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Dev Workshop: Zephyr Revisit 2021 (Video Workshop)


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On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:


- Removed the hold-to-charge mechanic from the beginning, and instead made it so you can hold the ability at any time while in the air and it will toggle into hovering mode that holds you in flight while draining Energy every second. Hovering will now also allow you to move around instead of being fixed in place.

On 2021-03-10 at 3:08 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

It's a toggle. Press and hold for a moment to turn on hovering mode. You can then release the key and you will stay hovering as long as you have energy. You can stop hovering by using Tailwind, using melee ground slam, or using Jump

On 2021-03-11 at 1:33 AM, AdunSaveMe said:

Is there any reason this can't be a double tap instead? Is there any reason we can't have the option to make all held inputs and charges a double tap? Holding down keys for abilities in this game REALLY sucks. It's so awkward and sometimes outright painful. And those are abilities that you aren't trying to time an activation at the right height.

Why not just tap to break and hold to divebomb? Divebombing seems like thing that can "wait" a little bit. On the other hand Break, in my opinion, should be quick, hence tap (instead of hold).

On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Airburst
- Changed from a radial explosion that knocks enemies outward into a short duration vortex (like we did for Gauss’s Mach Crash Augment) so the pull is more reliable.
- We’re leaning on the pull mechanic as it synergizes great with Tornadoes since you can pull enemies into them.

Do both version works similarly? One version creates vortex that pulls enemies in, like in the video. Other version push enemies away. Does the "push away" create vortex that push enemies away?

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I really hope that jacket thing is an aux that can be removed from the deluxe or is a syandana.  It's complete deal-breaker in combination with a mecha-styled look.  The rework is looking amusing though, particularly the idea of floating around and flinging crit-boosted explosives at everyone.

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The new Tail Wind Hold to hover mechanic seems to look useful in the video, albeit it seems a bit slow. Aside from this, Tail Wind is still plagued with the same issues since it was updated, animation locked, uncontrollably fast and cannot be cancelled.

The change to the Divebomb's angle is actually terrible and will worsen how Zephyr can mobilize, every time Divebomb triggers an animation plays upon landing which prevents Zephyr from performing any other action, so this change will actually be very detrimental and I strongly suggest this is removed and possibly kept as it is already.

The change to it's damage is a band-aid and it may easily be over-tuned, 4500 damage for jumping, looking downwards and pressing 1? Seriously?

Airbust's vortex change is fine, I still believe the projectile feels too slow. Does it also come with a short duration "Push" vortex?

Is the "Synergy" for casting these 2 abilities when Airborne or after pressing Space Bar once being removed so they simply cost half their current values?

Turbulence, personally, with Zephyr's mobility I believe it not to be such an important ability, it lasts too long for the few times you don't want to get shot, anyhow, it's good no nerfs are on it.

The changes to Tornado are the best thing that finally will be coming for Zephyr, Tornadoes dropping dead enemies is good, increased pull range is great and removing the synergy to "enhance" them is gone, it's really good. However, on the video it is shown when static casting tornadoes 3 of them appear in a triangle formation. If this is the only way they spawn when casting static tornadoes, is it possible to just simply have a Single Large Tornado in it's place?

About the Passive this is simply absurd and unnecessary, again, another band-aid fix that has no good reason to be, previously on a Devstream they mentioned Zephyr would have a scaling Crit chance buff passive the more time she spent airborne. However, what is mentioned now is she simply gains a 150% Crit chance buff by pressing the space bar once, this "passive" is nothing that synergizes with her kit, it's simply a way to overtune Zephyr and I will beg of you to add instead the previously mentioned scaling passive or none at all.

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On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Turbulence
- No changes!

god bless ya! else i would have to put my flappy bird down for good ^^)

On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tail Wind
- Removed the hold-to-charge mechanic from the beginning, and instead made it so you can hold the ability at any time while in the air and it will toggle into hovering mode that holds you in flight while draining Energy every second. Hovering will now also allow you to move around instead of being fixed in place.
- We think the hold mechanic doesn’t work because standing still in Warframe is so dangerous in higher level content and the time spent holding is time lost shooting.
- Increased the damage of the Dive Bomb from 500 to 4500 base damage at Max rank, to better reward the time and skill it takes to effectively use it

yes, the hold-to-charge was indeed a bit too.... cumbersom... to use. the change of dive bomb damage is also appreciated but something that would also scale with the enemies level would be far more usefull than a fixed value (nothing overpowered but since you already mentioned 'higher level contend' i wnated to state this too ^^)

one thing that always bothered me though, is why did not think of just letting us use tail wind asa long as we press the ability button of it? this would be more like gauss on the ground then and less prone to let us smash against some car windshields like a fly.... ah ok, i meant crashing into walls all the time (yes, i use a high duration birdy here and so often stuck on some walls that i could go for a loki-wall-hugger ^^)  i would be fine with even energy cost per second for this or this as an augmentation (but then as an exilus mod please). #savebirdsfromwindowcrashing

