Void Damage

[Joezone619]

Since i heard in the recent devstream (#152) they may be messing with operators, one thing I can think of that needs to be looked at is void damage. More specifically, the proc of void damage, the magnetic bubble that pulls in all projectiles.

Most, if not, all of the time, this bullet attraction bubble just gets in the way when using operator. Almost, if not all amps that use projectiles, always have their shots completely fail if 1 enemy is effected. This is extremely problematic for using operator in cramped area's and large groups which warframe has both in abundance. I think the damage it does is alright, but the proc effect has needs to be changed. And besides, a unairu ability for void blasts, already does this magnetic bubble.

 

I have a few idea's for what they can change it to, but I would also like to hear suggestions in the comments/replies.

 

-An effect similar to [Pax Seeker] | Where when an enemy with void proc dies, it releases several projectiles that seek out enemies.

-Something similar to having viral and magnetic procs | Where the enemy with void proc would take more damage to their health and shields, But not quite double damage like viral and magnetic do separately to health and shields. (as a side note, this could make operator more effective in high level areas)

-Weapon jamming | Similar to mesa's ability second ability "Shooting Gallery", this would jam the weapons of anyone effected by void procs.

-Lifting enemies | Less recommended, but this would be better IMO then the current magnetic bubble.

-Mini void fissure | A lot less likely, but one of the cooler things they can do, making enemies effected by void procs, turn into corrupted enemies, as this is supposed to be VOID damage, and anything that wonders into the void, or void fissures becomes corrupted.

-Ghost Ally | One of the lesser known aspects of the game, the "ballistica prime" has the ability to spawn ghost versions of enemies it kills (when shot with full charge) that fight along side the player for a few seconds before fading away. This would be an excellent way to implement this into more things. When any enemies with void procs die, they spawn a ghost version ally.

-Energy drop/statue | They can make enemies killed with void procs, leave behind a shell of themselves (similar to titania's "tribute") that allies can run into restoring 10-25 energy. It would certainly encourage more operator usage, and provide an alternative for people who use zenurik only for energizing dash.

-Weapon disarming | Taking a page out of xaku, his 2end ability turns enemies weapons against them, maybe the void proc could do something similar and drop their weapons.

-Health drop/statue | Similar to the energy statue idea, only for health. This would help operators significantly, as one of the biggest problems with operators is staying alive.

 

Suggestions from comments:

  

On 2021-03-06 at 9:09 PM, quxier said:

Void proc would change enemies into different one. For example strong Heavy gunner into weak Butcher. Or even more "wild", void proc could change enemies into any enemies (e.g. Butcher into Ancient Healer). This would cause chaos... and that's what void is.

  

On 2021-03-06 at 11:02 PM, Zeddypanda said:

- Enemies inflicted by void takes increased crit damage, or has increased crit chance. Either one.

- Same void bubble as currently, but instead of redirecting bullets it acts as a second hitbox so you can multishot the same enemy with punch through.

- Bullets passing through void bubble gains punch through.

- Any attack inside of a void bubble deals 5% extra void damage per stack. Eidelons can now be fought by creating a bubble and shooting it with a real gun.

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

5 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Since i heard in the recent devstream (#152) they may be messing with operators, one thing i can think of that needs to be looked at is void damage. More specifically, the proc of void damage, the magnetic bubble that pulls in all projectiles.

Most, all of the time, this bullet attraction bubble just gets in the way when using operator. Almost all (if not all) amps that use projectiles, always have their shots completely fail if 1 enemy is effected. This is extremely problematic for using operator in cramped area's and large groups which warframe has both in abundance. I think the damage it does is alright, but the proc effect it has needs to be changed.

I have a few idea's for what they can change it too, but i would also like to hear suggestions in the comments/replies.

-An effect similar to [Pax Seeker] | Where when an enemy with void proc dies, it releases several projectiles that seek out enemies.

-Something similar to having viral and magnetic procs | Where the enemy with void proc would take more damage to their health and shields, But not quite double damage like viral and magnetic do separately to health and shields.

What "magnetic bubble" are you talking about? Operator AMPs don't cause any "magnetic bubble". Personally have used three amps so far, have never seen any "magnetic bubble".

[Joezone619]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

What "magnetic bubble" are you talking about? Operator AMPs don't cause any "magnetic bubble". Personally have used three amps so far, have never seen any "magnetic bubble".

