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Dev Workshop: Zephyr Revisit 2021 (Video Workshop)


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You know, if Railjack 3.0 was half as thought out as this I'd not have a lot to say.

 

Let me be really nit-picky though.  As such, there are a few things to consider.

1) The Zephyr tornado augment gave us twice as many of them, at a smaller size, with much faster speed and no pull.  Does it still function the same way?  You're effectively then asking for an augment with 25% less tornados, without the ability to grab enemies....so we're back to the augment actually being less than ideal.

2) The 150% is additive, multiplicative, or a base increase that does not stack?  I have to ask, because systems in Warframe seem to be all over the place.  If we're looking at a hover bonus going from 6% crit chance to 9% crit chance then there's not a lot to add here.  If it's 6% to 15% it's far more interesting.  If it can effectively stack instead of being an end of calculation addition it's insanely valuable.  So, what is it?

3) Finally, you've demonstrated suck....but the most recent update also added blow (to the air burst).  Is this still going to be the case?  You demonstrated a lot of suck, and that's great.  If we also had an area clear with blow it's entirely something more interesting.

 

 

So, kudos.  Minor questions to be answered, and my frame of choice gets the love she's need for about 7 years.  Only took multiple failed deluxe skins, prime release, prime vaulting, and two reworks for her to be more than a tap 3 to play because nothing else functions frame....yeah.  Still fantastic that Tornados no longer make enemies invincible, for release Vauban levels of team trolling.

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Now this is the rework she deserved for quite some time! I'm extremely happy right now. Been playing her a lot in the past, but then with all the new frames and reworks she kinda lost most of the usefulness. Turbulence was always good, but her CC was extremely inconsistent. This seems to fix a lot of those problems, and I'm especially happy with the added passive effect.

The only thing I always felt like she needed for QoL movement, especially in the open worlds, is the double jump refresh after Tailwind. Especially when chaining Tailwinds together when traversing long distances, double jumps would help with more control over your aerial movement, and also provide you with extra boosts of speed/distance without spamming Tailwind. I don't think this would break anything in terms of balance, and mostly would be of any use for open worlds, so I would really like to see this added, if possible.

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I like the deluxe skin, it's definitely different to what we had in the past, but what in God's name is with her back? (edit: I know what it is now xD) 

That aside, her new 1 seems interesting in regards to hovering around and being able to use our usual equipment. We'll see. :) 

Also, hello Pablo! 

Edited by (XBOX)TyeGoo
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29 minutes ago, ShiruBiru said:

I still think zephyr 4 shud be just one biga** stationary tornado with 15m base range, it will be way more effective as a CC point for the team and defence points.

THIS! 

Also: you've shown that enemies that die inside the tornadoes drop dead on the ground. Wouldn't it be cool if the tornado shot the corpses at high speed against other enemies, dealing damage according to the element of the tornado?

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Visual changes to Tornado as well as it "corpse release" feature make me very optimistic. Such changes are often even more important than number tweaks.

 

12 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

4500? That’s still useless in high level let alone dealing with high Railjack Enemies that has almost double the health. Make it scale by enemy level, please! 

From the information provided at this point, I fear Dive Bomb will become popular in near future. #1 augment adds 100% more damage for each enemy hit and it has no limit cap. Zephyr can jump into air, suck enemies into a pile with improved Airburst, prime them with Viral Nukor, Dive Bomb into a pile, rinse and repeat.

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There's one change that would do wonders, and I can't tell if that's the case.

Simply: Zephyr's tornadoes being cast to where the players cursor is. It's nice to be able to get stationary tornadoes, but why the spawning is a little awkward.

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11 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

It's a toggle. Press and hold for a moment to turn on hovering mode. You can then release the key and you will stay hovering as long as you have energy. You can stop hovering by using Tailwind, using melee ground slam, or using Jump

Hey where’s the anniversary event?

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17 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 



Tenno! Please watch our Video Workshop of Zephyr, or read on to learn about what's changing in Update 29.10.0 / Update 30 for Consoles!


