so why should I use a secondary weapon?

[_Anise_]

I will just say I never used one, I never put as much effort into maxing one out because honestly they all feel meh, they are from the ones i tested, either low range, don't do enough damage or have ammo issues and just lack the punch primary weapons seem to have, so I never used them much outside balistika prime for its ghost summoning quirk.

so the new (and much needed) QOL allowing players without a secondary to carry a primary weapon and a mission objective at the same time or fire a primary while downed I am even less seeing the point of secondary weapons.

so convince me why I need a secondary weapon ? and suggest one that would be actually fun and comparable to a primary!

[(PSN)DiligentDiamond]

I liked the bolto with the syndicate augment that gives syndicate dmg types and energy regen and flat amount.

Been mainly using the new infested kitgun sporelancer and the new pax and arcanes for them. Residual Shock and Theorem Demulcent Theorem Contagion. 

And ever since last nightwave and the introduction of [Dizzying Rounds] augment for the Bronco/Bronco Prime to open for finishers after every shot I've been mainly using that.

 

[IThIBerserker]

.

[ShadowStarx1]

i havnt  noticed any accuracy issues like that, but if its that screwey you might want to send in a ticket.

[(PSN)Claudija]

On 2021-04-03 at 5:12 AM, ShadowStarx1 said:

a pistol or pair of pistols are a good secondary weapon. There are a couple you can buy the gun itself with credits from the market.

 

some of the bosses (assassination missions) drop the prints - and  parts- for pistols.

 

Akbolto would like a word :P. I mean honestly hitting with them is an Olympic event being that usually involves aiming to the side of the target as the reticule is hopeless. I know dual pistols state they lose accuracy but these it's noticeably bad with. Single pistols I find better like Magnus, Pyrana Prime, Pandero (recently upgraded her to Prime variant) and Euphona Prime as they feel like Magnum Desert Eagles- devastating close range and decent at long. I also have a fondness for the Ballistica Prime and Rakta Ballistica too especially when I'm playing Ivara :P

[Lutesque]

On 2021-04-03 at 12:28 AM, (PSN)solasticgamer said:

I barely use secondary weapons but for now i'm using Prisma Angstrum with multishot nd max firerate. 

Me too.... 😁 !!! I got like almost 400% Multishot on mine... I forgot what the Negative was....  Charge shot Damage is Hilarious.... It's like over 9000 !!! 

On 2021-04-03 at 1:54 AM, RazerXPrime said:

There's lots of fun and useful secondary weapons. You don't "need" anything in this game. Use what is enjoyable. Don't be a meta slave. Don't be one of those that only uses weapons X and Y because the meta says they're the best and skip everything else. 

If only because We're tired of seeing Kuva Nukor's everywhere 😱 !!!

 

[cha0sWyrM]

On 2021-03-11 at 6:50 AM, _Anise_ said:

Kuva Nukor I have been hesitant in getting because statistically is the most used secondary in the game usually meaning it's getting hit with the nerfbat some time... soon?

 

 

people have been saying this since the thing was released. de knows all about it already and has left it alone for over a year. i wouldnt worry about it.

its arguably the best weapon in the entire game. (note...i didnt say most powerful...i said "best"...as in overall damage output, utility, and ease of acquisition)

[ShadowStarx1]

a pistol or pair of pistols are a good secondary weapon. There are a couple you can buy the gun itself with credits from the market.

 

some of the bosses (assassination missions) drop the prints - and  parts- for pistols.

 

[RazerXPrime]

There's lots of fun and useful secondary weapons. You don't "need" anything in this game. Use what is enjoyable. Don't be a meta slave. Don't be one of those that only uses weapons X and Y because the meta says they're the best and skip everything else. 

[(PSN)solasticgamer]

I barely use secondary weapons but for now i'm using Prisma Angstrum with multishot nd max firerate. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

7 minutes ago, chaotea said:

MR is always a factor. An MR 10 gun will generally be better than an MR 1 gun. So comparing any weapon vs any other weapon isnt always correct. Should compare guns within the same MR bracket.

Yes but seeing as OP can use ANY gun, that isn't a factor because we're not comparing what early guns he can use in primary and secondary, we're looking at every gun available.

