Kuva weapon chance

[OwlOfJune]

There is a mega-thread for this in Feedback.

 

 

Btw, chance for finding specific weapon you want.

[Trvldl]

7 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

That being said, "making things easier, WITHOUT SPENDING PLAT"

You'd have an argument if there was a reliable way in game to list orders for specific guns and ephemeras without also wasting hours of time and a lot of effort. You never know how fast you can sell this kuva gun without knowing current demand, maybe you'd rather skip it or not convert lich; neither would you know how long you'll need to spam chat if you need that specific tenet weapon. This doesn't help supply saturation. Add to that the need to also finish off the traded adversary for a buyer, and a lot of potential buyers would rather do something else in another game.
It would be very helpful to see how much income adversary guns generate for DE over time, otherwise it's hard to believe that they amount to much compared to rivens and primes. What they certainly create, however, is severe burnout for players farming them.

I've proposed a reroll mechanic some time ago, reroll guns by damaging the precursor when they kneel. Add some restrictions on damage sources and a small cooldown of 2 seconds before enxt roll, and it's working. DE should at least try it out and then adjust as they see fit.
 

[Godmode_Ash]

I see few people disagree and think this is a non-issue.

In a few updates DE will probably add even more kuva/tenet weapons, making this situation even worse and even more people will  complain. Might be better to solve this sooner.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No it isnt something that will happen passively. If it was it would be an active part of the lich/sister system and not placed on a 100% pointless node with 100% pointless precursor activities within the mission. It is an extremely bad way of adding "replay value". And if people need to start trading to get what they want the system fails at bringing the replay value and having us "log in and play often" since farming plat is several times faster.

Just the fact that we need to do lowbie missions in order to get some of the best items in game is in itself extremely silly. It's as if Blizzard would send you to beat up Hogger time and time again in order to have a chance to get Sulfuron to drop from Ragnaros.

And that shows the massive flaw of the system when the system that is designed is slower than an alternate system when it comes to obtained the items designed as rewards for the system that is flawed.

Do you honestly enjoy sitting there killing low level mobs over and over to unlock a possible weapon so you can start hunting the "high level" mobs the system is designed around?

Well, I actually play at a normal pace, so lichs never seemed that bad (except for the mumurs, which is fixed) because I'm not the kind of person to rabidly spam fresh content to the point of frustration simply because I'm not acquiring it fast enough. 

I didn't start lichs until 4-5 months after release. It took me like 4 days to get 2 weapons I wanted plus putting 4 forma in both of them, and that was months ago and I haven't touched a lich sense. My puny 23 or 34% weapons still do great in steel path too.

Even if I wanted every lich weapon since they released, I had enough time to get them all if i wanted. Spamming Cassini takes and hour or 2 if you're obsessed but that's something players force on themselves.

[Godmode_Ash]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Spamming Cassini takes and hour or 2 if you're obsessed but that's something players force on themselves.

Well, it's not player forcing themselves. We have no other choice. Kuva weapon rolling is 1/19 currently.

I consider making players to trade due to the poor RNG is the actual forceful way.

[Trvldl]

There should either be an easy way to list and view converts for sale or reroll/blacklist mechanic introduced. I think reroll is more in line with the game and easier to implement.

Let the player with precursor reroll the weapon by damaging kneeling precursor, with some limitations on damage sources and small cooldowns so it doesn't change every half a second.

[SneakyErvin]

32 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Well, I actually play at a normal pace, so lichs never seemed that bad (except for the mumurs, which is fixed) because I'm not the kind of person to rabidly spam fresh content to the point of frustration simply because I'm not acquiring it fast enough. 

I didn't start lichs until 4-5 months after release. It took me like 4 days to get 2 weapons I wanted plus putting 4 forma in both of them, and that was months ago and I haven't touched a lich sense. My puny 23 or 34% weapons still do great in steel path too.

Even if I wanted every lich weapon since they released, I had enough time to get them all if i wanted. Spamming Cassini takes and hour or 2 if you're obsessed but that's something players force on themselves.

I dont rabidly spam fresh content either, that doesnt change how much time the precursor takes to get. 2 hours spread over 6 months or 2 hours spread over a single session is the same wasted time in the same uninteresting content in the end. It doesnt matter if you settle with lower percent weapons, it doesnt make the system any better. We want to play with the liches and sisters, not sit and dredge through the same old content.

Tell me there isnt something severely wrong with the design when players spend more time getting the precursor than actually doing the lich/sister content. And you spend even less time now versus the lich/sister than you did prior to the SoP update and you spend even more time in trivial pointless lowbie content now to even be able to start the actual lich/sister content.