Tail Wind
- Removed the hold-to-charge mechanic from the beginning, and instead made it so you can hold the ability at any time while in the air and it will toggle into hovering mode that holds you in flight while draining Energy every second. Hovering will now also allow you to move around instead of being fixed in place.
- We think the hold mechanic doesn’t work because standing still in Warframe is so dangerous in higher level content and the time spent holding is time lost shooting.
- Increased the damage of the Dive Bomb from 500 to 4500 base damage at Max rank, to better reward the time and skill it takes to effectively use it

Airburst
- Changed from a radial explosion that knocks enemies outward into a short duration vortex (like we did for Gauss’s Mach Crash Augment) so the pull is more reliable.
- We’re leaning on the pull mechanic as it synergizes great with Tornadoes since you can pull enemies into them.

Turbulence
- No changes!

Tornado
- Reduced the number of Tornadoes to 3 to prevent enemies from getting too scattered, and increased the pull of Tornado so enemies stay inside them more. The radius that Tornadoes will grab enemies was increased to include by default the synergy with Airburst; you no longer need to use Airburst on your Tornado to increase its pull radius. Finally, when you make stationary Tornadoes, they will appear where you are aiming instead of on top of random nearby enemies.  “Roaming” tornadoes still spawn on top of enemies.

Tornado feedback was composed of 2 main points:
- Tornadoes tend to overly spread enemies around. 
- The pull of the Tornadoes is pretty tame, so sometimes it pulls enemies in and just tosses them out the other end. If you shoot an enemy in the Tornado it will often just kick them out of the Tornado.

Passive
Zephyr’s aerial mobility bonus stays the same, and now she will also have a bonus of 150% to her critical hit chance while airborne.

General Zephyr Changes:
Cleaned up Zephyr’s ability FX for all 4 abilities, and added FX burst to the end of Turbulence (does not affect functionally). 
 

Anniversary event?

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All hail Pablo, the man with the Midas touch when it comes to reworks.

Jokes aside this rework is pretty much the kind of upgrade I really like, it just takes what is there, makes some small adjustment and improves what was good.

The 1 finally giving the player more control and doing actual damage and the 4 being more reliable. It seems like QoL changes first but go deep enough to actually change the reliability of the frame. My hat's off, great rework.

Though I wish the 3 would be a little more reliable against bombards, those still brutally wreck you in higher levels and the two doesn't have enough to differentiate from Ensnare and Larva, which are available on Helminth (and better), might try to give it something that makes it stand out. 
 

But yeah aside from that, looking forward to the next update a little more every day.

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14 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

Mandatory @Birdframe_Prime tag

 

Poggers

Thanks for that ^^

I saw this when they dropped it on Youtube, so I'm going to say here what I've said everywhere else for people.

Passive change:

Good. I'm guessing this is a regular mod style of 150% so it'll just stack with regular Crit mods you put on your guns. It'll push a few weapons into the 100% range, and still be a buff to the rest regardless. If DE were to give her Additive crit chance it would be a little better, but at that point I guarantee you they'd lower that percentage to about 15-20% instead, meaning that it would really only benefit those weapons with really low base Crit Chance.

Hover changes:

Yes, good, we have an air-brake for Tailwind at last, cancelling momentum and allowing us to actually stop when we need to. The drift in the air is exactly the kind of minor mobility the function needs to help out a hover, we don't need fast Hovering because this is supposed to be the bit where we stop and assess. The energy drain appears to be very low, maybe 1/second, and... why? Why is it a drain? Why not a Duration that we can just mod with everything else? Duration would allow energy regen, other frames' abilities and so on to actually restore us, but then still give that reminder that we shouldn't try to stay up there all the time. Meanwhile 1/second drain would mean that, with modding, a Zephyr Prime could stay up there for 6-10 minutes AFK... which seems weird to me.

Most importantly, though, I no longer have to squat, wait for three seconds, then fart out the lifting gas. That was the entire reason we didn't use that ability.

Dive Bomb changes:

Why? You boosted the base damage, which I get, but you didn't make that damage meaningful. Without any kind of Status or Multipliers, this ability will still be just a meme, Pablo even says so. It was the original ability that could have been improved the most over time, and it was just shuffled into her 1 with no regard for any meaningful functions. Yes it's easier to use, yes it has more damage, but why not make it combo? Air Burst the enemies and Dive Bomb them while they're affected by the ability to cause X function, for example. Why not give her a minor shield and armour strip on that to reward the combo?

Wasted opportunities on Dive Bomb, every time Zephyr gets updated.

