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Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack


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Most of this sounds good but there are still some issues . Such as , flux energy removal is unnecessary , and could cause some new metas of running high base energy frames . Also issues of frames such as lavos and hildryn. I say keep them in reactors but have a regeneration factor like archwings have . There’s also game flow issues of hopping out of pilot seat to dash for zenurik or pop a pad.

In the avionics change , it seems as if we can forma them and god please no . “Oh please bring an end to the horror” - simon , bloodborne. That just seems as if they’re adding a grind no one asked for . Also what about avionics mods such as forward artillery, does that mean I should always run it incase my teammates isn’t available to use it .  The grid was really nice honestly. 

Another issue I have which this is more personal but R10 gunnery still sounds bad . It’s annoying on console for me when it switches targets and the aim feels so forced . I think it still needs more touches . 
 

With the no stamina bar on railjack doesn’t that just mean we won’t have a need for certain engines since the boost speeds would be more desirable. 

My last issue is , what about those who just taxied a friend on veil and got their ship maxed that way therefore not having to waste resources on low mark wreckage’s  , does that mean we don’t get tier 3 rewards for the compensation even if we played hours of RJ?.

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I'm thinking about this a bit more and two things don't sit well with me. One is the energy drawing from Warframes instead of the ship. If you want to be Rhino or most tanky Warframes while you pilot so you can solo any boarders, this is a nerf. The energy available to you SHOULD be tied to the ship's reactor, and modified by your Harness via a "Railjack Efficiency" and a "Railjack Flow" mod and Tactical Intrinsics.

The other is that this still leaves Empyrean as a gameplay cul-de-sac. You want players to go back and forth? Mix up the reward tables. Here's an idea: make Nitain, Wolf Beacons,  and rare mods like Voltaic Strike into railjack rewards for non-Orphix missions. Instant incentive to play Empyrean. Put Rush drones into the Steel Path and Arbitration reward shops, and let invasions and alerts offer built reactors and other railjack parts. Rebecca's first post here talks about the "flow" of Warframe. What drives that flow is the incentive structure, where every mission has the possibility to make future content, even unrelated content, better or easier. The same needs to be true of Empyrean. Playing it should make you stronger for classic Warframe, while playing classic Warframe should make you stronger for Empyrean.

Edited by (NSW)Captain
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Quote

Player has Completed 1 or more Wreckage or Clan BP: Tier 1

1x Rush Repair Drone
2x Armament Slots
10 x Riven Slivers
Bonus Railjack Mods
- Munitions Vortex
- Battle Forge
- Particle Ram
- Void Hole
- Railjack Resource Bundle

Player has completed at least 12 Wreckage: Tier 2

- Everything in Tier 1
- 2x Rush Repair Drones
- 15 Riven Slivers
- 10,000 Endo
 -7 Day Resource and Affinity Booster
- Railjack Resource Bundle #2

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

I am confused on this. Have you been tracking any Wreckage completed regardless of whether or not it has later been scrapped, or do I need to own 30 completed Wreckage at the time of the update? If it is the latter, can I leave them unclaimed? I do not have the slots for 30 fully completed Wreckage.

I am not sure about this as a gauge of player experience with Railjack, as people might have focused on Mk III gear from the outset, but have all current mission nodes completed and high-ranked Intrinsics. Those latter two might be a better metric for experience, and less confusing since the meaning of "completed Wreckage" is in limbo with this "currently-owned vs. built-then-scrapped" issue.

EDIT: Early Adopter conditions have been changed in order to avoid confusion, rendering my questions moot.

Edited by NeoRetro10K
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20 minutes ago, SolidSnake8774 said:

Okay I feel the need to put my input here, as someone who was looking forward to railjack the most out of all the updates, and all the friends I got to play who also like it.

This really waay oversimplifies railjack, it really gets rid of the things that made initially love it, by homonogizing it. When we wanted it to be more linked to the rest of the game, this wasnt what ment, not mechanically, but in a manner that you can take railjack to for instance, manually fly towards a place to do missions or something on the way, or have more mission types incorperated into it.

