Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[CyberneticSusurrus]

1 hour ago, Xaero said:

[lots of questions that could have been answered by simply reading the thread]

Instead of a wall of text where you ask "Why?" a lot, you should take that time to skim through even the most recent posts.

26 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Why?

Same as the above.

 

There's been a wealth of feedback, much of it well-reasoned and presented.
Put in the time and effort to respect that, instead of asking people to reiterate pages of context and dialogue.

[Xaero]

38 minutes ago, CyberneticSusurrus said:

Instead of a wall of text where you ask "Why?" a lot, you should take that time to skim through even the most recent posts.

You should read the guidelines regarding constructive feedback to understand what I'm talking about.

https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/

[CoffeeElemental]

4 минуты назад, LillyRaccune сказал:

bring back the old revive system

Well, to be honest - I'd like to see death more threatening in this game (but without the plat part).

[Reidenshi]

1 hour ago, CyberneticSusurrus said:

There's been a wealth of feedback, much of it well-reasoned and presented.
Put in the time and effort to respect that, instead of asking people to reiterate pages of context and dialogue.

You know what would really be respectful? To not dillute constructive feedback with pointless whining.

Should I explain why?

Constructive feedback is aimed at DE. People post it in hopes DE will take it into account. Yet baseless whining posts make it harder for DE to actually notice the useful feedback.

In other words, either be constructive, or don't post at all.

[(XBOX)Screwygore]

With the moving of the turrents tonthe underbelly and top of the railjack will Phantom eye be changed? Will it still be like a VR bubble? Or will we still see the ship and only move around in a 360 horizontal motion? You said (at default) they will face forward so does this mean that you can move it side to side only facing that direction then at gunnery 2 you can see behind you? Without phantom eye i got motion sick which is pretty rare to happen these days and when railjack first came out that was the first time in a while i got sick from someones erratic driving. If i could get some confirmation that it will remain as is that would be awesome! 

[Djw176]

I do think it's wild that the fanbase almost universally agreed Railjack was in a bad place and wasn't very well done up until DE said they're gonna change it and suddenly people act like it's perfect sacrosanct.

[Slayer-.]

 

5 hours ago, 0x62 said:

I am just watching with interest. The changes seem to be unifying so that the game is less complicated (as well as balance changes for "oh no, players learned how to mod properly" playstyles).

I am worried about the plexis system, since it appears that new playes must "bring their own equipment" instead of trying out the host's equipment (im fine with "bring your own equipment" requirements for experienced players, since if one knows how to play the game, one brings their own game changing equipment. but im worried about the new player aspect)

Everything else is tearful reactions, or cautious optimism. I can't wait to see how the energy system will play out now that we are using abilities based on Warframe energy. Logically it doesn't make sense, but gameplay wise (to unify/simplify everything) it makes sense.

Hmm the Plexus system, from what I've gleamed other players bring their Avionics Mods onto my ship that's fully pimped out and it could effect my ship stats, I'm not real sure about that one without watching the video again, so I haven't been commenting on that one.

I'm loving what's coming except the Forma & Endo sink, like I stated in my spoiler post.

Spoiler

 

Time will tell how it all turns out, I'm just concerned and hope it all works out for the good in the end.

19 minutes ago, Djw176 said:

I do think it's wild that the fanbase almost universally agreed Railjack was in a bad place and wasn't very well done up until DE said they're gonna change it and suddenly people act like it's perfect sacrosanct.

I've played from the start and found it to be good, so I'm probably a rare player breed.

Welcome to the forums Tenno your first post .................. 

Spoiler

....... MR28 and never been to the forums .............................................. Ok 

 

[Unimira]

Was it answered what happens to the mastery we have already got from Instrinsics after the reset? Can I for example opt to not get the Gunnery 10 perk and still retain the mastery from it?

[Serafim_94]

On 2021-03-14 at 10:00 AM, Djw176 said:

I do think it's wild that the fanbase almost universally agreed Railjack was in a bad place and wasn't very well done up until DE said they're gonna change it and suddenly people act like it's perfect sacrosanct.

