Jump to content

Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack


Recommended Posts

Deciding early adopters based on wreckage repairs makes absolutely no sense. I started playing Railjack from day one and have nearly maxed out stats in every component and armament (all before valence fusion was even a thing) and just because I waited to build those best pieces instead of constantly repairing and replacing parts I get the absolute lowest tier while someone else gets to walk away with seven day boosters, umbra forma and a legendary core?

Who thought any of this was a good idea?

  • Like 21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, PlanckZero said:

Deciding early adopters based on wreckage repairs makes absolutely no sense. I started playing Railjack from day one and have nearly maxed out stats in every component and armament (all before valence fusion was even a thing) and just because I waited to build those best pieces instead of constantly repairing and replacing parts I get the absolute lowest tier while someone else gets to walk away with seven day boosters, umbra forma and a legendary core?

Who thought any of this was a good idea?

Yeah I only have like 12 repaired things and I have 500k in each railjack resource and about 1 million dirac

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PlanckZero said:

Deciding early adopters based on wreckage repairs makes absolutely no sense. I started playing Railjack from day one and have nearly maxed out stats in every component and armament (all before valence fusion was even a thing) and just because I waited to build those best pieces instead of constantly repairing and replacing parts I get the absolute lowest tier while someone else gets to walk away with seven day boosters, umbra forma and a legendary core?

Who thought any of this was a good idea?

You have a few days. It takes about 20 minutes to get the random junk armaments to make it to tier 3. I am not saying you make bad points. This was definitely not the best way to handle this. However, the gesture is there, and there is an opportunity to catch it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

You have a few days. It takes about 20 minutes to get the random junk armaments to make it to tier 3. I am not saying you make bad points. This was definitely not the best way to handle this. However, the gesture is there, and there is an opportunity to catch it.

So we know we NEED 30 repaired items? (is it only GUNS, or do shields and other stuff counts?)

Their wording was very poor so I gotta ask here xD

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RyanCooper101 said:

So we know we NEED 30 repaired items? (is it only GUNS, or do shields and other stuff counts?)

Their wording was very poor so I gotta ask here xD

I am assuming the worst and already prepared for it.

No, please don't trust me here. I just assume the worst case scenario is that you need to craft 30 wreckage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I am assuming the worst and already prepared for it.

No, please don't trust me here. I just assume the worst case scenario is that you need to craft 30 wreckage.

Yeah I am not holding you responsible for it xD, its not your task to tell me how everything works in detail

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

You have a few days. It takes about 20 minutes to get the random junk armaments to make it to tier 3. I am not saying you make bad points. This was definitely not the best way to handle this. However, the gesture is there, and there is an opportunity to catch it.

Why on Earth are you making up excuses for crap like this?  If anything the fact that almost anyone could just spend a few days and quickly meet the standard to get those rewards just highlights how utterly pointless repaired wreckage is as a standard for "early adopters"

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PlanckZero said:

Why on Earth are you making up excuses for crap like this?  If anything the fact that almost anyone could just spend a few days and quickly meet the standard to get those rewards just highlights how utterly pointless repaired wreckage is as a standard for "early adopters"

I am not going to complain at a gesture to reward early adopters. This is literally an exception of an update by them doing this. Not only that, but it's an Umbral Forma. Sure, it has problems, like a bad measurement system, but you can just qualify and move on. I really don't see where the fuss is. I am not making an excuse, I am providing a solution to help you. Whether you want to qualify is on you.

DE is doing something really awesome for this update as a whole, and I want to encourage them to do more like this, not showcase the mistakes in their great gesture towards players who played this earlier.

This is like the whole Invati Sekhara deal. Sure, players could get it by just doing any one of the Trials between the announcement and the removal of Trials, but atleast they gave people something.

Edited by Voltage
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came here, like many I am realizing, to figure out what exactly is meant  by wreckage. It seems like it comes down to a few basic questions.

 

1) Is there a way to find out what our current number is?

2) What increases the count? I assume doing a Repair does. How about Valence Fusion?

3) Does anything decrease the count? For example, if I Repair something, then Scrap the thing I repaired, does it still count as a Wreckage I have  completed?

 

I think clear answers to those three questions would have most of us sorted.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that people are now trying to work out the easiest means of spamming cheaply repaired wreckage to get the top tier rewards should tell you how #*!%ed up this is as a metric for actually rewarding "early adopters".

  • Like 17
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to Rebecca for posting the developer log, I combined with the video, I personally feel that the front makes people want to give up, and the back sees a lot of optimized changes. Personal views as well as issues are as follows.

