DE: Bug Neglect(?)

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Maybe it isn’t that big of a deal but too often I encounter some small little quirk or bug that annoys me so I go to google for answers. A good half the time the bug has been reported in the forums in posts spanning from 2015-2020. Why does DE not fix bugs that have been in the game for years on end? I noticed this finally as a major inconvenience considering some bugs. 

I have had Ash a week. I Love him to death and in fact I main him now! Butttt, yeah, when you use his 3 and 4 together, 80% of the time your camera gets stuck and you have no choice to leave the mission. Seriously, it makes all gameplay impossible and forces you to abort. 
 

So after it happened for a 5th times in the last day I looked to google because I had already reported this bug in the proper section and was wondering if anyone had found some fixes. There are posts ranging from early 2019 to January 2021. 3 years with this bug that makes the game “unplayable” to an extent. In a 2021 post about the bug someone responded “This had been reported multiple times, I usually switch to operator mode for a temporary fix but you have to abort”.

This is a “fix” kind of and I found that reinitiating the 3rd+4th ability combo fixes the camera. But do you know how hard that is when your camera is stuck considering that to use this ability you need to aim..? Really DE? Multiple reports over a 3 year span and no fix?

I’ve seen other bugs and quirks that have been around for years, not all so gamechanging or annoying as the Ash one but I have simply noticed that the bugs are never fixed. 
 

thanks for coming to my rant, Imma bang my head on the table for awhile to cope with the fact that i’ll probably play my precious Ash less now that this but plagues his gameplay. : (

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 1 hora, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 dijo:

Why does DE not fix bugs that have been in the game for years on end?

Still waiting for PoE contracts to be playable : /

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

There's a few issues that usually have to be overcome when it comes to bug fixing.

The first is that the bug is, ideally, reproducible. If there's an exact set of circumstances that will trigger the bug 100% of the time, that makes it much easier to find the offending piece/s of code.

Then the second is that the aforementioned offending code can actually be found. It's more than likely there's some unintended interaction between different code blocks, rather than a simple one-line issue. This can make it quite difficult to narrow down.

And lastly, that there is an actual solution. Sometimes you might be able to fix one issue, but create two more. In which case, it might be safer to just leave it in until the whole thing can be rewritten from scratch.

They may also have to consider the potential time required to fix a bug, and the number of people affected by the bug. Sometimes a bug will simply sit at the bottom of the priority list and never make its way up the list.

[trst]

My guess is that it's because the bugs themselves are the buggiest things. With a lot of bugs there are players that manage to never experience them at all while others encounter them constantly which makes the process of fixing them harder. It could be some hyper specific interaction that needs to be found, some interaction with things like the system hardware, some external factor like network issues, or all of the above.

An example I came across recently was of a Railjack objective softlock that some people were reporting as happening every/every other mission while others never saw it once. Even a dev chimed in that despite the reports they were unable to replicate the bug even once and asking players to provide videos of the entire mission with the bug happening.

So it could be neglect in the issue falling under the radar or keeps getting pushed back by other priorities. But just as well the issue could be more complex that it seems and reports could be insufficient in replicating it or the underlying triggers for a bug are very specific. The only course of action we have is to just continue to report the bugs even if it already has been reported (or bump and add more information to the existing reports). And if it can be consistently replicated it definitely needs to be reported and until it's fixed try to avoid that circumstance.

[Aadi880]

Because DE can't fix it, but not because they don't know their jobs, no. But because they often can't understand EXACTLY WHY its happening.

This is an important distinction in software development. Developers have to read through hundreds, if not, THOUSANDS of lines of codes. All that, while trying to make new content and meeting deadlines, along with 100s of OTHER developers managing THEIR OWN deadline.

To fix a bug, you need to know why its happening. This means you need to be able to reproduce it, and reliably so. You can't just say "This bug occurs 50% of the time I do this, surely that must be the reason?". Because no, it is not. It has to be a 100% chance of occurring.

Think about it in this way: If you try to fix a bug that you only know occurs 60% of the time when performing a specific action, you RISK ruining 40% of OTHER, NON-BUGGED code when you try to fix what you THINK is the bugged action. Not only that, but the problem often tends to be how different BLOCK of codes interact with each other creating an unintended side-effect, which means you have to search through multiple files. If anything ELSE is tied to the same code, it will take even longer to fix as you don't want to ruin anything else either.

Not may players play Ash. And so, only half of them will encounter a bug. And even less amount of said half players will actually go their way and report it. And even less of said reports actually go through the devs because CMs and Admins has to sort out what to report and what not to from, potentially, thousands of reports from different segments each day.