[Tsoe]

On 2021-03-11 at 5:06 PM, exturkconner said:

It's kind of a wasted mechanic at this point. Quick melee and the changes to how glaives work makes this pretty much have no actual value. It's just a different visual.

lets talk again after the incoming melee rework(nerf)

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2021-03-11 at 12:31 PM, _Anise_ said:

so convince me why I need a secondary weapon ? and suggest one that would be actually fun and comparable to a primary!

if you're not into "melee only" but do use ranged too (even if only occasional), then you should now that many secondaries are way more powerfull than primaries (not all, but many). and if you take kitguns into this, it's even more ridiculous that the same chambers (and loader too) in secondaries are much stronger than as an primary gun... ofc, one reason are the multishoot, the primed crit. chance and damage mods but that still isn't a real excuse for that...

anyway, i rather would see DE abandoning the whole primary, secondary, melee and heavy-gun drawer-thinking and just let use take 4 weapons of choice into the fight, regardless of them being all melee or even all heavies (which ofc is also a sad afair since those heavy guns are also far weaker than every other weapon category).

[TARINunit9]

On 2021-03-11 at 3:46 AM, _Anise_ said:

2/as already stated in my initial post, now you CAN use primary when carrying objective and downed if you do not have a secondary weapon equipped!

Sounds like a bug. I can't find anything in the patch notes except an attempt to PREVENT this, not allow it

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

1) Sortie requirement.

2) Secondary and melee are your only weapons available when carrying things.

3) Wider loadout versatility in mission.

4) You can give to NPC. If the weapon is good and modded properly, the NPC can be devastating.

5) Tenno specter requires a secondary to craft.

6) Excalibru Umbra, Wukong, and Mirage.

[(PSN)Claudija]

10 hours ago, chaotea said:

Goddam Typo!!!!!

So good i typed it twice ;)

xD niice it never hurts being good hehehe

[XAN3MK]

3 hours ago, chaotea said:

First, the only thing you've been saying is 'MR is irrelevent'. Yet you've not proposed any positive replacement for weapon comparisons. You're not adding to the conversation.

Also, you're consistantly taking the whole MR thing to the extreme. Its a general, touch all comparison we can use that doesnt involve hours of making a spreadsheet to work out the DPS or whatever. There are outliers. The Lato Prime is an MR14 gun. But so is Euphona Prime.

But lets to this with examples. To compare using MR as an example. I pick out a random MR. 10 seems good. Then I pick 3 weapons. Lets say the first 3 on each list, to ensure theres no bias. Note i picked MR and decided on the first 3 before looking at the wiki. So we have Amprex, Arca Plasmor & Astilla, in the primaries and Akbronco, Astilla & Arca Scisco.

Well, you did the "addition" for me. With how wonky and inconsistent the spread of weapons across the MRs is, statistics and performance is the only relevant factor in comparing two weapons. For what's it worth, DE can do away with the MR requirements on the weapons and nothing of value will be lost - they don't add anything beside arbitrary restrictions to begin with. In a game with some many weapons, the majority of which are not good, the only way to make a sensible judgement is to look at the stats - you don't necessarily need to do spreadsheets, but opening up a builder and creating a relevant mod loadout to see how the numbers stack between multiple weapons go a long way.

The two outliers you picked up are a good example of why this is the case - both Lato Prime and Euphona Prime are MR14, neither of them is a good weapon.

As for the example, yeah, it is an unintentionally rigged comparison, the Amprex holds up very well vs anything the Star Chart, Sorties or Arbitrations can throw at you, while Arca Plasmor and Astilla are quite decent. (DE did the Plasmor dirty!) On the other hand, I would not wish the Akbronco or the Arca Scisco on anyone. They are not good for the investment one would need to put in them to make them even borderline viable.

I don't know what else to add, statistic and the context in which the weapon is used is about the only relevant metric to go by (so we won't compare sniper rifles vs room clearing weapons in situations where the odds are stacked against one of the sides). I can see where you are coming from with you argument, I really do, but in a game where investing in a weapon costs time and money (due to the mandatory investment of 'tato and ~5 forma to bring any weapon to a reasonable level), I can not in good conscience agree or recommend that anyone considers MR when comparing weapons - not as the solo factor, but as any factor pertaining to a comparison of any merit.

 

[(NSW)Symberzite]

If you're a newer player, you probably haven't unlocked some of the more 'exotic' secondaries. 

That being said, you can run without a secondary if your primary is an assault rifle with a medium-low reload time. The best use for secondaries is to either have AOE (the new mushroom kitgun) or compensate for unwieldy primaries (Lenz, Bramma). The notorious Kuva Nukor has the ability to chain between large groups of enemies, which makes it perfect for clearing the room of 'trash mobs'. The Catabolyst has high damage and can decimate enemies packed in groups with its secondary fire.

