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Lavos needs to be looked at


(XBOX)AAR24814
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Lavos has so much potential to be a complete warframe but couple of things really put him off. Vial rush is completely off I believe. Any obstacle he encounters and it's just useless then. 

Suggestion: Instead of him skating around, let the vials drop around in a 360 degree angle as per the range. That will be a better approach than the warframe running (skating) in a straight line.

Secondly, his transmutation probe needs to be like catalyze where the range covers above and below areas as well. Any obstacle it encounters and it just stops there! Plus the cooldown is ridiculous on it! There's no way he survives in steel path unless you build him correctly. I have put 9 forma including 2 umbral to make him playable in steel path. But the probe simply doesn't work properly when the areas are congested especially if you consider new corpus tile sets. 

Subsume - It's difficult to apply any subsumed ability on him as his 1 actually heals him. I considered removing probe but the problem is I won't get my corrosive combination. Probably, will not be able to apply any subsumed ability to him. Anyone here can suggest their approach towards Lavos and what subsume abilities they have applied. 

 

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I agree that Lavos definitely has potential, but needs post-release tweaks to improve the reliability of the kit.

But he survives in Steel Path just fine for me, and I haven't loaded him up with a ton of Forma. Snek-bite sustain and Adaptation is plenty enough for non-endurance SP.

 

 

No subsumes either. Bit of a flaw in design that you cut out an irreparable amount of kit versatility no matter which you ditch.

 

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)AAR24814 said:

Secondly, his transmutation probe needs to be like catalyze where the range covers above and below areas as well. Any obstacle it encounters and it just stops there!

I think it have to bounce off walls, like old game we used to play named the Pinball.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)AAR24814 said:

Subsume - It's difficult to apply any subsumed ability on him as his 1 actually heals him. I considered removing probe but the problem is I won't get my corrosive combination. Probably, will not be able to apply any subsumed ability to him. Anyone here can suggest their approach towards Lavos and what subsume abilities they have applied. 

I changed his 4th as it's the most boring, has huge cooldown, 1-3 abilities have some purposes (1 heal, 2nd is nice CC movement and 3rd stun + cooldown reduction) and, as for subduing elements, Heat is ok but other are meh (Gas) or just completly useless (Blast). One cool effect might be Radiation but you can infuse Nyx' Mind controll.

 

28 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

Drifting is coming.

I've been there before...

Joking aside if Drifting, or Vial rush, still stops your running then this change would be still big MEH.

23 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Just get rid of the cooldowns already, and give him a traditional energy pool instead. His kit with all of its handicaps and forced ability downtime doesn't fit the fast paced combat of this game in the slightest.

I enjoy slow-paced games with him. And, while cooldowns might not be nice in his kit but it's nice for another frame to be able to use an ability without energy.

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6 hours ago, quxier said:

I changed his 4th as it's the most boring, has huge cooldown, 1-3 abilities have some purposes (1 heal, 2nd is nice CC movement and 3rd stun + cooldown reduction) and, as for subduing elements, Heat is ok but other are meh (Gas) or just completly useless (Blast). One cool effect might be Radiation but you can infuse Nyx' Mind control

Honestly, his 4 scales with the number of elements. That was a brave decision on your front. He can clear the room if his 4 is used correctly.

 

6 hours ago, quxier said:

I think it have to bounce off walls, like old game we used to play named the Pinball

Yes. That would really be fun!

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15 minutes ago, (XBOX)AAR24814 said:

Honestly, his 4 scales with the number of elements. That was a brave decision on your front. He can clear the room if his 4 is used correctly.

I don't things that just "kills". I changed Solgate from Wisp for the same reasons.

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Lavos is ok enough to solo SP survival for 20min. He's even nice against infested as you're not affected by parasitic eximus or disruption ancient (cedo and gas on his 4th clear the rooms)

So that's ok enough for me.

