Update 29.10.0: New Railjack Equipment Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[LillyRaccune]

4 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Fixed in which direction?

Probably 225 endo will be standard. I actually imagine this was not a bug at all, but just to prevent easy endo farming it was enforced while we were testing Railjack 3.0. Hey if we're both Beta Testers, aren't we supposed to be paid for running the Test Cluster?

4 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

On a Saturday?

My hypothesis is the Gift of the Lotus Alerts will also be reseased on the same day as Update 30. So the weekend would be the logical choice. But this is purely speculation.

[(XBOX)A Wasted Muffin]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Fixed in which direction? They should all cost 25 Endo or all cost 225 Endo?

On a Saturday?

 

I am just guessing but the 16th is the last day for the 50% platnium sale. They normally throw an update after the last platnium sale has stopped.

[(XBOX)A Wasted Muffin]

1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

Probably 225 endo will be standard. I actually imagine this was not a bug at all, but just to prevent easy endo farming it was enforced while we were testing Railjack 3.0. Hey if we're both Beta Testers, aren't we supposed to be paid for running the Test Cluster?

My hypothesis is the Gift of the Lotus Alerts will also be reseased on the same day as Update 30. So the weekend would be the logical choice. But this is purely speculation.

I am just guessing but the 16th is the last day for the 50% platnium sale. They normally throw an update after the last platnium sale has stopped

[IzzyTH-I51]

Right, so I've read only the first couple pages, a lot of comments about flux in those sections...

 

It seems the main concern is having a frame that doesn't regularly have enough energy to power a railjack.

I wonder if having a basic minimum power to railjack would be a decent solution...

So say for example you have a frame that can't use all of railjacks powers, the railjack would in such cases have more energy storage than your frame, but on the other end if your frame does have more energy than this minimum amount you get little to no increase in energy.

 

And then let's mention frames that don't really care about energy generation, I believe ideally, the railjack should have very minor energy regen on its own, but we do have energy in the forge.

 

Just imagine it like having a universal basic energy pool, so you make enough energy to do basic abilities, no need to give poorer frames the inability to succeed in a mission.

If only, right?

[JackFraust]

Can the Cryophon's projectiles be reverted to what they were before the update (Arca Plasmor-style)? It now shares the same projectile type at the Glazio, but with various stat differences. Weapons that have a range of 700-1400 need to be able to hit enemies easier, because the enemies will be moving more rapidly the closer they get.

When comparing the Vidar Cryophon with the Vidar Glazio, the Cryophon only tops the Glazio in 2 categories, Damage per shot and Status Chance. While the Glazio tops the Cryophon in Range, Critical Chance, Critical Multiplier, Fire-rate, Heat Accretion and Damage until Overheat. On top of that, the Glazio also has Puncture and Impact Damage along with its Cold Damage, meaning it'll affect a wider variety of enemies compared to the Cryophon with it's sole Cold Damage. Comparing the 2, it's clear the Glazio triumphs the Cryophon.

The Cryophon was essentially the shotgun of the Railjack Armaments, great for taking out groups of enemies at point blank range, but now it's just a short range cannonball with THE weakest Damage until Overheat. Cryophon NEEDS its Arca Plasmor-style projectiles back. The Cryophon may have the highest damage per projectile, but it is far from being the best Armament. At first glance, the Cryophon may look like the best weapon, but in actuality, every other weapon is overall stronger than it. What made it a great weapon was it ability to make it hard to miss your target and with that now gone, it's a trash weapon.

 

*As a side note, why do some Vidar Armament's boost affect Puncture over its strongest damage type (one of them being the Glazio)?

[dork24680]

I would like there to be, most likely in an options menu, a way to stop the railjack from auto levelling. 

What i mean is the railjack automatically orients itself to an unseen or unknown plane while in a purely three dimensional space. 

If there is no up or down on space then why does my railjack spin on its own to acheive some kind of up and down. 

I would like a toggle in the options under controls to turn off this auto rotate. 

Trying to aim while piloting is hard enough, but then the railjack rotates on its own, with no rhyme or reason, makes it even harder. 

[(NSW)Flanela]

The plexus itself is not bad. Changing the intrinsics interface to a more familair mod one was a nice change. While i'm not a big fan of endo farming, i do not see it as a bad thing.

However, we need to address the energy issues involved in the new system. 

The flux was a really well thought mechanic. It was integrated with the engineer intrinsic and the forge functions. Now, that was lost.

Railjack does not generate energy and enemys does not drop energy orbs making seamingly impossible to regenerate this resourse while piloting.

It limits players to use mostly high energy frames with high energy builds, pushing away potential railjack players, the oppostite of the objective of this new update.

Solutions:

1. Bring flux back and integrate it with the engineer crew member;

2. Make railjack regenerate energy of the pilot;

3. Make enemys and props drop energy orbs like in archwing missions;

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

Did y’all nerf the galvarc ordinance? ‘Cuz it literally doesn’t work any more. If I get reeeeeaaaaaaallllly close, it’ll hit one enemy. It’s range has to be like 5 meters or something now. Most of the time it never hits anything, and I’ve literally never seen it chain since the update. Feels like an unnecessarily harsh hit....

