Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack

[nebfab]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Yes and yes.

Credits aren't required for avionics though right?  So that is the one part that we haven't really got an answer for yet.

TBF, anyone who has lots of maxed avionics also probably has more credits than they know what to do with. Typical Gian farm gives, what, 150-200K per run, and you need a lot of runs for getting both the mods and the dirac to max them...

I used to struggle with credits before RJ, but now I don't even intentionally farm them, and still have more than enough for primed mods and all that, simply by playing lots of Railjack. And I'm not even that dedicated a player, I take month-long breaks, I don't have all 10 intrinsics... (OK, I do have all the Zetki guns max fused simply as collectors items...)

 

So, yea, number will probably go down on release, but I'm frankly not that worried about it, esp if those resource packs in early adopter rewards have credits.

[CyberneticSusurrus]

7 hours ago, nebfab said:

Megan is talking Kuva lich crew on stream.

1) Command intrinsic (she thinks 8, not sure) required.

2) Liches can't do anything but fight: no piloting, repairing, etc.

Possibly a limit of just 1 lich per crew, but she's not sure.

What on earth is the point of having any crewmember that can only fight?
What an utter waste of the Lich conversion system.

[Serafim_94]

7 часов назад, nebfab сказал:

Unvaulted relics and sentinel part drop from "loot dungeons" like that abandoned tower in Ruse. There would be 2 more types: some kind of mine and (didn't catch.)

Now this is actually cool.

[KaerisMalifaux]

37 minutes ago, CyberneticSusurrus said:

What on earth is the point of having any crewmember that can only fight?
What an utter waste of the Lich conversion system.

I agree.

If that is their intended role, they should act like those syndicate specters to permanently patrol the ship and NOT take a up a crew / tenno slot.

[Nekromast]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PSN)True_Reclaimer:

Really well written for your first post on the forums, I hope to see more of your feedback going forward

 

Without putting Railjack into the core gameplay of Warframe, no matter how easy they make it, there will still be no reason to play it

I thought what they are gonna do will bring it closer to the core or more precisely as the one you replied to said, one half of the update comes soon which will bring us an alternative arcane (and mayybe endo) farm and the second half will bring us the important relic farm where I thought imo would be the main thing to bring it closer to core. But of course it depends how the void storms will be different from void fissures or not. 

The arcane farm could be at least interesting for those who didn't try eidolon hunts yet or were a bit overwhelmed by it (I have a few friends who still don't have a new amp but are current in the rest of the content )

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 minute ago, Nekromast said:

I thought what they are gonna do will bring it closer to the core or more precisely as the one you replied to said, one half of the update comes soon which will bring us an alternative arcane (and mayybe endo) farm and the second half will bring us the important relic farm where I thought imo would be the main thing to bring it closer to core. But of course it depends how the void storms will be different from void fissures or not. 

The arcane farm could be at least interesting for those who didn't try eidolon hunts yet or were a bit overwhelmed by it (I have a few friends who still don't have a new amp but are current in the rest of the content )

You need a mech to do Orphix

Getting a mech is much harder than getting an amp

Your casual friends will quit immediately when they see they need to be Rank 5 in Entrati and max rank in Lloyd, on top of needing to farm hundreds of Isolation vaults for RNG part drops, on top of needing to mine thousands of rocks for the gems, on top of needing to spear hundreds of infested fish for the parts

Once again, another whimsical comment from someone new with less than 30 posts, no surprise they dont understand the complexities of the game systems nor can they grasp how this update will make things HARDER FOR EVERYONE, both vets and casual players alike

Only upside is you can buy mechs and now railjack with plat I guess... but youll still be missing all the mods and what not, so youd be better off buying the arcanes from trade for 10 to 20p each  

[Slayer-.]

 

30 minutes ago, (PSN)True_Reclaimer said:

Once again, another whimsical comment from someone new with less than 30 posts, no surprise they dont understand the complexities of the game systems nor can they grasp how this update will make things HARDER FOR EVERYONE, both vets and casual players alike

 

If you could see Nekromast game profile you would see they are not new, yes new to the forum if you want to base it on post count, I see you seem to be one of these 'oh you know nothing if you have a low post count.'

Everybody is allowed to have a comment, whether whimsical or not.

[Mediloric]

9 hours ago, nebfab said:

Megan is talking Kuva lich crew on stream.