Air Burst changes:

Good. Adds function to the ability, not sure why it even would have the (now) secondary burst mode, this should have been the ability from the start. I have no idea why DE introduced a radial, ragdoll un-grouping function on her 2 in 2018 when the ragdoll un-grouping function was removed from Tornado at that time.

Tornado changes:

I like them. The consistency of spawning, the better hold, the wider range, the Quality of Life change to have them drop the dead bodies (at last), all good. I'll gladly take the cut to 3 funnels if this is what the result is.

I am shocked and amazed that Pablo said that these funnels are basically what the current funnels should be after using Airburst to make them grow. Tested them for months for changes and the range on the capture was definitely not a change that this interaction did. As far as any of the four or five Zephyr mains out there could find, making the funnels taller did not affect their range. Was this just an undocumented function that was supposed to be in there, but never actually got in there because it was undocumented?

In any case, glad they're better now. That's a win in my book.

FX changes:

I run my Zephyr with darker energy colours so that the Turbulence FX do not interfere with my field of view when I'm not aiming. The update to give a little 'burst' effect at the end of Turbulence may do absolutely nothing to me or players like me. We were asking for some kind of audio cue, from the moment DE removed the constant sound effects that lasted for the entire ability, we just wanted to know when it ended in the same way we know when all the other abilities end (like Link, Shatter Shield and so on).

Speaking of not doing much...

The lack of Turbulence changes:

Why the heck not?

Turbulence is good, but the game is changing around Zephyr, just like it always does. More and more enemies are getting ways to bypass the Turbulence shield. Corpus now have a unit with flame-throwers, the Grineer have more flame throwers, and now the Infested have 'thrown melee' which has always gone through Turbulence because it's not a 'projectile'. Particle projectiles are literally the most dangerous type of projectiles and a barrier that deflects projectiles does nothing against them, this doesn't make sense to me.

Taking Zephyr to Deimos should not have been a great trial with the CC and weapons you can use with her, but the Jugulus enemies throw glaives at you for their 'projectile' attacks, and Turbulence literally cannot deflect them, meaning the one enemy with custom Damage Reduction on that world also has bypass to the defense that this frame has.

And then there are the new Corpus units with full-auto AoE rifles. Even if you deflect them with Turbulence, it's no different to a full-auto Bombard, because if it impacts too close it still gets you, and it fires on full auto so the single second you have to react after your Shield Gate kicks in doesn't matter because there's already four more projectiles exploding around you to kill you.

Turbulence really does need an update and repeatedly saying it's fine as-is doesn't cut it.

tl;dr

Thanks for the update DE, some of the things here really will improve my favourite Warframe.

I still think this won't help as much as you think it will and Zephyr definitely needs a few pick-me-ups to push her into the state that will make more players love her the way I do... well... maybe not the way I do, because I have a deep, abiding stubborn streak that makes me play the frame even though I sometimes absolutely hate her.

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19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno! Please watch our Video Workshop of Zephyr, or read on to learn about what's changing in Update 29.10.0 / Update 30 for Consoles!

Does this mean that PC will be getting these changes when the Railjack changes hit?

 

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10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

3) Finally, you've demonstrated suck....but the most recent update also added blow (to the air burst).  Is this still going to be the case?  You demonstrated a lot of suck, and that's great.  If we also had an area clear with blow it's entirely something more interesting.

Just noticed this while scrolling through. Sorry, my friend, it's the opposite.

The Succ on Airburst was added the most recently. 2018's update added the blow, which was a very weird choice considering they'd just removed a similar function from Tornado. The succ version we've seen in this thread was genuinely what rework-thread posters like me were asking for in some variety since 2016/17.

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Seeing Zephyr's 1 changes annoys me as Hildryn player. It's just better than Hildryn's 4 in any important way. Can we get rid of that Balefire only restriction and not casting Pillage in her 4 now too or scrap her 4 all together? Apparently it's not considered imbalanced to be able to use weapons and cast defense reduction and cc in a mobile mid-air state ability while having cc as well (I mean Titania could do most of it already too).

Seeing these changes makes me just want to put Fireblast on Zephyr and play her as better Hildryn instead.

Better mid-air ability, actual guns in mid-air that also are getting buffed, ability/ies to group up enemies, can cast what I want in mid air, projectile immunity with turbulence, melee "immunity" mid-air. I'd even argue that having energy instead of shields as resource is better in the shield-gate meta and on higher levels where you lose all shields after one hit anyways as Hildryn and then can't cast anymore to regain shields unless you have a Pillage out in that moment which means you spam Pillage.

