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Update 29.10.0: Command Intrinsic Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


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il y a 17 minutes, Stalker_says_hello a dit :

Pretty sure they said the intrinsic points for command is place holders cause they don't want people maxing crewmate skills yet. 

people like me have all maxed,  is only 512 points , not 1024 like in the begining

Edited by Zeliphar
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55 minutes ago, Zeliphar said:

people like me have all maxed,  is only 512 points , not 1024 like in the begining

That's not what is being referred to. They're talking about the skill points you get for leveling up the command intrinsic which you can then spend on each crew member to enhance their various skills, and how they're limited to only 3 points right now because they don't want us maxing out our crew.

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Is it possible to develop the ability to command a gunner crewmate to focus on using Forward Artillery and target on crewships? (and prioritize their weak spot in case they're in sight and not shielded providing the gunner is qualified enough)

As someone who've played a lot of railjack early on, my only problem with soloing was how I deal with crewships without abandoning the railjack.

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16 hours ago, Stalker_says_hello said:

Just noticed crewmembers can't fix major brezchefs that's the 60 sec timer. Aren't they suppose to repair stuff? 

They absolutely can when they're assigned to engineering. I know because taking my ship with starter plating to the veil saw a lot of catastrophic hull breaches; I'd have never succeeded if I had to come back to fix them myself every time.

 

Anyway:

Overall, I'm extremely happy with Command Intrinsic. It does almost everything I wanted, I just have three major complaints:

1. Your crew won't shoot at exterior objectives (eg grineer radiators, corpus security nodes). I'd really like if gunners were able to shoot at these on their own, to save me from having to pop back to the ship to shoot them myself when I'm doing a boarding PoI.

2. Your pilot won't point you towards priority targets when you're in the forward artillery/slingshot seat. It's extremely difficult to use the FA and slingshot while the AI is flying the ship, because they'll never point the nose to the target. You could fix this by either changing AI to make them point towards priority targets (ie crewships, corpus capship reactor vulnerability points), giving us the ability to order the AI to do that (perhaps through the command menu?), or making it so that slingshot/forward artillery is 360 degree just like turrets are.

3. Liches are almost useless. I can have an engineer carrying a tigris prime that kills boarders just as well and also repairs the ship if anything happens, or I can have a lich with an unmoddable kuva weapon that kills boarders but does nothing else. It's no contest. Please consider either letting liches do other crew tasks like engineering, or adding a fifth "defender" slot so that liches don't have to compete with more useful crew.

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Lich crewmates are basically pointless
they wander around the interior waiting for a boarding party... that never comes with a good pilot

Lich crewmates should be customizable, colors and syandana (no attachments)
they should be allowed any Lich weapon the player owns
maybe they could be gunners or pilots
we should be able to rank them up to level 5 if they weren't captured at level 5
and, especially with how they are now, they should be able to be on call

right now they're like glorified decorations

I'd also like to see a full crew of Tenno allowed a single AI crewmate
AI crew is nice to have, but clearly not as good as a whole Tenno, so I don't think it'd be OP to have ONE with a full group

lotta work goes into getting a lich compared to the other AI crew, their usefulness should reflect that

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Can you please adjust the required boarding party members? Let only 1 or 2 Tenno to board and complete the ground mission while other Tenno can do Railjack combat and exploration if they want. It would give us a much better freedom

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In regards to Gunnery rank 10 and Command:

  • Consider swapping Gunnery rank 10 for the suggestion of allowing the use of forward artillery from the pilot seat. This is one of the most suggested changes and it not only solves the Gunnery rank 10 issue, it also helps alleviate one of the main problems people have with the Command intrinsic, being that forward artillery is not well-integrated into the AI crew (pilot won't point towards targets, gunner AI cannot use forward artillery)
  • Alternatively, consider allowing the use of both forward artillery and the archwing slingshot in 360 degrees similar to turrets.

Please keep this in mind, this is a perfect chance to solve two of the biggest issues/requests concerning both Gunnery and Command intrinsics with one single change.

I will repost this in the Command intrinsic (Hello from the Intrinsics 2.0 thread!!) feedback thread since it is partially relevant to it as well. Now off to another session to gather more feedback!

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I would like to be able to max out my crew members competencies. Would it be possible to have a mechanic in the game that allowed for the crew members to earn competency points?