1, about avionics, this current version 2.0 of avionics is not quite enough, but also to reduce again. If I understand correctly is that the personal configuration of the weapons side of the mod, and the ship body completely separate. I wonder if the late friendly?

2. Concerned about the change of avionics equipment to mods, is it all replaced? Is there a reduction? How to compensate for the avionics already there? Dirac core is also the same, in addition to the upgrade grid has been consumed by the current 170,000 Dirac core, all into the endogenous core?

3, on the issue of endogenous power, is also my super concern, this redefinition, is the original level to zero? Or is it all empty? Need to regain?

4, about the crew's ability points, is no matter what you use the crew can complete all the attributes of the full level? The ability points are limited, just like Cyberpunk 2077, you can't level up all the skills, you can only choose what you need.

5, about "Tier 1-3", these three points I do not quite understand, itself the number of wreckage inside the dry dock is limited, wreckage production also retains the strongest, the effect price fusion count? This 30 is based on the current version of 2.0 or 3.0?

6, has finished opening the nodes of the nine heavens do you need to play again?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Player has Completed 1 or more Wreckage or Clan BP: Tier 1

1x Rush Repair Drone
2x Armament Slots
10 x Riven Slivers
Bonus Railjack Mods
- Munitions Vortex
- Battle Forge
- Particle Ram
- Void Hole
- Railjack Resource Bundle

Player has completed at least 12 Wreckage: Tier 2

- Everything in Tier 1
- 2x Rush Repair Drones
- 15 Riven Slivers
- 10,000 Endo
 -7 Day Resource and Affinity Booster
- Railjack Resource Bundle #2

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

 

Could we get some further clarification on this? How is the gear counted? Is there a timeframe that's tracked? 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These early adopter tiers are just a total S#&$ show, between here and redit the majority of the conversation is just people figuring out what they need to do to cheat the system and get the best rewards.  Meanwhile the actual early adopters who didn't find a need to pointlessly repair thirty pieces of wreckage can go #*!% themselves.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Almost all I see are good changes!

 

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Necramechs Become Deployable in all Railjack missions.

Is this a typo or mech in all missions is just scratched out?

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Railjack Malfunctions/Hazards have also received a refresher to no longer directly affect the Railjacks Health or Shields.

This is not only a good change, this is a great change.

Edited by vegetosayajin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PlanckZero said:

These early adopter tiers are just a total S#&$ show, between here and redit the majority of the conversation is just people figuring out what they need to do to cheat the system and get the best rewards.  Meanwhile the actual early adopters who didn't find a need to pointlessly repair thirty pieces of wreckage can go #*!% themselves.

This is always the case for every patch that has some sort of reward for past efforts. It's not unique to this patch, players will always try for an advantage.

That said, more clarification is certainly needed. They likely opted for this way because it's an easy metric to check against, and they didn't maintain individual stats for past efforts.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you going to fix the Spectra Vandal farm?  It is layered behind too many RNG layers with very low percentages in a game mode that, even with these changes, is not part of standard Warframe gameplay. Nor can you buy it with plat. 

 

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 

If you mean wreckage we have repaired and/or fused, I have a major problem with this. Look up my intrinsics and railjack. Railjack missions run.  It's all maxed, and has been for a while.  I have 133k Dirac, mostly from scrapping wreckage. My clan jumped on the dry dock the moment the update dropped, and we all paid in the 6mil credits + resources.  But because I only used MK3 wreckage to upgrade the guns I like and reactor/engines/shield, I may not have repaired/fused 30 pieces, because I didn't need to.  I can comfortably solo the Anomaly; why would I build a gun (with no mastery attached) for the sake of building?  And I can't check to see if I have. So not only am I speaking from a point of knowledge and experience in this game mode, I may also be ineligible, as a first-night-update early adopter. Not good. Please clarify this point.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an early Railjack builder who received the refunds for the first cost reduction and who also appreciated the concept that an older technology in a different "space" (no pun intended) would have different mechanics, I am skeptical about some of the changes.

Individualizing resource pools (including flux energy) is a nice idea to get around those who are inexperienced and burn through resources without realizing it but everyone bringing their own tools to a Railjack introduces other issues, such as a Railjack being at a disadvantage should those with better equipment leave the Railjack for the away mission (or just quit or are dc'd from the mission).

As others have noted, I'm also not clear on the refunds.  I have a well-kitted Railjack but was very efficient and patient in my repairing so probably don't qualify for the top-tier refund.  It does not appear that patience (and hard work) is a virtue in this case.  Then again, I'm not fretting about the refund.  It's nice but, again as a long-time and efficient and patient player, I generally am not lacking in most resources.