My real question is why they shortened the lich/sister encounters instead of making that part the focus, with the precursor as only a short step? Instead they shortened the lich/sister encounters severely and increased the precursor step. I'm not interested in the pre-step, I wanna fight liches and sisters. I do enough of that other content for other parts of the game.

[Rey153]

Il y a 19 heures, ZeroX4 a dit :

You dont know what real pain is
I wasted 4 hours for getting kuva grattler

And approx 9 hours for last 2 tenet weapons

I just hope when/if we get option get option too choose kuva/tenet weapons it wont be too little too late

Only for it to get nerfed

 

My god.... 

[ZeroX4]

1 minute ago, Rey153 said:

Only for it to get nerfed

 

My god.... 

For me it can have damage as high as 1

As long as provide experience

MR FODDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rey153]

il y a 2 minutes, ZeroX4 a dit :

For me it can have damage as high as 1

As long as provide experience

MR FODDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair point

 

 

Anyway I think a really simple fix would be to just divide the reward weapons to different nodes

4 weapons per node seems reasonable 

19 for 1 ending in a 5% chance is just atrocious design 

It would kill Cassini being the best mission for kuva larvlings but it'd make it a lot less frustrating

[ZeroX4]

8 minutes ago, Rey153 said:

Fair point

 

 

Anyway I think a really simple fix would be to just divide the reward weapons to different nodes

4 weapons per node seems reasonable 

19 for 1 ending in a 5% chance is just atrocious design 

It would kill Cassini being the best mission for kuva larvlings but it'd make it a lot less frustrating

Holo keys is perfect solution which is executed poorly

We just need to farm some currency/resource
Go to some npc and pay with it to spawn lich/sister with weapon we desire

Simple as that

Just without that BS RNG of getting currency/resource

[Redfeather75]

I was watching PokketNinja streaming last night and she was after one of the 3 new weapons Grattler, Zarr, Hek.

After an hour of larvlings it was depressing and I had to go to sleep. She quit doing it to go do steel path stuff.

[Vaml77]

more kuva weapons added the problem will get bigger and bigger....

Maybe add at in the steel meridian a rotation of weapon like we have with perrin sequence. Something similar with holokeys....droped from lichs.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont rabidly spam fresh content either, that doesnt change how much time the precursor takes to get. 2 hours spread over 6 months or 2 hours spread over a single session is the same wasted time in the same uninteresting content in the end. It doesnt matter if you settle with lower percent weapons, it doesnt make the system any better. We want to play with the liches and sisters, not sit and dredge through the same old content.

Tell me there isnt something severely wrong with the design when players spend more time getting the precursor than actually doing the lich/sister content. And you spend even less time now versus the lich/sister than you did prior to the SoP update and you spend even more time in trivial pointless lowbie content now to even be able to start the actual lich/sister content.

My real question is why they shortened the lich/sister encounters instead of making that part the focus, with the precursor as only a short step? Instead they shortened the lich/sister encounters severely and increased the precursor step. I'm not interested in the pre-step, I wanna fight liches and sisters. I do enough of that other content for other parts of the game.

The precursor isn't that long if you're picking a weapon over the next couple of days. If a person starting spamming cassini as soon as the update dropped....they should have gotten their weapon to pop by now.

There's no scenario where saying 2 hours or 2 days of grind being "too much" can be taken seriously. Sorry, I'll just disagree there. 

Even if the people making these complaints magically never played an MMO and aren't used to online games, it doesn't change that they're in a world where you're gonna end up using your time or money to get something. I can't even fathom thinking 2 days or 2 hours is long at all unless I had a major patience or entitlement issue. You guys got 1 hour knocked off forma...instead of the 6 to 20 hours off that people proposed then.

It won't bother me if they make it easier, but I also would hope to not see any "warframe boring content dead already" posts either....

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It's that way by design, they want to waste as much of your time with their inclusion. Why else would you be required to level the weapons you get so many times after you finally get them for the mastery? Why were they perfectly ok originally with you being blind to what weapons you get when you create a lich ( something they only changed until later on ) Their whole reason is to soak up as much as your time as possible and this is what happens when you're insecure about the content you create. 

 

[DreisterDino]

I completly agree that there needs to be a way to influence the weapon.

Some time ago i suggested the following method:

 

Equip the weapon you want the Kuva/Tenet Version of

Want the Kuva Zarr? Kill the Larvling with the normal Zarr and make it spawn a Kuva Zarr.

This would be an option to force the spawn, if you dont want to force spawn a weapon use weapons that dont have variants.

 

I can see two other ways to force spawn certain weapons, and those are more likely too happen and probably better:

 

Each weapon is connected to a certain node on the Starchart

Pretty simple system and imo the best, just chose the node that has the weapon you want.

