Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[Petroklos]

6 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

ah hell, i'm not going to read through 50 pages for this one:

i'm a bit confused about the the tier-rewards for us 'early' birds on RJ.... is the amount of wreckage the one we actually HAVE in build AND in our possesion (meaning not those we cracked up later when we got better gear) or is it the TOTAL amound EVER that we did build? and if so, where can i see that number (for i'm sure know that i trashed some build stuff quite soon after release and before we got the 'fusion' option for improving). or (and/or?) maybe is the amount just the same as the 'slots' for the wreakage? that at least would be easier to track and also more fair for those who spend the plat on that, even if they don't fill all those slots up - not that it really matter to me if i have to build some silly guns now to reach that 30 wreaks, just wanted to know...

I'd advise you check the "Latest Staff Replies" tab instead of reading through this hell hole. As for your question:

Quote

What about these Early Adopter Tiers?
Tenno - this is the hottest question, and we are seriously reviewing the Wreckage schema to make it more user friendly to know what you are eligible for at a glance vs. having to remember what you’ve built, Valence Transferred, Scrapped, etc. We are changing this, as seen here. All original posts will be edited to reflect this:

Tier 1:
-4 Avionic Grid Slots Maxed+ 1 Wreckage Built

Tier 2:
-7 Avionic Grid Slots Maxed + 3 Wreckage Built

Tier 3:
-Full Avionic Grid Maxed+ 6 Wreckage Built (i.e all Slots have something you’ve made).

"Wreckage Built" includes Blueprint Drops and Clan Research Gear, as clarified on last night's stream.

[Vaml77]

2 hours ago, Sebith said:

Dear @[DE]Rebecca The only thing that irks me is that energy change. I have no idea why you (devs) forcing that in. I know you want streamline the experience, but i think you pushed too far. It just doesn't make any sense! With so many ways to have infinite energy pool? (dispensary + arcane energize, energy dash) Are people who decide this play the game? Forcing this in, creating specific "meta" that excludes your favorite warframe, creating ability spamfest and imbalance (nerfing battle mods or warframes in result?), having to explain it in game lore. Instead you could just tweak some Flux Energy numbers and get the same result! Reducing energy cost of abilities, having mods increasing energy pool or regeneration rate... You can get same result without this warframe-powering-up-railjack nonsense... It will also be easier to balance later.

Can we also have it leveled to 30, so we don't have to do anything? 🥰

But seriously we have Nightwave going on! Everyone can get a reactor...

True. This really dont make any sense to me.

 

[master_of_destiny]

3 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Honestly it is nice to have something to grind. Having put between 2 to 6 forma on everything in the game i enjoy it. Railjack was a lot of fun until maxing everything out. I would be pretty disappointed if we went into this new patch with nothing to do.

 

This is...baffling.  I'm not trying to say wrong, just baffling.

 

At an absolute minimum you'll have to:

1) Get 1023 more intrinsics.

2) Complete all the new nodes.

3) Rank up far enough to equip a decent AI team....and buy said AI team at unknown rates with what will likely be crappy RNG (the debt bonds in Fortuna already speak to a version of this where nothing is worth looking into for about 90% of the time).

4) Rerank, and potentially farm a bunch more endo because the costs are power functions.  Yes, that level 3 grid and level 3 avionic made a level 6 upgrade before, but now the same level 6 upgrade will be about 4x as expensive in endo.  Yes, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 means x*2*2*2 endo requirements, or 8 times a single level 3.  Yeah.....can you see why people who know about the basic systems are asking how a rank 10 mod is going to be introduced into this system?   Especially when upgrading the entire ship is under 40k Dirac, but a single legendary mod will consume more that that (along with 1.7 million credits).

5) Finally, you've got to figure out the new components, and probably grind for a wreckage drop.  That is, if it isn't locked behind the dojo research wall and a bunch of arbitrary wait timers.  Oh boy.  One more component, and no increases in the amount of them.  That means you get to have 3 of the side turret wreckages as a free player....before you have to buy more slots.  Great.  Less freedom, more grind, and if we're really optimistic 3.0 will be a base level of good this time.  Saying that, I taste only bitter ashes in my mouth.

 

 

 

Isn't that enough grind, without having to do more to equip what you already had before?  I mean, with the best reactor you had to get it to drop, grind multiple, valence fusion, and only then could we populate every slot but 1 with a fully ranked avionic.  Having spent all that time, I now have to plow forma into railjack.  I don't get why people are so optimistic, when you strip out the covering and the entire update seems from the ground up to be making this more of a grind.  The primary benefit seems to be content, followed by homogenization to core warframe.  Great.  A year and change ago people said the differences (specifically damage types) was stupid, and DE blanket stated that they would not get regular damage types in Railjack.  I guess a year and change of frustration taught them that players simply will not engage with bad grind, but instead of learning they decided to simply mirror other grind.  It's not insulting if we've already swallowed it, right?

