Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[-Augustus-]

1 hour ago, (PSN)chaniusul said:

mmm no cert is speed like 1 week.

Yeah, a WEEK...not instantly, and even that is assuming no cert delays (often are) and that it passes cert first time (often doesn't). You can't actually fail to grasp what that means, can you?

[RezMyDeadbody]

On 2021-03-10 at 4:19 PM, Kaotyke said:

3% of all Steam players, I bet.

ALL Steam players.

True.  That's the only metric available to us.  But regardless, the simple fact is that when people come to a Forum asking for help with a technical issue, there are three possible responses:
1: Realize you have nothing helpful to say, and remain silent.
2: Realize that you have a solution, and share it.
3: Act like a total tool and start bragging about how big your ePeen™ is because you didn't have that problem, so therefore it cannot be a valid issue.

We have a discouragingly high number of forum members who always seem to decide to go straight for solution #3.

[(PSN)chaniusul]

il y a une heure, -Augustus- a dit :

Yeah, a WEEK...not instantly, and even that is assuming no cert delays (often are) and that it passes cert first time (often doesn't). You can't actually fail to grasp what that means, can you?

 

cert and delay of update its totaly different . get better information before opening your mouth.

[-Augustus-]

Just now, (PSN)chaniusul said:

 

cert and delay of update its totaly different . get better information before opening your mouth.

Best of luck in your crusade against the realities of console, Tenno 😘

[(PSN)chaniusul]

il y a une heure, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 a dit :

Releasing updates cost money

ok i know this but why D.E wait 2 big update?  knowing that they have never done this since i started playing 

 

 

[Kaotyke]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)chaniusul said:

ok i know this but why D.E wait 2 big update?  knowing that they have never done this since i started playing 

 

 

"Wait 2 big update"? Dude, PC is going to Beta Test the U29.10, when U30 comes, consoles will get U29.10 + 30 at once. U30 is Void Storms and Quest. U29.10 is a change in mechanics, balance changes will be analyzed, changed if needed and bugs fixed.

Certing takes about 1 week after they send the build to Certification. Imagine if they send 29.10.1 to Cert, then the next day they must send 29.10.2 and so forth? Its a waste of time for both DE and the people doing the Certification who will have to drop the previous testing to do the new one.

Unless you are talking "2" as in "to" because in this case they have always done PC first then Consoles later with EXCEPTIONS: Railjack Launch and Deimos.

[(PSN)chaniusul]

il y a 10 minutes, Kaotyke a dit :

Wait 2 big update

sorry  error. i meant why skipped a big update?

yeah pc first and console after yeah yeah but he never skipp content update.

[RaphaelVehuiah]

For the most part, everything I'm reading in the Workshop elicit the following responses, from most common to least:
A) Definitely Positive: a lot of the workshop sounds great
B) Cautiously Optimistic: Some things seem good, but might need tweaks
C) Difficult to tell until I can try it in-game: Theory vs. Practice is sometimes very different, so it's hard to know about some changes without seeing them in practice.

However, there are some exceptions to my overall positive take away, but before even starting on those, I'd like to make clear...
Any suggestions I make are just that. There are many ways to achieve most goals, and these are mostly just examples as a way to illustrate the kind of lines I'm thinking along.
It's entirely possible there are better ways to achieve the goals I'm suggesting, and I'd be happy to see those solutions instead, if those goals are even ones that need to be met.

That said, these are my thoughts so far, based on the Workshop post:

The exceptions, where I have concerns, are basically the following three things:

• Energy Economy (unsurprisingly, as it's already an incredibly heated topic):
  Rather than just say I'm unconvinced, I thought I might put forward one possible compromise between the original system and the system described in the Workshop, in case it might spark something. 
  However, I'll put that in its own section, because I couldn't find a way to be concise on that point
• Plexus upgrading. I really don't want to have to repeatedly forma and re-level it, especially because that mechanic is one of my least favourite forms of grind in the game already.
  I would prefer something like being able to spend Endo (since Dirac is gone) to upgrade the Plexus' mod slots like the Avionics grid, and have that give a flat reduction to the drain of the Plexus mods (as opposed to increasing their effects, like the Avionics grid did).
  • E.g. If you've got a 9 Drain Plexus Mod and it's slotted into a slot that's been upgraded to Rank 3, it would only drain 6 from the Plexus' capacity.
• Railjack core stats. 
  While the Hull component is a good step by the sounds of it, the Plexus Aura slot is concerning based on the Aura that was shown.
  The Railjack's Health, Armour, Shields, Speed and so on should not be reliant on the crew's Plexus loadouts.
  If the Aura's affect this, it should be a useful but completely non-essential bonus.
  To be honest, these stats should not be reliant on the Plexus at all.
  Things like the old Hull Weave Avionic should not be part of what the Plexus affects, buff the Ship's component's stats instead.