Note that a small UI-Rework should come with this: Players should be able to see on the Starchart by hovering which drops they can expect from nodes.

 

Liches/Sisters or Larvlings/Candidates drop keys

While engaging with Liches and Sisters, you farm a certain item like a Parazon Mod or something you equip in your gearwheel which allows to pick the weapon you want.

I think this is 1. probably the way DE prefers because they love to keep the RNG and offer ways to bypass it 2. fine aswell because through playing the game you get the option to bypass RNG at some point, so you get rewarded for playing.

 

Ps: Probably has been said before but regarding that "endgame items should be hard to obtain, the RNG is fine":

Getting all the items would still take a lot of time even if you have the option to dictate the drops. On top of that, if you want to max out the bonus you have to farm the weapons again and again, so it will still take a lot of effort/dedication. And lastly, running a low level capture mission a dozen times and abort/restart as soon as you have seen the larvling doesnt sound like endgame at all, its just unnecessary.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The precursor isn't that long if you're picking a weapon over the next couple of days. If a person starting spamming cassini as soon as the update dropped....they should have gotten their weapon to pop by now.

There's no scenario where saying 2 hours or 2 days of grind being "too much" can be taken seriously. Sorry, I'll just disagree there. 

Even if the people making these complaints magically never played an MMO and aren't used to online games, it doesn't change that they're in a world where you're gonna end up using your time or money to get something. I can't even fathom thinking 2 days or 2 hours is long at all unless I had a major patience or entitlement issue. You guys got 1 hour knocked off forma...instead of the 6 to 20 hours off that people proposed then.

It won't bother me if they make it easier, but I also would hope to not see any "warframe boring content dead already" posts either....

But that is the thing, it doesnt matter if it is "the next couple of days" or in one day, the time spent is the same in even initiating the actual gameplay.

And no one is saying the grind is too long. The problem is with how the grind is presented and where the time sink is put. Like I said, the content for the precursor is 100% uninteresting at the point in the game people are at when they start to take on liches and sisters. The focus at that point should be on the fights with the liches and sisters, no on the trivial trash missions leading up to them.

People that complain do it for the right reasons, because if this was an MMO the approach wouldnt be acceptable since it 100% goes against natural and proper progression. Like with the WoW example I gave, which isnt a thing since it is utterly stupid game flow and gameplay looping to set it up like that. Which is the loop and flow DE have gone with. Again, time itself isnt the problem, the problem is where the weight on the time is placed.

And I'm not saying they should make it easier as a whole, I'm saying they should shift the weight from a precursor chase to actual lich/sister focus. That change could easily be done by us getting to pick weapons with the trade off that murmurs are slower to grind and valence gives a lower percentage per use. DE didnt do that though, they instead reduced murmur grinding to an absolute minimum while keeping the focus on the pointless, trivial, boring and overplayed precursor content. If they changed it, the involvement of RNG would be tied to lucky sequences instead of being lucky with a mob you barely notice is there.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I'm well aware that they need to make money somehow, but systems that frustrate players and push them towards a path of least resistance isn't necessarily making people spend plat, it's frustrating people and leading them to things like leaving missions and restarting until they get the weapon of choice potentially leading to frustration that can make people not want to spend anything on the game AT ALL because they don't feel their time is being appropriately valued. I've spent hundreds on warframe over the years, possibly even over $1,000 at this point, I even purchased a founders pack and still regularly buy plat, so I'm definitely not afraid to spend money on Warframe but this system isn't pushing me towards spending plat at all. There's just so much RNG to liches that I think there needs to be some form of catering towards weapons, and I think a store with rotating weapons is the best way to do this, especially if the currency to buy comes from completing liches (if you need defiled requiems to buy the weapon then you still need to do it to earn them. You'll still need to get the weapon again if you want to max it's percentage. 

 

And the grind is not completely bypassed because you still need to kill the lich yourself. Spending plat to then have to farm what you just bought because the game wont give it to you just feels like a kick in the face that in my opinion is more likely to discourage people from spending money on plat than convince them its worth it. I'd rather a double murmur booster than having to buy something from a player that rng may or may not give me, then I'm giving to DE and am still playing the game for my rewards. 

Yes, they need to make money. But there needs to be a happy medium that justifies peoples purchases and play time. The way I've seen it put most commonly is that you pay to reduce/eliminate time for completion, this is how their free to play vs paid generally works. But, with buying liches you don't eliminate the time for completion. You're removing the time for initiating a lich, not completing it. And having to spend money to initiate something is bad as far as I'm concerned. And you still have to spend time finding a player with the rng lich that you want, which could result in even more time than you're trying to skip.