1) Command intrinsic (she thinks 8, not sure) required.

2) Liches can't do anything but fight: no piloting, repairing, etc.

Possibly a limit of just 1 lich per crew, but she's not sure.

Ooft, one of the cool things I was looking forward to with this update and it's looking like they're getting shafted! I have a feeling we don't have all the info here but judging from this: Converted Liches are getting a sour deal yet again. :( I had such a cool Lich I wanted to use too! dang.

Thing is, I don't mind Liches being a "defensive powerhouse" on the Railjack, I think it could be pretty cool having a stonk defender while you're about doing other things, BUT! They shouldn't take up a crew slot if that's the case. 

I think either one of two things should happen: 

They either become full crew members worthy of the slot, maybe having a bonus in skills or additional points to allocate. (So they are worth the grind for them) 

Or

They get their own "Lich Slot" that defend the Railjack or fight alongside you on POI/Missions (at your behest/order of course!)

As from what is said/seen right now, Converted Liches will likely not be used if or at all due to a normal crewmember being a lot more useful compared to a Lich. It's a real shame they didn't keep the class system they shown at Tennocon, would have felt right at home with something like that. 

I'm also hoping that those converted liches do pretty decent damage against RJ enemies, if not... well... ouch. 

Give our Converted Liches a bone DE!

[JalakBali]

9 hours ago, Quantum_Blur said:

Really bad move to put oberon parts into railjack drops.  He was an easily newbie-accessible healer frame, which is a commodity early-game.  If you're viable in railjack, you already have good enough builds that you don't need an oberon.

I agree.  Someone already said move Harrow parts here which I also agree since Defection is not a game mode that is farmable for the sane and unlucky.

 

I would suggest the following moves that would fit the lore:

- Move Oberon to Vay Hek since he's trying to mine on Earth thus uncovering the parts of the protector of nature. Also quicker access for newbies.

- Move Hydroid to Tyl Regor. He's in an underwater base. Nuff said.

- Move Equinox to Railjack since you can split her parts to multiple nodes types since she has 8 of them instead of 3-4 like regular frames. She's also very mod dependent and energy hungry, not a good frame for newbies.

- Move Harrow to anywhere except Defection.  That damn game mode that nobody enjoys because it's so slow and the worst parts of bodyguard missions.

[Quantum_Blur]

1 minute ago, JalakBali said:

I agree.  Someone already said move Harrow parts here which I also agree since Defection is not a game mode that is farmable for the sane and unlucky.

 

I would suggest the following moves that would fit the lore:

- Move Oberon to Vay Hek since he's trying to mine on Earth thus uncovering the parts of the protector of nature. Also quicker access for newbies.

- Move Hydroid to Tyl Regor. He's in an underwater base. Nuff said.

- Move Equinox to Railjack since you can split her parts to multiple nodes types since she has 8 of them instead of 3-4 like regular frames. She's also very mod dependent and energy hungry, not a good frame for newbies.

- Move Harrow to anywhere except Defection.  That damn game mode that nobody enjoys because it's so slow and the worst parts of bodyguard missions.

The equinox move is actually kind of genius and would make it so you could do targeted farming for each part (assuming they each dropped from a specific node, _and_ the information about each was somehow made clear)

but, as for the harrow systems (it hurts me to say this) I think the harrow systems being linked to disruption isn't gonna change.  I think they mean the struggle to be symbolic of the in-lore struggle from the harrow quest, as stupid as that sounds.

[nebfab]

Liches can only defend is actually such a weird decision that I went back and found the place in the stream vid where Megan explains this  just to be sure I didn't somehow misinterpret her...

 

Nope, it didn't go away, I didn't mishear or misinterpret, the only possible out is that she was talking without notes and didn't really mean it...