All that, whilst maintaining under crunch. and crunch is HELL.

That said, the only thing you can do is find out how to make it happen 100% of the time. And report that, perhaps multiple times throughout multiple times. The rest is up to them.

Besides, DE "refusing" to fix bugs is just a non-sensical sentence if you think about it. They don't hate us dude..._{do you?}

[Corvid]

22 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

 

All that, whilst maintaining under crunch. and crunch is HELL.

Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge DE doesn't do crunch. Sheldon said as much in an interview a while back, recognising that a game like this is a marathon, not a sprint, and that if they crunch their dev team to make it, in short order they won't have a dev team anymore.

[Galuf]

Il y a 14 heures, VoidArkhangel a dit :

Still waiting for PoE contracts to be playable : /

mph. It differs from player to player but they work for me, hh day 3 thanks to them :D. If it is a connexion issue switch gateway, else it is probably related to your computer, PoE is ultra demanding.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 1 hora, Galuf dijo:

mph. It differs from player to player but they work for me, hh day 3 thanks to them :D. If it is a connexion issue switch gateway, else it is probably related to your computer, PoE is ultra demanding.

Decent connection and no lag since I play on solo with almost nothing on the background and have a pc capable of lift almost anything on high (can play Fortuna on high at 100fps min) the problem is the game as almost always since a good part of the missions that I play end up with the secure the zone on the mountains and the game doesn't spawn enough enemies.

[Galuf]

il y a 44 minutes, VoidArkhangel a dit :

Decent connection and no lag since I play on solo with almost nothing on the background and have a pc capable of lift almost anything on high (can play Fortuna on high at 100fps min) the problem is the game as almost always since a good part of the missions that I play end up with the secure the zone on the mountains and the game doesn't spawn enough enemies.

??? Yes but it can comes from other things than your gpu(big gpus cruise on current game market), is your game is installed on SSD gen2? even gen1 suffer here or there, not having the game on a gen2 is enough to have it lag. However I did not understod fully your answer.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Bug fixing doesn't make DE money. Making content does.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 2 horas, Galuf dijo:

However I did not understod fully your answer.

Then you didn't played the contracts recently.

My pc isn't the problem, the game code is. Sure, you can say that my since my RAM is under 128gb and because I don't own a 3080 the game will run worse but I'm playing on solo, the game should freeze or crash if it was my pc, and if it was my connection the game would send the "There was an error updating your account. Ending session" message and should send me back to the login screen, it shouldn't stop spawning enemies while everything else is fine don't you think?

Even Steve said it was a mess and after what I saw on the test cluster I can confirm that anything can break everything in any moment and since DE read more tweets than their own forums...

[Galuf]

il y a 45 minutes, VoidArkhangel a dit :

Then you didn't played the contracts recently.

My pc isn't the problem, the game code is. Sure, you can say that my since my RAM is under 128gb and because I don't own a 3080 the game will run worse but I'm playing on solo, the game should freeze or crash if it was my pc, and if it was my connection the game would send the "There was an error updating your account. Ending session" message and should send me back to the login screen, it shouldn't stop spawning enemies while everything else is fine don't you think?

Even Steve said it was a mess and after what I saw on the test cluster I can confirm that anything can break everything in any moment and since DE read more tweets than their own forums...

AHAHAH. I though you were speaking about path of exile, and you were speaking about plains of eidolons. What a dumdum I am :). DE has issue getting into older content issues. They have some generic spawning code that may interfer in there, it sucks.

[(PSN)Rebel-sonie]

Here’s a bug with this week’s Nightwave. 
Go to POE/OV/Deimos pick up Steel Path bounty. Run to elevator, wait for it to open, step out then step back into elevator towards the hub. 
Congrats you just finished a steel path mission. 
This is on console so I imagine this should’ve been beta tested on PC first but I guess not. 

[Kemi337]

Operator form usually works, you've gotten it to totally bug out and not be able to recover?

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

29 minutes ago, Kemi337 said:

Operator form usually works, you've gotten it to totally bug out and not be able to recover?

Yep dude, operator form fixes it kind of but most the time it goes right back after returning to my Frame

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

I've found that if you really want a particular bug to be fixed, you have to make a topic about it in the forum's Bug section and make a big but POLITE fuss about it; some forum users end up ranting or causing an unpleasant nuisance with obnoxious intent which, obviously, no Developer really wants or has to read.

Ask your clan and friends to post to the topic, make a campaign about it. DE will notice if it's a hot topic and won't go away, then do something about it. Make the right kind of fuss and you might even get quoted in the patch notes!