You're paying to eliminate the RNG of lich spawns, and to guarantee that the next lich you kill has what you want.  What are you on about?

[NecroPed]

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You're paying to eliminate the RNG of lich spawns, and to guarantee that the next lich you kill has what you want.  What are you on about?

How does that equate to "we have a doable grind that can ALSO be COMPLETELY bypassed with trading" it definitely is NOT completely bypassed as you still have to fight the lich. 

What don't you understand from my comment? By buying a lich you're essentially paying to play at this point, in a free to play game, because you still need to do the gameplay for the reward and the only reason you might not be able to get it yourself is because of RNG not providing it to you. This can make people feel like they are expected to spend money rather than have a choice. It starts to feel like a pay to play feature if it doesn't seem feasible without spending money.

I'm confident that a system that makes players feel like spending money is a requirement to get something rather than a choice (I know it's not a requirement but it can feel that way if the 'solution' as you say it, is to spend platinum) is more likely to push people away from spending money. 

[SmokinDice]

On 2021-07-16 at 11:16 PM, Vedallion said:

I just did a solid 45 mins of just farming larvlings, and not to my surprise, I did not even get a new kuva weapon.

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

There needs to be a way to SEE what your lich will look like, and no, I do not mean ephemeras. I grind liches to get cool/ interesting liches, weapons, and ephemeras are not a factor; point being if you get a dud you need to grind upwards of an hour or two just to clear a lich you get nothing from.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

50 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

How does that equate to "we have a doable grind that can ALSO be COMPLETELY bypassed with trading" it definitely is NOT completely bypassed as you still have to fight the lich. 

What don't you understand from my comment? By buying a lich you're essentially paying to play at this point, in a free to play game, because you still need to do the gameplay for the reward and the only reason you might not be able to get it yourself is because of RNG not providing it to you. This can make people feel like they are expected to spend money rather than have a choice. It starts to feel like a pay to play feature if it doesn't seem feasible without spending money.

I'm confident that a system that makes players feel like spending money is a requirement to get something rather than a choice (I know it's not a requirement but it can feel that way if the 'solution' as you say it, is to spend platinum) is more likely to push people away from spending money. 

No... my dude, 

I did not say it bypassed ALL grind, but it bypasses the grind of the RNG of each run, so you don't have to guess which weapon/ephermera you'll get... which it demonstrably DOES.

You'd have to fight the Lich either way... but you could run 20 times before getting the "right" Lich, to begin with.  Trading lets you bypass that.

ALSO, mind you... not all trades rely on plat.. and NOT all plat needs to be BOUGHT.  It is EASILY traded for, as well.  

I don't personally trade for any liches.  I don't feel the need. I'll get to 'em when I get to 'em, because nothing the liches have is keeping me from playing the game....

So no, I don't EVER feel like I have to "pay to play" in this game. Ever.   I'm simply aware, as should you be, that it is AN OPTION.  If you take your time, you WILL get the weapons you want, or duplicates that can power up the weapons you have...  and if you feel you need them FASTER and more CONVENIENTLY than that.... there is trade, as an option.  

At no point does the game, itself, nor DE, set any arbitrary timelines by which you are expected or required to obtain these weapons.  That's on YOU. 

[NecroPed]

1 minute ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

No... my dude, 

I did not say it bypassed ALL grind, but it bypasses the grind of the RNG of each run, so you don't have to guess which weapon/ephermera you'll get... which it demonstrably DOES.

You'd have to fight the Lich either way... but you could run 20 times before getting the "right" Lich, to begin with.  Trading lets you bypass that.

ALSO, mind you... not all trades rely on plat.. and NOT all plat needs to be BOUGHT.  It is EASILY traded for, as well.  

I don't personally trade for any liches.  I don't feel the need. I'll get to 'em when I get to 'em, because nothing the liches have is keeping me from playing the game....

So no, I don't EVER feel like I have to "pay to play" in this game. Ever.   I'm simply aware, as should you be, that it is AN OPTION.  If you take your time, you WILL get the weapons you want, or duplicates that can power up the weapons you have...  and if you feel you need them FASTER and more CONVENIENTLY than that.... there is trade, as an option.  

At no point does the game, itself, nor DE, set any arbitrary timelines by which you are expected or required to obtain these weapons.  That's on YOU. 

You literally said the grind is "completely bypassed"

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

11 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

You literally said the grind is "completely bypassed"

The grind of the RNG of selecting a weapon/ephermera YOU WANT. It's literally a direct response to the "issue" posed in the OP.

[NecroPed]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

The grind of the RNG of selecting a weapon/ephermera YOU WANT. It's literally a direct response to the "issue" posed in the OP.

Then its not completely bypassing the grind. It's bypassing the initiation of the grind.