Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[Tehcaro]

Note the following is aimed to be constructive.

As one of the masochists who was able to solo veil proxima on the release version of railjack, I have concerns over increasing the speed of the rail jacks (blink) even further and what the armour/hull levels are changing to.

Then there is the question of anyone getting to play the game mode, as the nuking with Munitions Vortex, Void hole and Tether needs brought into check. Not having the pilots shoot is a good step.

With the pre-update current much easier railjack game balance you do not need a squad or command intrinsic, if you do have a squad and they have not just joined to go afk they should fly on to the other mission objectives as otherwise they would have nothing todo apart from watch the fireworks (and make ammo).

I liked the original harder to kill ships, it felt like a battle but the time to kill was just too long and the grinner healing bubbles where much stronger. The rewards to time required where not there. I worry that the demoing of the new changes with a base excal means that you are expecting MR0,1,2 to join missions now meaning what was left of the the game modes difficulty is gone. The orphix mode I assume is locked behind the unlock of the operator and deimos intro quest.

 

If there is one thing to fix before releasing the update it's -

Gunnery Rank 10 - "Aim snaps turret to lead indicator (lock-on lasts much longer than before, with small added cost to weapon heat) "

This is not good and add a sour pill to the planned changes. This about to repeat the mistake of Void Radiance only this time with the cost of mastery points as no one should level it. Intrinsic's should be improvements and not come with a Nerf. Anyone who has leveled intrinsic's that far doesn't even need the aim help, however having to leave MR points on the table to min-max is not a nice feeling at MR30+.

[lhardy]

What will be the new endo value for Avionic mods??

 

Just to know if It would be good to upgrade copies of existing avionics that cost less Dirac than endo value for the most expensive ones, like hyperflux.

[Kitty1709]

Please DE put good effort into the crew ai. Alot of ppl including me use lower quality PCs and have issues with this content in groups leading us to soloa lot of the more graphic and processor strenuous content. If the AI crew is able to help out decently enough then we will have no problem clearing high level content as we've done before. The issue with railjack was just the sheer mass of what needs to be done and that it takes a minimum of two players to keep ships alive in higher content.

I love this game it's amazing the work you've done, but please for this content if your incorporating something like corpus liches into it, put as much effort into the details and features as you do the helper AI. For some of us that can make or break this coming update.

[Eklectus]

Early Adopter shouldn't mean no-lifer. Like, seriously, who other than completionists got even close to repairing 30 wreckages? I've been interacting with Railjack since Rising Tides and only had to repair like 5-7 pieces of equipment in that whole time.

[spudster888.]

Sort of a shame the next update is for the worst part of the game. I'm, in the camp of abandon railjack its not warframe. Granted, i hope those who like this enjoy it, i'll just be waiting until update 30 to bother with new stuff. 

[(NSW)Mbek]

32 minutes ago, Voltage said:

How would you measure this without being incredibly exclusive from most "early adopters" though?

Would you rather just get the usual update treatment that gives you a thank you and a pat on the back while they devalue your progression?

I can't really think of a way to measure "early adopter" besides Intrinsics or a date on progression.

Yes, intrinsic level is the easiest solution, real early adopters most likely already had their intrinsics maxed or at least high enough to be eligible for Tier 3 at his point, latecomers can still get it but need to do extra grind since the nerf to intrinsic point gain.

[..E.luna..Ai..]

Can we just leave avionics where it exists and simply make 3 turrets for crew that controls sort of remote drones that can fly around railjack, but kinda snapped to it..  With separated from pilot's abilities, like stun and attract enemies. And with ability to recharge railjack modular shields, like a cube's sides.. Make that drones able to be destroyed and repaired with omni by 4-10 damaged onboard "hazards", create navigation useful stuff to them and.. well.. to just make it interesting for all crew members.. 






And can moderators please clear this topic from all scrap freebie discussions?





 

[apophis_dd]

@[DE]Rebecca

There seems to be a lot of confusion over the wreckage rewards. Can the specific stat that will be used to allocate Tier be placed into the Profile Stat list please, so that we do not have to sit and wonder and worry whether we have done enough or not, whether it includes valenced components and Sigma components?

eg.

