Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[Toonya]

3 часа назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

360 Turret view for Gunners.

Can you please make an option for switch between 360 degree and previous view? Sometimes much more atmospheric when you shooting from window of Railjack, than just somewhere in space. =)

[TheFBD]

I just checked my railjack and even though i have optimized shields, engines, reactors and even two sets of armaments i have exactly 11 completely build wreckages.

Ranking up my intrinsics to max and farming all the mods, dirac and components and i'm not even qualifiying for tier 2????

Are the early adopter packages meant to be unreachable??? @[DE]Rebecca

[Numerounius]

Showing a lot of Placeholder stuff in the video presentation. And says it will be fixed by the time it is released yet the nightwave intermission that was launched only 3-4 weeks ago with its new missions and rewards showed [PH] and incomplete notification pop ups.

 

And I have been an avid user of the bug report forums where there are many people necroing many old threads and would love to see these issues fixed before these massive updates are being pushed out. And have made plenty of new threads myself with legitimate issues and could easy confirm a lot of the common issues posted there 

 

At the end you mention how everything is core, problem is having everything core means that a large majority of your content is going to have bugs and they will persist if you don't fix them.

[Above]

bruh

[Steel_Rook]

My first question is, of course: WHEN RAILJACK?!? :)

A bit more seriously, I'm honestly pretty happy with almost all of the changes. This should go a long, LONG way towards making Railjack more fun and less tedious, not to mention more friendly for solo players and small teams. I'm already having flashbacks to my days playing Payday 2 and being so familiar with bot commands that I unconsciously call out their names out loud over voice chat when issuing commands.

 

A few points worth bringing up:

• I absolutely agree with the changes to Boost and Drift - and no, not only because they're ostensibly exactly what I've proposed in the past :) I hate "sprint stamina" and couldn't be happier to see it gone. The trade-off of pilots not being able to Boost and Shoot makes perfect sense to me, and I'm more than happy to accept it.
• What are the changes to Necramechs, exactly? Does the removal of sprint Stamina from Railjack also mean a removal of sprint Stamina from Necramechs? After all, they already can't shoot while boosting. Additionally, does the Tactical 5 allow the use of Necramechs in all missions or just all RAILJACK missions? That's a pretty significant distinction.
• I'm not sure I'm sold on fuelling Railjack with our Warframe energy. On the one hand, it basically renders the Railjack energy economy moot since we can bring 200 Energy Restores to missions with us. On the other hand, I kind of liked managing my energy as resource similar to munitions and omnigun ammo. Oh - and does that mean we have a new resource to craft with, or are we still crafting with Pustrels and Carbides and the other upgrade resources?

That's pretty much all that concerns me here. Pretty much everything else in this workshop, I'm just looking forward to as described. So again - when baro railjack?

[Malkiur]

2 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

I just checked my railjack and even though i have optimized shields, engines, reactors and even two sets of armaments i have exactly 11 completely build wreckages.

Ranking up my intrinsics to max and farming all the mods, dirac and components and i'm not even qualifiying for tier 2????

Are the early adopter packages meant to be unreachable??? @[DE]Rebecca

I don't know if you realize this but the Tier 1-3 compensation is ONLY for the wreckage, all the Dirac and Intrinsics get refunded in the exact amount you spent and have saved up (In case of Dirac), and the mods stay as they are, probably missed that.

[Xazur]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Necramechs Become Deployable in all Railjack missions.

Going to ask to make sure, is this just for railjack? or all missions including the base game? Because I saw in the video it said ALL, yet this is trying to tell me otherwise.

[CoffeeElemental]

3 часа назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

As of this update, all Railjack ammo stockpiles are tracked separately per player.

Don't really like this one.

3 часа назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

Battle/Tactical abilities will now be fueled by Warframe energy

And this one.
The rest sounds promising.

[Ozais]

would be cool if we could pilot the enemy fighters or research our own ik that we have archwing but it would be cool tho

[ModerateConservative]

Why was not tested using the test servers first? Most of my thoughts towards this dev worsk shop are rather mixed (leaning more towards negative). This would have been a great oppprtunity to test this by using the test servers first. Most of the changes in the dev work shop are head scratchers to say the least, and some changes don't need to be changed at all. To summarize my thoughts in no particular order:

The watering down of railjack is a mistake. It takes the complexity away from it, thus making it less unique (as what it was ment to be originally).