Those are my primary concerns.

Before the Energy Economy talk, a few more miscellaneous thoughts that came to mind due to the Workshop post.

• - The Railjack Owner's Battle and Tactical Avionics should be available to everyone (in addition to the ones they have equipped, giving everyone other than the Owner access to six total) for two reasons:
  • Gives it more of a sense that it's the host's personal Ship, to which other players are bringing their own capabilities to make it even better
  • Players that are new to Railjack have an easier time starting out, because they still have something to use, until they have Avionics abilities of their own, and would give higher rank players an easier time teaching newer players how things work
• A nice option would be for the owner to be able to elect to have both of the non-pilot turrets be the same gun, or choose to have two different guns
• Battle Avionics should be usable from Forward Artillery Seat, so it can be used as a de facto Tactical Station (think Lt. Worf's bridge station in Star Trek TNG), where they can activate Tactical Avionics, Battle Avionics and deploy fire support for team members when they aren't firing the Artillery
• Seeing the Plexus mods separated into sections brought to mind the thought that...
  It might actually be nice if Warframes had that kind of separation, where there's a section just for Ability Modifiers, a section for core stats, another for Utility...
  It would mean a lot of rethinking, but I feel like there's potential there to loosen the constraints of current builds, and allow space for non-meta mods that are fun or interesting in addition to the important mods that the meta basically requires.
• Another thought that tied to trying to keep individual player's Ships have their own identities was, would it be possible to have the Ship Component bonuses/modifiers equip-able like Arcanes.
  Where a Component has two slots, and players can pay... let's say 50% of the resource cost of the component to reverse engineer that modifier to make it equippable to other components of the same category?
  I am not saying to bring over the "consume extra copies to upgrade" thing from arcanes, in fact, please don't do that.
  Just that it'd be nice to feel like we can tune our own machines a bit, for that little personal touch.
  Could tie into some of what I'm putting in the Avionic Energy section, so I'll add some elaboration there.

Plexus/Flux Energy Suggestions + Further Elaboration on Component Modifier Stats (long enough it's its own section, Spoilered out so it can be collapsed)

Spoiler

This is all just one possible way of avoiding the Railjack's energy being shackled to the Warframe's energy economy:

• Plexus Energy separate like a Necramech or Archwing. While onboard the Railjack, energy regenerates at a rate based on the Ship's Reactor Component.
• One proposal for reworked Reactor stats could be:
  •     A bonus to Flux Capacity applied to all crew's Plexus capacitors
  •     Previously mentioned passive energy regen (Option A)
  •     A Multiplier to how much Flux is generated per crafting (Option B)
  •     The bonuses to Power Stats mentioned in the Workshop (Option C)
• While the Flux Capacity bonus would remain agnostic and be more tied to the Tier of Reactor, the other three stats would be the specialty of one of the manufacturing Houses.
  In this regard, I would personally aim to move toward focusing less at trade offs, and more just trying to facilitate the Railjack owner tuning their Railjack toward the kind of Crew that they tend to run.
• So, instead of each house being good at one stat and mediocre or bad in the others, it would be more along the line that each house would have one stat that they can have a bonus to one stat of an additional 50-100% compared to the baseline for that tier.
  (Heck, go one better and make the Sigma components essentially slightly better than the baseline in all categories, but not allow for Component Modifiers at all, and to not be upgradable through Valence Fusion the way the others can.)
• As an example of why each of the three House variants might be the preference of the Railjack's owner:
  • Passive Energy Generation over time (option A) would means the Railjack can run with less need for a specialist engineer to generate energy, so the focus can instead be on operating the turrets and repairs.
    This'd be agreeable for soloing, especially when you're piloting, so you don't need to reassign NPC Crew much, or at all if you're lucky.
    Even better would be if there's an assignment setting for an NPC to focus on Repair and keeping the torpedoes stocked, and to ignore crafting Flux.
    This way, you can have two NPC Crew on guns (potentially one on the Artillery if they're allowed to do that), and the third crew member just makes sure you don't need to stop the ship and restock.
  • Multiplier to Flux (Option B) would be useful if you do run with a Engineering Specialist
    (Whether the player themselves, a friend/clanmate or even a particularly good NPC Crew Engineer)
    The Engineer in this case could get even more mileage out of their Intrinsic bonuses, so that instead of needing to tie up several forges for just Flux production when that's running low, they can give a big restore to the Squad, while leaving Forges free to replenish Munitions, Artillery or Revolite instead.
  • Extra Bonuses to Power Stats (Option C) would be useful for either teaching new players (who would be relying on the Owner's Avionics, assuming that feature is included, and this'd give them more oomph per use), or if you're hosting Public games, where you have no clue if you're gonna get a dedicated Engineer or not.
• Those would be just some reasons to run the three different Reactor types, but my point is that the Reactor should both continue to be important and all three should be strong, competitive choices so that it's primarily about how the player(s) want the Railjack to perform.