With that whining out of the way: looks promising. Currently I'd probably replace her Tornadoes via Helminth.

Edited by (PSN)Deeceem
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i don't understand how controller players are ment to hold her 1 ability down to hover and aim at the sametime??

cos if we have to hold down the B(NS)/A(xbox))/X(ps) buttons to hover with our right thumb we can't aim??

its the same problem that happened with necramechs hovering and aiming with controllers at the sametime.

i hope they read or realise this issue and find a solution for controller players.

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Taipan20 said:

i don't understand how controller players are ment to hold her 1 ability down to hover and aim at the sametime??

cos if we have to hold down the B(NS)/A(xbox))/X(ps) buttons to hover with our right thumb we can't aim??

It is a toggle that you use while airborn.

 

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2 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Just noticed this while scrolling through. Sorry, my friend, it's the opposite.

The Succ on Airburst was added the most recently. 2018's update added the blow, which was a very weird choice considering they'd just removed a similar function from Tornado. The succ version we've seen in this thread was genuinely what rework-thread posters like me were asking for in some variety since 2016/17.

To qualify, that is also incorrect.  Prior to the rework with Tornados, the air burst did neither suck nor blow.  What it did was ragdoll.

 

Why then do I consider that the suck version existed before?  Well, as I'm qualifying it the suck is crowd control and the blow is area denial.  It's technically not suck, but as the ragdoll was also crowd control it was the closest analog.  I didn't spend the paragraph explaining this, because most people have quite rightly forgotten the garbage that Zephyr once was.  That's calling her garbage, and my top two frames by usage are Zephyr Prime and Zephyr (in that order) at MR 30.  I figured stopping the conversation dead was pointless....but fine. 

 

I've also not highlighted that the Tornado as implemented sucked enemies up, and made them invincible the second they were under the influence.  They then got dropped...and had a short window to do some minimum amount of damage.  I didn't actually make note of this, because it hasn't been a thing for more than two years....because the Zephyr rework came with the Prime release.   Apparently I had to outline this too....but another paragraph about a long gone power structure was too verbose.

 

 

Ironically, still no answer to the question exists.  So....why are we quibbling over the definitions?  Are we losing the blow?  The current Tornados do have some area denial, but losing a function of a power needs to be noted...if only for posterity and so we understand the full impact.  

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So, if you're buffing tornadoes radius, then what's the point of spawning them in pack of 3 at once? Make it spawn one and with maximum of 3 placed at the same time. Like with Frost & Khora's domes. it will be more effective and flexible. 

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26 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Ironically, still no answer to the question exists.  So....why are we quibbling over the definitions?  Are we losing the blow?  The current Tornados do have some area denial, but losing a function of a power needs to be noted...if only for posterity and so we understand the full impact.  

It's possible I'm misunderstanding the question, but if it's about Airburst keeping its dispersion option, that was answered upthread:

 

16 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:
17 hours ago, (NSW)WesFX said:

Oh, one quick thought: is the older sort of function gone from Airburst? To scatter enemies away from the center point?

No, this is still present.  Tapping Airburst will pull enemies together, while holding the key will blast them outward.

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17 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

The Hovering is interesting but I think it would benefit immensely from one of the changes that Hildryn got which was the dodge while on her 4 (which costs "energy" aka shield). I wouldn't mind of it costs energy but a short dodge would complement her movement while hovering (and complement the argument for the change which is that standing still is dangerous, but her hovering speed won't save you from that either, but dodging might), rather than relying only on her 1 which might move too far.

 

Otherwise, looks good.

You can probably just press 1 again? But yeah, a dodge might be great. Would need to check this on live myself to make proper decision.
Tornadoes still seem a bit useless, but if the damage Pablo advertised works, Dive Bomb might become an interesting skill.
I think that Tornadoes should have a similar effect to her 3 (absorbing enemy projectiles in a radius) which, with the fixed tornados might make her viable for defence type missions, creating a wall that prevents projectiles from getting to the defence target, and pulling melee enemies inside.
Would also be a interesting team defense thing creating utility akin to volt's shield, maybe a new version of the augment?

 

16 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

this deluxe....not for my taste.

True, its kinda ugly.... But i'm getting it for all the other stuff that comes with it...
 

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