 

Here are her exact words, or at least YouTube transcript, in all its YT transcriptness:

 

Quote

09:18

a question actually fly by in chat

09:20

about and that is exactly the reason

09:23

why i'm doing kobe liches today i'm this

09:26

close to vanquishing

09:27

celody talir and it's all for good

09:29

reason because

09:31

come pc update corpus proxima and the

09:34

new rail jack

09:35

part of the command intrinsics i believe

09:38

i believe it's rank 8 in the command

09:40

intrinsic

09:41

don't quote me on that i don't have the

09:43

notes up because it actually

09:44

breaks my computer because it's the

09:46

google doc is so big

09:48

but within the command intrinsic once

09:50

you reach a certain rank you can

09:52

actually assign

09:53

a converted kuvilich that you have in

09:55

your inventory

09:56

uh to be part of your crew they can only

09:59

be

09:59

a defensive unit so they can't pilot you

10:02

can't have your kuva lich pilot your

10:03

ship

10:04

uh or uh you know put out malfunctions

10:08

on your ship as an engineer get on the

10:10

guns but

10:11

if you are boarded by an enemy they will

10:13

certainly

10:14

defend your rail jack so i can have uh

10:16

you know diddy back lack

10:18

by my side to defend my rail jack once

10:21

i've reached that command intrinsic rank

10:23

of course

10:24

but i thought i'm so close to

10:26

vanquishing celody to lear

10:28

let's get her out of here maybe i'll get

10:30

you know a better lich

10:31

better than diddy back lack i'm not

10:33

saying that's even a possibility

10:35

world oh my god who just said that

10:37

someone just said

10:38

uh broken sky 58 world's bop bippist

10:42

engineer that's exactly what i mean no

10:44

because they can't be an

10:45

engineer but if you have bop bip bip bop

10:49

whatever their name is

10:50

they can be a defensive powerhouse for

10:51

your rail jack and defend it from

10:53

you know the ram sleds from enemies

10:55

boarding your ship and all that jazz so

10:57

they will defend you

10:58

and they can be a part of your crew in

11:00

that aspect

ADD: It at different exact timestamp in the Twitch version of the stream, but it's close enough.

[Alpha_Tango]

 

My Converted liches...

After Dev Workshop...

10 hours ago, nebfab said:

Megan is talking Kuva lich crew on stream.

1) Command intrinsic (she thinks 8, not sure) required.

2) Liches can't do anything but fight: no piloting, repairing, etc.

Possibly a limit of just 1 lich per crew, but she's not sure.

That is a lot of effort wasted by us players just to make them our glorified security guards.  

[nebfab]

23 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Move Oberon to Vay Hek since he's trying to mine on Earth thus uncovering the parts of the protector of nature. Also quicker access for newbies.

- Move Hydroid to Tyl Regor. He's in an underwater base. Nuff said

Vay Hek is stealth-locked behind archwing (which is its own needless pain to get for newbies) but that would still be better than hiding Oberon in railjack.

[Slayer-.]

34 minutes ago, nebfab said:

Liches can only defend is actually such a weird decision that I went back and found the place in the stream vid where Megan explains this  just to be sure I didn't somehow misinterpret her...

 

Nope, it didn't go away, I didn't mishear or misinterpret, the only possible out is that she was talking without notes and didn't really mean it...

 

Here are her exact words, or at least YouTube transcript, in all its YT transcriptness:

 

ADD: It at different exact timestamp in the Twitch version of the stream, but it's close enough.

Little bit disappointing about the Lich crew, I thought solo we could use our Lich's, guess I'll just keep the ones I have converted in the past in the long term cryo unit. 🤨

[nebfab]

2 hours ago, (PSN)True_Reclaimer said:

You need a mech to do Orphix

Getting a mech is much harder than getting an amp

Your casual friends will quit immediately when they see they need to be Rank 5 in Entrati and max rank in Lloyd, on top of needing to farm hundreds of Isolation vaults for RNG part drops, on top of needing to mine thousands of rocks for the gems, on top of needing to spear hundreds of infested fish for the parts

Once again, another whimsical comment from someone new with less than 30 posts, no surprise they dont understand the complexities of the game systems nor can they grasp how this update will make things HARDER FOR EVERYONE, both vets and casual players alike

Only upside is you can buy mechs and now railjack with plat I guess... but youll still be missing all the mods and what not, so youd be better off buying the arcanes from trade for 10 to 20p each  

That's true, but I guess eidolons suffer from being a hokey-pokey boss fight that's difficult to solo, and in groups often played competitively, "hey, we did a kajillion x3 run just now!" which isn't really the sort of environment everyone likes. Also, the gear, while definitely not anything like a mech, can still be a considerable barrier: the weapon builds usually have lots of forma and typically aren't useful for anything else, most of the meta frames are either vaulted or difficult to get even as regular version (hello, Harrow) and then there's the Cetus Wisps Patrol...