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

Also is it just me or it’s the Pilot crew member AI just not that great? I feel like they could be more helpful. I wouldn’t mind a sub menu to give them commands (like engage enemies, focus on crew ships, move towards objective, avoid damage etc...) because right now they just kinda bumble around :/ 

[(XBOX)AlmightyTa1lest]

So, first off... Love this game and love the team behind it. Been playing for 3 and half years almost once a day, and keep coming back. Also, loved Railjack as soon as I tried it. Got a little stale with zero new content for over a year, but still went back to it frequently.  Like a lot of players, I had everything maxed, could solo veil in no time flat. 

I've never posted anything in the forums, until now...

All said and done, I find the update to be a mixed bag. I echo the sentiments about warframe energy issues, void storm FX and only cracking one relic after a real long mission. I'm hoping these things are looked at.

I like the plexus and see a lot of potential.  I would like to see universal polarities on it to address build variety concerns, but forma has never really been an issue in my experience; Will only need a couple for this.  

I didn't have any issue from an endo or credit position with the whole switcheroo; after maxing everything back up, I still have 250k endo and 36 million credits. Newer players will definitely run into some obstacles.

I would like to see the forge caps raised. It is a little annoying to have two dome charges, especially when the crew doesn't do a whole lot. 

Ah, my crew. Personally, they haven't down a whole lot for me in the way of playing solo. I can remote repair eveything and can take all fighters as a pilot. I reeeaaalllly want the crew to be able to forge and operate artillery. Let me set forge priority. Let me set the target for them to use the artillery. I am looking forward to liches being able to do all functions. 

At this point, I want more... actual Railjack gameplay.  DE is way too creative to simply shoehorn a couple of existing modes for the sake of variety.  I want new enemy ship types that require varying strategies. I want new Railjack armament sections, like a bomb bay and a utility turret that can lay mines or something. 

I want to be in my Railjack most of the time. While I enjoy some of the on foot elements from grineer proximas, I would love to see missions where I have to escort a cargo ship, or take on bigger ships other than crewships. Maybe ships fire some kind disruptors onto my hull, so someone has to get in their archwing, go out and clear them off. Stuff like this; I want it to be unique from the the standard mission types that we've all played a million times. 

I hope this rework satisfies the barrier to entry, and can now focus on truly new content. Here's hoping...

Sorry for the long rant. I'm a huge fan of the game, and just want to see it go into a really great direction. 

 

[(PSN)naru91yo]

Il 16/3/2021 alle 23:26, [DE] Danielle ha detto:

 

I appreciate the new changes, I was a bit scared by the switch from flux to energy, but if you use the right foresight it is not a problem indeed, it avoids you going to the forge and then back, I appreciate the change from mod to avionics because I can put many and many mods compared to avionics and have 20 of 20 different levels, removed the useless dirac the endo are recovered very indirectly by scrapping and making railjack nodes, the only flaw I find is not being able to choose the host, even if I understand the choice to help find an open game, I found myself 7 times in a row to lose because the host with his railjack and the poor ability to use it, constantly sent him into catastrophic failure even by forging the hull to the maximum. you have added void storms, more modes beyond the skirmish and it has become more interesting but this new host mechanic makes it frustrating to play and forces those who can easily do missions to submit to chance or preferably to play alone, pushing away what was the intent on playing together! if before it was difficult to find someone (but because there was no reason to play, it was all skirmishes and we went to giant point of course) now instead you are giving us a good reason to play alone and not in groups.

Edited April 16, 2021 by (PSN)naru91yo

[CaJunB34Ts]

The new guns are somewhat conflicting, to say the least. One is perfect for AI gunners, and the other three have potential but require some time to get used to. The new hull is much more powerful than hull weave and bulkhead, and the shift for reactors was beneficial. I like the drop tables for all parts too, now. As for Nautilus, very cute. Good work on the sentinel.

[(PSN)crashteddy03]

I like the Plexus, though I'm still figuring out optimal mod configurations. I am slightly disappointed that this is being used as yet another Forma sink.

My only other feedback so far is that Railjack armaments still feel weaker than I think they should. Even with max rank Hyperstrike, Predator and Section Density, MKIII Zekti or Vidar Apoc/Carcinnox, I can still do more damage to fighters and cannon emplacements with my Mausolon in archwing than I can using the Railjack turrets. Somehow this doesn't seem right to me.

[(PSN)lhp_marcos]

Now that RJ Energy is your warframe energy pool, its makes easier to use the powers, however, seeker volley is very energy hungry, costing 200 per cast, it can be reduced a bit with the Onslaught Matrix. But, i have a suggestion, fighter, crewships and resource crates in railjack mission shoul drop energy orbs.

[Glaive-012]

I found it a bit perplexing when using the revamped Forge system, as I am able to somehow increase the cap amount of certain resources upon every use (e.g. Dome Charges), though this is temporary after entering the Dry Dock, or making a new game session. To clarify, is this intentional, or could this be a bug?

Edited April 17, 2021 by (NSW)Glaive-012

[CyberneticSusurrus]

On 2021-04-10 at 4:06 AM, JackFraust said:

Can the Cryophon's projectiles be reverted to what they were before the update (Arca Plasmor-style)? It now shares the same projectile type at the Glazio, but with various stat differences. Weapons that have a range of 700-1400 need to be able to hit enemies easier, because the enemies will be moving more rapidly the closer they get.

[...]

This please. I want my Cryophon space-shotgun back.