One common strategy is to have the secondary weapons be 'primers'. Essentially, use them to apply status effects on armored targets and bosses. That isn't that big of a deal in the early game, but when the enemies become quite tanky it becomes necessary to give them a bunch of debuffs so they would 'soften up' for subsequent attacks. 

[chaotea]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)Claudija said:

uhm Astilla is Gara's signature shotgun, it is not a Secondary....

Goddam Typo!!!!!

So good i typed it twice ;)

[(PSN)Claudija]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

Not what i said. I said it would be pointless comparing ANY primary with ANY secondary.

The mods outscale the % of growth, but primararys, thanks to a higher base stat value, still out perform most secondarys on average. Obviously outliers like the Kuva Bramma and Kuva Nukor (tbh, Kuva / Vandel, ect should be discluded from the conversation as they throw the numbers off) are exeptions.

First, the only thing you've been saying is 'MR is irrelevent'. Yet you've not proposed any positive replacement for weapon comparisons. You're not adding to the conversation.

Also, you're consistantly taking the whole MR thing to the extreme. Its a general, touch all comparison we can use that doesnt involve hours of making a spreadsheet to work out the DPS or whatever. There are outliers. The Lato Prime is an MR14 gun. But so is Euphona Prime.

But lets to this with examples. To compare using MR as an example. I pick out a random MR. 10 seems good. Then I pick 3 weapons. Lets say the first 3 on each list, to ensure theres no bias. Note i picked MR and decided on the first 3 before looking at the wiki. So we have Amprex, Arca Plasmor & Astilla, in the primaries and Akbronco, Astilla & Arca Scisco.

Now its interesting that these primaries are certainly some of the better ones. Maybe no all end-game, but definatly favorable weapons, especially for the area of the game you should be at by MR10. Secondarys seem more a mixed bag, but the Astilla certainly is powerful. I'd say these 3 in both catagries, as an everage portray a similar level of power with the consideration that secondaries are supporting weapons.

 

 

Again, and i cant believe i said this so many times, It doesnt make anything moot. (unless you did mean it turns the games sound off in which case thats a bug!)

We arnt using the MR as a restriction. We arnt judging guns soley on the MR. We arnt saying 'use X or Y because its got Z MR'. We are saying:  When comparing 2 weapons, especially two weapons in different catagories, (In a game with so many weapon types and variations) It is BETTER (Not nessisary. Not the only way.) to compare two weapons with similar MRs rather that two random weapons.

 

 

uhm Astilla is Gara's signature shotgun, it is not a Secondary....

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, XAN3MK said:

I agree with the first point, it is pointless to compare the primaries and secondaries,

Not what i said. I said it would be pointless comparing ANY primary with ANY secondary.

2 hours ago, XAN3MK said:

the latter vastly outscale the former (with few exceptions) if one has access to the adequate mods.

The mods outscale the % of growth, but primararys, thanks to a higher base stat value, still out perform most secondarys on average. Obviously outliers like the Kuva Bramma and Kuva Nukor (tbh, Kuva / Vandel, ect should be discluded from the conversation as they throw the numbers off) are exeptions.

2 hours ago, XAN3MK said:

On the subject of MR I absolutely disagree, because it is irrelevant. The equipment within each MR bracket is neither made equal nor comparable, just look at some of the pieces available across each bracket. Vasto Prime being MR10, Akmagnus and Pyrana being MR12 or Aklex Prime being MR15 are a good example of this - weapons that have a high MR requirement while offering mediocre to poor performance. (Not to mention the prohibitive acquisition of some of them.)

First, the only thing you've been saying is 'MR is irrelevent'. Yet you've not proposed any positive replacement for weapon comparisons. You're not adding to the conversation.

Also, you're consistantly taking the whole MR thing to the extreme. Its a general, touch all comparison we can use that doesnt involve hours of making a spreadsheet to work out the DPS or whatever. There are outliers. The Lato Prime is an MR14 gun. But so is Euphona Prime.

But lets to this with examples. To compare using MR as an example. I pick out a random MR. 10 seems good. Then I pick 3 weapons. Lets say the first 3 on each list, to ensure theres no bias. Note i picked MR and decided on the first 3 before looking at the wiki. So we have Amprex, Arca Plasmor & Astilla, in the primaries and Akbronco, Astilla & Arca Scisco.

Now its interesting that these primaries are certainly some of the better ones. Maybe no all end-game, but definatly favorable weapons, especially for the area of the game you should be at by MR10. Secondarys seem more a mixed bag, but the Astilla certainly is powerful. I'd say these 3 in both catagries, as an everage portray a similar level of power with the consideration that secondaries are supporting weapons.