"Railjack Stats

Repaired Wreckage:   31"

[isti0258]

6 minutes ago, apophis_dd said:

@[DE]Rebecca

There seems to be a lot of confusion over the wreckage rewards. Can the specific stat that will be used to allocate Tier be placed into the Profile Stat list please, so that we do not have to sit and wonder and worry whether we have done enough or not, whether it includes valenced components and Sigma components?

eg.

"Railjack Stats

Repaired Wreckage:   31"

How about they just change the requirement for the rewards to something that actually represents the players. like instrincs, or just give the t3 to everyone who put up with the buggy mess that railjack is.

[Snake]

15 hours ago, MrSigy said:

Tbh the only thing I want is to be able to remove or scrap the standard "Sigma" items and the default Pulsar/Apoc/Tycho Seeker.
They are a nuisance in my eyes that cannot be removed and burned into my retina.
Please allow us to remove them.

Also please specify if 

 

15 hours ago, isti0258 said:

Any clarification to this? For example i have only repaired like 8-10 wreckage, but my railjack is maxed (played from the start, but didnt waste resources on lower tiers, so scrapped everything to not take up space, cant blame me for min-maxing), Do i not get the tier 3 pack? 
Seems like a really good upgrade to the game , but this part need a second look.

 

16 hours ago, (XBOX)JavaScriptX said:

Kinda confused by this, what exactly are these Wreckage that someone completes.

 

15 hours ago, Fire2box said:

I assume repairing parts to use on railjacks but with the term "wreckage" to me that also suggests scrapping it for divracs or whatever it was might of count. Because's honestly no one needed to repair 30 items to use on their railjack and after they took away instant repair drones for plat well yeah... 

 

15 hours ago, android3162 said:

I think it means repairing a wreckage you picked up in a mission

 

15 hours ago, shieldb said:

Some clarification around this would be swell! I'm in the category of folks that feel like they've "finished" the current iteration of RJ (Finished the RJ star chart, maxed out all the intrinsics, all T3 parts/weapons on my railjack that have been valence fusion'd to at least 90% rolls), but I'm not sure I've actually repaired 30 wreckage since valence fusion allows you to use unrepaired components. The initial "repair the wreckage" costs versus resource acquisition had me queueing up with other folks to go straight to T3 parts and not really bother with building T1/T2 stuff.

 

15 hours ago, Voltage said:

What does "complete 30 wreckage" mean? I have 10 components & Armaments (because I have the optimal of each), and 5 wreckage. Do I need 30 crafted?

 

15 hours ago, DragonsRain said:

yea so, how do I know how much wreckage I have build?
I have this nagging feeling I am at around 27 or so..

 

15 hours ago, NekroArts said:

I would like clarification on this too. What's current is vague and my cause players to start farming now, repair them as soon as possible, and use platinum to expand their Built inventory (if they perceived it this way). At base players have 8 built-component spaces and each purchase to expand cost 12p and gives 2 slots. So to get 30 built-component spaces will require 132p.

 

15 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

For the Wreckage in general, does this mean any tier of Wreckage counts?

So say we aren't sure how many Wreckage items we've made already, does that mean we can just build a bunch of Mark 1 Wreckage and it would still count? As it is still technically Wreckage.

Also, would there be any way to see how much Wreckage we've actually crafted and put into items? Just something small, like a little number next to the items name to see how many times it's been Valenced, for example?

For Clarity -  Completed Wreckage --- Is called Scrap Components and Armaments - In the RJ Menu.

Scrap Wreckage is just uncompleted.

You need to have bought extra slots to have up to 30 Completed Wreckage.

I have 35 because I Completed Wreckage/Scrap Components and Armaments from both Found in game and T3 Dojo Research + a few Regular from Dojo.