The magnetic bubble is like a much smaller version of mag's 2end ability, magnetize, where any projectile that hits the bubble will damage enemies inside. However this can be very annoying and tedious as this also includes most if not all amp projectiles as well, like when your trying to attack a large group but all your projectiles get trapped in the bubbles, only killing 1-3 enemies in the front.

Any amp CAN produce this effect, but it is far more apparent with higher status chance amps, as this is the current void damage proc effect, like how radiation makes enemies attack each other.

[Aadi880]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

What "magnetic bubble" are you talking about? Operator AMPs don't cause any "magnetic bubble". Personally have used three amps so far, have never seen any "magnetic bubble".

Status chance...

Chances are, the amps you are using as very low status chance, so you haven't seen it yet.

The magnetic bubble he is talking about is a bubble similar to Mag's Magnetize. It pulls in all projectiles to the center of be bubble. The bubble itself spawns on the part of the body you hit. This is the status effect of Void Damage.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

2 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Status chance...

Chances are, the amps you are using as very low status chance, so you haven't seen it yet.

The magnetic bubble he is talking about is a bubble similar to Mag's Magnetize. It pulls in all projectiles to the center of be bubble. The bubble itself spawns on the part of the body you hit. This is the status effect of Void Damage.

I use Lohrin brace.

[Aadi880]

Just now, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

I use Lohrin brace.

What's your other parts?

You didn't convert your damage type with arcanes did you?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

4 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

What's your other parts?

You didn't convert your damage type with arcanes did you?

Shwaak, Shraksun, the only arcane on it is regen on kill.

[Joezone619]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Shwaak, Shraksun, the only arcane on it is regen on kill.

It is unlikely that you wouldn't have come into contact with the void proc effect. Still, unlikely isn't impossible... maybe you got colossally lucky/unlucky.

[Aadi880]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Shwaak, Shraksun, the only arcane on it is regen on kill.

Wow ok... I'm using the same exact amp as you are xD.

In that case, I don't see why you wouldn't see the mag bubble proc... I see it rather often in the same amp configuration (32% status chance)...

I presume you've already gilded it?

Here's what it says in the wiki, if you want to know more of it:

Sauce: Void Damage | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom

The Status Effect of  Void damage is Bullet Attractor, which creates a small 5 meter field centered on where the target was shot for 3 seconds (e.g. proccing  Void on the target's head creates the Bullet Attractor field centered on their head, proccing on their feet centers the field on their feet). Hit-scan bullets and projectiles that are shot into the field will be redirected towards the target. Projectiles with Punch Through are capable of hitting enemies in the field multiple times and running down their available punch through distance until they despawn.

Afflicted enemies will also have their own projectiles redirected, preventing them from properly shooting the player.

[Steel_Rook]

My sincere hope after the Dev Stream is that DE just let Operators use the game's standard modding system already. With Railjack dumping its AWFUL attempt at Avoinics and going to a more standard Modding setup, there's hope for our Operators yet. If DE would just let us mod our amps (fingers crossed we get to use Rifle/Shotgun mods) like we can our Kitguns, then I suspect most of the issues would go out the window.

[(NSW)Leafar]

i like the pax seeker one and the energy/health one .  the way i would animate the pax status personally is by using the Yellow Lightning from the void rifts , having the lightning Jump from enemy to enemy.

 

and the statue health/energy one to keep it in theme i would make the enemies drop ether Kuva like blood orbs or Oro orbs that could be red or blue and they essentially just act like normal energy orbs .  i would also make enemies drop something similar to the Unairu Wisp which buff party members when they grab them giving them more attack power.

[Joezone619]

8 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

My sincere hope after the Dev Stream is that DE just let Operators use the game's standard modding system already. With Railjack dumping its AWFUL attempt at Avoinics and going to a more standard Modding setup, there's hope for our Operators yet. If DE would just let us mod our amps (fingers crossed we get to use Rifle/Shotgun mods) like we can our Kitguns, then I suspect most of the issues would go out the window.

I agree operators should have a sort of mod system, currently they mostly use arcanes. Changing to a mod system for them would require tweaking a few arcanes depending of what mods they decide to add. But I'd like to see a sort of mod system for operators.

[Steel_Rook]

23 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

I agree operators should have a sort of mod system, currently they mostly use arcanes. Changing to a mod system for them would require tweaking a few arcanes depending of what mods they decide to add. But I'd like to see a sort of mod system for operators.