[(PSN)naru91yo]

Il 16/3/2021 alle 23:26, [DE] Danielle ha detto:

 

after several games and a careful analysis (also reading the various feedbacks in the forum), I came to the conclusion that; 
 yes, the warframe's change from flux to energy is wrong!  the maximum energy and energy cost of the avionics limits the choice of the warframe.  not being able to choose your railjack now limits a game more than before, the hull has become the main part of the railjack.

I would propose: 
1 reintroduce the flux with the current mechanics, everyone individually uses their own flux while this slowly recharges over time (always keeping the possibility of forging it).
2 reintroduce the maximum flux available through the hull, in my opinion the statistics coupled with three are fine, I would divide them like this; divide the amount of health, armor and flux between the three houses.
I would divide the reactors between power, range and duration without removing any, but penalizing one or two of the three.
given the removal of the engine cooldown, I would introduce the cooldown time for dodge / or recovery from boost.

and reintroduce the mechanics to be able to choose your own railjack, the plexus alone is not enough, however, for the final resistance of the railjack, to avoid the differences in level between various players and their railjack, however the captain will remain the owner of the railjack (who does not want to  say to be the helmsman), if possible I would leave the possibility of waiting for other players but also the possibility of using your RJ and not others (if this is not possible, go back to the old host mechanics).

[(PSN)naru91yo]

Il 16/3/2021 alle 23:26, [DE] Danielle ha detto:

1 minute ago, (PSN)naru91yo said:

dopo diversi giochi e un'attenta analisi (leggendo anche i vari feedback nel forum), sono giunto alla conclusione che; 
 sì, il cambiamento del warframe da flusso a energia è sbagliato! il massimo costo energetico ed energetico dell'avionica limita la scelta del warframe. non essere in grado di scegliere il tuo railjack ora limita un gioco più di prima, lo scafo è diventato la parte principale del railjack.

Proporrei: 
1 reintrodurre il flusso con la meccanica attuale, ognuno usa individualmente il proprio flusso mentre questo si ricarica lentamente nel tempo (mantenendo sempre la possibilità di forgiarlo).
2 reintrodurre il flusso massimo disponibile attraverso lo scafo, secondo me le statistiche accoppiate a tre vanno bene, le dividerei così; dividere la quantità di salute, armatura e flusso tra le tre case.
Dividerei i reattori tra potenza, portata e durata senza toglierne nessuno, ma penalizzando uno o due dei tre.
data la rimozione del cooldown del motore, introdurrei il tempo di cooldown per schivata / o recupero da boost.

e reintrodurre la meccanica per poter scegliere il proprio railjack, il plesso da solo non basta però per la resistenza finale del railjack, per evitare i dislivelli tra i vari giocatori e il loro railjack, tuttavia il capitano rimarrà proprietario del railjack (che non vuole dire di essere il timoniere), se possibile lascerei la possibilità di aspettare altri giocatori ma anche la possibilità di utilizzare il tuo RJ e non altri (se questo non è possibile torna vecchi meccanici host).

 

I would transfer the fire repair, freeze repair bonuses to the hull and add electrical repair and I would change the zetki reactor bonuses to for flux recovery.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Revisit Turret Velocity Drop chance.  I have 109 Revo Reducers, 90 Granum Nemesis, 106 Void Hole, 98 Worm Torment, 112 Sentient Scalpal 174 Conic Nozzle - all gold "rare" Railjack mods.  and Zero Turret Velocity having killed hundreds of regular outriders with your pathetic 1 in a thousand chance and oh yeah we'll only give you two of that enemy spawn per mission.

 

 

[(PSN)Mario91658]

Let me start this by saying what type of player I am.  I am a high rank player, endo and credits are about the only resources I need anymore, and I usually don't have a formed squad, and I play on PS4.  I started playing Railjack missions after Scarlet Spear and I would frequently play Railjack missions before the update because I found them to be good to farm credits and affinity.  I would do that publicly because my Railjack was armed to the teeth, meaning I could help people do missions fast, and maybe even faster if they knew how either forge, man the forward artillery, or do objectives.

So know let's move onto how these new changes have effected me and how I feel about them, I'll start with the plexus.  I believe there are two areas of discussion about the plexus, it's set-up, in how it differs from the avionics grid, and how it effects gamplay.

Plexus Set-up

The plexus has actually reduced the customization of the Railjack.  Yes, it is still 9 slots for integrated, and even one more for an aura, but in making it more like the rest of Warframe modding you introduced polarity on the mods, which was not present on the avionics grid, as well as the plexus has to be leveled on top of that.  The change to the integrated having polarities is what causes the biggest affect on the customization I think.  Before you just had to get a better reactor to be able to slot more avionics in, now you have you have to go back to the old gameplay loop of farm affinity, forma, farm more affinity, forma again.  I will say that the loop of upgrading mods and slots with dirac was an new grid, but I'll talk more about that when I talk about the Cost of Modding.  Also, before if new avionics were to come out we would have just had to decide which ones we value more over others with no extra work to the grid itself instead of having to re-forma and grind the affinity back again.  Having an orokin reactor already being added is about the only nice thing I can say about the integrated plexus because it also has an aura slot, but that doesn't already come with an aura forma installed as well.  Moving onto the tactical and the battle side of the plexus, I can say that were you it feels liked you reduced the ability to customize the Railjack you at least tried to negate some of that customization reduction by making tactical and battle plexus mods not cost and capacity.  Though you did a double-back on that by making categories for the tactical plexus mods and made it so that we could only slot one of each category, where before we could have slotted whatever combination of tactical avionics we wanted as long as we had the avionics capacity.