As far as the whole "Modifiers equippable like Arcanes" goes...
And this is really just a whole lot of spitballing ideas here...

Say each House has modifiers that are specific to them, that give some kind of further bonus related to the stat they focus on, and when wreckage is repaired, that component will have one (like the current game works)
E.g. For a Passive Generation-focused (Option A) Reactor, it might have a bonus that

• Gives a small amount of energy to all Flux pools when the Railjack ram enemy ships (with either the ship itself, or the Particle Ram Battle Avionic).
• Increases the Passive Generation rate by a bit while the Railjack is using boost/maneuvers 

But regardless of what they actually do, that specific House's Reactor modifiers are all about improving the Passive Energy Generation even further.

To illustrate the different focus, one possible option for a Flux crafting-multiplier (Option B) Reactor could be:

• Generates a small amount of Flux every time a Forge is used (which is affected by the Engineer's Intrinsics), regardless of what was forged, including Flux Energy itself.

Bonus Battle Avionic Stat Boost (Option C) Reactors could have, say, an additional bonus to just one Power Stat (Strength, Range, Duration) on top of the standard bonuses.
(And as a side note, it'd be nice if modifiers could have a name, e.g. Power Range could be "Enhanced Avionics Targeting")

But say each House has... 3 to 5 possible modifiers of this kind, in addition to the kind of modifiers that the game already has, which are either House-agnostic, or can simply be crafted from Blueprints in the Drydock.

However these utility modifiers would be acquired (the Drydock crafting option is what I'd favour), there would have to be a way to avoid choking drop tables, so that people can try and seek out their preferred modifiers.

And honestly, it's be nice if there's a third Modifier slot that's sorta like the Exilus slot, and is just for Utility modifiers.

So, two slots that can accept both House-specific and House-agnostic Modifiers, and one (or two, I certainly wouldn't complain) that are only for House-agnostic modifiers.

When all is said and done, all these ideas in regards to the Flux Energy, Component Stats (especially Reactors, due to their relation to Flux Energy) and component modifiers is really just a way to give players more ways to tune their individual Railjack to make it feel like it's "theirs", without undermining the new Plexus System(s) and instead, ideally, synergising with the Plexus.

Because I like that the Plexus gives players the ability to shape how they play Railjack as a crew member, that part is definitely cool.
But I also like being able to fiddle with my own Railjack so that it's set up how I like it, especially because of how much I play solo.

I would like to think there can be a path that successfully combines both cool aspects into a system that satisfies both aims.

Well, that's my thoughts at this point,
Hopefully something at least manages to spark better ideas in someone else.

[Roland_Snow]

24 minutes ago, RaphaelVehuiah said:

Plexus upgrading. I really don't want to have to repeatedly forma and re-level it, especially because that mechanic is one of my least favourite forms of grind in the game already.
I would prefer something like being able to spend Endo (since Dirac is gone) to upgrade the Plexus' mod slots like the Avionics grid, and have that give a flat reduction to the drain of the Plexus mods (as opposed to increasing their effects, like the Avionics grid did).

• E.g. If you've got a 9 Drain Plexus Mod and it's slotted into a slot that's been upgraded to Rank 3, it would only drain 6 from the Plexus' capacity.