[(XBOX)DS Monkfish]

While you're at  it, DE, pleeeeeeease add a 3D radar/miniap to Railjack to replace the vague arrows moving around the egdes of the screen. Go look at how Elite:Dangerous does it if you need to :)

 

 

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

The compensation rewards are weird, nothing there matters, it's like i finished the race and your making me start it again like i was a novice, what I want are 2 forma bundle because your making me use them to achieve what I already had, 1 of each reactor maxed values because I sold allot of them i kept what was actually good, umbra forma just because  and an unique item railjack skin.

[QuatroLT]

hello i wanned ask, will you be able to get early adopters rewards after the patch , i mean complete them then ?

 

[master_of_destiny]

Now that I've had an evening without playing the game, let me ask a few more questions that need answers.

 

1) You told us that using the same base damage types as the core gameplay was impossible, because at the time slash was the only viable damage type.  As of today, it's still heavily favored....but suddenly you're doing a complete turn-around.  Why?  The explanation seems to be to harmonize the names....but you fought us about this upon release.  I'm....less than enthusiastic that you've thought this through entirely.  I'm also entirely frustrated that after a year and change of this you've finally walked this back and are selling it to us as if it's the best thing since sliced bread.  We, the community, stated this was goofy upon release where someone had to go out and create a chart displaying the 1:1 name change relationship.

 

2) So....what exactly do reactors do now?  Before they were a balance of flux energy and avionics capacity.  People chose one as "the best" because the capacity for avionics was highest.  Now your flux is warframe based....so what reason is there to to have anything?  The Plexus must be influenced by the reactor....right?  Again, you've introduced us a system with about 10% of its mechanics fully settled and we're two weeks out from this going live.  Please, stop.  Do a bloody test server in two weeks, then tack on another two weeks for feedback time, revision, and an actual stable release.  Railjack has already been bloodied by miserable release, we don't need it to get worse.

 

3) Speaking of, you've now got unlimited boost.  Fantastic.  I actually like the no shooting while boosting thing....but I'm at a loss.  There's now no reason to choose an engine for boost or speed.  You simply plug in the boost value and regular value, and figure out which provides greater total speed.  No reason for the balance, simply a mathematically best option.  Oh boy.

 

4) Let's talk intrinsic levels.  You kept the insanity of Railjack influencing archwing....because.  You've added a forced Railjack to get access to Necramechs in mission.  Fine.  What this communicates is not integration.  What this communicates is that we are forced to play a game mode to unlock basic features....oh and by the way you're also handicapped on performance too....because everybody loves hiding bonuses behind miserable grinds....that we cannot do now....because you don't want people to obtain enough resources to unlock features on day one....because that then allows us to ignore the otherwise frustratingly grindy systems.  Joy.  Lessons not learned.

 

5) I'll end on this, for the sake of brevity.  "You can now just buy a Railjack instead of doing the free-to-play mission."  You can still buy the avionics packs.  I....really hope you understand exactly what this is communicating to the community.  There are plenty of people who label this as farm frame, and pay to win by virtue of inventory slots.  I'm less than enthusiastic about that, but when your design choices are like this I can't really argue in good faith.  I'm seeing a "pay now" button, that's locking away features.  You just pay some platinum to avoid what once was a multiple day wait timer with nutty resource costs.  Then you skip RNG farming for avionics, by paying for a defined pack.  You then skip the grind to get intrinsics by buying an affinity booster.  You then play the barest minimum number of missions, and get the items from core warframe unlocked.  My motivation for engaging with Raijack then is defined not as a desire for Railjack, but as plowing through the roadblocks erected to prevent using my stuff in the regular game without a penalty.  Do you get it yet?  Let me make this clear, I don't like Railjack because you're using it to hold the other bits in the game for ransom.  If you do this you start out fighting players for engagement, instead of asking them to join you in a fun new experiment.  I cannot believe after a year and change this hasn't yet sunk in...but it really does point to DE not understanding how people engage with this game.