 

Being abundantly clear, grind is not inherently bad.  What is, is being treated like idiots.  It's insulting to have been told all of this was impossible a year ago, and that the vision of Railjack was something we had to accept.  Now, the response is that we should be happy to accept these changes....and forget that we asked for them and were denied.  Oof.  I feel as though space mom is a Karen...thankfully that persona is not a criticism of anyone at DE, and only of the bass ackwards mentality required to be blindly enthusiastic about all of this.

[cliffghost]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb fr4gb4ll:

hmm, if it's like with mods, my guess is that we will lose a bit of endo when the maxed avionics are dissolved/changed to an unranked state - meaning when compared to mods, you spend more endo to max them out than you would get back when dissolving this maxed mod afterwards... not sure but i think it might be a loss of about 1/4 of endo spend... might be more for those with more ranks possible.

but ofc, DE just could exchange the maxed avionics with a equaly maxed mod (if they still have the same 'rank' that is...)

but even if we lose some endo this way i won't complain with my 750k of spare endo and the 350k-400k (or more) of dirac adding to this... afterall, we would never have any use of dirac for anything else but to feed helminth (oh damn, that was one resource he didn't want to eat, that picky bugger ^^)

meh... I'm upset atm. I better keep my mouth shut before I say thoughtless things. 🤐

[Nekromast]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb theBRICKMASTR:

Still not good enough.  if I wanted to use a warframe that is built in such a way that it doesn't require flow, my ability to use railjack abilities would get screwed over.  warframe energy pools used for railjack abilities is NOT a solution.  On another note, if the battle forge can generate warframe energy for railjack ability use, then the battle forge can just power the ship itself.  Please set up a system where the railjack supplies its own power, and has nothing to do with which frame or build someone uses.  I do not want any situation where my frame choice and play style are shifted because of the need to hold energy.  That should be modded on its own.  I would much rather flux energy still be a thing, it actually makes sense.  i never had any problems with it, and i see no need to get rid of it.  If being unable to use a railjack ability because some spent the energy is a problem, then giving everyone separate flux energy pools is the solution.  and if mod slots becomes a problem with that, make a separate tab for railjack power mods specifically, or some other means.  I stand firm on my opinion that railjack energy needs to be entirely based on the railjack, and nothing else.  There is no reason to swap to warframe energy, as warframes are not the power source of the railjack, it makes no sense at all.  Please change.

This ^. I also completely agree that I would rather put just a flux energy mod on my RJ like before than to check if my current frame has flow on it and need to be careful when changing frames. Seperate flux energy makes more sense than just using Warframe energy.

[Serafim_94]

On the energy FAQ - no, it's not a solution. Don't you guys understand what you're doing there? You're creating energy meta within the railjack. It's going to encourage unfun interactions with already existing energy generations, which will definitely make RJ more powerful, while definitely be not fun. I CAN'T WAIT to leave the pilot seat every 30 seconds to apply energizing dash. I CAN'T WAIT to leave the pilot seat to spam energy pizzas. WHAT FUN. And you're still enforcing meta warframes for the mode for no #*!%ing reason.

All of this is to fix a NON-EXISTANT problem. There was nothing wrong with flux energy. if anything, it created a much needed balancing barrier, allowing to tweak RJ power separately from the rest of the game. Why do you try to fix what isn't broken? Just leave it alone. It's simple. Just don't do anything with it.

[0x62]

On 2021-03-08 at 12:36 PM, Voltage said:

If you want players spreading out over missions, have exclusive rewards spread out around the Railjack system so players are encouraged to grind different mission types to complete the gamemode.

Got all my "exclusive rewards." Time to farm intrinsics. Back to "Gian Point" I go!

😏

[N7Banzai]

With respect and we know you guys have deadlines, and you want to make it more accesible, but as most of us said, warframe energy dependent system seems pointless and just comes with a lot of headache. The energy system also brings in the meta slaves, when before, we had a nice built-in, easily managable system. Battle Forge with energy regen would have been a nice addition to the flux system too.

Random Suggestions:

You could add small void pockets to the map, when flying through those, you get flux / energy back. This way, I don't have to exit the piloting seat to put down energy pads which brakes the flow of the gameplay.