Alot of the distinction that made railjack, railjack is has been simplified to a point where it doesnt even seem like nothing more but a bigger necromech now and less of a ship. 
I dont particularly like that the avionics have been turned to mods, and taken alot of the freedom to build it how you want (along with the grid system that kind of like overcharged slots).  The warframe energy being tied to the ships power. the conversion of diluc to endo where I perferred to keep those seperate so I can use my endo for mods for other stuff.

These changes feel like a big misunderstanding of what was being asked for on railjack. When said was simplifying it in the dev stream this was exactly what I was hoping not to do.


honestly the thing most of my friends wanted with railjack that I got into it, was simply just more of it. more things, more missions, more features to it.  they liked the dynamic. Even going back to the forge thing felt involved, where even someone wasnt that up to par with things, they would still have something to do.  It felt like you were actually maintaining a ship.  The individual railjack now doesnt even matter now, as the identity and commandering of the railjack is now gone, and now anyone that comes in as a host will now have to worry about someone trying to hijack thier ship with thier ideal mod setup, its bad enough anyone can just interact with navigation and force mission to end when out doing stuff. Captain of the ship already had little say.

The entire change to avionics, I dont know why so much work was done to basically make that so homogenized like the rest of the game, when it wasnt really a core issue to begin with. The people that was confused about how it worked, thats been an issue with warframe in general. Because warframe doesnt do tutorials. the same issues people had with not understanding how avionics worked (that started to learn to eventually)  is the exact same problem that happened when people first start playing warframe and doing modding in general.  Because that aspect is poorly explained if at all. So have to either slowly figure out on your own or get it explained to you by someone else via video or through dialogue, or text. 

 

Made the individual ships matter less too.  Like I understand the harness thing. But that takes away the ownerability and feel of running 'your' ship. If they implemented the harness thing like you had to go into a room and override the systems with yours with like a vote or something from the other players. Would be down for that. As well as just forcing the ship to go to wherever from navigation (since anyone can just go to navigation and port the whole team without the owner of the ships say). 

Now will have to worry about someone trying to hijack the my ship, because they're mod setup is  superior/meta at every second if I so happen to step away

The content thats coming. Thats what ive been waiting for since railjack came out, but the actual changes of railjack, Im mostly disappointed and rather astounded by all these changes that didnt really need to happen. Some qol things sure, but all these changes are just getting rid of the complexity that was the draw of railjack to begin with.

Everything else I didnt mention here, is either neutral or a positive in my light. Will just have to see how it turns out. But right of the gate, what I talked about above I already dont like, as the foundation of what was liked changed.

This 👍🏾 
Put everything out in a way I couldn’t. Our railjack has been gutted.. 

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I honestly feel bad for everyone who had enough patience and time to grind and repair 30 wreckage parts.

Our clanmate picked us up straight to Saturn, we saw the wreckage's costs and then went through it right to Veil Proxima after Mk.III gear, effectively ignoring all the Mk.I and Mk.II althogether, as the cost of progression from Mk.I to Mk.III in total was insane, and after that it was just one simple goal: grind the hell out of the objectives to get the best or close to it basic parts (Reactor, Shield Array, Engine). I didn't care of any armaments thanks to the avionics I had, as I have suffered from low-cap reactor. And even then, with all the grind I kept sorting out the best armaments and dissolving the worst, thus having no need to repair them. Honestly, I'm not even sure I repaired at least 10 of them :crylaugh: But ah well, at least the folks who went for that, will get their compensation :)

 

Also, I really liked the modding mechanics of Railjack (and its UI). I was really hoping for all the non-frame mechanics utilize it: Archwing, Mechs, K-Drive. Throw Dirac in, charging up the slots, then throw your avionics/mods in there for extra % juice. I mean, Avionics and Dirac were already considered Mods and Endo on the technical level *scratches his head* Sad to see it go.