 

 

Let me re-iterate.  USE A TEST SERVER BEFORE PUSHING THIS OUT THE DOOR.  You have already spent the better part of 16 months fighting with the community over your vision of Railjack, and our desire to play fun content.  We realize you're too stubborn to let this game mode get twilighted, which is fine.  What isn't fine is being 3 complete revisions into this, and still being too stubborn to do a full play test.  Please, learn from your mistakes.  At this point I know it's too much to ask, but not screwing this up is not really a request.  It's an ultimatum, because if this is bad there's not going to be a community anymore.

4 frames in 2020 became 2 (Protea and Lavos).  Railjack was pushed to late Q1 2021.  The Corpus Liches were pushed farther than that.  Call of Tempestarii is being pushed farther than that.  I know scope changes....but so far the stupid person in the room believes you.  That's frustrating, because you've had basically a decade to learn how to maintain workflow in a single company.  I spent last week defending you, because somebody asked for you to admit that things were bad, and this week I have to wade through a PR statement missing so much critical information it's a joke.  Please DE, don't f*** it up.  

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

40 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

Early Adopter shouldn't mean no-lifer. Like, seriously, who other than completionists got even close to repairing 30 wreckages? I've been interacting with Railjack since Rising Tides and only had to repair like 5-7 pieces of equipment in that whole time.

That’s only tier 3. Tier 1 and 2 aren’t hard to reach.

[Snake]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

That’s only tier 3. Tier 1 and 2 aren’t hard to reach.

Indeed - But you need to buy extra slots to have 30

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, 5nak3Doctor said:

Indeed - But you need to buy extra slots to have 30

And that’s why it’s rewards are enticing

[isti0258]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

That’s only tier 3. Tier 1 and 2 aren’t hard to reach.

I've played Rj from release, and im not even eligible for t2 even though i have a maxed out Rj/maxed intrinsics, because i didnt waste resources or plat for slots, if they relly think that having 30 wreckages means you are an eraly adapter, well they are reeeeeally disconected with the community.

[Eklectus]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

That’s only tier 3. Tier 1 and 2 aren’t hard to reach.

Your point? I am, by definition, as early as an adopter can get, yet the way the detection is currently set up, don't even pass for T2. A legendary core and Umbral Forma isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

[Snake]

1 minute ago, isti0258 said:

I've played Rj from release, and im not even eligible for t2 even though i have a maxed out Rj/maxed intrinsics, because i didnt waste resources or plat for slots, if they relly think that having 30 wreckages means you are an eraly adapter, well they are reeeeeally disconected with the community.

It took me an Hour on Earth to get the rest for 22 completed.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

2. Since Orphix Venom, a lucrative Arcane farming method, will now be a permanent mission type available, will Eidolon rewards see any kind of a rework in order to keep up? Eidolons should still be worth doing, as they are gated by a time limit whereas Orphix Venom is not. I would suggest changing Eidolons so they drop 3 Arcanes each rather than 1 as a means of making the two a tad more equal.

ROFL, you have to be kidding, would you like some free platinum and an umbra forma as well?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, isti0258 said:

I've played Rj from release, and im not even eligible for t2 even though i have a maxed out Rj/maxed intrinsics, because i didnt waste resources or plat for slots, if they relly think that having 30 wreckages means you are an eraly adapter, well they are reeeeeally disconected with the community.

I made no such claim that you’re an early adopter only if you’ve built 30 wreckage. You’re considered an early adopter if you built any wreckage or clan BP. Also just because you haven’t made 12 wreckage doesn’t mean it’s not easy.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

3 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

Your point? I am, by definition, as early as an adopter can get, yet the way the detection is currently set up, don't even pass for T2. A legendary core and Umbral Forma isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

DE seems to leave the highest tier for those that have spent of mildly significant amount of plat on RJ.

[__jag__]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

and an unique item railjack skin

That would be so much nicer than another trophy to put in my orbiter!

[Mortico]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Roland_Snow:

After having finally read through all 16 preceding pages of this forum I think I am finally ready to provide some feedback.  I'll go in order of the headers used in the original post by Rebb.