Another idea is to bring back the power on / off system too that you showed off at tennocon, without flux and energy. IE.: power off piloting seat to anchor down the railjack giving it extra armor plus giving acces forward artillery charges to the side turrets, managed by the host or engineer. You can go crazy with it.

Last thing I wanted to add is: c'mon guys even we have solar arrays IRL on our spacecrafts to power everything.

[Aldain]

Just adding my drop to the bucket about Flux-to-Warframe being an INSANELY bad idea.

Not gonna go heavy into it, but suffice to say it will be nothing but Void Holes.

[Slayer-.]

44 minutes ago, 0x62 said:

Got all my "exclusive rewards." Time to farm intrinsics. Back to "Gian Point" I go!

😏

Good luck with that, DE is removing that mission node.

[(PSN)Overtkill21]

6 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Except they arent doing what you describe. You ate creating a false equivalency to try and compel a dramatic reaction to a very minor inconvenience.

I think if anyone is trying to compel anything it would be you, trying to convince folks that having to Forma the Plexus up to 9 times and use, what will likely amount to, multiple hundreds of thousands of Endo and millions of credits in an effort to just get their Railjack even close to performing how it used to is no big deal.

But hey, they're giving Riven Slivers and enough Endo to halfway upgrade one mod.../s

[smashedwookie]

34 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Good luck with that, DE is removing that mission node.

Seem the sarcasm of the comment was lost on you.

[RAZORLIGHT]

18 hours ago, -Augustus- said:

Yeah, we do, but again refer to the Twitch stream wherein it was unequivocally stated that ordnance doesn't count. My reading of that is it's 6 pieces of actual rebuilt wreckage (NOPE! Apparently building anything other than default is all that matters, Sigma counts: https://www.twitch.tv/warframe/clip/VastHealthyCobraSoBayed-Bf1cA8uAWFt23aic) and the reference to 6 slots being built in just reinforces the common joke that DE doesn't actually play its own game. 

See, ;)

I hope this will get clarified in the first post of this thread.
Have a nice day.

[KingOfPredators]

I chose wrong game to get back into, and the wrong time I guess.

If DE actually decided to delete railjack, that would be better option then this new forma sink...

[Slayer-.]

  

2 hours ago, 0x62 said:

Got all my "exclusive rewards." Time to farm intrinsics. Back to "Gian Point" I go!

😏

 

1 hour ago, Slayer-. said:

Good luck with that, DE is removing that mission node.

 

1 hour ago, smashedwookie said:

Seem the sarcasm of the comment was lost on you.

Trying to convey sarcasm in written form, ok.

 I'll look closer next time with my tired eyes. 😏 

[__jag__]

One thing I haven't seen addressed is how much is lost when something goes wrong with Railjack. Whether it's a failed host migration, or the (still not fixed!) bug that gets you stuck in the "loading" tunnel when returning to the Dojo so you ultimately have to Alt-F4 out...

You'll keep most of the items you gained, but you lose all of the affinity and standing you've gained since joining that Railjack. Not just since the last successful mission. No, all of it.

Since the items you've picked up are committed to the account upon mission completion (i.e. when heading to the same/next node), one would think the gained affinity and standing could (and would) be synchronized as well, but apparently not. If I remember correctly, to add insult to injury, your daily standing cap does get updated, just not your actual standing.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has contributed to people avoiding Railjack. I'd actually forgotten about this issue but was just harshly reminded of it again.

[fr4gb4ll]

5 hours ago, Petroklos said:

I'd advise you check the "Latest Staff Replies" tab instead of reading through this hell hole. As for your question:

"Wreckage Built" includes Blueprint Drops and Clan Research Gear, as clarified on last night's stream.

hell yeah, thanks a bunch - that's what i was (not so much ^^) looking for. somehow i had the notion of 30 wreaks, not sure why... i think it was in the summary of rebeccas video (or maybe i was just half asleep when reading...) thx again!

[Amazerath]

8 hours ago, __jag__ said:

I do like to exaggerate to make a point 😀 Maybe you're right and all we need to do is upgrade our mods and put them into our Plexus and we'll be right back where we were, or close enough. If not though, any Formas I need on top of that will feel like more than a minor inconvenience to me.

I think if that was truly going to be the case then DE would have stated it already. When they avoid saying the thing that everyone obviously wants to hear that usually means they don't have a good answer to provide.

The way I see it they either didn't expect this problem or were naive enough to think that throwing random resources at their players solves everything. Either way, what really matters is if they are going to actually do something about this or if they'll just try to pretend nothing happened as they sometimes do.

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

@[DE]Rebeccaany chance we can build the railjack how we actually want? for instance slotting 2 tier 3 battle avionics in any slot we wish?