You know why? Because there were people who played and enjoyed Railjack. Silently, unlike the whiners. It wasn't perfect, but it didn't need a rework to leave it in objectively worse state than before for no reason. I'm not even going to start on how FUN it will be to suddenly forma the whole thing and pump thousands of endo through it - other people did that already. Going to make ABSOLUTE WONDERS for RJ accessibility. Then there is objective fact that the Plexus will be broken for gods know how long - after all, DE took months to fix regular mod setups failing to work within RJ, and now they come up with this cryptic thing.

People who didn't like the RJ will still dislike it, and whine about it on forums without spending a minute on it. What this update will do is alienate those who actually liked the mode. For what gain, I have no idea. Because even those who didn't like Rj, to my knowledge, never asked for "hey, let's remove flux energy!" and "hey, I really want to spend 10 formas on it, it will help my enjoyment".

[cliffghost]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Djw176:

I do think it's wild that the fanbase almost universally agreed Railjack was in a bad place and wasn't very well done up until DE said they're gonna change it and suddenly people act like it's perfect sacrosanct.

Railjack in its current state is obviously somehow something that was released far too early and then... ehm... yes.

It's not bad at all imho. It just needs a little more love from the devs (without the financial accounting department in the back). Mission diversity, weapon balancing, core integration, bug fixing. All that will be tracked with the next update if I got it right.

The players actually just try to keep DEs accountants at bay so that not only the players have to pay the duties for DEs questionable Railjack management in the past.

Imho the devs did a great job on Railjack. DEs management didn't. But that should be subject for DE internal debates.

Just my 2c

[SordidDreams]

On 2021-03-08 at 9:03 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Aim snaps turret to lead indicator (lock-on lasts much longer than before, with small added cost to weapon heat)

I'm sure what I'm about to say has been said already, but it bears repeating:

This is terrible and needs to be changed. Gunnery 10 is currently an actively detrimental intrinsic, partly due to the lead indicators not actually indicating the correct amount of lead a lot of time time, partly due to having your view jerked around by the game being unpleasant in general. Making the negative effect from it last longer and adding a weapon heat cost is the opposite of improvement. Even if the intrinsic did nothing besides giving MR points, that would still be preferable to this.

[Slayer-.]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I'm sure what I'm about to say has been said already, but it bears repeating:

This is terrible and needs to be changed. Gunnery 10 is currently an actively detrimental intrinsic, partly due to the lead indicators not actually indicating the correct amount of lead a lot of time time, partly due to having your view jerked around by the game being unpleasant in general. Making the negative effect from it last longer and adding a weapon heat cost is the opposite of improvement. Even if the reworked intrinsic did nothing besides giving MR points, that would still be preferable to this.

I agree with you about the heat nerf that will be added that effects the guns is wrong, as an Intrinsic though it is awesome with the right guns I've found out after testing.

I disagree that it is an actively detrimental intrinsic from my personal experience using it I'm glad I unlocked it.

If the game is that bad for you how can you fix it?  is it a crappy computer or crappy internet.

Do you play as the host or client? it does make a difference.

[FuriousRat32]

53 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

You know why? Because there were people who played and enjoyed Railjack. Silently, unlike the whiners. It wasn't perfect, but it didn't need a rework to leave it in objectively worse state than before for no #*!%ing reason. I'm not even going to start on how FUN it will be to suddenly forma the whole thing and pump thousands of endo through it - other people did that already. Going to make ABSOLUTE WONDERS for RJ accessibility. Then there is objective fact that the Plexus will be broken for gods know how long - after all, DE took months to fix regular mod setups failing to work within RJ, and now they come up with this cryptic thing.

People who didn't like the RJ will still dislike it, and whine about it on forums without spending a minute on it. What this update will do is alienate those who actually liked the mode. For what gain, I have no idea. Because even those who didn't like Rj, to my knowledge, never asked for "hey, let's remove flux energy!" and "hey, I really want to spend 10 formas on it, it will help my enjoyment".