I feel the change here is ultimately negative.  The avionics grid before already had the the core concept of the rest of Warframe's modding, at least I thought so, you had a capacity for what avionics you used that you couldn't go over unless you upgraded, the differences being the the capactiy number, the addition of battle and tactical slots, and a different look.  With the addition of polarities and leveling the plexus you fully go back to the the gameplay loop for the rest of Warframe, which is what causes the reduced customization options.  I think if you just changed the look you could have done what you said you were trying to accomplish with this addition, helping new players understand Railjack modding and relate it to the core modding mechanics of the rest of the game, and not reduce the customization options.

Plexus Gameplay

Moving onto how the plexus effects gameplay, I'm a bit conflicted.  On the one hand it's nice to be able to have your customization matter during Railjack missions, but on the other hand it might not mesh, or even negatively impact what the ship was designed for.  The ship could be set-up to have low shields on purpose to either increase speed when there are no shields or even more damage, but if another person is modded to keep shields topped off with Ironclad Matrix, Defensive Fire, Fortifying Fire, and Protective Shots.  The ships intended set-up is going to be thrown out the window and the other person's mod set-up is going to be less effective.  Another case is if the ship is set-up for speed and then another person decides they want to Void Cloak, they're going against what the ship was built for and slowing down the ship.  In that case an easy enough fix would be to make any Battle or Tactical mods that effect ship speed only be usable when that person is piloting.  If you really want a person's mod set-up to matter than you also need to let them use their own equipment because that's how people usually choose mods.  I don't choose the mods I use on my warframe and weapons and then hope I join someone who also decided to pick the same loadout I was planning for.  In the case of making people's mod set-ups matter and letting them use their own equipment you might as well let people who join Railjack missions each use their own Railjack with their own crew.

I feel this is slightly negative.  On one hand yes it's nice to have people's choices matter, but on the other hand when they go against what the ship was built for it just brings both sides effectiveness down.

 

Next I'd like to talk about the Railjack itself.  I'd like to talk about the Railjack's components, the Railjack's layout, and the Railjack's resources.

Railjack Components

The big changes with this update are the new weapons, the addition of hulls as a component, and the change to reactors. 

Weapons

I haven't tried the new weapons at all, as my Zetki Carcinnox and Zetki Apoc still tear through enemies and I see no reason to change them.  New weapons are nice to let players change up play-styles, but there's also no real incentive to use or even try them out like there is with the rest of Warframe in regards to mastery points, if there was then I'd probably have more to say about them, but since there isn't I don't. 

Hulls

The addition of hulls makes sense since they effect the Railjack's health and armor, especially over how it was before being effected by avionics, although I think Anode Cell and Maxima made sense since they effected shields but that's getting off point.  I only see two downsides to the addition of hulls.  One, that "early adopters" didn't get anything towards bridging the gap of where they could have been at before removing avionics/mods that effected health and armor and where they are forced to be at after those avionics/mods removals, a tier 3 Sigma series, while not overpowered, would have been a nice way of trying to bridge that discrepancy do that.  Two, that Mk. 3 hulls don't have any traits like other Mk. 3 components.  Only if you're using a Mk. 3 Lavan reactor with a trait, of boosting shields if using a Lavan hull, do hulls effect traits. 

Reactors

Reactors, I believe, are by far the biggest change to Railjack components this update, before they used to effect avionics capacity and maximum flux energy (more on energy in Railjack Resources).  Before I would run a Mk. 3 Vidar Reactor with a trait of 2x invulnerability after a major hull breach was repaired, not because of the trait but because it gave the highest avionics capacity at the cost of the lowest maximum flux energy capacity of Mk. 3 reactors.  More avionics capacity meant I could slot more and higher upgrade avionics into my ship, including Hyperflux which fixed the low flux energy of the reactor.  The trait was just icing on the cake, because if somehow if my ship did get a major breach then fixing it just let it's health recover for longer which let it survive longer.  Now I'm running a Mk. 3 Zetki reactor that has a trait which has a 50% chance to fix an electrical hazard every 5s.  Mainly because duration doesn't matter at all to me for any of the battle plexus mods and range doesn't much as either since they changed tether (I also cannot use tether right now as each time I try to nothing happens not even charging me energy).  Only power really matters since Seeker Volley can obliterate anything you can see besides a crewship, and that's Zekti's main stat.  The trait is also another positive as electrical hazards are the only hazard that cannot be remotely fixed and stops you from remotely fixing other hazards, which this reactor has a good enough chance of trying to fix that.  Let's talk about how the change to reactors changes the values of battle mods though.  It's been said that the values of the battle plexus mods would be lower than there battle avionics counterparts, but with a max Mk. 3 reactor match them, or with a max Mk. 2 reactor exceed them.  What was glossed over here though was that what was said only applies to one part of that battle mods stats.  If you use a Zetki Mk. 3 reactor you'll just about match the power of Void Hole before the change, but you'll have less range or and even less duration than it's pre-update version.  So what was done here was that they basically nerfed all battle mods and only let you increase one of their stats back to pre-update effectiveness.  Overall, to me, the reactors change seems like it happened so they could incorporate the addition of the plexus and nerf some battle avionics.

