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Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack


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25 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

I was aware of that. The handling of the intrinsics and dirac are fair, i just pointed that out to state that i'm seeing myself as a very early adopter and the compensation requirements are insanely high. I doubt anyone on the path to maxing out their railjack ever reached the 30 repaired wreckages. It simply makes no sense to repair that many, especially as in the early days the component requirements were absurdly high too so it was technically impossible to do that many.

Even if you would've build one of each mk3 weapon, mk3 shield, engine and reactor and then fused another set of shield, engine and reactor,  you would not even qualify for tier 1. I can't imagine how they came up with these numbers.

Welp, I have 53 Repaired Wreckage. Because why not. Better to use the drops to full potential rather than scrapping them, since I've had the resources to do it.

2 of each different Armament AND House variant, so I can have any possible combination of 2 Armaments equipped. ALL OF THEM at maxed % values via Valence Fusion.

Reactors and Engines are all maxed out similarly with their corresponding buff-variants.

Vidar and Lavan Shield Arrays are the only ones that are not fully maxed, as they are missing like 1 valence fusion each from being maxed, but are practically maxed.

The things I do not have are the Clan BP MK3 variants of Pulsar etc. Armaments as I got the MK3 House variants earlier and they are objectively better.

I'm here wondering, if I'd be eligible for 2x of Tier 3 Early Adaptor bundle if I were to build a few Clan BPs to reach a 60 Repaired Wreckage.

Edited by -Zr-Scroll
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21 minutes ago, Malkiur said:

Tier 1 literally only requires you to build 1 wreckage. For the rest, well if you want it so bad, better get cracking! I do agree it could be lower, but even Tier 2 is already good compensation imo.

As someone who still play RJ even now, I can just spam Earth Proxima missions and have enough to repair more than 30 T1 wreckages, but I still think this is a stupid requirement. Using intrinsic as the qualifier is more fitting, like some people said.

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1 minute ago, p_silveira said:

I can totally see pilots spamming pizzas and then spamming Thether or other high AoE Railjack powers, and not letting anything alive to the other players. If there is no timer, cooldown or a high energy cost to stop people from spamming, the Railjack experience will become a complete sh!tshow of AoE ability spamming.

That's not really different from rest of WF, though. And it sounds like gunners will be able to spam abilities as well, which just means the gunplay takes a backseat for a lot of space combat. Again, not unlike the rest of WF. It's not strictly ideal, but the only ones really left out are archwing players.

And that needs its own rework, I think. Archwing is meant to make a frame competitive against fighters. Currently, Amesha is the only one that has survivability it needs, and no arch weaponry is anywhere near adequate at high levels. Basically, it all comes down to fighters being too tanky, which is never the purpose of a combat fighter. Scale their health and armor down, reduce damage of AoE powers accordingly, and then both archwing and turrets become viable again. And I think something like this is coming, but you have to make adjustments to core mechanics before you start balancing. So I'm cautiously optimistic about the changes in the long run, despite still being somewhat broken for now.

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they couldnt just make the "adopter" tier based off maxing your intrinsics?

 

i'm not gonna go back into railjack just to spam repair mk1 parts to make sure i hit 30.  i'm not to bothered cause the rewards are whatever, but that "30 completed wreckage" to be considered an "early adopter" doesnt seem right to me.   You can build your railjack into "endgame" ready state in less than 15 repairs

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Player has Completed 1 or more Wreckage or Clan BP: Tier 1

1x Rush Repair Drone
2x Armament Slots
10 x Riven Slivers
Bonus Railjack Mods
- Munitions Vortex
- Battle Forge
- Particle Ram
- Void Hole
- Railjack Resource Bundle

Player has completed at least 12 Wreckage: Tier 2

- Everything in Tier 1
- 2x Rush Repair Drones
- 15 Riven Slivers
- 10,000 Endo
 -7 Day Resource and Affinity Booster
- Railjack Resource Bundle #2

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

Do clan BPs only count for the first tier?

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2 hours ago, DeathMavrik said:

Those are very valid points that I agree on. 

However, I hate that they are dumbing down something that never really needed it.

I like sometimes exploring the ship and its different rooms and how different some are to accommodate what technology they house. 