The only downside is that he can't use augur mods to spam shieldgating

Edited by MonsterOfMyOwn
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Am 16.3.2021 um 12:22 schrieb Wyrmius_Prime:

Just get rid of the cooldowns already, and give him a traditional energy pool instead. His kit with all of its handicaps and forced ability downtime doesn't fit the fast paced combat of this game in the slightest.

No thanks. Being able to cast abilities with ancient disruptors around is too much fun compared to basically playing weapons and not frames as soon as you set foot into high lvl infested territory, and or certain other enemies spamming magnetic procs.

Lavos is fine as is regarding the cooldown system.

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it's odd how the cooldowns are tied to his 3 but the cooldown on his 3 is too long for that to be practical, his 1-3 could be way more streamlined if they all had a 5 second cooldown instead of having different cooldowns for seemingly no reason 

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He's ok, rough and a bit janky but ok. Personally not a fan of the imbuing of elements as with my control scheme it's just annoyingly cumbersome on a controller. Also dislike that he's basically an anti-Helminth frame. Can't really swap any part of his kit out without sizeable repercussions and VR isn't a great ability on other frames. Shame but I don't see myself ever touching him again without a heavy redesign.

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29 minutes ago, (PSN)VKPButcher said:

He's ok, rough and a bit janky but ok. Personally not a fan of the imbuing of elements as with my control scheme it's just annoyingly cumbersome on a controller. Also dislike that he's basically an anti-Helminth frame. Can't really swap any part of his kit out without sizeable repercussions and VR isn't a great ability on other frames. Shame but I don't see myself ever touching him again without a heavy redesign.

I agree that he's rough and awkward to control, but I have no issue with him being an "anti-Helminth" frame.  Honestly, I feel like the Helminth kind of cheapens some of our frames' identities.  I still use it, but only when a frame has a basically useless ability (Frost 2, Ivara 2).  That might be better as another topic though.

 

It's his control issues that ruin him for me.  Even with tap/hold inverted, he's a pain to play and not really rewarding enough to make it worth it.  And yeah, the weird range on his 1, the removing of sprint toggle and janky controls on his 2, the unreliable movement of his 3, and the lack of visual impact on his 4... it adds up.  He feels unfinished.

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9 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I agree that he's rough and awkward to control, but I have no issue with him being an "anti-Helminth" frame.  Honestly, I feel like the Helminth kind of cheapens some of our frames' identities.  I still use it, but only when a frame has a basically useless ability (Frost 2, Ivara 2).  That might be better as another topic though.

Don't disagree on the identity thing. That being said it is a thing I don't see changing any time soon, if at all. Tbh it feels more like a balance bandaid than anything else so DE doesn't have to fuss as much over frames with just plain bad abilities. Still thought it worth mention, though as you said prob a better discussion to be had on it's own.

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12 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

No thanks. Being able to cast abilities with ancient disruptors around is too much fun compared to basically playing weapons and not frames as soon as you set foot into high lvl infested territory, and or certain other enemies spamming magnetic procs.

Lavos is fine as is regarding the cooldown system.

If the slowest moving melee enemies in the game are able to reach you at melee distance, you might be doing something terribly wrong. Then again I am used to playing warframes with total freedom over using abilities, so what the hell would I know about those kinds of struggles.

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb Wyrmius_Prime:

If the slowest moving melee enemies in the game are able to reach you at melee distance, you might be doing something terribly wrong. Then again I am used to playing warframes with total freedom over using abilities, so what the hell would I know about those kinds of struggles.

Not sure where you got melee distance from but I'm used to people pulling words and conclusions out of thin air on here 🤷 The hook isn't even a close range attack, but ok.

If you don't like lavos just don't use him, it's as simple as that. DE won't remove cooldowns just because you say so. There's 40+ frames ready for you to play consisting of the old energy system.

Enjoy!

---

On topic: I hope DE read the dedicated Lavos thread carefully because there was a decent amount of good feedback in there. So yeah, we'll see when they touch him again. Soon™ 

Edited by (XBOX)TyeGoo
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