Overall I feel that just looking at components this is negative.  More weapons mean more variety, but with no incentive to try/use them there's nothing wrong with sticking with what you were using before.  The addition of hulls makes sense from a ship component standpoint, but not giving "early adopters" something to put themselves back were they could have been before health/armor wise seems like bad taste, and not giving Mk. 3 hulls a trait just feels like a let down compared to other Mk. 3 components.  Again, I feel reactors only changed to make room for the addition of the plexus and nerf some battle avionics, since before they effected the capacity of the avionics grid and flux energy the ship had before the update and you can only increase one stat of a battle mod up to pre-update levels.

Railjack Layout

I'm very divided on this one really.  The biggest points are the relocation of gunner turrets and the shrinking of the ship interior.  I don't think the relocation is either positive or negative as without intrinsic rank 2 for Gunnery you'll still only see half of the battle, just instead of being only able to see the left or the right you'll only be able to see the top or the bottom.  As for shrinking the ship interior, I both like and hate it.  It's now easier to move around the Railjack on foot, but it also makes it seem like the Railjack is less than it was before even though the outside is the same size.  At Tactical 3 you only needed to move to patch any hazards (unless you also had Engineering 10 to fix them remotely), or in the pilots, or at least my case, move back a little from the pilot seat so I could teleport to the forge, or vice-versa, because the map was to big to see the teleport points between those two areas.

So I have to say it's a positive gameplay wise to be able to more easily run around the Railjack, but a negative in making the same sized Railjack feel smaller.  So zero-sum change here I guess?

Railjack Resources

Railjack resources is another back change.  It's nice that they reduced the type of resources need to forge stuff, I'd also say it's nice they reduced some of their costs as well, but when you have less types of resources than before this was need to go along with that change.  Everything else beyond that though is a mess.  Since revolite, munitions, and dome charges are all personal the forge is more of a place where people go to refill what they need instead of having one person being able to monitor what the crew is low on.  What further makes that an issue is that the forge cooldowns are for the whole group and not by person.  So one person could use all four forges to make dome charges and then a hull breach happens and no one has any revolite then no revolite can be made and the ship and the mission ends in failure.  Now people can say "someone can still work as an engineer and make stuff you just need to tell them what" playing on PS4 that takes why too long to type out in a mission and it's a nuisance to use crew quick commands, compared to as before if someone worked as engineer they could monitor resource levels themselves.  Then there's the reduction in how much revolite and dome charges you have, sure if you add the group total together it's more, but it's also less efficient than pre-update.  Before you can have one person stay in the forward artillery and take down all the crewships with only minimal luck if the Railjack had Artillery Cheapshot.  Now they either have to be extremely lucky, switch with someone else, tell the engineer to make more dome charges (if someone is even still trying to be an engineer), or go make the dome charges themselves and come back to mount the forward artillery.  Basically Railjack positions have become musical chairs based on what resources you have available, unless, if there even is, the engineer wants to guess what is needed.  Past the items all being personal stock now, the caps for the items are weird, they start low but you can keep increasing them every time you forge the item and the cap stays at that increased cap until you dock.  I've seen nothing said about this.  Is this supposed to happen or is it a bug?  Either way the item caps need to return to their original values so people have resources to do their role, or their needs to be a way to permanently increase the item caps that stays between dockings.  Now for the worst part of the resource change, energy.  Before it was flux energy, and as before it was shared amongst all crew members, but now the energy used to power your Railjack powers comes from the same energy pool you use to power your warframe abilities.  That is both bad and makes no sense.  It's bad in that people who had max flux energy before are going to have less energy to use for Railjack battle powers now, and unless you have a high energy capacity warframe you're not going to be able to use a lot of Railjack battle powers before needing a refill on energy.  What makes that even worse is that if you use energy for Railjack battle powers you're going to have even less energy to use for warframe abilities, which if they want to have Railjack missions blend into regular Warframe missions like they said, is a terrible set-up.  It makes no sense in that the ship has a reactor which should be powering all of the Railjack including it's abilities, the people on the ship should only have to be there to keep track of the ships power and to push the button needed to activate the ability, not also provide power themselves to have the Railjack preform all of it's functions.  That be like every passenger on a plain needing to bring a car battery with them if they wanted their plane to have all of it's gauges to work for the pilot to have an easier time flying.

These changes are so bad and so assinine that very end this is at the very end of the negative spectrum.  It even makes me think could they have made this aspect of Railjack any worse?

 

Last I want to address the cost of Railjack itself, the cost of of upgrading a Railjack from how you first get it to having the best version of everything.

Cost of Railjack

The cost is two fold, components and modding.

Cost of Components

You can research basic Sigma series components at you're clan dojo and those are okay enough, not great, but you can get by with them with enough skill from both you and you're crew.  To get even better components, Lavar, Vidar, and Zetki, you need to get lucky from finding their wreckages as drops from enemy ships or end of Railjack mission rewards.  You then had to repair them using resources you got from Railjack missions (you can get the resources from non-Railjack missions, but you'll get them if lesser quantities if you go that route).  You can even infuse same house (Lavar, Vidar, and Zetki) into their same component type (reactor into a reactor, or an engine into an engine), even if their different Mks. (you can infuse a Mk. 1 into a Mk. 3 you'll get less than if you infused a Mk. 3 into a Mk. 3 but you'll still get a bump in stats) up until that houses and Mks. highest stat totals.  Now all of that has stayed the same as before the update, and (if I even noticed right or if they've said in the changelog), the only difference comes in the cost to repair and fuse components which it seems to be less to me.  If that's right, then while you still have to get lucky and find the components you want, now at least you'll need less materials to repair and fuse them to have higher stats.