Love this section of your post. Not only would that work wonders for the plexus, having that kind of system for all modding slots (Warframe, weapons, vehicles, companions, etc.) would be amazing. It takes the familiarity of the current modding screen with the freedom to experiment that the avionics grid provides all wrapped together in a neat mechanic that would be perfect for modifying anything you want.

With that forma would seem out of place but heck, forma could just be the way we do that instead of charging slots with endo. For example, say you have a rank 30 item and want to fit more mod capacity on it. Right now you can only potato or forma the thing. Forma will reset it to rank 0 and lock in a polarity for half capacity in that slot (great for capacity, not so much for diversity). With RaphaelVehuiah's suggestion for the plexus (extended to all modding) the forma would instead charge that grid slot for all mods put in much like how a universal polarity would work.

With a plexus working like RaphealVehuiah suggests and keeping flux energy I would probably be all for this update since I love pretty much everything else about it.

[Leqesai]

53 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Imagine if they send 29.10.1 to Cert, then the next day they must send 29.10.2 and so forth?

You mean like how DE normally does things?

[TwinDrags]

19 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

You mean like how DE normally does things?

Normally does things on PC yes, but Cert is a console only thing.

EDIT: Cert is slang for "Console certification process"

[Leqesai]

29 minutes ago, TwinDrags said:

Normally does things on PC yes, but Cert is a console only thing.

EDIT: Cert is slang for "Console certification process"

ahhh I see. Thanks for the clarification

[Wret]

So with the increases to ship maneuverability and the inclusion of crew, can we see railjacks being maybe more likely to die when getting shot from all sides? As it stands the ship can kind of get revived indefinitely long as someone's scooping up materials, and it sort of takes away the sense of danger with Cy screaming at you about a critical breach and such for the 10th time as your gunners casually keep firing and you slurp up the Revolite materials.

 

For this same reason I hope you reconsider the Warframe Energy to Flux thing(I saw the post-Workshop update BUT JUST in case you needed a push in a certain direction). Like I hate how Warframe's energy economy works. I liked how Railjack got away from it, and with the merging of the damage types, all of the main games problems are coming to Railjack too it feels like. 

 

Also this is extremely a personal thing but I am going to kind of miss the bigger ship, I imagine if larger Railjacks with more stuff are a thing in the future we might see something resembling the old interior again, I'd like the option at least.

I am at least eager to see how the new missions are structured and improved on from the original nodes.

 

[Malkiur]

Hmm, would there be any news on the Ghoul Saw?:o Would it perhaps come along with 29.10?:o Asking for a friend!

[Ham_Grenabe]

The more I think about the Plexus (or whatever the "it's really your warframe that makes the Raijack a thing" mechanic is called), the more it makes my eye twitch. If it comes back to some piece of kit my Warframe can carry and switch around and can be essentially randomized each time I run a pub squad...why do I, personally, even have a ship? 

The Plexus makes sense if, say, Railjacks were just shells that were available to rent at a Relay, and whatever random group showed up brought their plexae and off you went. There's no reason to have personal ships anymore.

[Leqesai]

11 minutes ago, Malkiur said:

Hmm, would there be any news on the Ghoul Saw?:o Would it perhaps come along with 29.10?:o Asking for a friend!

I bet this is a 30.0 or 30.5 thing. It would be cool to see it with 29.10 though!!!

[-Augustus-]

23 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

why do I, personally, even have a ship? 

Because DE needs to have something to sell for plat in the market.

[Haushi]

Well, it's a good thing that I don't have Railjack unlocked yet because I have nothing to lose in exchange for endo. On the otherhand, the tier rewards are something I envy players who get it.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Overtkill21 said:

Avionics becoming mods got me thinking...we're going to be using A LOT of Forma on these Plexuses, Plexi? - aren't we?

It looks like the battle and technical ones don't require any points to put on. So at most it looks like we'll just need nine forma.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

6 hours ago, (PSN)chaniusul said:

mmm no cert is speed like 1 week.

D.E spit on console players. 2 update on 1,  wait 2 or 3 month for update is stupid .

You must be a newer player. If so...welcome to Warframe!

If not...then...you've forgotten past updates.

I personally dislike the "PC vs Console schism" but I'll be honest...