I get a strong feeling that you've designed Railjack to be played with a group/squad. The bots are available if have to play solo for a little while, but the intention is to play with other players/Tenno. So, I feel that it might be against you're design to allow for players to improve the bots to a point where they might be better to play with than other Tenno.

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15 hours ago, Gullim92 said:
  • As for liches, I haven't personally used them but since they can only take the defender role they sound quite useless. I'm sure its old feedback by now but please consider letting liches take other roles.

The liches are by far the best defenders, so you're trading flexibility for power.  I'm ok with that.

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4 hours ago, Gullim92 said:

In regards to Gunnery rank 10 and Command:

  • Consider swapping Gunnery rank 10 for the suggestion of allowing the use of forward artillery from the pilot seat. This is one of the most suggested changes and it not only solves the Gunnery rank 10 issue, it also helps alleviate one of the main problems people have with the Command intrinsic, being that forward artillery is not well-integrated into the AI crew (pilot won't point towards targets, gunner AI cannot use forward artillery)
  • Alternatively, consider allowing the use of both forward artillery and the archwing slingshot in 360 degrees similar to turrets.

Please keep this in mind, this is a perfect chance to solve two of the biggest issues/requests concerning both Gunnery and Command intrinsics with one single change.

I will repost this in the Command intrinsic (Hello from the Intrinsics 2.0 thread!!) feedback thread since it is partially relevant to it as well. Now off to another session to gather more feedback!

I think the first idea kind of messes with the flow and feel of railjack too much, but the second is great, especially with NPC pilots.

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Command Intrinsic is pretty solid as it is currently. I was pleasantly surprised with how well it functions and I'm happy that it sufficiently does the fundamentals of what I hoped it would do.  That said,  some additions / tweaks could really make it shine even more.

 

  • Pilots / Gunners should be able to target the exterior objectives (radiators, security nodes)
  • I think this was previously stated that in a future update the crew can earn affinity for themselves which gets converted into competency points that you can then spend to train them.  Really hope this does make it in and that we can get some additional functionality for our AI crews in place of the ranks that currently give a competency point to spend.
  • On-Call should allow the summoned crewmate to persist in the mission until it ends or crewmate dies, like specters do.

 

Additional functionality would be gaining the ability to give more specific commands and behaviors to the crew:

  • command Engineer  to craft things in the forge, which seeing the payloads in tactical menu would be useful for and would also be a good addition
     
  • command Pilot to hold position - pilot will sit idle until slingshot, artillery cannon is fired, or 60s pass.  this will allow for a window in which the player to make use of the slingshot or artillery cannons without the pilot taking off in random directions after you line up the railjack.   They could additionally have behaviors to prioritize aiming  towards crewships and/or artillery targets when a player is manning the artillery cannon or in the slingshot.
     
  • command a crew member to man the artillery cannon - see marking system details below for an idea as to how they could use it
     
  • commands via marking system idea: host players piloting, gunning, or in archwing can mark fighters, crewships, compatible objects, and objective markers.  Once mark is placed, player will be prompted to select a gunner, crew manning the artillery cannon, or none. Crew will respond based upon their current assigned roles. Marks will last until target is destroyed/disabled, or destination has been reached if mark is not an enemy/is destructible.
     
    • marked fighters, crewships, compatible objects:  gunner will prioritize those targets and use munitions against them if selected for mark.  crew on the cannon will fire at target if selected for mark.  Pilot will aim and move railjack towards target regardless of who the mark is assigned to.
       
    • marked objectives (yellow / white): pilot will move towards those markers. mark will disappear once within roughly 1500m

 

Crew liches have a few things that need to be changed to make them more viable, as presently they really aren't worth using over regular crew:

  • need to be customizable, even if its weapons only with the same limitations as the regular crewmates.  Tho being able to give them kuva weapons that you've collected could be cool too
  • need to be summonable with "On-Call".  
  • Need to be able to assign them roles like regular crew.  Them being defensive only makes them not very useful when regular crew can deal just as much damage if not more with player weapons, and help with managing the ship.
  • not really a necessity, but it would be nice if Liches got their own dialogue like the non-lich crew instead of only screaming angrily every now and then.  Bonus points if they also have lines based on their quirks, if they have any (would be hilarious to have a lich with a fear of space travel on my crew and have them actually reflect that)
Edited by Lokidus_Prime
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possibilityhello before returning on his point I will prescribe that (I am MR 30 with good equipment and Railjack so i wouldn't talk about difficulty problem)