Cost of Modding

Before the update all of the mods were called avionics and they had just about the same function, they turned a large chunk of avionics into aura mods and added a few additional mods with new effects, but the point is avionics served the same purpose as mods.  The difference between them is what they need to be upgraded and the limits placed on equipping them (look back at Plexus Set-up if you want to see about equipping avionics/plexus mods).  The cost of upgrading avionics was dirac and the cost of each upgrade was double of it's previous level with the first upgrading costing 10, 20, or 30 (based on the avionics's rarity).  The highest rank an avionic could achieve was rank 7 which cost a total of 1270 (if it stated at 10), 2540 (if it stared at 20), or 3810 (if it stated at 30) dirac.  You could then also upgrade each slot, integrated, battle, tactical on the avionics grid with dirac up to 3 times each, the first upgrade cost 200, then 600, then 1800 dirac (2600 dirac total for one slot, 39000 dirac total for all 19 slots).  You got dirac from either containers in Railjack mission, as end of mission rewards, or from scrapping avionics or Railjack wreckage components (5, 10, or 15 based on rarity plus 75% of the dirac you put into the avionic, or 75, 150, or 225 based on the Mk. of the component).  Since the update the cost to upgrade the mods is the same as the cost if you wanted to upgrade any other mod in Warframe, which means it costs endo and credits as well as the same amount of endo and credits to upgrade any other mod to that same rank.  They've also converted all dirac to endo at a one to one ration and only partially transferred upgrade progress of avionics to plexus mods.  So Blackout Pulse which once cost 3810 dirac to max rank (5410 dirac if hadn't already upgraded that slot) now costs 30690 endo and 1482327 credits.  That's about eight times more than it originally cost dirac/endo wise and 1482327 credits more, since you didn't even need credits before for avionics upgrades.  What makes the cost even worse for battle plexus mods is that you're paying over eight times more to upgrade to max rank on the plexus mod, yet you're not getting the same stats from the battle plexus mod as before the update as I went over in Reactors.  As I said at the beginning the two things I lack most in Warframe are endo and credits, the conversion of dirac to endo helped me to cover the endo cost to re-upgrade all my downgraded plexus mods but even I still lacked the credits in order to re-upgrade.  So yeah, they got rid of dirac in order to make avionics into mods and have them cost endo to be the same as upgrading other mods in Warframe, but in doing so they made upgrading Railjacks over eight times more expensive.

These changes to cost making upgrading components cheaper and mods more expensive is extremely negative.  The slight reduction in materials, if I'm even right there, in no way make up for the ludicrous increase in upgrading plexus mods.

 

One last point I would like to add is about matchmaking.

Matchmaking

Before the update if you wanted to matchmake you could choose whether you were the host or if you just want to join someone else's crew.  If you wanted to host you launched a mission from your Railjack's navigation console, if you wanted to join someone you could just use navigation from your Orbiter or from a Relay's navigation hub.  Since the update launching from the Railjack's navigation console doesn't automatically make you the host of a Railjack mission, instead you could be forced to join someone else Railjack crew.  That then begs the question of why did I upgrade my Railjack, if when I try to publicly host a mission I'm forced to join someone else's Railjack crew?  This goes back to Plexus Gameplay.  The set-up of your Railjack is going to effect how you mod your plexus, and different Railjacks are going to change how effective your plexus functions on that Railjack.  This is the wrong place to say this, but I believe it also adds to the point, the Command intrinsic was supposed to fill out your crew if no one else was trying to join Railjack missions, but now I think the Command intrinsic was released to fill out our crew when we're forced to play non-publicly if we want to use our own ship, and it doesn't even do that well.  The only good thing I can say is that now if I'm lucky enough to host and people try to force me to dry dock after a mission and I want to continue I can cancel the navigation to the dry dock, everyone is kicked from my crew, but they're still end up stuck on my Railjack until they decide to abort.  It also causes bugs where you can have more than four people in one mission.

Since you now don't get a choice if you're hosting or not when you're publicly playing Railjack missions this is a negative change since it has the chance at negating your Railjack upgrades if forced into someone else's Railjack crew for however many missions you stay with them.

 

As I started with I am a high rank player, most of these changes didn't effect me too much.  How I was affected was that with the addition of the plexus it reduced my ability to customize the Railjack as well as other players plexuses effecting what my Railjack does, which can screw up the bonuses I get from component traits.  I also needed to grind for a new component in the form of hulls to achieve pre-update health and armor on my Railjack.  I changed from using tether to using seeker volley as my main ability use because tether was nerfed in being able to manually detonate, as well as, if it wasn't then I would only be able get either it's range or damage back up to pre-update levels since the right reactor can only boost one stat or the other back to pre-update levels.  The change to Railjack resources mean that now the forge needs to either be more frequently or that everyone on the Railjack need to switch what they're doing to accommodate what resources are needed where and who has them, which requires a lot more communication before in a game that I've barely see any communication in during a mission, even less so when it deals with the achieving the goal of the mission itself.  I had to farm a lot more credits to get the plexus mods back to max even though my avionics were already max before the update.  And lastly, now I'm sometimes forced to join other players' Railjack crews when I was trying to host myself.