This was not tested on the test servers first. 

The direction of blending "core warframe" and railjack is also a mistake, as core warframe does not blend well with railjack. Railjack was supposed to be differnt from "core warframe" but it really doesn't fit in.

Stop trying to make railjack accessable to new players as it not ready for them to experince it yet. It is npt ment to be the new player experince until at least a new player has a firm understanding of how this game functions, and or even if that players has any interest in this game.

 

There are more thoughts that could be written down but that would be like writting an essay at that point. Maybe another time perhaps.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

If you’d rather just jump straight into the action, a fully built Railjack will also be available through the Market for Platinum in the new Railjack category. Maybe you’ve noticed a pattern - when we released Necramechs, we didn’t sell them for Platinum at launch either. Their Market appearance came many months later with Orphix Venom. It’s almost paradoxical that as a Free to Play game we don’t put these new items in the Market. There really isn’t a good reason, either, and players with Platinum - whether bought or traded - really have made it clear they’d like the option to buy new items. And now the option is there. And if you want to go the free path, it’s easier with less resources required.

Thanks from vets. Dunno if it good intensions or not, but ok.

 

Now, to the point.

1. Marking loot is great. but what if i dont want to? For a 2D map it is absolute good, but for the only option to flood the main screen?..
2. Skills overthinking... Doesn't look great. I mean you just put crafting restrictions. TBH i was sure idea is opposite. Make everything accesable. But not a big deal for me. At least you dont broke anything, right? Now i will craft 2 dome charges by default, right? Right?
3. What the point of the dash restriction? Like ok, i can take Itzal Nerf, but this... There is literally one ship in map, why i can't just move as much as i want? Just imagine this idea in regular gameplay "ya, we remove stamina, but now you have a little (just a ti-i-i-iny) cooldown for jump and slide. But you can jump more now!"
4. I don't know what is hard about Gian Point. This is just dumb. And simple. It's not like GP prevent me from playing other nodes. Big halls to reach objectives prevent me. Broken markers prevent me. Bugs, breaking mission at all prevent me. Gian Point was good for affinity. If there is no more GP (fast ranking) -- i will not play RJ. That's it.
5. BTW, what about vaulted relics? I didn't saw the mention, does it still the case? Or this is a bit too much and only arcanes are the deal now?

6. 2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

   Now, clicking a node with no open squads in the regular Star Chart will start your own hosted mission, instead of giving you an error about no open squads and asking you to go to the Dry Dock (or the back of your Ship).

   Exuse me, this mean "the buff to mm" is i no longer can be host and pilot my own ship? And if i don't want to be the pilot, i have no button for this?

7. How again aviamods make sence? I mean, we still have Hull, trusters, turrets and reactors binded to RJ. This just making option to board other ppl RJ worst. Before you can rank up some instrisintcs and be good. Now you need to farm mods to even hope you will be good. How does this improve something? "I have battle forge!"... no, sorry. Now you need to use it by yourslelf. "My FA oneshot CS". No, sorry. Now you can't just have great ship for all. And as a client you still have to rely on host's RJ. What is impovement, again?

8. 2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

   This allows players with existing tools for Energy generation to better integrate those tools into regular Railjack gameplay, further intertwining the two sides of the game

   You mean now i should use Zenurik every 30 sec? Did you even playtest this? I don't see how this is improve something. Before i have engineers. Important and usefull. Now i need to manage energy by myself. Waaaaat? And pls, tell me enemy ships now drop energy orbs. No? OK, so no energize. Thanks. Much better game flow now.

9. 2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

   From Revolite to Dome Charges, you’ll only have to keep track of your own ammo consumption.

   BTW, can you show me UI for this? Or this, again, just nerf? TBH at this point i'm not sure why piloting is left for one person. Why no voting options? You know, like twitch-gaming. You press in chat what direction you want to fly and...

10. 2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

    We are removing the second layer of ‘Railjack’ Damage types to unify and have the system be based on what Players already spend time learning: core Warframe elements. This means that:

    Again, nerfing, removing... So no more corrosive in space. OK, fine. And let me tell you the secret. To reduce time to learning, or to have the playerbase who actually learn... you may add just a little tip what the hek is Plasma. Or what Heat do. Normal Heat i mean. There is still in 2021 the only way -- reading the wiki. Dumb post about elements have many thousands of upvotes on reddit. Just becouse this is how you learn in WF. MAXIMUM for casual player knowing "slash is good". And only Steve know, why you have ZERO chance to even get the idea "slash mods do not add damage for a bleeed proc" before you read whole wiki. Not mentioning this mechanic is how the game work. For simplisity i guess.