Oh, certainly. Going to a mod system would likely require a fairly large amount of work, and probably a major rebalance of just about everything to do with Operators. I'm of the opinion that that's needed anyway, though, so I'm all for it :) Being able to mod our Operators and our Amps would be a major step forward for both Operator viability and for general utility. Right now, I have not the foggiest idea what my Operator's armour or energy even are. I can guess, I can do some math on my own with data from the Wiki, but I don't have actual stats. Amps are a LITTLE better, but they still have fairly limited display.

I don't expect DE would just let us use Warframe/Weapon mods, of course. They always seem to introduce a new set of mods to grind for. However, I would expect at least the basics - health, armour, shields(?), ability strength/duration/range/efficiency, etc. for Operators, then maybe damage, multishot, crit chance/damage, status chance, rate of fire, Amp energy/capacity, elemental damage for Amps. Probably also damage, attack speed, range, crit/status for Void Blast on the Operator, as well. It's what they did with Necramechs. Realistically, I'd like to see a set of Amp-like void energy melee weapons, but for whatever reason DE just don't want to do that.

The long and short of it is this - Railjack and Necramechs make for a really good testbed for Operator changes. If those pan out (and we'll see with the next major update), then maybe Operators could get similar changes, as well.

[Joezone619]

Even if operators had like, 4 mod slots, as long as the mods match up, it would greately improve how operators are used. Could be a good chance to add slight operator melee, with adding a mod that changes how void-blast works.

[Nok-Rntha]

I never liked the damage type; I thought it being tied to Operators (which are much worse at combat than Warframes) heavily limited its effectiveness. With guildmates, I half-joked that I could do a better job of doing Void damage if there was a weapon mod that converted as little as 10% of that weapon's damage into Void.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I don't feel the need of modding amps, but rather a damage scaling with ennemy level (like grendel or vauban abilities)

Dmg = base_Dmg × max(1, ceil((enemy lvl - 60)/10)))

This way it won't change eidolon hunts or starchart, but would make it more useful in endurance and steel path, and it would make the nickname "void demon" deserved.

[Steel_Rook]

6 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I don't feel the need of modding amps, but rather a damage scaling with ennemy level (like grendel or vauban abilities)

Dmg = base_Dmg × max(1, ceil((enemy lvl - 60)/10)))

This way it won't change eidolon hunts or starchart, but would make it more useful in endurance and steel path, and it would make the nickname "void demon" deserved.

Any system that ties player stats to enemy level fundamentally undermines the whole point of level-scaling enemies in the first place, I think. If your damage goes up as enemy health goes up, why not cut out the middle man and just pick a stable state relationship? Unless your game is entirely built off level interactions (where level difference matters more than absolute level), I personally see level-scaling stats as a cop-out. DE have painted themselves into a corner and built a scaling system which doesn't really scale in meaningful ways... So why not just circumvent it and make Warframe abilities kinda-sorta work?

The reason I propose modding our Operators and our Amps is because at least that would put them on-par with our Warframes and weapons. It's not an ideal system because... Again - it doesn't scale. But at least it would make it about as broken as everything else. At least it might make Void damage worth using on more than Eidolons. As to Eidolons themselves... Meh. You can always do the Grendel thing and disregard mods. Or you can do the unthinkable and actually rebalance the encounter so it's not so heavily dependent on a few corner case builds.

[MageSkeleton]

From what i'm understanding of what DE first dabued what "void damage" is through the quest, it should be this super powerful damage type that we use AMP's to "focus" that power. Instead, it's one of the weakest forms of damage in the game. Somehow, while controlling a warframe to barely walk and carry you allows your beam to melt Sentients, but popping out of your warframe to shoot a sentient does next to no damage (except resseting it's resistances).

This made me really angry, first you present to me "BIG DAMAGE BOOM BOOM" then after the quest is done you teach me (the hard way) it's just a "utility weapon" i can press 5 to pop out of warframe to make use of........

 

What you can do to make upgrading your FOCUS schools worth the investment is make the "VOID DAMAGE" continually and infinitely do more damage as you shoot the same enemy with your "void damage". You may not like the idea of most any player being able to use their tenno to melt the purple shield off an eidolon "too fast" but this is what you taught us in the quest that void damage does. Honestly, you did such a good job with the Eidolons they'd still be a challenge to take down but that's a discussion for another topic.

Void Damage should "proc" a timed status condition (unrecognized by mods like Condition Overload), the higher the "void damage" proc's the more damage Void Damage does.

VOID DAMAGE fixed!