 

3 hours ago, XAN3MK said:

That you unlock everything by MR15 also makes the point mute. There is enough disposable MR fodder in the game, which makes removing the MR restrictions trivial.

 

Again, and i cant believe i said this so many times, It doesnt make anything moot. (unless you did mean it turns the games sound off in which case thats a bug!)

We arnt using the MR as a restriction. We arnt judging guns soley on the MR. We arnt saying 'use X or Y because its got Z MR'. We are saying:  When comparing 2 weapons, especially two weapons in different catagories, (In a game with so many weapon types and variations) It is BETTER (Not nessisary. Not the only way.) to compare two weapons with similar MRs rather that two random weapons.

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

Secondaries are pretty much like primaries, a mixed bag where most options are pretty much just bad. If you find the right secondary for you, you will often end up never using a primary again due to the superiority in mod options for secondaries (aside from hunter munitions).

[mkah_mvet]

6 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

this thread was more or less me asking for reasons for secondary, I thought there might be a definitive reason that you MUST have one but seems optional from what I gather.

I'm in the same boat as you.  Since the very early game I couldn't figure out why all secondaries suck.  At least until brakk came out.  Then when kuva brakk came out it was a straight upgrade.  I did play around with synoid gammacor when it was at its peak power and that was actually crazy awesome at the time until it got nerfed.

Why a secondary:

1) CO priming, though I don't really use it like that, I rely on powers at that point.  Classic example is kuva nukor.
2) sometimes a secondary is good at killing targets that might be tough to kill with your primary, though I haven't looked into the reasons why that happens.  For example, dropships often seem to die faster to my kuva brakk than a lot of primaries I'd be using in those situations.  If a target is dying too slow I'll switch over and see if that helps, often it does.  Probably has to do with elemental damage.
3) cover situational weaknesses.  A different range and fire rate from your primary can be a useful counterbalance.  I like that about the kuva brakk, it has a short-medium range, it has a moderate fire rate and it has a moderate spread.  It can fill the gaps of any primary I use.  And the good damage to make it viable.  I've used long range secondaries to balance out shorter ranged primaries but that situation just doesn't come up often so I mostly just skip that strategy.

So, MUST you have a secondary?  No.  The game only requires you to fit 1 weapon and it doesn't enforce that being a secondary.  Are there things that secondaries do better than any other weapon?  Yes, those situations do come up.  How frequently they come up depends on your playstyle, but I promise they are coming up and you might just not be noticing.

[(XBOX)OdinsDottir]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Hi, we're both on this boat, fun huh? Hopefully it isn't the Titanic, I'm not floating in the cold water for anyone, lifeboats come out, I'm there ahead of the others.

 

1. My Primary has NEVER run out of ammo.

2. My Melee does far more damage than my secondary, even unranked if I throw another forma on it.

3. I only have 2 Secondary weapons unlocked and in inventory.

 

I toss a new weapon on when it maxes out, then keep melting faces with Ignis Wraith. It's pointless to have one, even when you go down in the field. I'd have better luck throwing rocks at enemies while waiting a revive. At least maybe a nice little dagger or something to 'angry spouse/lover' stab the enemies when they get close enough to try killing you.

Button mashing is pretty easy, 136 stab wounds isn't too much when you're in fear for your life, or worried your fashion frame might get dirt or hydraulic oil on it. That's just the girl in me though.

**Gives a NOT crazy smile**

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

this thread was more or less me asking for reasons for secondary, I thought there might be a definitive reason that you MUST have one but seems optional from what I gather.

though my primary of choice is short range beam soo I guess Id be open to suggestions for long range secondaries ?

I did start building Zymos because it seems interesting and I already had all the stuff laying around to build it

Honestly man whenever I see someone asking for advice I check their MR and their weapon preferences to give myself context. I took a glance and for me it's more about what secondaries you have, or rather don't have. Secondaries in general aren't long range, that's just how it is. But you're missing weapons like Kuva nukor, Pyrana prime, Catchmoon, Tombfinger, Staticor, Euphona prime and Brakk. Probably Mara detron as well. Generally players will use a short ranged secondary that hits like a truck and leave the range to primary though I see you use Fulmin so that might be an issue. My personal preference is a sniper rifle and short ranged hard hitting secondary but that's just me. In general though, the mods we have for secondaries trumps primaries, namely that we have Primed mods for crit damage so that's something to consider. For a secondary that will hit decently but not amazing but with some range, try Akstiletto Prime, Rattleguts or have some silly fun with the Kulstar.

[Chewarette]

I'm on the other range of the spectrum, I've always found Secondaries more fun and efficient than Primaries.