11. 2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

    Both of those things are now removed, so the new role of Reactors is to provide Power Strength, Range, or Duration buffs to Railjack Battle Avionics being used aboard the ship!

    So, i don't even have MY fully moded avionics on another ship? I mean this is like i use Oberon, but mods are from Octavia config?... Great. So Host have config for avionics, but i will not able to use his avionics? Great.

12.  I'm hoping your clarification is just not actually clarifing, but i've started video and "host can't no longer determine what are you using at the side guns and the pilot seat". Pls tell me this is just bad wording. If your are actually mean this -- public MM is just dead now. That's sad, cause at least in Veil Proxima (Gian Point, yes) this was smooth, with everybody knows what are they doing. And if you are actually mean this and ppl with bad ships are forced to host and you can not be even sure your ship is piloting by confident pilot -- this will be just a mess.

P.S. I love you guys. I'm really are. You are the best and most passioned crew i can even hope to meet as a game devs.

Spoiler

 

But you need ONE GUY who will answer simple questions. Like "what the point of Railjack". Do we want to advertise and develope this like a selling point for a new players (look, this game is not only shooter/slasher but also kidna spacesim)? Do we just want to extend game life and you focused at old players who want another gameplay? We want this to be hard and cooperative (a bit like raids) or perfectly solo-able like most of the content?

For now i don't feel like i've understood something. What are you doing, what the point and have you even any direction.

But, for now i don't feel like i've understood something. You just move RJ to another direction, but i don't think this will be works. It just will stand in half point with no feature to like. Now i like the feeling i have a good crew, who perfectly fit everything. Or joining pro pilot. This is something rare for the coop game. I mean, specially for Warframe. In warframe most of the time you plaing public just becouse you can. To have some online expirience, you know. And, for any a little bit hard mission, i've just check "solo" option. I don't think this is good in general. But this is your game.

 

So, reducing grind is always good. I guess. But this is also mean you reducing reason to play. As i sayd, if affinity farm became slower i've just stop to play RJ.

And i don't see another major point of this update. Thanks for Umbra forma anyway.

Spoiler

Maybe i'm wrong, but ONE tutorial mission will make everything much better.

Like: this is FA, you can use FA to kill Crewships. This is foundry. This is emergency you need to fix. This is Crewships arfer all. Just beeing able to test FA already big deal.

Nobody will teach players but you. I mean i will, but... Meeting the person in Veil Proxima, who have no idea what is foundry is terrifying.

At least this is how I will solve the problem of playerbase don't play truly coop missions. Sure they don't. You need to have 2-3 ppl who knows what are they doing. Or your gameplay will shift for a large gap. Sure it is became mess pretty fast. You need time to learn anything, but you have only ragequits in public. This is not so hard and complex, but you have no way to learn how is something work.

You are imaging people are can play RJ without even having they own? Great. This is how you immediatly create the disaster.

Wait a second. Now you just buy RJ with no restrictions? Oh.

 

 

 

 

[SolidSnake8774]

1 minute ago, ModerateConservative said:

Why was not tested using the test servers first? Most of my thoughts towards this dev worsk shop are rather mixed (leaning more towards negative). This would have been a great oppprtunity to test this by using the test servers first. Most of the changes in the dev work shop are head scratchers to say the least, and some changes don't need to be changed at all. To summarize my thoughts in no particular order:

The watering down of railjack is a mistake. It takes the complexity away from it, thus making it less unique (as what it was ment to be originally).

This was not tested on the test servers first. 

The direction of blending "core warframe" and railjack is also a mistake, as core warframe does not blend well with railjack. Railjack was supposed to be differnt from "core warframe" but it really doesn't fit in.

Stop trying to make railjack accessable to new players as it not ready for them to experince it yet. It is npt ment to be the new player experince until at least a new player has a firm understanding of how this game functions, and or even if that players has any interest in this game.

 

There are more thoughts that could be written down but that would be like writting an essay at that point. Maybe another time perhaps.

Do these echo alot of your thoughts?

[TheFBD]

30 minutes ago, Malkiur said:

I don't know if you realize this but the Tier 1-3 compensation is ONLY for the wreckage, all the Dirac and Intrinsics get refunded in the exact amount you spent and have saved up (In case of Dirac), and the mods stay as they are, probably missed that.

