Proposal for Gas Damage

[Fontaisha]

Ever since the status changes in Update 27.2 Gas as a damage type has felt underwhelming compared to what it used to be due to the dramatic shift in how Gas functions now.

What was changed?

• New stacking effect that increases the area radius of the clouds.
• Gas clouds continue to tick radial damage even when the host dies.
• Removal of Gas damage being able to scale in any form with elemental damage mods.
• Gas clouds do not deal Toxin damage and status anymore, instead they deal Gas damage without any extra status effects.

What is the issue?

• The stacking effect is a nice addition, however the damage of the Gas cloud does not stack with it, this leads to only the highest instance of damage being used to calculate the tick damage.
• If Lavos uses an ability and one shots an enemy while he has Gas imbued (Catalyze does this frequently) no Gas cloud will be created, contrary to how this works with weapons in which it will make a Gas cloud regardless of if it were a one shot.
• Gas not being able to scale with elemental damage mods despite all other status effects that do damage over time having this scaling severely hampers it in comparison to those elements which scale as follows.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Heat Damage mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Heat damage.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Toxin Damage mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Toxin damage.
  0.5 × Base Damage × (1 + Electricity Damage from mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Electricity.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Faction Damage bonus) as Gas.

What can be done?

• Allow Gas clouds to scale their damage along with the radius with each proc up to 10 procs, based on the highest instances of damage that caused them.
• Fix the Lavos bug where Gas imbued abilities will not create a Gas cloud if it were to one shot
• Allow Gas damage to scale using Heat and Toxin mods (reasoning below)

Why should Gas scale with elemental damage, wouldn't that cause the clouds to do a ton of area damage especially if they could stack?

My reasoning as to why Gas damage should be allowed to scale with elemental damage is as follows.

• Gas damage requires 2 elements to build, and thus should be stronger than a single element in certain areas.
• By choosing to create Gas damage on your weapon you would not be able to have Heat damage on your weapon, and you would not be able to create Viral damage or Corrosive, meaning you miss out on the health multiplier of Viral damage, the Armor stripping of Corrosive, and the combination of Armor stripping with damage over time from Heat damage on most weapons.
• The only other elemental combination you could create would be magnetic which is not exactly seen as strong...
• There are only 2 (3 if counting non prime) weapons which deal Gas damage, 6 weapons which can proc a syndicate effect that deals Gas damage, and 2 Warframes whom can deal gas damage, with one (Revenant) only being able to do so against the Infested Faction. All of these things would not become overpowered with these changes.
• Gas still does reduced damage to Cloned Flesh (-50%), and Corpus Flesh (-25%), and the units Gas damage affects in the Infested Faction are easily disposed of, with the stronger units not being affected by the bonus damage Gas damage provides (Fossilized, and Infested Sinew units).
• The specialty of Gas damage is persisting area damage which it should be good at, but it currently feels significantly lacking to rely on it as a main method to kill things outside of Infested (which I'm aware is the faction it is targeted towards, however there are various other elements that are good against many factions outside of their targeted one)
• It would only stack the damage up to 10 times.
• It could open up a new build possibility with Gas being the main source of damage on a weapon, rather than just the current build options which are:

1. Viral Slash
2. Viral Heat
3. Corrosive Heat
4. Radiation Critical
5. Radiation Corrosive

Closing Statement

I hope that a member at DE can look at the proposal I have made and at the very least take a look at Gas damage to see what can be done to make it better, and definitely fix that Lavos bug.

[Uhkretor]

15 minutes ago, Fontaisha said:

Ever since the status changes in Update 27.2 Gas as a damage type has felt underwhelming compared to what it used to be due to the dramatic shift in how Gas functions now.

What was changed?

• New stacking effect that increases the area radius of the clouds.
• Gas clouds continue to tick radial damage even when the host dies.
• Removal of Gas damage being able to scale in any form with elemental damage mods.
• Gas clouds do not deal Toxin damage and status anymore, instead they deal Gas damage without any extra status effects.

What is the issue?

• The stacking effect is a nice addition, however the damage of the Gas cloud does not stack with it, this leads to only the highest instance of damage being used to calculate the tick damage.
• If Lavos uses an ability and one shots an enemy while he has Gas imbued (Catalyze does this frequently) no Gas cloud will be created, contrary to how this works with weapons in which it will make a Gas cloud regardless of if it were a one shot.
• Gas not being able to scale with elemental damage mods despite all other status effects that do damage over time having this scaling severely hampers it in comparison to those elements which scale as follows.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Heat Damage mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Heat damage.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Toxin Damage mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Toxin damage.
  0.5 × Base Damage × (1 + Electricity Damage from mods) × (1 + Faction Damage mods) as Electricity.
  0.5 × Modded Damage × (1 + Faction Damage bonus) as Gas.

What can be done?