 

Orphix isn't necessarily easier to get into (Mech is probably still more difficult to get than a meta eidolon setup) but I really hope it would be more chill and more soloable, simply because there's no built in timer.

[LillyRaccune]

Wow! Liches are going to be dead? If I can have my crew members AND at least one lich, okay. But if I have to give up a functional crew member for an elbow leech of a lich, not okay.

I mean, I won't freak out because the update isn't even here yet. I'll just have to wait an see.

...with the current way that I play solo Veil Proxima, Crewships never launch a single Ramsled. Only if I stray too close to an enemy base and they launch Ramsleds, but that doesn't pay for my lich's plane ticket.

Unrelated special request:

• Can we have a consumable item similar to Landing Craft Air Support charges? I would use them to summon my lich for 300 seconds or until they run out of HP.
• Just like Air Support, they have Cooldown Timer of 600 seconds.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

6 minutes ago, nebfab said:

That's true, but I guess eidolons suffer from being a hokey-pokey boss fight that's difficult to solo, and in groups often played competitively, "hey, we did a kajillion x3 run just now!" which isn't really the sort of environment everyone likes. Also, the gear, while definitely not anything like a mech, can still be a considerable barrier: the weapon builds usually have lots of forma and typically aren't useful for anything else, most of the meta frames are either vaulted or difficult to get even as regular version (hello, Harrow) and then there's the Cetus Wisps Patrol...

 

Orphix isn't necessarily easier to get into (Mech is probably still more difficult to get than a meta eidolon setup) but I really hope it would be more chill and more soloable, simply because there's no built in timer.

Lets get this clear- you can solo build an entire railjack, pilot it solo, kill all 100 fighters solo, hop out into your mech that you farmed and built solo and got the intrinsics to use it solo, then youre going to solo orphix which is best played in a group of 4, and has 36 waves which takes about 2 hours? Yet all that and people think it is easier than building an amp or shooting weakpoints on eidolons that I can solo all 3 in a half hour? 

Like I said, market and trade chat will be the "easiest farm" for casual players = anyone that thinks these changes arent nerfs/steps in the wrong direction

If the worst part of eidolons is the timer, then petition DE to remove it. I think locking it to a night cycle is foolish as well. But Orphix 100% has a timer, just in mission rather than global. I also find orphix feels much more repetitive and boring than eidolon hunts, so I will not revisit that content unless Im forced to (if DE adds new orphix exclusive drops that arent tradeable)

Most likely I wont play any railjack 3.0 either since it will continue to be an isolated content island. Im MR 30 and max intrinsics, plus have all arcanes max, so why would I care about farming oberon parts or even valkyr prime? Nothing new for vets, and too many grindwalls and timegates for casual players to make use of it

Railjack is pointless, and should be removed, so DE can bring back Raids and Solar Rail Wars

[nebfab]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)True_Reclaimer said:

anyone that thinks these changes arent nerfs/steps in the wrong direction

Nobody is actually removing arcanes from eidolons though, so whatever happens, arcane drops won't at least be really nerfed.

 

You have a good point though.

[LillyRaccune]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)True_Reclaimer said:

bring back Raids and Solar Rail Wars

If it was thrown out to bring back those, I could learn to live with it. Mixed emotions.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 minute ago, nebfab said:

Nobody is actually removing arcanes from eidolons though, so whatever happens, arcane drops won't at least be really nerfed.

 

You have a good point though.

 

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

If it was thrown out to bring back those, I could learn to live with it. Mixed emotions.

Just want to add - Raids were the original source for arcanes. And yeah I know eidolons will continue to provide arcanes as well. But personally I think The Quills should sell the arcanes they drop, as I have way more cores than I can ever use and my standing is maxed out, so theres no point to eidolons either now

Solar Rail Wars was literally using Frames in a War = WarFrame. It offered PVEVP content no other game had, and was a lot of fun, mainly just for bragging rights but offered easy 1 million credit runs for all players - casual and veteran alike. And it was FUN, because going up against the ultimate enemy = human players. Instead of the usual mindless AI hoards

Instead of nerfing raids and solar wars out of existence, then trying to turn warframe into pet breeding/fishing/mining/skateboarding/and now space ship flying...