[quxier]

I like this void status on my Xaku so I didn't want change. However you raised few interesting suggestion so let me quote the best.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-Weapon disarming | Taking a page out of xaku, his 2end ability turns enemies weapons against them, maybe the void proc could do something similar and drop their weapons.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-Weapon jamming | Similar to mesa's ability second ability "Shooting Gallery", this would jam the weapons of anyone effected by void procs.

Very similar suggestion (one just beign more powerful) wouldn't change my Xaku gameplay.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-An effect similar to [Pax Seeker] | Where when an enemy with void proc dies, it releases several projectiles that seek out enemies.

I guess many procs would make it somehow effective but projectiles would still fail a lot. I'm very skeptical about this. On paper it sounds nice but in practice... not so good.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-Ghost Ally | One of the lesser known aspects of the game, the "ballistica prime" has the ability to spawn ghost versions of enemies it kills (when shot with full charge) that fight along side the player for a few seconds before fading away. This would be an excellent way to implement this into more things. When any enemies with void procs die, they spawn a ghost version ally.

Interesting. It wouldn't be too strong but it would still cause confusion. I like it.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-Mini void fissure | A lot less likely, but one of the cooler things they can do, making enemies effected by void procs, turn into corrupted enemies, as this is supposed to be VOID damage, and anything that wonders into the void, or void fissures becomes corrupted.

It's relatively easy to proc Void with Xaku so... I think it need to be changed a little I think.

However I had similar idea. Void proc would change enemies into different one. For example strong Heavy gunner into weak Butcher. Or even more "wild", void proc could change enemies into any enemies (e.g. Butcher into Ancient Healer). This would cause chaos... and that's what void is.

 

Any other hp/shield/energy regen would work.... but it's VERY BORING. Very. And it's already in system (pizzas, focus school, frames' abilities etc) and it could be done in some way with weapons, not tied it to one status. So... I think this suggestion is very bad.

On 2021-03-02 at 6:46 AM, Joezone619 said:

-Something similar to having viral and magnetic procs | Where the enemy with void proc would take more damage to their health and shields, But not quite double damage like viral and magnetic do separately to health and shields. (as a side note, this could make operator more effective in high level areas)

Same as above - we have damage-boosters statuses already.

[Zeddypanda]

A few options could make void status be relevant for Eidelons, literally the only place you want an amp for damage purposes. If the status doesn't help with Eidelons, it might as well not exist.

- Enemies inflicted by void takes increased crit damage, or has increased crit chance. Either one.

- Same void bubble as currently, but instead of redirecting bullets it acts as a second hitbox so you can multishot the same enemy with punch through.

- Bullets passing through void bubble gains punch through.

- Any attack inside of a void bubble deals 5% extra void damage per stack. Eidelons can now be fought by creating a bubble and shooting it with a real gun.

[Joezone619]

20 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

A few options could make void status be relevant for Eidelons, literally the only place you want an amp for damage purposes. If the status doesn't help with Eidelons, it might as well not exist.

- Enemies inflicted by void takes increased crit damage, or has increased crit chance. Either one.

- Same void bubble as currently, but instead of redirecting bullets it acts as a second hitbox so you can multishot the same enemy with punch through.

- Bullets passing through void bubble gains punch through.

- Any attack inside of a void bubble deals 5% extra void damage per stack. Eidelons can now be fought by creating a bubble and shooting it with a real gun.

good suggestions, with the "same as void bubble" one it would basicly do damage when hitting the bubble, then again when hitting the target, but all projectiles wouldn't be affected at all by the bubble?

[Uhkretor]

... Just get rid of the bubble and make it instantly lethal to Sentients, as its supposed to.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

instantly lethal to Sentients.

Do you know what balance is?

Maybe you lack the imagination, but subsumed Xata's whisper exists.

I don't want a mesa instantly killing sentients with one shot.

[Uhkretor]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Do you know what balance is?

Maybe you lack the imagination, but subsumed Xata's whisper exists.

I don't want a mesa instantly killing sentients with one shot.

... Ok... And that's your opinion, just like I gave mine.

[(NSW)Leafar]

now that i think about it isnt one of the main effects of magnetise on mag anchoring enemies in place and making them glue to each other ? what if it at least smallers enemies glue in place to ?

 

it would definitely help whit eidolons by making the bombalyst drones glue to the eidolon allowing you to hit them all at the same time. its annoying having to scramble around looking for bombalyst when ever they start healing the eidolons shield so it would help if they all glue to the eidolong and i can just shawk them all in 2 shots