On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tornado
-...

i wish you would just make it one big cyclone (or hurrican if you want ^^) instead of those little whirrwinds a stationanry storm would be a nice defense option for her (yes, i know that zephyr is a light/gentel west wind and not a tempest but anyway ^^)  this would be a bit similar to frosts snow globe though wouldn't be blocking of incoming fire but 'only' divert it somewhat (not as much as turbulence though) - like maybe, depending on the projectiles speed (meaning, a beam would just go through a hitscan projectile would have a small chance to miss the intended target when passing through the storm wall and a slow moving one like a bombards rocket a big chance to miss). might be also a nice idea as another augment for this ability and somewhat opposite to the 'funnel clouds' we already have.

On 2021-03-09 at 8:28 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Passive
Zephyr’s aerial mobility bonus stays the same, and now she will also have a bonus of 150% to her critical hit chance while airborne.

now that sounds sweet! B52 bomber incoming!!!

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On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

uncontrollably fast and cannot be cancelled

Except by the new Hover...

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

The change to the Divebomb's angle is actually terrible

I disagree, but do feel it needs a visual indicator, like on the aiming reticle, that shows the difference between a Tailwind and a Dive Bomb. It always has needed that.

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

The change to it's damage is a band-aid

Agreed, though.

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

Is the "Synergy" for casting these 2 abilities when Airborne or after pressing Space Bar once being removed

Apparently not, they would have said so otherwise.

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

Turbulence, personally, with Zephyr's mobility I believe it not to be such an important ability, it lasts too long for the few times you don't want to get shot, anyhow, it's good no nerfs are on it.

If anything, I'm upset that there's no consistency buffs. There are now multiple 'projectiles' in the game that count as 'thrown melee' and bypass Turbulence completely, a couple of seeking projectiles from things like Scrambus that do the same. Particle weapons like Flame Throwers are still unaffected by Turbulence, and there are now enemies like the Juno Elite crewmen who have fully automatic weapons with AoE damage that simply kills straight through Turbulence if it impacts anywhere near you (at least with Bombard rockets they're slow projectiles and fire slowly, the Crewmen are full-auto so there's four more projectiles already impacting near you after the shield-gate fails).

Honestly, Turbulence is getting the game moving out from under it, just like a lot of the older abilities are.

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

The changes to Tornado are the best thing that finally will be coming for Zephyr

Wholeheartedly agree.

But did you notice with the spawning? It's not always the same arrangement. It's always a triangle because there's three of them. It's not consistent around the radius from the spawning point. Importantly, I believe the funnels are still going to have the 'roving' versions on the other half of the cast, so that's why it spawns three every time. No point coding in just one big one when three spawns in a pattern will actually cover a larger area than the big one would anyway.

On 2021-03-15 at 7:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

About the Passive this is simply absurd and unnecessary

Unnecessary, yes, absurd, no.

150% Crit chance, which at that percentage must be adding like a mod would, not a flat additive chance, and is not all that overpowered. Depending on the weapon you're using that could be great, or it could be terrible.

I think the reason they didn't do a scaling one is because of the genuinely surprising amount of time Zephyr can be in the air with that new Hover. The drain on it is so low that a Primed Flow and a little Duration + Efficiency could have you in the air for around 10 minutes. If they did a scaling version, it would guaranteed have to cap out. And if DE decided that it capped out at 150% anyway, then what would be the difference? A few seconds longer charge up? You know that wouldn't matter. People would just hover for a few seconds and get that full benefit regardless.

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4 hours ago, Formous said:

Will this come with the railjack update?

Well, the original post says that PC gets this in Update 29.10.0 (which is the next update with Railjack stuff), and that Consoles get this with the mainline Update 30. So... yes.

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On 2021-03-15 at 4:44 PM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

 

About the Passive this is simply absurd and unnecessary, again, another band-aid fix that has no good reason to be, previously on a Devstream they mentioned Zephyr would have a scaling Crit chance buff passive the more time she spent airborne. However, what is mentioned now is she simply gains a 150% Crit chance buff by pressing the space bar once, this "passive" is nothing that synergizes with her kit, it's simply a way to overtune Zephyr and I will beg of you to add instead the previously mentioned scaling passive or none at all.

Thematic passives are the worst in the game right now. From the top of my head I could mention banshee's 

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18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Well, the original post says that PC gets this in Update 29.10.0 (which is the next update with Railjack stuff), and that Consoles get this with the mainline Update 30. So... yes.

That's good to hear. I haven't found any info about Zephyr in Dev workshop nor "Where is my update" thread.

There is at least one thing that I'm excited.

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26 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Hey... guess what?