And let's not forget the huge amount of credits we'll need to level the avionics turned into mods. It certainly doesn't look like less grind to me, blatant lies as always.

[Knicklichtjedi]

I just have to say this is one of the best DevWorkshops Ive seen so far!
Written and visual version, clear vision of goals and changes based on feedback before the release.
Thank you for putting so much effort into it!

[__jag__]

9 hours ago, Xaero said:

Making Railjack's interior smaller is bad? Why?

Tying avionics to players is bad? Why?

They both have to do with the "fantasy" aspect. "Here's my big, bad-ass warship that I've built up, and we're going on an adventure." (Don't laugh, I think Railjack can become an awesome aspect of the game.) Reducing the size, and moving (most?) power from the ship to the players diminishes that fantasy. "Here's my flying bunker, ..." just doesn't have the same feel. At that point I'd almost rather just get assigned some default ship as we all queue for "Railjack" missions. Maybe I'm thinking too negatively, but besides the speed and shields trade-offs, and what kind of turrets/ordnance is used, what modifications will be left on the ship?

If given a choice for the interior (and why couldn't this be the player's choice?), I'd choose the current interior, or maybe even one that matches the outside of my ship (it's bigger smaller on the inside!)

I've personally been going back and forth on the need for something like the Plexus. I can see where DE is coming from, at the same time I feel that for me, the player, it's a simple choice to make: take out my own Railjack with all its power, or join someone else's Railjack and work with what I get. Intrinsics already make for a lot of creature comforts, even on less powerful ships. I really don't feel the need to also take my Railjack's power with me aboard someone else's ship.

[smashedwookie]

30 minutes ago, __jag__ said:

If given a choice for the interior (and why couldn't this be the player's choice?), I'd choose the current interior, or maybe even one that matches the outside of my ship (it's bigger smaller on the inside!)

The change to the ship interior is partly to make it fit the size of the exterior

[(XBOX)Justan Man]

Will we be getting an exilus slot for our railjack too?  It seems that there is an effort to have parity between warframe mod slot and railjack but exilus is currently missing from RJ.  Several of the existing RJ mods are very similar to existing exilus weapon mods. 

[Digressive]

Thread given a *deep* clean.

Please keep on topic

[squirrel_killer-]

On 2021-03-08 at 3:03 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Aim snaps turret to lead indicator (lock-on lasts much longer than before, with small added cost to weapon heat)

I feel two changes need to happen here. One is accessibility, the other is a buff.

For accessibility, this thing forcing you to jerk around makes many, not myself but others, motion sick, and this really needs to be addressed, as this alone makes many people unable to go into gunnery aim mode without being made ill.

The next thing is, this is just kind of an underwhelming ability. I feel like it needs to be buffed, and adding a cost to a non-optional thing isn't great either.

To fix both of these I feel this should work more like the Aliens vs. Predator (2010) game's Smartgun, where rather than giving a reticle that you move and moving the camera with it, it draws a block on the screen and the reticle moves around and auto-aims at anything in that space, while the camera stays static to avoid motion sickness. Have this activated by unlocking a "fourth ability" ability at Gunnery 10. The cost of this ability, rather than energy, could be a toggle that inflicts a series of heat based debuffs, increased heat cost and reduced cooldown rate in exchange for aim-bot and adding a homing property to the projectiles.

Even if the drawbacks were double the heat cost and half the cooldown rate, effectively cutting the amount of "ammo" you'd have while this ability was active in half, it would still be an insanely powerful ability that could be treated as a "No Skill, Just Kill" power fantasy where you hit the ability then hold down fire and every bullet finds its way to an attacking fighter shredding swarms rapidly.

Another set of drawbacks could be a mild increase in heat cost, but also a slow passive heat gain when active with a short activation animation, meaning there is a period where you cannot fire during activation and you can't just sit in such a mode the whole time.