I was aware of that. The handling of the intrinsics and dirac are fair, i just pointed that out to state that i'm seeing myself as a very early adopter and the compensation requirements are insanely high. I doubt anyone on the path to maxing out their railjack ever reached the 30 repaired wreckages. It simply makes no sense to repair that many, especially as in the early days the component requirements were absurdly high too so it was technically impossible to do that many.

Even if you would've build one of each mk3 weapon, mk3 shield, engine and reactor and then fused another set of shield, engine and reactor,  you would not even qualify for tier 1. I can't imagine how they came up with these numbers.

Edit: i meant you would only reach tier1 and not even qualify for tier 2

[DrLego]

Quote

Your Syndicate alignments determine all.

YESSSSSSSS

I love that! I love all of this. THIS IS GREAT AND EXCELLENT!

[Malkiur]

Just now, TheFBD said:

I was aware of that. The handling of the intrinsics and dirac are fair, i just pointed that out to state that i'm seeing myself as a very early adopter and the compensation requirements are insanely high. I doubt anyone on the path to maxing out their railjack ever reached the 30 repaired wreckages. It simply makes no sense to repair that many, especially as in the early days the component requirements were absurdly high too so it was technically impossible to do that many.

Even if you would've build one of each mk3 weapon, mk3 shield, engine and reactor and then fused another set of shield, engine and reactor,  you would not even qualify for tier 1. I can't imagine how they came up with these numbers.

Tier 1 literally only requires you to build 1 wreckage. For the rest, well if you want it so bad, better get cracking! I do agree it could be lower, but even Tier 2 is already good compensation imo.

[AegisSiege]

I had my Railjack built a good 2 weeks before update 27 came out, back in Rising Tides.
I have maxed out Intrinsics (and have played enough to have maxed out Command if I could have too)
My ship's Grid is maxed, and all but six Avionics are max ranked. The six are one from the Space Scarlet Spear mission that I didn't play a lot of.
My 13 or so ship components that I've kept are all fused to the max.
I feed Helminth Railjack resources to troll my friends because I have so many. 
I am among the earliest adopters, and longest playing Railjack players.
Looking at those packages supposedly for people like me, and their neat I guess? but I don't need any of that...
Give me a bunch of froma that I can just plug in with out having to relevel my Plexus so I can just keep playing with all my power I have earned. 

[Leqesai]

29 minutes ago, Shifted said:

Why is railjack still mission based?
Where is the seamless transfer from orb vallis to railjack?

While not terrible, all of this is just fighting symptoms, simplifying and making it easier to start, but it doesn't really change why railjack is boring.

I wanted Warframe's No Man's Sky and I got Warframe's Star Wars Battlefront

It was never intended to be what you are imagining...

[-Zr-Scroll]

First I want to thank you for the update details and courage to make such a huge undertaking for a better overall experience.

The video format was a great addition to compliment the text version of dev workshop!

I do have questions on some particulars though:

= Early Adaptors Reimbursement =

Do I get to keep my Components/Armaments as they are (except for the Reactors ofc), which I have 53 of, or do I need to recraft them? As I have all the different weapons/engines/shields/reactors valence fusioned to max % two times over, as I want to have all possible combinations available to me on demand.

Is there a difference between 'completed wreckage' : 30% Apoc vs 60% Apoc (that has been valence fused 2, 5 or 10 times) when considering the bundle tiers?

If I would have 60 Wreckage; would I get the Tier 3 Early Adaptor bundle twice?

Since Reactors will be removed and the 'modding capacity' will replace the 'Avionics Capacity' ; What will determine my capacity after the update? Is it my Mastery Rank? Is Plexus a separate 'item' to be leveled and mastered with XP/Affinity?

= Plexus =

I see Polarities on the Railjack mod slots. I assume this will require Formas. I really do hope, I don't need to "re-level" my Plexus after each polarity like with normal gear. Also the old Grid system was great tbh as I was just able to level it up without a drawback and choose which avionic to boost with it.

On that note ; does the avionics to mods conversion reflect the stats from Grid 0 or Grid 3 stats? -> Is my Conic Nozzle R0 going to be 3,2% or 12,8%?