So for instance if we want to have Seeker volley, Particle ram, and void hole, we could do that but their costs are the same so you'd have 2 abilities that cost 100 and 1 that costs 50. cuz ill be honest i play solo and id just get a second account and a second xbox and never slot in a first ability. I noticed that the slots had special symbols and the mods did too. and honestly I think thats a bad move. can you discuss with the devs to see if this is possible. After all if you put proteas dispensary in a warframes 4th slot it costs 100 so theres a draw back there as well it's the same system.

[(XBOX)AlmightyTa1lest]

Any word on modular archwing, and the changes surrounding to make it more viable in Railjack?  Melee is completely ineffective, along with most archwing abilities, and only a few primaries make sense. Would love to see this revamped for new Railjack, especially with a crew via command intrinsic manning the ship. 

[(NSW)RATHURUE]

We can go around for another 30 pages or so, but as we've experienced with other 'pushed' agenda by DE (changes of warframe portraits, changes of end-mission screen, nerfing frames with 'lore' reasons) this one will probably still pass.  

Let's adress the biggest elephant in the room. RJ has been (and will continue to be) another 'content island' that everybody plays until they've grinded what they wanted, and left forever. DE has been trying constantly to remove these small islands by integrating them into core gameplay, in same method of 'whacking a wedge into a puzzle to add into it's complexity'.

We all know what gonna happen. The wedge gonna break the puzzle.

DE, for many years has proven that they're the kind of devs that has good ideas, but have no idea how to execute it properly. RJ was supposed to be something that ties the ground missions and space missions, yet it still didn't have that fluidity. Liches was supposed to be challenging, an enemy that evolves constantly to be your nemesis, but in reality it's just another grind about 2 hours each. Heck, Eidolons and Orbs are supposed to be a great bossfight that challenges us to use all the tenno abilities, but over the year it's devolved into meta boss of 'bring volt brr brr the end' and 'haha yeah archguns go brrr', or more lately for both of them 'haha voidrig go brrrr'. While this is already proof that they haven't learned anything about how game designs are supposed to be future-proof, we already know that from the fiasco of melee vs guns.

Back to the point. What does these RJ changes does, from the game mechanics standpoint?

1: Does it give us more ability to customize our ship?

No. It actively prevents us from customizing ships by changing avionics-based system, which you can expand EASILY by doing missions and nothing else to grind for both drops and wreckages to capacity-based, forma-fueled S#&$, which CREATES A DISCONNECTION between gathering resources (Forma) and playing the game mode. While it did 'connect' RJ and the main Warframe game, it can be likened as 'hey, I want to upgrade my yacht, but the NOS intake is only sold in US. Can I use my canadian dollars to import it?'. That's not a 'connection', but 'dependance'. It's a one-way relation. Prior to these 'update' the only 'connection' RJ has to the maingame was the blink delay reduction from avionics, which is absolutely okay.  

2: Does changing the upgrade cost from dirac to endo would benefit the game?

I can say with absolute certainity NOT. Endo comes from a rather sizable source, but all of those sources only drops A MEASLY AMOUNT OF, unless YOU GRINDED FOR IT. Yes, we will receive compensation for each upgraded avionics slots in our RJ, but AT 1:1 CONVERSION IT WOULD DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in face of the upgrade costs for the new avionics-turned-mods. For an update that aims to 'reduce grind' THIS WILL ACTUALLY MAKE YOU HAVE TO GRIND TO ACHIEVE THE PERFORMANCE YOU PREVIOUSLY HAD.  

3: Does changing the damage types to follow the 'normal' damage types benefits the mode?

Again, ABSOLUTELY NOT. People with IQ above room temperature can read the description of the RJ-element conversion and compare them to standard element effects, and realize that there's a huge difference between the two. Mostly impacted being CARCINOXX, the weapon of choice because somebody in design team thought that having projectile physics IN SPACE, with enemies flying absolutely everywhere with high speeds would be a good idea and this weapon somehow rectify that, being a hitscan weapon. Pre-update Carcinoxx has the Chem bonus, which acts like Radiation: makes ships attack other ships, which is very useful in laying siege to a crewship. But after update, it will turn into plain Toxin, which overlaps with Burn and Slash. I wonder what would happen if somehow we can put all three together...gee.  

4: Does eliminating flux energy and tying RJ abilities to Warframe Energy pool will benefit the mode?  

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Like many others before has explained, and you guys choose to ignore, this would create either of the two problems: limiting builds and creating energy meta, which basically will impacts the game mode. It can go ONLY in bad directions, like 'no Hildryn? Go seek another team', or everyone doing Macross Missile Massacre due to having unlimited energy (Remember, Rebuild Shield on Hildryn is still a thing.)  

