out of most of their arsenal.

Others in this discussion post have had some great ideas too. I was a particular fan of Scruffels if for no other reason than I could see DE actually doing it with their RNG obsession.

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Agreed. The pain of getting a weapon you want is so annoying and I'm glad we can at least see the weapon now before getting it but does add an unnecessary pain point to the lich system. 

I have four thoughts on it (probably not original)

1. Specific planets or tile sets have specific weapons.

2. Specific planets or tiles have weapon types (primary, secondary, melee, archgun).

3. Frame also controls Weapon type in addition to element.

4. Requiem Mod in your first slot controls for weapon type. 

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I agree, this quickly becomes the biggest annoyance when doing liches.

What could be done is give some purpose to Kuva Fortress' missions beyond just farming Harrow Chassis and then ignoring everything except Survival. Maybe you'd do a whole tour of the place!

  • Rescue an agent from kuva fortress and they'll give you the scoop on the next kuva larving project. You'll get to know which weapon is being developed for them, as well as the elemental strength.
  • Not satisfied with the weapon? After obtaining this information, you can get three perfect hacks in kuva fortress' spy where you'll get a blueprint for a kuva fortress cipher.
  • Kuva fortress cipher is crafted in your foundry and can take however long DE feels like. 1 minute. 1 hour. 1 day. 3 days. I'd be fine whichever it is. 3 days passively waiting is better than mindlessly repeating capture for an hour. When you craft the cipher, you get to pick the weapon the cipher should be for.
  • Increase the elemental strength by running kuva fortress defense. Strength increases by 1.5% per wave you stay (so stay for 20 waves to max the weapon).
  • To finalize the lich, cipher must be taken to kuva fortress' mobile defense, where Lotus/Ordis will hack into the system and override the upcoming weapon. Upon completion, weapon is changed and strength is set to 20 + 1.5 x (waves of defense last time you did kuva defense).
  • Now you can go ahead and run cassini or whatever.
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5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

We could make it that the larvling spawns the weapon based on what weapon the progenitor used to down them. For example, if the progenitor downs the larvling with a Hind the Lich candidate will have Kuva Hind. The kuva weapon collection is getting larger and larger it will become impossible to get a Lich with a weapon you wanted.

great idea !!  

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1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

great idea !!  

Third-ed! I remember quite some time ago mentioning about basing it off of the type of weapon used to down them in the past as well.

  • You could even think of it from the Larvling's perspective; If they catch a glimpse of what weapon they nearly died to, they could be thinking of that weapon type while planning to exact their revenge against the progenitor. An eye for an eye, so to speak. Just a way to add some context behind the resulting weapon.

 

Hope it helps :)

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Bad idea. what weapon would you use to get a Kuva Chakkhur or Ayanga?

Just alter the planetary spawn rates, or drops, so that running Mercury (extend it to all Grineer planets) would give you more chance of getting a Kohm or Kraken, running Sedna gives you more chance for the Brama and Nukor.

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Posted (edited)

Completely agreed. The Kuva Larvling spawning process is easily the worst, most frustrating, most offputting aspect of the entire Lich system. Whatever your complaints with the rest of it might be, at least you get to play the game while interacting with it. Kuva Larvlings, by contrast, is one step above data entry. Load up Cassini, kill target, spawn Larvling, abandon, repeat for 45 minutes... If you're lucky. That feels closer to QA than playing a game. While I appreciate being able to see what weapon a Larvling has before knifing it, that doesn't help get me the weapon I actually need.

 

13 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

We could make it that the larvling spawns the weapon based on what weapon the progenitor used to down them. For example, if the progenitor downs the larvling with a Hind the Lich candidate will have Kuva Hind. The kuva weapon collection is getting larger and larger it will become impossible to get a Lich with a weapon you wanted.

This is not a bad idea, though it doesn't account for Kuva weapons with no vanilla counterpart like the Ayanga and the Chakkhurr. It sounds like the Corpus Lich system will have a whole host of fashionable purse weapons with no vanilla counterparts, as well. As much as I like the core idea, I think we need something more robust.

 

8 hours ago, yarl5000 said:

Agreed. The pain of getting a weapon you want is so annoying and I'm glad we can at least see the weapon now before getting it but does add an unnecessary pain point to the lich system. 