 

Also, gonna agree with @SolidSnake8774

Main problem was the lack of content, there was a lot of feedback and ideas. But at the end of the day, it all came down to scratching it all and dumbing it down. Heck, building a ship was grind, but it was a justified one. It's a space ship, it's not a papier mache replice made of a bunch of Nano Spores and Annoy Plates (tho sure felt like).

 

Also,

Quote

Now will have to worry about someone trying to hijack the my ship, because they're mod setup is  superior/meta at every second if I so happen to step away

this is what's going to happen. As if countless ideas and missions that relied on team work didn't prove that there will be meta and toxicity towards players that just want to play the way they want to.

Edited by Thundervision
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1 minute ago, LordPreda said:

Small request, but could this update PLEASE give us the new Grineer Galleon model in the spacescapes outside of Railjack?

jeff-ross-grineergalleon-ship01.jpg?1562

This would be a nice addition for sure.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

or Clan BP: Tier 1

Would this imply that a clan that has a drydock with all things researched on it would get Tier 3 rewards ?

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Looks like a lot of good stuff here.  I have my reservations about some things but I'll wait until I get my hands on them before I jerk my knee too far out of it's socket.  However, I do have some questions about couple of the Intrinsic abilities:

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Necramechs Become Deployable in all Railjack missions.

Does this mean that Necramechs are only going to exist in open worlds and RJ or are there still plans to bring them into normal missions at some point?

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Aim snaps turret to lead indicator (lock-on lasts much longer than before, with small added cost to weapon heat)

If the goal was to change the "underwhelming" and "unpopular" intrinsics, why was gunnery 10 not changed completely?  I mean, granted, I saw some complaints that the lock on was too short to be useful.  Though, personally, my complaints with it and the reason I never bought it is that, one: locking on to the aim guide is only effective when in certain ranges, meaning a good amount of the time you can be more accurate without the game wrenching control away from you to "lock on", and (more importantly) two: I'd rather have an skill that improves my ability to play the game, not one that plays it for me.  At the very least it would be nice if there was a toggle for the ability so that those of us who don't want it can still waste the intrinsic points and get the mastery.

On another note, a suggestion concerning the command intrinsic (kinda concerned that lichs aren't mentioned but I'll wait until update 30 to see if that's tied in any more).  It would be cool if the Solaris captives in the corpus ship coin-op prisons tied into this system in some way.  Heck, it would be awesome if rescue missions tied into this system too!

In any case, the update looks great! Can't wait to get my hands on it.

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Looks really strong overall.

Couple of things we didn't hear about.

  • Any discussion on adjusting the speed of Intrinsic gain?
    • Reducing our ability to farm (Gian Point removal) and not adjusting acquisition speed will be potentially problematic.
  • Changes to what we can / can't do on board the Railjack.
    • Can we change frames / weapons via Arsenal
    • Salvage uneeded rewards for Dirac (now Endo)
    • etc.

Looking forward to it!

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6 minutes ago, Raptoreagle2000 said:

This 👍🏾 
Put everything out in a way I couldn’t. Our railjack has been gutted.. 

Thank you.  it had to be said. I feel very strongly about this.

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2 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

Please, please, PLEASE.

 

Let us mod our Kuva Liches, both weapons and Themselves.

 

As it stands, Kuva Liches are useless in missions other than as a meat shield. That’s great, but not 2-3 hour grind great. I want to have an ally, not an RNG lottery system of which lich appears to say a one-liner, and then leave.

 

If we could mod our Liches, like our Warframes, they could actually help us. This makes sense both  in gameplay and in story. What is the point of these allies if only we can put up the slightest resistance to the Sentients? Kuva Liches even struggle to kill Grineer at around level 50, due to armor. That is not what an immortal soldier should be doing.
 

Letting us mod our Liches would give a sense of unity, that our Kuva-infused allies are more than just tools. You talk about wanting to unify warframe content, so maybe make this the next step.

 

Ideas:

Lich Modding System

Whether it be new mods entirely, or mods we already have, consider allowing us to make our allies stronger.