When trying to compare how other types of players would see these changes. I can agree that new players will like the the simplification of making Railjack modding more similar to other types of modding.  I can see how they'd like to be able to influence the mission through the use of their own mods.  I can also see casuals players being at about were they were at since they last played, or even more lost since you changed avionics to mods now, or maybe they'll even understand it better since it's been changed to the rest of Warframe modding.  I can also see both of those type of players like the changes to matchmaking because either they'll get to see their own Railjack in action or they might be matched with more people.

What new and casual players should fear from the new updates though is the cost of Railjack modding.  Before it cost only resources you got from playing Railjack missions so it didn't effect your ability to upgrade regular Warframe stuff.  Since it now costs the same resources they have to ask themselves do they want to increase a mod they use on their warframe or weapon which they use thought the entire game, or do they want to increase a plexus mod that's used in about 15% of the game and in which they also still have to use their warframe in, when they both cost the same amount.

Looking at these changes though they are bad.  Sure you won't notice them if you played before, but if you were told of the changes you should be able to see that they are bad. Soon enough I think people are probably going to stop playing Railjack publicly so that other's mod combinations don't go against what they were trying for with their Railjack and so that they can also use their own Raijack when they try to play.  After that I then think people are then going to stop playing Railjack missions altogether once they get all the unique rewards since the time to do a Railjack mission solo is a lot longer that doing any other regular mission, and AI crew members are as useful as a sack of rocks.  Once that happens then the Railjack mode will finally be dead since it will be less rewarding to do than regular missions.

I think if you really wanted to help new players, or even players who didn't understand Railjack the way it was, and you wanted to get them into it all you had to do was add some new rewards and a tutorial that explained the avionics grid better and showed them were all the Railjack stations and how to use them (pilot controls, the turrets, the forward artillery even if they don't have the rank for it yet, the slingshot even if they don't have the rank for it, the forges, how to use the omni, how to exit the Railjack to get into space, how to get back onto the Railjack from space).

[Saijyn]

Feedback- New Railjack systems and design

So first off let me begin by saying that I enjoy playing Warframe, it is a great way to mindlessly kill a great deal many hours and I have no regrets with my years spent playing it.
Thank you DE for providing these many years of hard work and service to create an enjoyable gaming environment with regular content updates.
You have worked hard for the platinum.

-
After discussing these issues with other players and the fact that 'Railjack' is the new centerpiece for the game to attract new and returning players I decided to leave this feedback.
Some of this will be my opinion, and I take responsibility for that, however I have tried to stick to provable facts of gameplay and mechanics.
This does not include issues related to 'bad hosts' with poor PCs or Internet speeds, nor of the inability to prevent players from having and (ab)using Form-Up.

Source:
I am a closed beta player, clan founding warlord, market and shop patron for 8 years running.
I am a Railjack 'early adopter' and was compensated with many resources upon integration of this new system, even though it only added to the mass I already have no use for.
I had a 'maxed' Railjack, intrinsics and avionics prior to the new update.
Another 8-10mil credits (extra, out of hand) later and many more hours farming new weapons and mods, I have for all intents 're-maxed' my ship.
I do, or at least did enjoy playing Railjack missions.


1-
First issue and the most important one I feel; No longer being able to host Railjack mission by running them from your own Railjack.

Lets please take a hard look at this.

After farming the costs required (which are considerably less now) and any who followed the cheeky encouragement from red-text guy for players to buy the Railjack with platinum about a week ago, the end result is you will be unlikely to use it (on high end missions or void storms where players frequent) in more than 1 out of 10 games, if you are lucky.

As with any other mission, if there is an open spot in an already running mission you will be seated there. Even if their Railjack is extremely sub-par for the mission at hand.
This works both ways, neither can you rely on others Railjacks if yours is poor to run end game missions, nor can you reliably use your own knowing it is maxed. Frustrations.

And before the half-baked Plexus system is mentioned in defense; this Can Not work.

Example; You have Quicklock, Ripload, Warhead and/or Scourging Warheads but no Tychos.
Same for weapon crit builds etc but Sigma weapons.
Same for symbiotic workings between certain components, such as Plating and Reactor.
Same for battle mods and reactors. There is no way to plan for this or even know WHAT you are dealing with while in the mission or how it will work with your 'plexus'.
Intrinsics into Gunner? Sigma weapons again. Nothing works together.


I understand the reasoning; trying to make it work like other missions so everyone doesn't try to be 'host' and nobody can find groups. But let me tell you that has -never- been an issue with finding a Railjack mission when I did not feel like hosting, NOR when I did choose to host was it ever a problem filling the group within moments (usually before fully loaded), at least for me in CST.
Preemptive action by DE? Possibly. Did it 'break' Railjack now? Absolutely.
Can you ask clan mates/friends to join your mission to ensure you host? Of course, but how many players always run premade groups? My clan did back in the early years, but now its by rote to click quick play the majority of the time.
Can you simply solo every mission to use your hard earned Railjack? Well sure, but that would have been more appealing before adding relic void-storms.
Is it still possible to facetank a 'Railjack mission' with Archwings? Sure, but then whats the point of a Railjack being there besides looking for all like a fancy Orbiter?
I also get that the whole game is a time sink for players, yet all other modes of play reward the player for their work and this one absolutely does not.
If you farm a frame, weapon or mod you then own it and are able to use it at will, even in random missions.