... Update's today ^^

Guess what? I've been waiting for 6 hours (I know it's only 2 for DE) for the update. Probably few more hours more. ^_^

I had to download it earlier because it will take a lot of time with ~5GB estimated (by someone) update.

... Well, at least it's Zephyr change.

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I love the front of Zephyrs jacket, I hate the back of her jacket, the fact its constantly "up" looks terrible.

Instead should have made it animated, so anytime she uses her abilities the jacket "flares up" then goes back down. 

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On 2021-03-16 at 3:20 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

But did you notice with the spawning? It's not always the same arrangement. It's always a triangle because there's three of them. It's not consistent around the radius from the spawning point. Importantly, I believe the funnels are still going to have the 'roving' versions on the other half of the cast, so that's why it spawns three every time. No point coding in just one big one when three spawns in a pattern will actually cover a larger area than the big one would anyway.

After a bit of playtesting the tornadoes won't always spawn in a triange.

The one point in consistency to code a bigger tornado with different values for pull, height and damage would be one only: to consistently spawn a single chokepoint or pull point that covers a similar or equivalent area to the 3 tornadoes.

 

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12 hours ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

The one point in consistency to code a bigger tornado with different values for pull, height and damage would be one only: to consistently spawn a single chokepoint or pull point that covers a similar or equivalent area to the 3 tornadoes.

After testing, this is likely for the same reason as it always has been; to do this, you would basically create Vauban's Vortex with a skin on it, rather than the (at least marginally) more thematically different version we have now.

I can see the logic in what you're saying, but here's the question you have to ask: After seven years, fifteen patches that affected Zephyr before 2018, the side-grade rework then, and now this actual, functional rework to the ability now... If DE were going to do a single Tornado funnel that could sit stationary, they would have.

It's safe to say that, regardless of the logic, DE aren't going to.

It's the same as the basic logic that we've had with other frames and even with Zephyr's other abilities. Dive Bomb has one of the most exploitable 'trigger' mechanics that the game knows of (a radial damage burst with a set range that affects every enemy within it), and we know it works because of Target Fixation offering buffs based on the number of enemies affected. But instead of actually giving it meaningful functions, like force-multipliers within the kit (affect enemies with Air Burst or Tornado, Dive Bomb for greater effect, as an example) or guaranteed effects beyond damage and knock-down... all they have ever done is buff its base damage.

Now... I've been testing Target Fixation, and with the new Air Burst I'm actually torn, because the higher base damage with this Augment is actually very good once you multiply it like that... But praising them for an Augmented version of an ability just sits wrong in my mind...

I'll tell you what you might want to try for Tornado instead is the Augment for it. In Steel Path I've been using it on grouped enemies, since the high amount of additional tiny-nado funnels means they spawn in a much more consistent pattern, to almost make enemies explode (depending on the elemental modding). The ability to throw in something silly like the primary Gaze Kitgun, which has a lovely AoE pattern at the end, means you hit all of the funnels and they hit all of the enemies... And with something like the Fulmin on pure Electric damage, literally causes feedback loops of the Status to blow up groups.

There are things about this rework that I'm upset with, and still need to be done.

But I'm honestly enjoying the massive boost to consistency that we've managed to get.

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This is great. Cherry on top for what I was already using.

Resonator 1 Zephyr has been very serviceable CC and survivability (after all helminth bugs were fixed) when the tanky bois (e.g. Revenant, Inaros, Wukong) are too humdrum or lacking in CC needed for a specific mission type. Just gotta keep an eye on the timers and keep the energy flowing. (Resonator is close-range CC, Turbulence is projectile protection, esp. with higher range, and Airburst/Tornado are situationally but frequently useful.) Turblence already made her ideal for those Fortuna bounties that have you defend a mobile drone, but the helminth system has been a great CC boon.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2021-03-24 at 7:58 PM, Scorn said:

but the helminth system has been a great CC boon.

If it's Helminth abilities you're looking into, there are two great ones.

1. Wisp's Breach Surge for radial blind CC and the damage ramping; it's great on its own, it's great with Zephyr's new Passive, it's great for standing on a Defense point and combining with Turbulence to just deny the entire area to enemies. If you combine this with the new Tornado it's virtually limitless damage.

2. Mag's Pull for enemy displacement; since Air Burst is functional, but very poor range, using Pull instead allows you to displace whole swathes of the enemy for that quick, inexpensive CC that really helps with runs that aren't based around killing (like Interception or Rescue). Then of course you can yank enemies into the new Tornado, which is very good at catching them out of the air for longer-duration CC and the damage boost.

Either one of these exploits what is, right now, the real powerhouse of her kit, but remains functional abilities even without that.

As a third option, Mirage's Eclipse allows Zephyr to be a genuine boss killer for the Orb or Eidolons... but Eclipse is good on every frame that could go to the big bosses. Zephyr just combines it with Turbulence to avoid all the projectiles that fly about so much.

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