Also, don't de-rail the topic or fill it with 'salt,' this will just make the topic unpleasant to read and thus end up ignored. If someone else makes a dubious post to troll or derail the bug discussion intentionally, report it for a mod to remove.

But yes, try and get a fellowship to back up your bug report - one keyboard warrior won't usually make a difference, but an army of them doing it correctly... sure?

Best of luck.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2021-03-15 at 5:06 PM, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Maybe it isn’t that big of a deal but too often I encounter some small little quirk or bug that annoys me so I go to google for answers. A good half the time the bug has been reported in the forums in posts spanning from 2015-2020. Why does DE not fix bugs that have been in the game for years on end? I noticed this finally as a major inconvenience considering some bugs. 

 

 

DE's marketing model for Warframe is to focus heavily on each new Expansion/Update, which brings in a bunch of fresh players and microtransactions, with interests and profits tapering off after a month. The developers then have to put efforts into building and hyping up the next big expansion to bring in a fresh wave. Repeat.

because of the constant expansions, bugs tend to pile up faster than they can go back and fix them all. And even if they did have the spare developer Time to do it, there is little incentive to do so as old content is less relevant to profit than shiny new things.

It's mainly the longest running players who notice all the little bugs, but the casual short term players tend to be the loosest with their wallets. An old player may have hoarded up thousands worth of Plat from trading pvp, but not much of it will be their own RMTs.

 

[shoot_gun_man]

still baffled that this game's minimum sensitivity still has me spinning at 200 rpm after at least 3 years

[(XBOX)IIIIRED1IIII]

 Off topic here but I just thought I’d say it was nice seeing you in region chat Apollo.😁

[Joezone619]

be sure to add test cluster neglect too.

[Berzerkules]

There are so many bugs that get ignored or forgotten.

Like people spawning in your railjack when you invite them for a trade and you can't initiate a trade until they leave RJ. That started as soon as RJ was released(almost a year and a half ago...). I've started saying "fast travel to vault if you spawn in RJ" before almost every trade. Only problem is the chat tab gets switched to dojo from personal chat tab as they enter dojo and they miss my message most of the time. I guess that's like 2 bugs there. Anyways, I've literally wasted hours of my life waiting for people to spawn into dojo to trade only for them to be waiting in my RJ. 

Now we have an upcoming RJ update. Honestly, the only thing I want from that RJ update is that bug to just get magically fixed. If not, I'll just destroy my dry dock since I will be able to access RJ from a relay. 

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

On 2021-03-17 at 10:16 PM, (XBOX)IIIIRED1IIII said:

 Off topic here but I just thought I’d say it was nice seeing you in region chat Apollo.😁

Thx Red lmao

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2021-03-16 at 8:06 AM, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Maybe it isn’t that big of a deal but too often I encounter some small little quirk or bug that annoys me so I go to google for answers. A good half the time the bug has been reported in the forums in posts spanning from 2015-2020. Why does DE not fix bugs that have been in the game for years on end? I noticed this finally as a major inconvenience considering some bugs. 

I have had Ash a week. I Love him to death and in fact I main him now! Butttt, yeah, when you use his 3 and 4 together, 80% of the time your camera gets stuck and you have no choice to leave the mission. Seriously, it makes all gameplay impossible and forces you to abort. 
 

So after it happened for a 5th times in the last day I looked to google because I had already reported this bug in the proper section and was wondering if anyone had found some fixes. There are posts ranging from early 2019 to January 2021. 3 years with this bug that makes the game “unplayable” to an extent. In a 2021 post about the bug someone responded “This had been reported multiple times, I usually switch to operator mode for a temporary fix but you have to abort”.

This is a “fix” kind of and I found that reinitiating the 3rd+4th ability combo fixes the camera. But do you know how hard that is when your camera is stuck considering that to use this ability you need to aim..? Really DE? Multiple reports over a 3 year span and no fix?

I’ve seen other bugs and quirks that have been around for years, not all so gamechanging or annoying as the Ash one but I have simply noticed that the bugs are never fixed. 
 

thanks for coming to my rant, Imma bang my head on the table for awhile to cope with the fact that i’ll probably play my precious Ash less now that this but plagues his gameplay. : (

Zaw Nikana’s have been bugged and haven’t sat inside their sheathe for over two years :D

They frequently block part of the hacking screen :D

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2021-03-18 at 9:37 AM, shoot_gun_man said:

still baffled that this game's minimum sensitivity still has me spinning at 200 rpm after at least 3 years

Your mouse also has options, but yeah, totally with you on this.

[nerfinator6]

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