I have four thoughts on it (probably not original)

  1. Specific planets or tile sets have specific weapons.
  2. Specific planets or tiles have weapon types (primary, secondary, melee, archgun).
  3. Frame also controls Weapon type in addition to element.
  4. Requiem Mod in your first slot controls for weapon type. 

That's actually not a bad idea, either. It's still random, but narrows down the randomness quite a bit. Assuming DE don't add dozens upon dozens of weapons from each category, it might be "close enough." I'm particularly fond of the "different planets spawn different weapons" idea. Not only does that give us more control, it also gives us reason to run anything other than Cassini. It does, however, still require us to grind a mission over and over again, and there may not always be an easy Capture.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that DE should go with the "Lich Lure" that Scott McGregor talked about in 2019. Let us build an item which "lures" a Lich out with the specific weapon we want. Now, Scott was thinking of requiring us to scrap one Kuva weapon for it - basically sacrifice one random Lich to get a specific one. That was before they added the Larvling weapon display.

Personally, I say let us just build that Lure with just standard resources. You could make it a single-use blueprint gained from the Kuva Fortress in some fashion - mission reward, Cache, etc. That gives it a resource cost while removing the RNG entirely.

Edited by Steel_Rook
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11 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

what weapon would you use to get a Kuva Chakkhur or Ayanga?

 

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

This is not a bad idea, though it doesn't account for Kuva weapons with no vanilla counterpart like the Ayanga and the Chakkhurr.

Regarding specific Kuva Lich / Sisters of Parvos weaponry, that's part of why I was thinking the "weapon progenitor" method could not rely solely on a specific weapon, but the type of weapon used. So in this case to get a Chakkhurr, you could use any Semi-auto rifle, or after getting the Archgun launcher, any Archgun could be used against the Kuva Larvling for the Ayanga or Grattler (Or a Necramech when those are truly in all missions?).

  • This would not guarantee what weapon your target has, but it could make it draw from the pool of those types of Kuva / Granum weapons.
     
    • I'm not sure if it'd be a factor to consider, but it does give players another reason to try more weapon types and see what kinds of things they enjoy using or not; Then the Kuva / Granum weapons could be right up their alley, since they'd work not too differently.

 

There might be a way to combine this ^ with what planet you're looking for a Lich on as well, but it may not be that easy of a change to implement (At least not right away).

  • In the event even more Kuva / Granum weapons are brought into the fold after the next update, then maybe you could try using a specific weapon type on a specific planet's Lich (Be it Grineer or Corpus territory, respectively) to further narrow down the weapon pool you'll be drawing from.
     
    • With the amount of weapons we have for the time being, using the Weapon Progenitor method or Planet method might be all that's needed, but if (As an example) we someday have 25 Kuva Weapons and 16+ Granum Weapons, then we'll need a bit more filtering on the weapon to be spawned.
       
  • It would just give the player a bit more control in what weapon they're going for, rather than having a Lich draw from all weapons at a time. You might still need to run the mission a few times, but at least you'll know you're on the right track instead of pulling a completely random weapon no matter how you take down the target.

 

As far as spawning a Lich with the Lure, I think that would also give the Kuva Fortress a lot more reason to be explored and run over time; You could gather multiple blueprints and save them for later use as well. Although I'm not sure how to specify a particular Kuva weapon with it, or (Hypothetically speaking) how it might work with Sisters of Parvos.

 

It would be great if methods like these were implemented in the Kuva Larvling or pre-Sister stage, but it would surely take some work :)

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

As far as spawning a Lich with the Lure, I think that would also give the Kuva Fortress a lot more reason to be explored and run over time; You could gather multiple blueprints and save them for later use as well. Although I'm not sure how to specify a particular Kuva weapon with it, or (Hypothetically speaking) how it might work with Sisters of Parvos.

Either via some kind of unique UI element when crafting the Lure, or simply via a selection box when executing the Larvling. I suspect the "unique UI element" is why DE ended up scrapping the Lure idea in favour of what we have now. I'm still in favour of it, though, because I really don't want to have to depend on RNG. Less RNG is obviously better, but it's still repeating the same mission just for the sake of getting extra rolls.

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