Also doesn't having the ship be that big also contribute to the gameplay of fixing it? 

I mean I loved seeing scenes in star wars when han and chewy were in different areas in the millennium falcon trying to repair it, sometimes in the middle of a battle. 

It wasn't just a hop scotch away from the helm of the ship, they had to sometimes haul ass over there which made it slightly hilarious and nerve wracking. 

It just seems like they are taking some of the soul of that game mode away for the sake of simplicity.

Not everything has to be immediately accessible in a game that's where some of the challenge lies. 

If everything is convenient, then it just becomes stale and lifeless. 

Agreed. A bit upset they're shrinking the size of the ship.

Also as much as more windows makes it look nice, some of us get motion sick pretty easy and more windows = more motion sick for me. I liked some of the areas with walls.

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This is superb. Will there be a tutorial? Just basic stuff like where each station is in the railjack & what it does. Text and pictures is all you need but without something It'll be confusing for returning players that don't read patchnotes for fun & for new players... worse

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11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3. What will keep me playing?
Corpus Railjack
Command
 New Missions

None of these will keep players playing railjack, after we finished those "new mission" for "corpus railjack".  All of those are better categorized as "what will temporarily keep me playing until the missions are done" or "what will get me started and introduced". They will not last.

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

4. What Comes Next?
Void Storms and Relics!
Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii
 A better foundation for Update 30 and beyond.

"Void storms and relics" is what would KEEP us playing. This should be under "what will keep me playing" instead of "corpus railjack, command, new missions"

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Early Adopters

Now for the “Early Adopters” information. Whether you’re someone that’s already ‘finished’ Railjack or have just a couple of hours under your belt - we have a variety of bundles you may be eligible for!

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Player has Completed 1 or more Wreckage or Clan BP: Tier 1

1x Rush Repair Drone
2x Armament Slots
10 x Riven Slivers
Bonus Railjack Mods
- Munitions Vortex
- Battle Forge
- Particle Ram
- Void Hole
- Railjack Resource Bundle

Player has completed at least 12 Wreckage: Tier 2

- Everything in Tier 1
- 2x Rush Repair Drones
- 15 Riven Slivers
- 10,000 Endo
 -7 Day Resource and Affinity Booster
- Railjack Resource Bundle #2

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

Why are these based solely on wreckage? what about missions complete, hours played, avionics leveled, grids leveled, all of those take a lot of time too, and besides I'm am pretty sure there isn't even 30 different wreckage to build.

 

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Unified Damage Types

Railjack combat inherited a lot of the familiar Warframe damage types, but with a twist. Impact became Ballistic, Cold became Frost, and so on. We are removing the second layer of ‘Railjack’ Damage types to unify and have the system be based on what Players already spend time learning: core Warframe elements. This means that:

Ballistic = Impact
Plasma = Puncture
Particle = Slash
Frost = Cold
Ionic = Electricity
Incendiary = Heat
Chem = Toxin

If these are just copies of the normal elements and do the same things, why not just use the regular elements? It would be simpler, require no learning curve, and be less complicated to understand.

 

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

What will keep me playing?

Corpus Railjack is here! These Robots and Crewmen taking to the skies will greatly expand the Proxima star chart - three new planets (Venus, Neptune and Pluto Proxima) will introduce new enemies, new points of interest and more. There will also be the most difficult missions for Corpus Railjack added to the Veil Proxima.

Again, this does not "keep" players playing, those missions are all temporary and once players finish them, they have nothing to do in railjack again. Things like fissures, or ways of getting kuva, and possibly even endo, things we always need more of, will "keep us playing".

 

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are also adding two new mission types! The first, known as Orphix, will be familiar to anyone who played the Orphix Venom event - take down the Sentient invaders, making use of Operators and Necramechs to circumvent the nullifier pulse fields. Instead of earning event currency, these missions are planned to drop Arcanes, offering an alternative to Eidolon capturing squads.

I cannot stress how much I recommend against this. The ophix venom event was a colossal dumpster fire, its easily IMO the worst event in warframe's history. Not only that, but this is exactly what happened with the pacifist defect event, it turned into a mission type, and now that mission type is easily the most hated mission type in warframe.