Kuva Beacons

The fact that it is not only random who shows up, but WHEN a Kuva Lich shows up to help is not healthy.
 

Consider allowing us to craft Beacons to summon our Liches, either for a duration or for the entire mission. Allowing us to pick our Lich, like crafting specters, would allow endurance squads to have powerful allies.

The random appearance can be kept. A random surprise will still be nice, but not as useless if we can mod our Liches.

Kuva Beacons could be another way to spend Kuva for those who do not use rivens, and could be limited to one per mission, to avoid spam.

 

Tenno Honors
If you are interested in making money off of Liches, consider allowing cosmetic customization as well. Allowing use of different ephemera, weapon skins, and even armor/syndanas would signify that these Grineer have transcended their Queens’ iron grasp, and have joined the ranks of Tenno.

This would open the door for more premium cosmetics, such as deluxe bundles are platinum only, as well as Tennogen/mission reward exclusive cosmetics to be added.

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope you consider!

Maybe I could equip them in the companion slot instead of ONLY my smeeta and Carrier

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Feedback on workshop:

#1 lots of positives, good job on that.

What follows is the heavy concerns I have with this:

A) Scott said there would be a refund for players already invested... Reb's video left out certain resource refunds, are these going to be included?  Yes is the correct answer.

B) Malfunctions and Hazards is very sparse on details, this concerns me.  Generally speaking I've grown immune to Reb's PR speech and know that lack of detail either means it is going to release broken or be a severe debuff that will piss me off.

C) Hiring squad:

I thought we were going to be able to use our liches or is this not the case anymore?

Also I have a severe concern about A) the amount of RNG B) tying that to syndicates which is a more or less permanent choice for most players, meaning 1) the RNG may F me, 2) my syndicate choices from years ago may F me.  I don't like that idea.  There needs to be some guarantee here where I can always purchase someone with any given kind of skill and that it shifts regularly enough where I don't have to wait a million years.  I know how you guys screw us with RNG like this, DO NOT DO THIS HERE.  This is basically screwing players if you don't allow that players can potentially earn a top level crew in a few days to a week if they push, if it takes more than that, you're screwing the dog, not only that, but that should applicable not just for the first week, but all weeks to come after for newer players.  Simply put, I barely play anymore except when new stuff is released because you guys don't seem to get I'm over the artificial grind, and that's someone with 8k in mission hours and has supported you financially for years.  You've legit erased the notion of progression and growth in your game at this point to either A) not be relevant and easily bypassed or B) so absurd that it makes me want to play literally anything else.  Take some lessons from Valheim here, people will play your game more if you just design something that is fun, and while the core of the game is fun, it's also monotonous as F at this point and we need something new and interesting not only to do but to earn.

D) Hull materials was very sparse on details, what will happen to players who already invested in such avionics that will not be converted to mods?  Are you telling me I have to farm up from 0 again?  If so that's some BS and I'm not happy about it.

E) This section is VERY concerning:

3. What will keep me playing?
Corpus Railjack
Command
 New Missions


Let me be clear, you took everything I said in my response to scott's request for feedback and put it in here, literally all of it except for one crucial thing:  
We need NEW CRAP TO EARN THAT IS WORTH INVESTING TIME INTO.

corpus railjack will have new weapons, that's irrelevant, that's a separate system and I'm sure just like Liches, it will be a one and done system, likely generating the same amount of hate for the grind as liches did because you guys always overtune crap to hell and back for grind on launch, which is super not cool.  These weapons, are also likely going to be similar in that there will be one or two good ones worth getting, and the rest will be a chore, and all will have the chore of forma grind associated with MR, which sucks btw, and I hate it, as does everyone else.

Command doesn't keep me playing, it allows me to play solo.

New Missions will keep us playing for a few more hours till we understand the new method and learn how to destroy it like literally every other game mode, and then it will either become the new loot cave or be put into the category of missions we don't play unless it's to complete an objective for nightwave.