1.  What will happen on login?
More Accessible:
I do not see any problems here. This will definitely help draw more people to the game mode. Honestly, the cost for a fully built Railjack seems super generous compared to how much Warframes cost in the Market. I was expecting way higher but that actually seems about right.
Avionics to Mods:
I can see why you would want to rename Avionics to Mods for consistency but the current avionics screen is simply amazing right now. Simplifying here would only ruin a great system in-game. Using our reactors to calibrate just how we wanted to play and having the avionics grid supercharge our avionics just felt amazing and perfect for railjacks.
Meet the 'PLEXUS':
This seems like a complete wrong move for railjack. The plexus adds further complication to a system that is running perfectly right now. Having a harness that modifies a railjack so drastically completely removes any feeling of having OUR own ship. Instead it feels more like some hybrid monster that belongs to no one anymore. This entire section just feels like change for the sake of change instead of improving anything existing. Aura slots are a nice touch but again not really needed and feels out of place with what we already have. My one positive about the plexus itself is the multiple config slots. Having that with the avionics grid would be amazing but otherwise avionics should be left as is.
Side note for this section, I only really noticed that fourth terminal being empty last month and I'm really happy for its utility.
Dirac to Endo:
Never really understood why dirac had its own name when it served as basically endo anyway. The conversion is definitely appreciated but again, please leave the avionics grid as is. Not only does that UI fit a space naval aesthetic perfectly, but it offered far greater flexibility or designs since it was free from any polarities or forma requirements.
Intrinsics 2.0:
I am all for the revision of intrinsics for more added impact on our capabilities as railjack crewmates. Kudos to whomever was designing this section.
Command Intrinsic:
Gotta say I am super excited to finally have my own crew. I play almost all of the game solo (especially Empyrean) so having a dedicated group of npcs to bond with will be great. Having npc slots in place of Tenno slots makes perfect sense to me. Combined with the video from Rebb, I assume that crew slots can have Elite Crewmates (i.e. liches) equitable in either one of the 3 normal slots or with their own special slot. Both seem fair and worthwhile to me. The small touches of syndicate allegiance affecting contract costs is amazing too.
New Railjack Component: Hull:
Makes sense to use that even without touching the avionics UI/mechanics right now (again, please do not convert that to the standard modding screen and system). Could provide some nice utility for customization and free up what otherwise feels like mandatory avionics to stay alive when we could have more added utility.
Wreckage Cost Changes:
Reducing cost is nice as it means we can experiment more readily with all our options.
Early Adopters:
Great to see consideration for people like myself who fell in love with Empyrean straight out of the gate (finished my railjack first day it was possible and immediately started playing). The clan railjack monument should probably be awarded to players to place on their orbiters though since clans do come and go for some people. I assume the various tiers will have their requirements clarified or converted to intrinsics so I am not worried about that. The resources are nice to get, especially the free slots for the new weapons we get to play with. T3 rewards seem pretty outstanding to me.
Matchmaking Changes:
All positives here, especially with Rebb mentioning that they will be getting the Scarlet Spear treatment allowing you to choose for host or client queueing.