This very instance you have fully removed the reward from the work.




TLDR; Nothing works together. No reason to build/own a Railjack for yourself.




2-
That brings me to-
Second issue but 'slightly' less important; the new crusted mods look hideous and the entire design of 'plexus' has lost the elegance and beauty of the original Avionics layout.





The fix: The design and systems were never broken before. The new missions/sectors are great however there is no reason to run them in a personal/geared Railjack.

Bring back ability to host when launching from your own Railjack at the very least, that will square the issue with maybe most players.

The Railjack itself being a personal, customizable and even purchasable multi-person vehicle creates its own set of separate issues not relatable to by the rest of the game due to its very nature and trying to shoe horn it into place with the rest is not working.


Thanks for any time spent reading this.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Saijyn
visual acuity

[(PSN)naru91yo]

Il 16/3/2021 alle 23:26, [DE] Danielle ha detto:

 

feedback, feedback ... I really struggle not to repeat it but it is the most annoying thing ... give the possibility to choose whether or not to use your railjack, rather re-enter the previous host mechanics!  I started playing at 8 and it is now 10:45 and I was unable to do half a mission!  the feedback is this:
 1) most aim to enter with their railjack!  I happen to lose the team over and over again because the players want to enter as a host and have left.
 2) when I manage to enter as a host and someone enters, the result was;  there are those who came in to "test" the mission, the weapons of my railjack the arc artillery and then left, those who followed me to the objective of the mission and then left (I was doing the orthix, so  I found myself working for 2 or more people alone), result?  back to playing alone!  the feedback is that with the new host system that was supposed to help us find crew quickly it became a reason to push us to play alone!  I only find people playing alone or with friends, in public with railjack is to be avoided!  and in any case it changes little because if you are the host you find yourself waiting as before, except that before the players wanted to be a crew, now enter, see that it is not his railjack and close!
 Excuse me for the term, but it is really stupid to give the possibility to rig a railjack and not even be able to choose whether to use it or not!  what game makes you play with equipment you can't use !?
 It does not make sense!

[(PSN)naru91yo]

feedback, feedback ... I really struggle not to repeat it but it is the most annoying thing ... give the possibility to choose whether or not to use your railjack, rather re-enter the previous host mechanics!  I started playing at 8 and it is now 10:45 and I was unable to do half a mission!  the feedback is this:
 1) most aim to enter with their railjack!  I happen to lose the team over and over again because the players want to enter as a host and have left.
 2) when I manage to enter as a host and someone enters, the result was;  there are those who came in to "test" the mission, the weapons of my railjack the arc artillery and then left, those who followed me to the objective of the mission and then left (I was doing the orthix, so  I found myself working for 2 or more people alone), result?  back to playing alone!  the feedback is that with the new host system that was supposed to help us find crew quickly it became a reason to push us to play alone!  I only find people playing alone or with friends, in public with railjack is to be avoided!  and in any case it changes little because if you are the host you find yourself waiting as before, except that before the players wanted to be a crew, now enter, see that it is not his railjack and close!
 Excuse me for the term, but it is really stupid to give the possibility to rig a railjack and not even be able to choose whether to use it or not!  what game makes you play with equipment you can't use !?
 It does not make sense!

[Cristovelli]

I like the new missions and look forward to them reaching a more polished state, I think they will eventually become fun to play more regularly. But as it is now, the flow of Railjack mission entry and exit leaves much to be desired.

When I am on my Railjack and select a mission from the Nav, that means I should be hosting the mission, not joining other squads. That is why I am on the ship, because I have selected my Plexus configuration for Pilot and intend to use my ship.
If I wanted to join an existing squad, I would do so from my orbiter, and I would select one of my Plexus configuration for a supporting role.

This brings me to another point which is, there should be a checkbox for Plexus configs: "Use when Host". That way when I am piloting my ship the Plexus setup will always be my preference regardless of the config I have selected for joining active missions, because there is no opportunity to change Plexus once a mission starts, and as things are now, you don't know if you are going to be hosting or not until you select the mission.

Another thing is, that while I get the "immersive" or "narrative" reasoning for needing to visit the Dry Dock to configure your Railjack, it is cumbersome to require loading screens, cutscenes or various fiddly navigational efforts just to access essentially, another equipment menu. Our Orbiters should be equipped to allow routine maintenance of the Railjack. "Why even have the Dry Dock then?" I don't know... but it does look cool.

Lastly, we need a way to Leave Squad at the end of a run, to keep our rewards and depart the ship if the host wishes to continue with more missions instead of Dry Dock. Just like with Open World and Endless missions, you need to be able to opt out of serial runs.
And the mission rewards screen does not need to pop up two or three times at each transition screen at the end of a mission: once when the mission concludes, once at the Dry Dock, and AGAIN when you return to your orbiter. It doesn't even always show the same results each time and it's confusing and tedious. If I want to see it again, View Last Mission Results exists.

[Spam661]

New railjack is is bad.  It used to be unique and different. The ship way too small now. Dunno where the turrets are now.  Worst is the corpus missions. Did one and stopped. Litterally just fly to defense mission and that's it. It's the same as star chart, except you have to wait 10 minutes for everyone to get there. 

 

One of the perks now is decrease Invaders to ship. No. I want more Invaders, more xp. Why even change the perks???