YOU NEED TO ADD NEW THINGS TO EARN THAT DO COOL NEW STUFF.

I want to see new RJ mods, new ship skins, new types of guns, new WHATEVER, I need something worthwhile to earn here.  Adding arcanes is nice, but in doing so that just makes it either more or less convenient of a farm than Eidolons, and in either case it drives the market down for those things, meaning you're not going to want to farm them for plat as much, just to get your own and be done, so that's not "long term rewarding thing".

The reason I mentioned in my feedback it needs to be "as rewarding as relics" which arcanes are not, is because relic farms are the best way to earn plat from players in the game timewise, and our time is the most valuable thing for us in the game.  If it isn't on par with relics, then it's not going to keep us coming back, it needs to be infinitely useful, constantly worthwile, and something that is worth doing more than the 1x we need to do it.  Additionally there is next to zero chance railjack relic busting will be worthwile because of the time it takes to crack a relic without rj.  Call me skeptical but I don't see RJ missions finishing sub 90 seconds.

I don't understand how you took everything I said and did it and ignored the part about incentivizing players to return and make it worthwhile for them by being actually rewarding.  This is like a straight up lynch pin of gaming design is the reward cycle of the gameplay loop.

Just in case it wasn't clear: YOU NEED SOMETHING NEW AND INTERESTING AND WORTH INVESTING TIME INTO FOR REWARDS TO KEEP US PLAYING.

EDIT:

Last things:  Aura formas should be applied to hired crew as well, if I'm playing solo I shouldn't be at a statistical disadvantage.  The disadvantage inherent in playing solo is reward acquisition rate, not statistical and numeric values for health/DPS.

Also I'd recommend cutting fire rate in half rather than 100% in total while sprinting for the pilot, otherwise you're making this into a stop/go thing, that's not how warframe functions, it needs to be high pace.  Cutting it in half means there is a risk reward set up, higher fire rate, but sitting duck, or more manuevering, but less DPS output.  Please fix that.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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One more observation for today: combining Dirac and Endo concerned me for a bit given how much Endo you need vs. how much Dirac.

Then I remembered how much Dirac you get every mission by melting dupe avionics and unnecessary wreckage and I realized this makes every railjack mission an Endo farm in addition to everything else. I am content with this.

Edited by (NSW)Captain
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20 minutes ago, kulow said:

If you want to be the host, you can force the game to make you host in some game modes

Please tell me how to force the game to make me host in non-railjack game modes.

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In regards to the hired guns for your railjack I have a few questions:

Are they affected by buffing abilities by your warframes?

Are they affected by buffing aura mods?

You can revive them right?

Do they get stronger the longer they stay with you?

Can you assign dedicated tasks to them?

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Honestly, I am loving what's coming to Railjack through both what I saw in the Video and also in the notes. This is a good start. Notice how I bolded the word start. Case in point, allow me to outline what needs to be fully done to make Railjack more enjoyable and likable for all. The first of important to note is:

Open World to Railjack gameplay through Railjack Bounties and Open World Switching.
 

Remember the Fortuna and Railjack reveal back in 2018? Remember how Reb was able to summon her railjack from inside the vallis and go straight to a node? Well, why not include that in this update, or with Corpus Queenpins? That way we can summon our railjack and enjoy more of the open world within going back and forth from the proximia back to the open world whenever we want to... though with a bit of a cooldown. The only requirement to switch back to the open world being finish the mission, dummy! You could even do bounties set by either Konzu from Cetus, Mother from the Necralisk (When Infested Railjack eventually comes out), ??? from the Duviri Paradox (IF Void Railjack comes out eventually), and Eudico from Fortuna, and earn better rewards in space from doing the Railjack Bounties. You can even earn lens while doing Railjack, making it much better to farm the lens from!

 

Squad Link (Kept ya waiting!)

This is a thing that needs to happen soon, whether with Call of the Tempestarii, or the Corpus Queenpins update, or a future Railjack update, but soon. We would love to intertwine what I put above with Squad Link, allowing open world players to help Railjack players out with missions by doing certain tasks on the open world side, as seen in the Empyrean trailer.

