Fixing the Umbral Polarity

[fatDOX8-EGT-]

i haven't used one single Umbra Forma because it always would kill some other build

so:

the Umbral Polarity could be a second Polarity to a slot/mod, which solves that problem

also would remove the extra cost from putting Umbral Mods on slots with non-blank polarity

 

or that old idea of the Universal Forma that turned into the Aura Forma, could now be an upgraded Umbral Forma

 

PLS

[BiancaRoughfin]

Personally i see no problems with the Umbral Mods, considering most of the good builds with 2 Umbral mods can be done without any Umbral Polarities and the most you might need is 1 Umbral Polarity. There is also the fact that Umbral Mods are naturally a sort of Primed mod that upgrades the more of them you have equipped.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, fatDOX8-EGT- said:

i haven't used one single Umbra Forma because it always would kill some other build

so:

the Umbral Polarity could be a second Polarity to a slot/mod, which solves that problem

also would remove the extra cost from putting Umbral Mods on slots with non-blank polarity

 

or that old idea of the Universal Forma that turned into the Aura Forma, could now be an upgraded Umbral Forma

 

PLS

Umbral builds are not ideal for all warframes/setups. In the case that you WOULD want to use umbral mods you typically only use 2/3, so one umbra forma is all that is needed most of the time. 

I have never encountered a situation where I've used an umbra forma and thought "jeez now I can't put a non umbra mod in that slot."

The issue you bring up is a non-issue. If for no other reason than either vitality/intensify can be used in that slot. They are used in almost all builds so it is -very- unlikely you'd ever be messing around with your builds to the point that you've messed it up because you've got an umbra polarity mod slot in the way. If you've used 2 umbra forma then sure it is more likely you've made it hard to do multiple builds, but I'd argue there are only a small handful of builds that would require more than one umbra forma.

[Famecans]

Umbra mods and polarities need to be expensive, ironically for the cost of capacity these mods are like unique sacrifices, the meta build

@offtopic interesting your suggestion, for me it appeared as a brainstorm for a possible stacking of mods in the same slots, Forma or Mods 2.0

[Steel_Rook]

I'm still of the opinion that polarising slots to just ONE polarity severely limits build diversity, but I think that ship has already sailed.

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, fatDOX8-EGT- said:

i haven't used one single Umbra Forma because it always would kill some other build

so:

the Umbral Polarity could be a second Polarity to a slot/mod, which solves that problem

also would remove the extra cost from putting Umbral Mods on slots with non-blank polarity

 

or that old idea of the Universal Forma that turned into the Aura Forma, could now be an upgraded Umbral Forma

 

PLS

Your build is not efficient if an Umbral mod kills your builds... maybe you should adapt your builds to include it?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Heck, this would all be fixed if DE made 2 major QoL changes to the modding system, both highly wanted by most:

• Allowing for different polarities in different tabs of a same gear item;
• Allowing for more than 1 polarity in the same slot, allowing for greater build diversity as we invest more time and effort into a frame.

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

Heck, this would all be fixed if DE made 2 major QoL changes to the modding system, both highly wanted by most:

• Allowing for different polarities in different tabs of a same gear item;
• Allowing for more than 1 polarity in the same slot, allowing for greater build diversity as we invest more time and effort into a frame.

This really isnt an issue though. Having multiple forma on every single frame and melee weapon I can tell you I've never encountered the problem that the TC describes. This has less to do with issues inherent to the current polarity system and issues more related to how people are choosing to forma their warframes/weapons.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

53 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This really isnt an issue though. Having multiple forma on every single frame and melee weapon I can tell you I've never encountered the problem that the TC describes. This has less to do with issues inherent to the current polarity system and issues more related to how people are choosing to forma their warframes/weapons.

Correct. This isn't an issue for the most part, as it only happens when a player goes too deep and specific into modding a single gear piece. But still, if we had such QoL changes it'd greatly promote modding fluidity and liberty for players. Even allowing for very niche and different builds within the same gear piece _{(eliminating the need to invest in a second identical gear piece, which seems ludicrous to me but some players actually do it)}, not restricted by the polarities you happen to have on your main build. I mean, if I choose to forma my frame/weapon I shouldn't really be restricted more as I go deeper and put in more effort. I can't say this is a major bother to me, but it has happened one or two times in the past and I felt a tad disappointed since I could not have the specific build I was aiming for due to it being incompatible with my main build. 

An example of this comes to mind. I have an Umbral Forma on my Gauss's main build. But I wanted to make a build fully intended for speedrunning tilesets (say, kill a boss and get out - rinse repeat). Such a niche build doesn't need any HP/PS/Armor (at least for me), so an Umbral Slot is wasted right there, and if I wish to put something else there I'll be penalized. Of course I do have that build made and it works, but it iffs me a bit since I could have something more utility-based in the Umbral slot. As I said, not a great issue, but stillone I'd be very happy to see addressed.