I think that if a player had a maxed out Grid Slot - they should get a forma for it. So having all 15 grid slots maxed -> 15 Formas reimpursed. (if partial; 15x3 = 45 total grid upgrades ; if you got all at lvl2 -> 30 upgrades ; divide by 3 to get 10 formas).

= Intrinsics =

If Intrinsics still retain the MASTERY from acquiring them -> AIM SNAP NEEDS ENABLE/DISABLE after being acquired. It actively makes shooting super disorienting and objectively worse than having full control myself.

Alternatively, DECOUPLE player camera from the aim snap. Let the reticle move independent from camera or something.

= Damage type unification =

what will happen to the 'status effects' from Railjack damagetypes like 'Concuss' or 'immobilize'?

How is the damage interaction actually changed in practise or is the unification only in form of terms used?

= Matchmaking =

Can I still force to play as host or is it completely on matchmakings discretion?

I really want to be able to choose if I want to join or host - exactly like in Scarlet Spear Murex Missions. I really hoped that the Host/Join CHOICE from Murex Raids would have become the norm across the entire game.

==============

These are the top questions and concerns I had while reading the Dev Workshop.

Otherwise I'm very eager to get my hands on the update, especially the Command Intrinsics and findings the new secrets the Corpus Proximas hide! Also thank you for removing the stamina bar and increasing the overall speed!

Also I wonder if the Wolf of Saturn Six prison will make an reappearance in the Saturn Proxima with this update?

[keikogi]

I´m here to tell ancient lore.

Let's start this by recalling ancient times where the aw HP and shield where warframe HP and shield multiplied by aw mods. This feature was removed because to the surprise of no one people just grabbed the highest raw EHP frame to play AW. 

And here we go again. Railjack energy is the warframe energy pool. Want to pilot with Inaros , well good luck using avionics with your rage build , better slap a unnecessary primed flow and  be ready for coffee breaks ( leave seat to do the zenurik dance or drop pizzas ). I guess I should just play Energizer bunny( volt prime ) instead to reduce the amount of coffee breaks.

This change will negatively impact diversity and add pointless hoops to railjack gameplay, I don´t think taking coffe breakes is a healthy gameplay loop for pilots not I think limiting the pool off viable warfames for crew is a good idea. 

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

Yah now we have another realy anoying thing to grind for a new Levan, vidar, or (cant remember the name) hull matrix to get 

Why can't you guys leave the components to the ship alone id rather not half to grind for another realy rng based components for my railjack when you could just use the hull and armor mods 

[SolidSnake8774]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

It was never intended to be what you are imagining...

They literally had a show case of railjack initially before it came out, being exactly that. 

[CeruleanHex]

3 hours ago, shieldb said:

I'm assuming that Hildryn will function just like she does with Helminth infused abilities where it's a shield cost multiplier on the energy cost, but what about Lavos? Just cooldowns on everything?

This is what has me worried. Individual energy use? Sure. Having it all attached to Warframe energy? Less sure. Makes certain builds less effective or untenable.

[p_silveira]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

One other important change to note about the energy economy - as part of the transition from Railjack-based Avionics to player-based Harnesses, Battle/Tactical abilities will now be fueled by Warframe energy, and Flux Energy will be completely removed from the game (any Avionics that relate to it will be converted to Endo). This allows players with existing tools for Energy generation to better integrate those tools into regular Railjack gameplay, further intertwining the two sides of the game.

I can totally see pilots spamming pizzas and then spamming Thether or other high AoE Railjack powers, and not letting anything alive to the other players. If there is no timer, cooldown or a high energy cost to stop people from spamming, the Railjack experience will become a complete sh!tshow of AoE ability spamming.

[Cephalon-Feral]

-command intrinsic, hire new crewmates. time to maybe introduce syndicate armor so we can match?
-static RJ map, please tell me its now tied to the M map instead of being separate for no reason?
-WF energy = RJ energy, whyyyy? some frames have infinite energy and some frames dont even use energy how will that work or will there be multiple rules?
-RJ nodes.. why are there so many and why are they tied to a separate screen.. just make each planet have 4 nodes that are tied to the main screen rather than current separate menu.
-missions drop arcanes.. but arcanes are kinda useless for anyone that did the events cause it was super easy to farm the meta arcanes.. maybe add some less "filler" rewards.

 

 

[_junguler]

this all sounds cool but when you are going to remove all these annoying white flashes that happen in some missions and after each round of so/eso? it's really hard on my eyes as i play at night with a very large tv that i use as monitor.