 

Multiple Railjacks and Railjack Summoning

We only have one railjack we can deploy in a mission, but why not deploy multiple? That way we can have multiple players piloting their own railjacks to help others out. I know we have Crewships, but the more railjacks deployed, the better off we'll all be. Now, about Railjack Summoning, what was that console that's in the southern (Depending on your point of view, I'm going north for this perspective) part of the drydocks? Why not give THAT a function, where we can have multiple railjacks and deploy the ones we want without having to switch out the weapon and design slots we like? Just sayin'...

 

I know I'll come up with more, but if you guys have your own ideas to this, let me know. Overall, I am excited about what's happening to Railjack, do not get me wrong.

Edited by Stickman949
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Just now, Leqesai said:

You should really bring your issues/concerns up in the actual dev workshop thread so the devs are more likely to see your post.

I did , just reposting here if it gets lost in the pile . But it definitely seems that these are the most common concerns .

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Couple of comments

Up the Dirac to Endo ratio please! A fully upgraded avionic costs about 6100 dirac right now. In the plexus this would become 31K endo. I think changing it to a 1:3 conversion ratio is going to be a lot better than what it is right now. And the system as it stands is forecasted to cost forma as well and with how long RJ missions are right now I think it is okay to make this change as it won't become a reason to nolife RJ between now and the release just to gather a ton of endo. 

Speed of the RJ-awesome stuff loving it. Especially combined with the changes with the hazards and flux energy. That was a pretty big gripe with me since a lot of the content took so much long to do solo. And having to constantly deal with a RJ taking damage and being exhausted out of all options other than the 60 second grace period upon reaching zero health.

Reduced resource requirements-okay with this as I am using my daily tribute resource boosters just for asterite.

Mission types-Okay with this. And please tell me you didn't just conveniently mention exterminate and defense without leaving out other mission types that are present in warframe( cough Mobile Defense cough cough).

Intrinsics-this is okay, is a nice addition but not that major honestly.

Early adopters-seems a little questionable to me. Not big fan the fact that we need to rebuild our RJ all over again. Super annoying. And the lack of clarification on the tiers like can I just build a bunch of Mk1 BPs and then get the T3 rewards?

Orphix-exactly as predicted a direct copy/paste from the orphix venom event except now with RNG arcane mission reward drops. Dislike this only because of forced necramechs/ mobile defense gameplay. I will just have to be forced to accept as a method of attaining arcanes.

Necramechs- You compare RJ to necramechs yet provided zero improvements to necramechs other than a measly 10% speed increase. Please give them some improvements too since they haven't seen very much usage and probably won't if given other options.

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5 minutes ago, Stickman949 said:

Multiple Railjacks and Railjack Summoning

We only have one railjack we can deploy in a mission, but why not deploy multiple? That way we can have multiple players piloting their own railjacks to help others out. I know we have Crewships, but the more railjacks deployed, the better off we'll all be. Now, about Railjack Summoning, what was that console that's in the southern (Depending on your point of view, I'm going north for this perspective) part of the drydocks? Why not give THAT a function, where we can have multiple railjacks and deploy the ones we want without having to switch out the weapon and design slots we like? Just sayin'...

This an obvious thing to do moving foward, but I'm assuming the reason it isn't implemented is simply technical hang ups from rendering so much crap.  I'm skeptical this can be completed in current gen to a satisfactory standard, let alone that WF devs could release it in a stable state, more like, released at christmas and left broken for two months.

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Just now, Klokwerkaos said:

This an obvious thing to do moving foward, but I'm assuming the reason it isn't implemented is simply technical hang ups from rendering so much crap.  I'm skeptical this can be completed in current gen to a satisfactory standard, let alone that WF devs could release it in a stable state, more like, released at christmas and left broken for two months.

Well, it'd be a nice option for those with maxxed command intrinsics and would love to deploy their crews along with others.

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