I gave feedback on orphix venom, its pros, and cons, and it all ended out to be a generous 3/10. I tried looking for more pros, but the 3 listed there are all i could find, and they are barley even positives.

Simply put, locking everyone out of their warframe completely, disable warframes, primary weapons, secondary weapons, melee weapons', and sentinels is just flat out unacceptable to me. The archwing stuff is the least developed in the game from both a developer and player standpoint. And being one of the newest things in the game, necramechs aren't far behind archwing in terms of development.

If this is to come to pass, i cannot argue strongly enough, how much warframes have to be enabled for those who do not own necramechs, and those who do not like to use necramechs. Operator is just too weak to be considered an alternative, even in normal missions, let alone railjack.

Not to mention how counter productive the void damage status proc is, magnetize is more hurtful then helpful, constantly drawing your projectiles away from enemies, to only 1 enemy in the front affected by it. And it seems a lot of players agree.

 

Edited by Joezone619
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Yeah, my hot take reaction is iffy on a lot of this, but VERY negative to the Plexus thing. I guess I'll go through the topics though:

More Accessible:
 

Buyable Railjack - I guess that's okay, but I find it hard to buy that this is done purely out of the goodness of your hearts for accessibility. But it's a Free-To-Play game, I guess it's to be expected, so I'm not too mad. I'm not happy about it, but I can deal with this

Avionics to Mods/Meet the 'Plexus'
 
This section. THIS SECTION. I have words on this. 'Not Happy' words.

I guess I'll do the first part as my less miffed feedback - I do not think there was anything wrong with the Avionics system before. It was fairly straightfoward - separate from the modding system that other things use, but arguably more straightforward and easier. I do not think Avionics and the Grid needed to be changed or removed in such an extreme manner as this workshop proposes.  The idea of having player-by-player mods affecting the Railjack is a positive idea, but I strongly feel the rest of the alterations to the Railjack avionics/modding system are for the worse.
 
Leading onto my raw feelings on this:

This post espouses "less grind" a bunch of times, but... it looks like you're adding Forma-ing to the Avionics grid. That seems like a heck of a lot more grind to me, if I now have to dig up possibly up to 15 forma to forma all the slots if that much capacity is required. 
 
You said that people that decked out their Railjacks before the update would be taken care of, but I sure as heck don't feel taken care of with the idea that I may have to Forma my Railjack 10+ times, and the uncertainty if the Dirac > Endo auto-conversion will give me enough Endo to re-max all the Avionics I had ranked - and I just thought, this means Modvionics will require credits too, right? So that's even more grind. I have a great deal of concern here that as someone who has a close-to-maxed Railjack, nearly all the Avionics maxed, nearly all Intrinsics maxed (only not maxed because I was saving for command and don't want the Gunnery lock on Intrinsic), a fully kitted out set of parts on my Railjack with all the Tier 3 Guns, that... I'm not going to be taken care of at all - that someone who has a huge stack of Endo and Credits but barely invested in their Railjack if at all is going to insta-max all their modvionics, while I'll get refunded nowhere near enough Endo and/or Credits to re-max mine. 
 
All in all, I really really really 100x really think the Avionics > Mods change is just bad. It has the benefit of unifying the system, but at the cost of adding a ton more grind through Forma, possibly a second required currency you need to grind to upgrade Modvionics (Credits). The current system has build freedom, you just toss in whatever Avionics you want and as long as they fit in capacity, you're good. The proposed changed system adds polarities into the mix, which may ultimately instead kill a bunch of that freedom we have under the current system. At the most I think the correct choice would be maybe change Dirac to Endo as proposed but leave the avionics grid and avionics + grid upgrade systems as they are. LEAVE THE AVIONICS AND GRID ALONE, I BEG YOU.   
 
Edit: I think to add on after a night of letting it settle, another re-framing of my thoughts is: Getting rid of the current Avionics Grid system is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, it's addressing a perceived "problem" with the current system by completely overhauling it instead of just addressing the issue - it doesn't need to be completely thrown out and replaced, it just needs a small tutorial screen - like the regular modding screen has in that diorama.  The current system is not bad, it just needs some explaining rather than none.
 