I fully believe an "auto-aim" type power up is fitting for Gunny 10, but it should be more powerful than what is currently in place, and shouldn't be an active detriment if you have the wrong weapons equipped due to the buggy nature of the lead indictors, forcing you to always play as host to ensure the right guns so that it functions "correctly" while having to accept a debuff on something you can't reliably control, and shouldn't be basically designed to cause motion sickness in those who are vulnerable to it.

[sarasuxatwarframe]

I was surprised to see people not liking this change. And here I am so freaking excited for it!
I really wanted to love railjack, but essentially everything I had a problem with will be addressed in this update, so I'm really optimistic to get in and tinker.
I felt like an idiot before because as much as I liked the style of the UI on the avionics page, modding RJ was way too confusing for me (someone I would call a casual player, but has 2000+ hours in the game). It all felt too alienated from core warframe, so I like the unification of certain ideas/functions.
I just saw a lot of complaints, and wanted the devs to know that... No, this is GREAT actually. Thanks :)

[squirrel_killer-]

3 minutes ago, sarasuxatwarframe said:

I was surprised to see people not liking this change. And here I am so freaking excited for it!
I really wanted to love railjack, but essentially everything I had a problem with will be addressed in this update, so I'm really optimistic to get in and tinker.
I felt like an idiot before because as much as I liked the style of the UI on the avionics page, modding RJ was way too confusing for me (someone I would call a casual player, but has 2000+ hours in the game). It all felt too alienated from core warframe, so I like the unification of certain ideas/functions.
I just saw a lot of complaints, and wanted the devs to know that... No, this is GREAT actually. Thanks :)

I fully agree with you, I am personally excited for almost everything I see, I play Warframe with friends as a coop game first, and Railjack is great for that, but since I don't feel compelled to give "meaningless" feedback of "looks great" I was thinking over it since it was first posted to think if there was anything in it that I didn't like or really felt needed to be relooked, hence my post about Gunnery 10, I think something a lot of people see and don't realize is, not all complaining is just complaining, it is more of a case of "We b**** because we love you, and we want you to be great". The fact this update has so much support and feedback, especially constructive feedback, shows people do care about this and want it to be good. Personally I feel like they should've released this with a long running pre-release test server which would be updated daily based on running feedback as a dev build, since this is SUCH a big change it is hard to consider it all without seeing it, which is the major thing I personally am waiting on.

[fluxe2002]

is there any release date more spesific than "within the next week or 2" maby a tendency or something ? 

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, sarasuxatwarframe said:

I was surprised to see people not liking this change. And here I am so freaking excited for it!

I'm not defending them, but DE does have the habit of ignoring well-written feedback seen in past Workshops. I'm eager to try out the Corpus Proximas along with the Zephyr Revisit soon.

People tend to be very pessimistic, while by the same token not offering proper constructive feedback:

15 hours ago, neudood said:

This railjack update is dumb, and flies in the face of common sense.  The railjack community as a whole can decide, but I get the feeling that DE is about to really screw up here.

I'll not be looking at railjack at all if all these workshop changes are implemented in their current state.  They are all bad, but I guess DE knows something we don't?

12 hours ago, neudood said:

It's really bad.  All of it. 

Sorry to rain on this parade.  I'm not one to do this when it comes to Warframe critiques, but this is just really a bad decision all around. 

This is not constructive feedback. Feedback is when you identify something wrong or what's causing problems to you. Then you offer advice or ideas on how to correct these issues. In fact, there are multiple instances of this that happened in this thread or since the 8 years of Warframe.

Frankly, I would imagine how stressful for community managers such as @[DE]Rebeccato read this and relay this to the team. They would need to read and find the two parts: the problem and the offered solution. Certain posts in this thread lacked any of their offered solutions, while blending in their problem statement with bias that makes their post comes off as venting their frustration at them.

[patkincs]

Okay, but when coming this update?! 

[cliffghost]

Could we please get a complete overview of the new modules to roughly estimate the total cost (in endo/credits) for ranking all of them?

The screenshots in the original post as well as the shown modules in the dev-workshop video unfortunately don't show everything but just a fraction.