Besides, despite the fact that today's Umbral Mods target only Power Strength, HP and Armor, I am willing to bet that someday we'll see the likes of Umbral Redirection and other such mods aimed at less tanky frames. Which means this issue may target some more frames as we progress into the future.

I'd also suggest that DE implemented an universal forma, but something tells me those wouldn't be better than just using regular formas and accumulating polarities across slots and build tabs. I am fully certain such a forma would be a PITA to farm, specially in the first few years after it's released.

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

Correct. This isn't an issue for the most part, as it only happens when a player goes too deep and specific into modding a single gear piece. But still, if we had such QoL changes it'd greatly promote modding fluidity and liberty for players. Even allowing for very niche and different builds within the same gear piece _{(eliminating the need to invest in a second identical gear piece, which seems ludicrous to me but some players actually do it)}, not restricted by the polarities you happen to have on your main build. I mean, if I choose to forma my frame/weapon I shouldn't really be restricted more as I go deeper and put in more effort. I can't say this is a major bother to me, but it has happened one or two times in the past and I felt a tad disappointed since I could not have the specific build I was aiming for due to it being incompatible with my main build. 

An example of this comes to mind. I have an Umbral Forma on my Gauss's main build. But I wanted to make a build fully intended for speedrunning tilesets (say, kill a boss and get out - rinse repeat). Such a niche build doesn't need any HP/PS/Armor (at least for me), so an Umbral Slot is wasted right there, and if I wish to put something else there I'll be penalized. Of course I do have that build made and it works, but it iffs me a bit since I could have something more utility-based in the Umbral slot. As I said, not a great issue, but stillone I'd be very happy to see addressed.

Besides, despite the fact that today's Umbral Mods target only Power Strength, HP and Armor, I am willing to bet that someday we'll see the likes of Umbral Redirection and other such mods aimed at less tanky frames. Which means this issue may target some more frames as we progress into the future.

I'd also suggest that DE implemented an universal forma, but something tells me those wouldn't be better than just using regular formas and accumulating polarities across slots and build tabs. I am fully certain such a forma would be a PITA to farm, specially in the first few years after it's released.

But even in niche builds like you describe is this really an issue? I've made some pretty crazy builds and I've never encountered this issue. If it comes up for the 1:10000 builds is it really something that should be changed in the core game? I mean... we're talking about making a change to allow the most niche of niche builds to work without issue, right? I think that's kind of silly.

[Yamazuki]

32 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

But even in niche builds like you describe is this really an issue? I've made some pretty crazy builds and I've never encountered this issue. If it comes up for the 1:10000 builds is it really something that should be changed in the core game? I mean... we're talking about making a change to allow the most niche of niche builds to work without issue, right? I think that's kind of silly.

I have the issue on a few Warframes. Athough, why I think slots need the ability to fit multiple polarities isn't for one specific build, it's for cases where I use one Warframe for very different builds. I would need duplicate Warframes to get around the issue, or just stick to one build. Varied build per Warframe is also even more of a problem if Helminth is used for different purposes on a given Warframe.

It's also not as if fitting multiple polarities per slot is a loss to DE, it still involves burning through more forma. They didn't add aura forma to be generous and let us switch auras when ever for example, it was just an additional forma sink as they cost more plat to buy, or multiple forma to even craft. Adding forma sinks is something DE likes doing.

As to whether something is impacts a specific set of people or not, that hardly matters when DE goes out of their way to please other small groups, even at the expense of most people.

[Xzorn]

Umbra Forma was just something DE decided to capitalize on because they saw players working to squeeze them into builds.

Polarity cost has been a pointless limitation to builds since not long after Forma were added to the game.
You have 8 main mod slots. That's your limitation. Everything else is just fluff or bait to keep you busy. Including Umbra Forma.

DE actually ran into a problem with Primary weapons and extreme polarity costs where no matter how you forma you couldn't fit 8 mods into a single build. They later fixed this by making those weapons hybrid Crit but the condition is still present and will pop up again at some point I'm sure.

[---Swaggi---]

Personally i dont see a problem with the polarity.

First: I barely actually need an umbral polarity. I rather forma the other slots. 

Also on the other side i always use at least one umbral Mod. Most of the time the intensify one. But thats only the case on Frames where HP are not worth modding for like invis frames (e.g. Ash, ivara) or becuase of insane immortality/defense ability e.g. Revenant

From all my WF builds i had never a problem with that :)