Intrinsics 2.0 
 

Nothing here sounds too bad... but also the changed stuff isn't highlighted despite what the section header says, so. But looking over it, most of this sounds fine - would be nice to know if I can turn the Rank 10 gunnery bonus off though, because I still don't want that personally. 
 
Command Intrinsic 
 

Again, sounds pretty good. Would be nice to have more info on what Command Ranks give, but sounds good so far - I do have a shred of concern about the hires earning affinity, but it looks like each hire has their own Intrinsic basically? I do hope this isn't yet more of a Forma sink, but the fact the system looks Intrinsic-like makes me hope it isn't a Forma Sink. Please don't make it one, we have enough as it is. 
 

New Railjack Component: Hull 
 

Eh, okay I guess. I guess it frees 1-3 avionics slots... but you're also proposing to take it from 12 to 8/9 slots with the Plexus system, so this really just makes it another part you have to grind... which isn't 'less grind' either... 
 
Wreckage Cost Changes 
 

Cost reduction is good - I think under the current system, costs are so high that it feels like way too much of an uphill battle to repair even a single part - Titanium especially requires pretty much playing missions in a specific way for the sole purpose of grinding it for how much you need - reducing costs closer to a point where you can organically play and have enough to at least be close to repairing parts is a good step. 
 
Early Adopters 
 

All I'll say here is I think the reward tiers should really have their conditions changed - I enjoy Railjack pretty thoroughly in its current state, and I basically finished with what Railjack had to offer in terms of upgrading/progression, plus played it a bunch just for fun and helping other players once I was done, and I don't think I repaired 30 parts - maybe like 20 at most, and I don't feel like I need to repair more. I feel like the tiers for rewards should be like, half of what they currently are. Or just make the Tier 3 reward for 12 Wreckage Repaired, and Cleared all current Railjack nodes + a Sentient Anomaly at least once. If you've done that, you've cleared all the current content for Railjack and engaged in it enough to repair a few parts - I think that's a fair ask for the highest tier of rewards. 
 
It'd also be neat if you can change the Skin of the Model on the Clan Railjack monument, but that's just a minor suggestion.
 
What’s different in missions?

Regarding the change to interior size, I think that's fine. The huge railjack we have at the moment was mostly fine I think - just the utterly pointless to gameplay Reliquary Drive room maybe need to be locked/removed in gameplay... but equally I understand a lot of people wanted a smaller interior. So yay, this is good I guess. My opinions are pretty much the same on turret positions. Speed upgrade is good. 
 
The energy change for battle/tactical avionics is... eeeeh. I feel like the Seeker Volley battle avionic is brutal as it is, with its power only reigned in by the fact you're restricted to Flux with how much you can spam it, and at the start of the mission (where I find it's most effective), you won't have the resources to craft more of it. I feel like changing these types of avionics to use energy is just goign to encourage yet more Zenurik/Pizza spam which is... not what we need, in my opinion. 
 
Railjack Malfunctions/Hazards 
 

Mostly good, though I feel like the "Cold Hazard locks interactive elements" thing is going to be pretty awful if it kicks you out of the drivers seat so... I'd say maybe don't make it do that... 
 
Unified Damage Types 
 

Nothing bad to say here. More consistency is good. 
 
Node Changes 
 

I wasn't a Gian Point spammer, so I don't really have a horse in this race, not much to say here. 
 
and the rest is new stuff, so I don't really have much feedback to give, I'll leave my opinions there. 
 
I just want to reiterate at the end though: I strongly think the Plexus and Avionics-to-mods change is moving things in a bad direction, and I'd really urge some reconsideration on it. The current system is fine, and the propose system appears to make a relatively simple-to-understand and utilise core system into something entangled with existing systems and existing grind. The proposed changes to these systems sound like they're making them worse, not better.

Edited by MoonYuTsu
Adding a bit to the Plexus section...
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I'm definitely looking forward to see these changes in action.

One question I do have is if there is a location to view stats for wreckage repairs, since there are currently no railjack related statistics on the profile page.

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41 minutes ago, SolidSnake8774 said:

They literally had a show case of railjack initially before it came out, being exactly that. 