So as far as we seen here, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THESE CHANGES. Then why are you pushing it? To break the game even further, as with my comparison with the 'wedge into puzzle'? Or to get money from selling built RJ, Formas and Boosters? These changes won't 'cure' the problem that is you guys creating more content islands as you go on with this game, this methodology will instead create MORE of them. Please, future-proof your designs more, or to be exact, consolidate your ideas into one single roadmap timeline. Don't add things that aren't needed to complete the story; overbranching arcs would eventually leads to loose ends. Prune the uneeded branches, so the trunk have less strain and can develop higher, not sideways.

[Raze4573]

I play Railjack once a blue moon, when I'm in the correct sci-fi mood. Not gonna lie, the mode keeps me coming back thanks its uniqueness when it comes to the interface since it's not the same as everything else in the game. Visually and musically it's always been adored by me, in conversations with my Tenno friends I keep bringing up how one of the combat music tracks reminds me of Supermarine from Dunkirk, Railjack is absolutely worth playing.
To anyone from the dev team, I know you dont exactly care since your goal is to make the game accessible and fun for everyone, even if it means making some aspects more casual friendly. Nevertheless, I just wanted to chime in and sheepishly ask that you don't turn railjack into another vehicle with mod cards that looks like everything else.
I am 50/50 about the size change, 100% with you on the Command feature so people can play it solo, regardless which proxima area they pick. You're doing an awesome job, all of you at DE but I will most definitely miss Avionics and the non universal aspects of railjack, it was and is still fun to play.

[(NSW)Spicy_DX]

Expecting people to have avionics slots maxed out is absolutely not fair. There’s players like me who are gonna be stuck in tier 1 just because we thought it’s be a good idea to get every slot to rank 1, and then every slot to rank 2 before maxing many out.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2021-03-08 at 3:03 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

While it is possible to add additional Forma later, the amount of items you will be able to slot from the get-go are quite generous.

Emphasis mine.  There is absolutely nothing generous about increasing grind.  You're taking people who have maxed out Railjacks with maxed out avionics and instead of giving them a respec to prevent them from having to redo the grind of maxing out their ships/avionics/etc you're making them not only redo it but tacking on added cost.

An increase in time spent just to get back to where you currently are and adding resource costs on top of that in the form of Forma is not in any way generous.  That's not what generous means.  Because unless my current build, minus the avioncs we're no longer going to have like for Hull/etc, fits in the base Plexus, you've just caused me to have to redo grind to make progress I've already made.  That's you tracking mud onto a floor I've just mopped, smearing it around and picking up some of the big clumps and expecting me to praise you for helping when I now have to remop the damn floor because of you.

Locking us out of the modularity we had with the better implemented Avionics Grid system is just the diarrhea icing on this turd cake.  Polarities innately lock you out of build modularity unless you get lucky and the different builds you want share all the same polarities.

There's also your very long track record of poor initial polarity placement.  You either stick the worst polarities on many things on purpose, have no idea how players are actually modding things, or you're just slapping random polarities on stuff.  I can't count the number of times I pulled a weapon from my foundry and went to mod it only to be disappointed by a D polarity on there for no reason.  Over half the Pexilus slots on that you slapped a bunch of random polarities on were flat out wrong and would have been better off without a polarity at all.  Time will tell if you screwed us on the Plexus polarities in relation to whatever polarities you gave all the avionics.  I don't have high hopes.

This singular change has killed any excitement I had for a RJ update, and I'm one of your early adopters that actually played the mode.  Considering new updates are the only content I have left to run, that doesn't leave folks like me in a good spot.

[CuChulainnWD]

17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

While I understand you want to simplify and make more accessible the understanding of how Avionics work in Railjack, has the build diversity and flexibility of the system not been considered?

The current Avionics system allows you to swap out any module with any other module as long as the node is fully upgraded. As apposed to the modular system where you must spend a forma to "LOCK IN" a polarity to the Avionic module (Now mod) to match and thus reduce capacity costs. It's great you (DE) have decided to include a reactor. I also understand the need for the company to make money, (You've gotten plenty of it from me).

Has DE considered allowing the ability for Regular Forma spent on Rail Jack Plexus to behave like an AURA FPORMA making each slot multi polarity optional? This would allow for and retain build diversity and variety. It can be very annoying to be locked into certain builds (Even with a generous mod cap) when you have a fully formaed Plexus.  This way everybody wins, players and DE alike with forma sales.