DE should have expanded upon the core of Warframe and made it into the greatest 3rd person coop shooter mmo-lite. Instead we have a broken fashion simulator with a bunch of survival tasks and boring repetitive work that doesnt even fit into the core gameplay, much less the theme of space ninjas.

Warframe is less of a game now and more of a 2nd job. Nerfs and removal of rewarding missions like Gian Point = No Fun Allowed. Pretty soon we will have nothing left but solo railjack "races" and AI "friends" to replace the 61% of lost human playerbase from last August

[(NSW)Symberzite]

I hope they backtrack on the liches or at least change the system somewhat because if what Meg said is true they are pretty damn useless.

 

[Serafim_94]

3 часа назад, LillyRaccune сказал:

Jokes aside, I hope the liches are not doomed to the boxed existence of living in my codex and being forced to talk to Ordis.

Truly the fate worse than death.

Anyway, to summarize what seems to go live regardless of any feedback. This workshop is treasure trove of bad ideas and S#&$ implementations.

1) Flux energy change is horrible. There's no other way to cut it.

2) Plexus change seems bad. There is potential it won't suck live, depending on required resource sink, but I'm not hopeful. And I'm ready to bet it's going to be bugged up the ass.

3) Ensmallening of RJ interior I don't like. I kinda understand why it's done, but it's the wrong way to tackle the problem. They should have filled that empty space with something meaningful instead. Overall, I'd prefer an option to keep the current size.

4) Command intrinsic looks decent enough on its own, but the decision to functionally exclude liches from it is nothing short of idiotic.

5) Damage type changes seem inconsequential. Change for the sake of change.

6) Intrinsic changes seem either inconsequential, or, as with gunnery 10, idiotic.

7) Stamina, hazards and other minor gameplay stuff - eh...

8) New missions sound lame. There is some hope for exploration aspect, and loot dungeons mentioned above. But the mission types described in workshop look like they are going to be what galleon/asteroid assassinations are now -  just a regular mission plugged into RJ. Not exactly RJ experience. Like, I guess it's more stuff to do, which is welcome? We'll see at release.

Overall, whatever hype and expectations I had for this update is completely gone. Yay. Hope it won't suck too much.

[DrivaMain]

Seeing the news that Lich crew can only defend is a wasted opportunity. DE getting a converted lich requires more effort than getting a regular crew member. You need to summon a lich, do the 3 hour murmur grind, maybe an hour of Requiem Relic cracking just to get ONE lich. Regular crew? I can just swipe my MasterClemCard and buy all the crew ticker has because how easy it is to get credits and resources required.

You either make them function like a regular crew member or they do not take up a crew slot. Don’t disappoint those people who gathered a legion of converted liches DE.

[Arisaya]

Welp, only just found out about the compensation changes.. Guess I go from getting a bunch of stuff to getting nothing since I had built a lot of stuff, and as for my dirac, prioritized maxing grid slots last, and instead spread everything around.

Not the biggest loss but it is a rotten feeling. Basically 'oh, I'm getting an unexpected gift', followed by 'oh, it wasn't actually for me'. Oh well, I doubt theres going to be any concession for my edge case.

 

Hope that liches turn out more useful than what the recent discussion is indicating, but at best they'd likely get buffed in a patch later (at least for PC) simply since I dont know if theres time to change them this close to the patch coming out.

[nebfab]

15 minutes ago, Arisaya said:

Welp, only just found out about the compensation changes.. Guess I go from getting a bunch of stuff to getting nothing since I had built a lot of stuff, and as for my dirac, prioritized maxing grid slots last, and instead spread everything around.

Not the biggest loss but it is a rotten feeling. Basically 'oh, I'm getting an unexpected gift', followed by 'oh, it wasn't actually for me'. Oh well, I doubt theres going to be any concession for my edge case.

 

Hope that liches turn out more useful than what the recent discussion is indicating, but at best they'd likely get buffed in a patch later (at least for PC) simply since I dont know if theres time to change them this close to the patch coming out.

You can still max a few slots easily enough, probably not the full max grid but enough for T1 or T2...

 

ADD: That said, there were quite a few posts like that, so, to avoid that kind of situation, why not change the requirement to total dirac spent on grid? DE can still communicate it in terms of maxed slots for the ease of tracking, and T3 could still be max grid, so it won't matter there, but if someone was spreading dirac around the grid they'll still get something.