They had a showcase of an in-concept feature of the railjack coming into orbit. I do not think they showed seamless transition between orb vallis and space zones. If you have proof that they did I'd love to see it. EDIT: I found the 2018 reveal and yeah I see what you guys mean. I don't think it is "seemless" but it definitely has a type of loading that we haven't seen before with Railjack in addition to the railjack actually being functional on the vallis.

The main feature we haven't seen is the galleon gameplay that was demo'd in the first showcase of Railjack. The one where we chase the lich onto the bridge of the galleon and do the final takedown there.

Edited by Leqesai
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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones

does this mean I get 6 drones or 3 drones?

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53 minutes ago, ModerateConservative said:

Why was not tested using the test servers first? Most of my thoughts towards this dev worsk shop are rather mixed (leaning more towards negative). This would have been a great oppprtunity to test this by using the test servers first. Most of the changes in the dev work shop are head scratchers to say the least, and some changes don't need to be changed at all. To summarize my thoughts in no particular order:

The watering down of railjack is a mistake. It takes the complexity away from it, thus making it less unique (as what it was ment to be originally).

This was not tested on the test servers first. 

The direction of blending "core warframe" and railjack is also a mistake, as core warframe does not blend well with railjack. Railjack was supposed to be differnt from "core warframe" but it really doesn't fit in.

Stop trying to make railjack accessable to new players as it not ready for them to experince it yet. It is npt ment to be the new player experince until at least a new player has a firm understanding of how this game functions, and or even if that players has any interest in this game.

 

There are more thoughts that could be written down but that would be like writting an essay at that point. Maybe another time perhaps.

All of this. Test server needs to be used for this. Railjacks being dumbed down for an audience that never enjoyed it. The fun for me was the complexity and I'm unsure how these changes will mesh, and honestly if I can't play an entire Railjack mission doing nothing but piloting the ship that'll be the end of Railjack for me.

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Nobody else seems to be asking so I'm gonna do it -- are we still going to be able to craft the Dry Dock in our dojos after the updated, or is the room being antiquated like the old dojo rooms?

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10 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

They had a showcase of an in-concept feature of the railjack coming into orbit. I do not think they showed seamless transition between orb vallis and space zones. If you have proof that they did I'd love to see it.

The main feature we haven't seen is the galleon gameplay that was demo'd in the first showcase of Railjack. The one where we chase the lich onto the bridge of the galleon and do the final takedown there.


Right here in 2018 showcase during fortuna. Right out in orb vallis. Transitioned right from orb vallis into space.

Edited by SolidSnake8774
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5 minutes ago, CeruleanHex said:

Nobody else seems to be asking so I'm gonna do it -- are we still going to be able to craft the Dry Dock in our dojos after the updated, or is the room being antiquated like the old dojo rooms?

I don't think they are removing Dry Dock from the dojo. It appears that there is simply a non-clan option at the Relays.

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Just now, Leqesai said:

I don't think they are removing Dry Dock from the dojo. It appears that there is simply a non-clan option at the Relays.

It was never specified and I hope that's not the case. Hope they answer it, somehow, or I guess I'll find out when the update gets pushed.

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Just now, SolidSnake8774 said:


Literally right here in 2018 showcase during fortuna. Right out in orb vallis

Yeah I found that video shortly after posting. The transition between vallis and venus space is still not "seemless" insofar as it is still a transitionary loading sequence but it does look amazing and it is a shame we haven't seen such functionality, I agree.

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2 minutes ago, CeruleanHex said:

It was never specified and I hope that's not the case. Hope they answer it, somehow, or I guess I'll find out when the update gets pushed.

  

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

One last stop before you’re ready to go: the Dry Dock. If you don’t have access to a clan Dry Dock, fear not! Publicly available Dry Docks can be found in the Second and Third tier relays (Saturn - Kronia and Pluto - Orcus relays on PC) on each Platform..

From the main post. 

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1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

 

From the main post. 

Yeah no that's exactly the line I'm referring too. They're saying if you don't have one, they're in relays now and it seems implicit that you can't build them in clans anymore (but any that currently exist will remain). However I'm not sure.

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