I like that the way it is now requires teamwork and communication and, well, sharing.  This has led to some problems now and then but those could be resolved other ways, such as only allowing the host to do certain things, or specifically allow certain members to do these problematic things (such as Refine or navigate to a node higher than the Railjack's capability).

Still, I enjoy Railjack and am looking forward to seeing how this shakes out.  As an engineer I know it is really hard to balance out all the demands that come in, often conflicting, and work within other limits.  I also know this won't be the end of the story.  Keep at it DE!

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, shieldb said:

It would be real nice to have a toggle for this functionality once it's been unlocked - I wouldn't always want the aim assist kicking in (esp with the additional heat), but intrinsics are also tied to mastery points.

This, I don't know how they managed to make the worst intrinsic in the game even worse. *Slowclap*

To clarify, there's a lot to like here in this workshop, and only a few things I view as mistakes but, wow, this one is just realllllly far off the mark, I mean wow.

Edited by Sylonus
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, ColmCorb said:

Do the wreckage has to be tier 3 or it can be tier 1? Does it count if they are repeated parts?

I can assume the following to satisfy "completed Wreckages":

  • Any versions, from Mk I to Mk III. Sigma variants will not count as they are not Wreckage you find; you made them yourself in the Dry Dock Research.
  • Both Wreckage fully repaired and Wreckage that were used in a Valence Transfer should count towards the total of the "completed Wreckage".
  • Wreckage refers to the House variants of both Components (Engines, Shield Arrays, and Reactors) and Armaments (except Ordinance).

But again and indeed, someone from DE needs to clarify this quickly to remedy the confusion.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

One other important change to note about the energy economy - as part of the transition from Railjack-based Avionics to player-based Harnesses, Battle/Tactical abilities will now be fueled by Warframe energy, and Flux Energy will be completely removed from the game (any Avionics that relate to it will be converted to Endo). This allows players with existing tools for Energy generation to better integrate those tools into regular Railjack gameplay, further intertwining the two sides of the game. Now - let’s talk about Reactors. They exist to give you Avionics Capacity, and Flux Energy. Both of those things are now removed, so the new role of Reactors is to provide Power Strength, Range, or Duration buffs to Railjack Battle Avionics being used aboard the ship!

This change makes sense in terms of moving all the Railjack resources from shared to individual reserves, but there are some massive practical problems. The energy economy for warframes is one of the most klunky, awkward systems in this entire game; it badly needs a dramatic update, something along the lines of "scrap the entire thing and start over." It is therefore a poor foundation on which to build. Leveraging the energy system for Railjack abilities will be awkward at best and infuriating at worst. Here are a few pain points I foresee:

  • In terms of spending energy, if the Warframe I choose to bring to Railjack missions needs energy to be effective, then by spending that energy on Railjack powers I risk not having it available if we are boarded, or if I need to leave the ship. Since boarding parties and needing to leave the ship are often unpredictable, this will not be fun to balance.
  • The main means of regaining energy is the Energy Orbs which drop from defeated enemies. How will that work at all when I am inside a Railjack? Do fighters even drop energy orbs? Can the pilot collect energy orbs with the Railjack? If he does, who gets that energy? Just the pilot, or anyone in a pilot or gunner station, or everyone on the ship?
  • If energy orbs do work for Railjack, we're at the mercy of the pilot to collect them, and I don't remember Railjacks having a very big vacuum range.
  • If energy orbs do not work, or if the pilot is not thinking about collecting them, or if none drop because randomness, then we're going to need to pop in and out of our seats to recharge. Energy Siphon does not provide energy fast enough to be useful, and most of the other methods of energy restoration require you to be in control of your warframe. We will not be able to activate them while piloting or gunning, we will need to leave our station, activate them, and then return to our station. This is not fun or convenient, especially for the pilot. This will also incentivize coordinated teams to have one player to stand next to the pilot and juice them continuously, which I think is a step in the wrong direction.

This change will incentivize players to use warframes which do not use energy, so that they have that energy to spend on their Railjack abilities. It will make players feel like they must carry a large supply of Squad Energy Restores, or must use the Zenurik focus school, or must use Helminth to infuse Protea's Dispensary ability onto their warframe, if they want to be effective in Railjack. These pressures are already present and unwelcome in the rest of the game; we should not be importing them into Railjack.

May I suggest, you already have a better system available to you. Take a page from Lavos' design book, and make all the Railjack abilities work on cooldowns. At the very least, change them to cooldowns temporarily, and switch them back to using energy after you've fixed the warframe energy system.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warframe-based energy for Railjack abilities sound like a pretty big mistake that'll remove pretty much all form of difficulty from the mode. PLEASE DO NOT PROCEED WITH THIS CHANGE.

Edited by Vali
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...