2. What's Different in Missions?
In favor of moving turrets to line up with the pilot's POV. As a gunner you cannot really hit anything as the pilot will naturally target the largest groups of enemies first. I will miss the larger interior of my railjack, but that room was essentially just filler whereas every other room held a distinct purpose for the ship. Really happy with the movement QoL, all perfect changes there. Separate ammo stockpiles feels great for revolite, but why dome charges? Revolite is seems to be stored on our person so that makes sense, but aren't dome charges and missiles stored in the railjack itself for use? Maybe have the turrets use their own missile supplies at the most but shared ammunition (not revolite for clarity) does not make internal sense with railjacks, at least to me. If someone could help me understand please do.
My biggest issue with this section is the conversion to Warframe-sourced energy. To be blunt, this makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. Flux energy perfectly suits the role it was designed for and does not need to be changed. Adding Warframe stat dependencies makes the ship's reactor almost entirely moot with what it should do. The void (thumb) drive powers our Void jumps, that reactor powers literally everything else. Why would Old War tech require external batteries to be fully utilized? Sure they were used almost exclusively by Tenno, but that is still just a bad engineering practice on the Orokin's behalf to make such a requirement. As a gameplay mechanic, this will do several things, none of which are positive. One, newer players will have an extremely difficult time maintaining energy and will rarely be able to use abilities. Two, more seasoned players with access to later game gear will just spam all their abilities without consequence due to having nigh-infinite energy. Third but most certainly not last, gameplay will slow down as pilots are forced to exit their seats to restock energy. Kind of already happens in solo sometimes when rebuilding flux energy but in squads this will only slow things down and remove a core feature for Engineer players.
Railjack Malfunctions/Hazards:
Makes total sense and the gameplay immersion will increase since they were just EHP losses or DoT effects. My one concern is with catastrophic hull breaches and hull ruptures. Catastrophic hull breaches should stay as they are or there really isn't much of a fail state, almost completely removing the risk if playing. Sure people don't like tp die or fail missions, but this makes Empyrean far too easy. In my opinions catastrophic hull breaches should stay as is and hull ruptures should take their proposed effect on top of what they currently do.
Unified Damage Types:
Makes sense, never really learned what the new damage types did anyway. I just used the guns with my favorite fire rate and overall feel.
Node Changes:
Renaming to better reflect what is actually in those nodes is great. I assume you guys will add more variety over time as well so I am not concerned about that in the slightest. My only request is that we are able to select mission nodes that are just original Empyrean in design with a greater focus on using our railjacks. When I play railjack, I go there for that content, not to play more of the core game. Having both options will make both sides happy and I really hope we get those nodes eventually if they are not in 29.10.

3. What Will Keep Me Playing?
I really hope you are diversifying mission nodes and not just using Empyrean as starter objectives to core game modes. Sure that's fine for some of the available Empyrean nodes and is even a great choice for merging content, but please leave some nodes as entirely railjack focused. Small POIs are fine as they are right now but my biggest attraction to the system is flying my our spaceship.
Side note to those who seemed concerned over only getting arcanes. DE mentioned in a Devstream that we will also be getting vaulted relics as stable drops for these tables so do not worry too much about new rewards here.
Overall I am excited to see what these new game modes could be like and am really hoping for incorporation of archwing mission objectives into core railjack similar to POI slots in current build.

4. What Comes Next?
Not much here on 29.10 so I will just skim over it. Void Storms sound very interesting, I can just imagine them hitting Corpus and Grineer fighters to create Corrupted variants. 

In conclusion, the vast majority of the changes look great, but some are just reducing the identity that Empyrean has and our sense of ownership over our railjacks. My biggest disagreements are changing the functionality and UI of avionics to just another standard mod menu, using Warframe energy for railjack abilities, and the potential loss of a focused game mode just so it can incorporate more of the standard mission types. I want to go all in and love this update, but the plexus system is just ruining it for me.

hey :]

Totally agreeing with you on every point !!

I thought it would be a great idea to seperate the gunner-specific, battle and tactical avionics to a personal grid but "everything" just seems wrong...

There are railjack parts that depend on a low shield value .. and if everyone equips maxima/anodeCell that would hurt a lot .. and you're forced to do piloty stuff if you pick pilot avionics in your PLEXUS but what if another (random) player also has those mods equipped ? now one player is useless for the whole mission :/

It especially hurts to not be able to fill in every slot of the current grid even with the best reactor .. if we put the battle, tactical and gunner avionics on a seperate grid or even in a mod-like-UI, I could live with it, even more so if that makes more capacity for the intrinsic avionics(without the turret ones).

I absolutely can not accept railjack using warframe energy .. doesn't make any sense as you pointed out. the reactor should increase regen rate of flux combined with the engineer refilling the energy manually.

 

I'm also quite sad that the crew members are only syndicate operatives(besides lichs and queenpins).. I'd like to see a solaris guy on my ship doing engineery stuff :/

 

I hope our feedback reaches DE .. and I hope that the energy systems will at least be seperate!

Thanks for reading.

Stay healthy!