Blazing Pillage is a Haven augment and should be treated as such

[(PSN)RookTheKnight]

Let's take a quick peek at Blazing Pillage, shall we?

Adds 200 Heat damage to Haven, and grants an additional 50 shields when Pillage is cast on enemies targeted by Haven.

You may be thinking, "this is pedantic, there's no point in which ability this augment is for, it affects both." Okay sure. But what about Pillage as a subsumed ability? Blazing Pillage has no effect on any warframe besides Hildryn; moving Blazing Pillage to Haven would open up space for an augment that may be more viable on other warframes.

Maybe an augment that grants armor instead of shield. Or procs electric on enemies. Endless possibilities with genuine function on other frames. Thanks for reading.

[crimsonspartan1]

I feel like it should be able to take affect without haven needing to be active, but the effects are halved against enemies not being affected by haven. It keeps the same mechanic, but can now work without needing another ability, meaning it can also be used on pillage as a subsumed ability. 

It’s a good augment for Hildryn at least. Lets you inflict heat procs on entire crowds, reduce their armour as a base effect and also restores your shields, meaning you can never run out of shields unless haven ends up draining your shields (but then just use Arcane Barrier and Aegis for the shield regeneration). But it’s only good on Hildryn because it requires another one of Hildryn’s abilities to even be able to function. Let it work against enemies unaffected by haven but weakened and it’ll still work, and it’d still be pretty decent because you can still cc enemies, reduce their armour and restore a small portion of shields per enemy. 

[(PSN)RookTheKnight]

3 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

It’s a good augment for Hildryn at least. Lets you inflict heat procs on entire crowds, reduce their armour as a base effect and also restores your shields, meaning you can never run out of shields unless haven ends up draining your shields (but then just use Arcane Barrier and Aegis for the shield regeneration). But it’s only good on Hildryn because it requires another one of Hildryn’s abilities to even be able to function. Let it work against enemies unaffected by haven but weakened and it’ll still work, and it’d still be pretty decent because you can still cc enemies, reduce their armour and restore a small portion of shields per enemy. 

It's an excellent augment on Hildryn. Reduced effect on enemies not affected by Haven isn't a bad idea.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Blazing Pillage should deal Heat damage/proc by itself and Radiation damage/proc to enemies affected by Haven

[Mu_Gera]

maybe it can both grant 50 shields/ignite enemies whenever it connects/reconnects and when pillage is casted on connected enemies.

[Leqesai]

I've wondered why this is an augment for pillage, as well. It is dependent on Haven and effectively causes haven to deal additional damage even if that damage is caused by pillage.

I mean... if you have haven active and use pillage, pillage can very well extend beyond the range of Haven doing no additional damage... So why is the mod tied to pillage instead of Haven... It really makes no damn sense.

[Vaml77]

It is an augment that causes a lot of confusion ... it is an augment that is linked to two abilities of this warframe generating confusion.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I would say it's deliberately a Pillage Augment because it limits the functionality of it. If it were just a Haven augment, then an auto-linking, Heat-proc'ing, shield-restoring function on an ability that's got a Drain cost would be a little flawed.

The idea is two-fold. The first is that Pillage is then the mechanical trigger for the function, rather than it being another passive, and the second is that it allows for Pillage to work when the enemies have no shields or armour.

Pillage is how you regain shields, but how do you do that when the enemies have none? Augment. How do we make an augment for Pillage that is not a straight-up over-powering of Pillage by adding damage and CC to its massively-effective radial debuff? Tie it to something that has limited range and can functionally target enemies within that range. What does that in Hildryn's kit already? Haven.

The tl;dr on this is simple:

Blazing Pillage would be straight-up too strong as an augment if it only applied to Pillage, it would be too strong as an augment if it only applied to Haven (since it's a straight damage buff and CC on an auto-targeting ability). So they've put it on Pillage and limited it by having its application reliant on the range and effect of Haven.

If DE actually do release a Haven augment, I will guarantee you it will be something completely stupid, something like Saryn's Revealing Spores, where you get utility instead of anything that actually affects the abilities.

[Lone_Dude]

This "augment" was made because people told DE that Pillage should have at least some effect on enemies without armor/shields. DE linked it to Haven because people called that ability crap also. Spit in the face of everyone who participated in leaving feedback during Hildryns release.