Console lost all right to complain about updates during The Sacrifice update.

When the UI was updated to be in line across all platforms. DE said this was to provide shorter update windows. (Which it did.)

However it had some bugs. And the console base literally lost its mind and went berserk beyond berserk for over a month.

Next came the Old Blood. Console lost its mind for weeks over bugs.

Then Railjack was the big one...

The Console community went insane. Absolutely insane...proving that it cannot handle the initial bugs that a day 1 launch often contain. Additionally due to the holidays no new builds could be  certified in time. So we were stuck with Vanilla Railjack in its buggy glory for months.

I will GLADLY and EXCITEDLY wait the 1 or 2 months it might take DE to push through the Railjack & Tempestari updates if it means:

1. Not seeing the console crowd act a fool.

2. A much smoother and significantly less buggy experience.

No. I'm not going to point and laugh at the PC base. They are used to the day 1 bugs, and honestly help make the console version a smoother experience.

I want to enjoy the smoothed out patches and updates while we can.

Should crossplay finally become a thing...well...that'll come to an end.

[(PSN)Overtkill21]

58 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

It looks like the battle and technical ones don't require any points to put on. So at most it looks like we'll just need nine forma.

Even so, with only 9 Forma, there should be some amount of forma in the Early Adopter packs. 3, 6, & 9 would be ideal in that case.

[Lysander_Salamander]

Will the Plexus also apply to any Crewship we hijack and pilot?  It seemed like a fun concept to take over the enemy ships, but they didn't feel very effective to me, in terms of firepower and overheating.

[Jacco426]

I mean at least give some extra reward to player who already did 30 repair :(((((

it cost me two whole day, tons of resources and 288plat...

and when i finally finished, DE just bonk me in the head

Even i don't get my plat back, at least can i get some extra stuff as to make my effort worth?

Please? :((((((((

[Graavarg]

8 hours ago, RezMyDeadbody said:

True.  That's the only metric available to us.  But regardless, the simple fact is that when people come to a Forum asking for help with a technical issue, there are three possible responses:
1: Realize you have nothing helpful to say, and remaining silent.
2: Realize that you have a solution, and share it.
3: Act like a total tool and start bragging about how big your ePeen™ is because you didn't have that problem, so therefore it cannot be a valid issue.

We have a discouragingly high number of forum members who always seem to decide to go straight for solution #3.

It's actually not that simple. There is also:

4: Realize you could help, but consider the problem so minor that the player asking for a solution has to be daft or just lazy => no response or "come on, this really is easy"-response

5: Realize you could help, but know from experience that solving problems is how you learn stuff, so the best help (in that case) is to not offer a ready-made solution (just ask any sensible parent...)

I do agree with you that there is a portion of forum members that mostly just want to brag and to lord it over the "plebs", but I do think it is quite small. I also think you might mistake comments from the "high MRs having everything"-faction as "ePeen™ bragging" (🙂), when they are actually pointing out something along the line of "hey, look, if I was able to manage that so can you". These god-tier equipped masters of destruction are not commenting on what they are able to do NOW (which is "absolutely anything and everything in the game"), but about the road they (too) have traveled to get to where they are.

Finally (since all this is important, but still "off topic"), just like IRL there is a risk for disconnect between someone trying to be supportive ("if I could do it, so can you", meant as "look, I am bloody useless, but even I managed to muddle through and you are probably better than me, so...") and what the one asking for help is hearing ("if I could do it, so can you" meaning "since you can't and have to ask for help you are worse than me, ha ha").

[Behradmansouri]

1. Please give us the ability to mod the plexus of our AI crewmates. I know that the 'Competency Point’ system acts basically as a plexus stand-in, but I imagine modding your crewmates to be hypercompetent at specific tasks around the ship would be more enjoyable than just assigning points to a 'gunnery' Stat that isn't even that descriptive in its function

2. I love the addition of the hull component and the new levels of customization it allows. It really wasn't great that we could change only 3 small modules around this massive railjack that we built before. That said, I would like just one more component to be added to the roster, like a 'jump drive' or a 'reliquary condensator' or whatever, as I think 5 components hits the sweet spot between amount of grind and possible customization. (you can have it control the ability stats of the railjacks abilities and revert the reactor into determining the max plexus capacity and max Flux energy capacity)

Splendid work on every other part of the rework