• Allow Gas clouds to scale their damage along with the radius with each proc up to 10 procs, based on the highest instances of damage that caused them.
• Fix the Lavos bug where Gas imbued abilities will not create a Gas cloud if it were to one shot
• Allow Gas damage to scale using Heat and Toxin mods (reasoning below)

Why should Gas scale with elemental damage, wouldn't that cause the clouds to do a ton of area damage especially if they could stack?

My reasoning as to why Gas damage should be allowed to scale with elemental damage is as follows.

• Gas damage requires 2 elements to build, and thus should be stronger than a single element in certain areas.
• By choosing to create Gas damage on your weapon you would not be able to have Heat damage on your weapon, and you would not be able to create Viral damage or Corrosive, meaning you miss out on the health multiplier of Viral damage, the Armor stripping of Corrosive, and the combination of Armor stripping with damage over time from Heat damage on most weapons.
• The only other elemental combination you could create would be magnetic which is not exactly seen as strong...
• There are only 2 (3 if counting non prime) weapons which deal Gas damage, 6 weapons which can proc a syndicate effect that deals Gas damage, and 2 Warframes whom can deal gas damage, with one (Revenant) only being able to do so against the Infested Faction. All of these things would not become overpowered with these changes.
• Gas still does reduced damage to Cloned Flesh (-50%), and Corpus Flesh (-25%), and the units Gas damage affects in the Infested Faction are easily disposed of, with the stronger units not being affected by the bonus damage Gas damage provides (Fossilized, and Infested Sinew units).
• The specialty of Gas damage is persisting area damage which it should be good at, but it currently feels significantly lacking to rely on it as a main method to kill things outside of Infested (which I'm aware is the faction it is targeted towards, however there are various other elements that are good against many factions outside of their targeted one)
• It would only stack the damage up to 10 times.
• It could open up a new build possibility with Gas being the main source of damage on a weapon, rather than just the current build options which are:

1. Viral Slash
2. Viral Heat
3. Corrosive Heat
4. Radiation Critical
5. Radiation Corrosive

Closing Statement

I hope that a member at DE can look at the proposal I have made and at the very least take a look at Gas damage to see what can be done to make it better, and definitely fix that Lavos bug.

... It really feels like you didn't understand a thing about Gas damage and how it really works...

... And before you say that I don't know what I'm talking about... I keep thrashing enemies in Steel Path with it for 80k damage per tick (yes, against "Heavy" Infested unitss which take 2 or 3 ticks while trash Infested units disappear) so~ I don't know what to tell you...

 

But your idea shows you've put some thought about it...

[Fontaisha]

2 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... It really feels like you didn't understand a thing about Gas damage and how it really works...

... And before you say that I don't know what I'm talking about... I keep thrashing enemies in Steel Path with it for 80k damage per tick (yes, against "Heavy" Infested unitss which take 2 or 3 ticks while trash Infested units disappear) so~ I don't know what to tell you...

 

But your idea shows you've put some thought about it...

When I referenced its performance towards infested I merely said that it does not do bonus damage to the stronger units with which i was referring to bosses and deimos enemies.

I never once said nor implied it did low damage to the Infested anywhere in my post

The only other time I mentioned the Infested was when I said what the specialty of Gas damage was and I merely, to put it simply was saying that Gas should be better against other factions too.

The attitude was not necessary in your post but I will take it as constructive criticism nonetheless.

[Tyreaus]

22 minutes ago, Fontaisha said:

• Allow Gas clouds to scale their damage along with the radius with each proc up to 10 procs, based on the highest instances of damage that caused them.
• Fix the Lavos bug where Gas imbued abilities will not create a Gas cloud if it were to one shot
• Allow Gas damage to scale using Heat and Toxin mods (reasoning below)

Not to say these are bad ideas - they'd certainly nudge Gas in a better direction - but if the thought behind gas clouds is to have a lingering AoE damage, maybe giving Gas the Heat treatment might be effective too? That is, if an enemy in a gas cloud has Gas procced on them, the damage from that proc is added to the cloud and the cloud's duration refreshed. That one change alone (and fixing the Lavos bug) could probably make up for its other shortcomings, and put it in a different position of area denial.

[DrivaMain]

4 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... And before you say that I don't know what I'm talking about... I keep thrashing enemies in Steel Path with it for 80k damage per tick (yes, against "Heavy" Infested unitss which take 2 or 3 ticks while trash Infested units disappear) so~ I don't know what to tell you...

Let me guess... you copied a cheesy meta melee setup from some youtuber to reach that level of ridiculousness? How about you apply gas to something like The Scourge and see how that plays out for you.

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Let me guess... you copied a cheesy meta melee setup from some youtuber to reach that level of ridiculousness? How about you apply gas to something like The Scourge and see how that plays out for you.

Huh?

I'll never follow a retar- -youtuber's build as long as I'm alive. I know how to mod stuff, thank you very much.

... I did try Gas out on Scourge, and it still works well. However, I have better weapons than Scourge so~...