[(PSN)RookTheKnight]

On 2021-03-07 at 8:00 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I would say it's deliberately a Pillage Augment because it limits the functionality of it. If it were just a Haven augment, then an auto-linking, Heat-proc'ing, shield-restoring function on an ability that's got a Drain cost would be a little flawed.

I'm not suggesting the functionality of the augment be changed in any way whatsoever. I'm just suggesting that it be tied to Haven instead of Pillage so that Pillage can get a different augment.

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, (PSN)RookTheKnight said:

I'm not suggesting the functionality of the augment be changed in any way whatsoever. I'm just suggesting that it be tied to Haven instead of Pillage so that Pillage can get a different augment.

I don't think you understand the point I was making.

I said in the rest of the comment that if this was not reliant on being both it would be too powerful.

On just Pillage you would have a massive range CC, easily-stacked Damage, personal restore, armour/shield strip, and Status shedding.

On just Haven you would have an auto-targeting, damage ramping over-time, ally restore with literally infinite targets in range, that is also a personal restore.

Those functions would be too powerful on their own.

I'm not saying the augment needs to be changed either, I'm saying that DE deliberately made this reliant on two abilities because it's a limitation.

You're not going to get what you want, because this whole weird setup? It's completely deliberate to functionally nerf what would be an over-powered augment.

[Tiltskillet]

Since the OP's concern is just having an augment available for subsumed Pillage, a possible answer is just to have Blazing Pillage work without Haven on frames other than Hildryn.  For example, make it a random chance that enemies in subsumed Pillage's AoE are also set on fire.  There are other subsumed ability augments that could get similar treatment, like Tribunal  for Condemn.

The main drawback is that whatever  mechanic was used it would be opaque to anybody just looking at the augment card.  Some subsumed abilities have the same issue, but at least you can see what the altered stats look like on the Helminth screen.  Changing the text on the card when looking at it on a frame with subsumed Pillage would be very helpful, though it doesn't solve the issue completely.

Anyway, if DE is happy with Blazing Pillage on Hildryn the way it is, that's an alternative.

[(PSN)RookTheKnight]

20 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I don't think you understand the point I was making.

I'm not saying the augment needs to be changed either, I'm saying that DE deliberately made this reliant on two abilities because it's a limitation.

You're not going to get what you want, because this whole weird setup? It's completely deliberate to functionally nerf what would be an over-powered augment.

I think you're also not understanding the point I'm making. I'm not saying the augment shouldn't be reliant on more than one ability. I'm saying functionally, the way the augment already works, is augmenting Haven. Relegating it to Haven would open up opportunities for a less-powerful Pillage augment that might have utility on other frames.

Quote

On just Pillage you would have a massive range CC, easily-stacked Damage, personal restore, armour/shield strip, and Status shedding.

On just Haven you would have an auto-targeting, damage ramping over-time, ally restore with literally infinite targets in range, that is also a personal restore.

I'm not talking about changing its activation requirements to work on only a single ability. I'm literally just saying change the name to Blazing Haven to open up a slot for a new Pillage aug.

If your argument is that "both abilities should have to share one augment forever" I think that's a poor stance to take.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, (PSN)RookTheKnight said:

If your argument is that "both abilities should have to share one augment forever" I think that's a poor stance to take.

Okay, you've made your point.

I don't think it's going to happen, regardless, because the other point is still going to come into this;

Because Blazing Pillage is so powerful for the overall kit, if you make this change nothing will happen to Pillage either, any augment you get for Pillage after this change will only be something utterly pointless.

Pillage itself is already an extremely powerful ability, and can be subsumed in that state, it literally carries the entirety of Hildryn's kit and on other frames it gives a massive boost to both survivability and enemy debuffing. Giving it the option of a further Augment to itself will only make it more powerful unless that augment is something that is bad enough it fits in the Exilus. And heck, even if that was something like 'bonus movement speed based on the number of enemies hit' people would still take it, because it's still a buff.

I mean... I've known DE's methodology for the last seven years, it's so rare that they do anything even marginally as good as Blazing Pillage for any frame, so getting them to do something that would further up her power by moving this to Haven and coming up with another Pillage augment... it's odds are so close to zero that it's not even on the scale.