I have a problem to appreciate the new content:

you cannot change crew members from the orbiter menu.
crew members have no power from the tactical menu (like warframe)
classic crew member have pre-defined statistics (we can't change them but we can add 3 skill points
) for me it would be more interesting if he only had Piloting, Gunnery, Repair. and add them levels (30) that he gains in mission if he increases their damage and health / shield states.
(so that is remains coherent it would be necessary to attribute randomly 4 point and with a
possibility to add +4)
Lichs have 5x to 10x more HP than regular crew members.
the lich can only be defenders.
the lich are not customizable (no change of color / addition of cosmetics).
all bot crew members will stay in the ship when missions including defense, extermination or orphanage so we will be alone to fight.

- Command

level 1 (+ 1 crew member)
give the 3 because it is only useful if a person plays alone and needs Xp to have at least a normal number of crew, it is terrible for morale.

level 2 (+1 skill point)
per month +2 skill point

level 3 (+ 1 crew member)
grants a power from the tactical menu to the bot crew member. teleports the bot crew member to the player to aid and defend them

level 4 (+1 skill point)
the talent of levels 7 re-allocate the skill points add

level 5 (+ 1 crew member)
the level 8 talent Lich crew member

level 6 (+1 skill point)
per month +2 skill point

level 7 (reassign skill points add)
bot crewmembers reappear in Railjack 60s after death

level 8 (crew member lich)
allows the lich to do more roles (Pilotage, Gunnery, Repair).

level 9 (crew member can help in non-Railjack missions)
it is ok

level 10 (?)

it's up to you to surprise me


that's all (this represents my opinion is what I would find interesting to add or modify)
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Hey! I'm back with more feedback.

After much testing today, I've come to some general conclusions:

  • As I've said before, Defender role is pointless. Engineers can defend the ship just as well.
  • The crew's AI is pretty basic. They don't go for objetives. They just roam and shoot. If you are solo, you are doing all objectives alone.
  • They do not use the Forward Artillery, Ordnances, the Forge, Battle Mods or anything of the sorts.

So, my suggestion is a complete overhaul of how the Command Intrinsics works.

  • Higher levels should grant us smarter AI. Pilots should position the ships close to objetives, chase crewships, use skills, etc. Gunners should move to Forward Artillery to get rid of crewships, avoid shooting all engines on crewships, use Ordnance to explode Crewship force fields and heavy fighter units (Outriders, etc). Engineers should use the Forge once in a while.
  • We need manual commands for each role, instead of just assigning roles and relaying on the AI alone. After all, it's the Command Intrinsic. We could, for example, ask a NPC to use the Forge, ask a NPC to head to the secondary objective, or ask a NPC to go to the Forward Artillery.
  • NPCs should either take into account your Plexus or have their own Mini-Plexus to equip mods!
  • The NPCs should communicate what they are doing. This will alert all players of how the AI is handling the ship, while also serving as tutorial for newer players, hinting for the best case scenario.

Thanks again for the great update. :)

Edit with a New Feedback: Gunner Aim

Gunners are MUCH BETTER with hitscan weapons, such as Pulsar. Auto fire weapons are like 5x worse and Cryophon is like 10x worse.

Edited by Lakyus
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My only real complaint with the system currently is how you can't use the forward artillery with a pilot reliably. I think if you're in the FA, and have a crew member piloting, they should automatically circle/focus on crewships, so that you can actuallly shoot them with the FA.

My only other complaints so far are cosmetic: let us access the crew management menu from the plexus terminal in the orbiter, and have crew loung around the railjack when in the drydock, instead of doing their mindless jog around the various stations. Maybe even eventually let us put them in our orbiters so it's not quite so empty?????

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Pilot should do these things right
:Killing crewships (at the moment they can not even do level 1 crewship in earth area in combination with gunner npc)
:Collecting stuff after mission end (mission is over and he will just go afk, meanwhile he should go around and shoot resources and collect already dropped items)
:Complain about crew like real player(hey, are you all afk, is it just me working now? I'll let you know that you will be reported!)

Objective should be priority, and pilot level 5 should be immune vs the deathstar cannon, because they are unable to understand that it is to be avoided

We should be able to level our crewmembers after we reach level 9, something like 10wins per level unless you have other plans when it comes to leveling of these.

And i was testing them with maxed ship in the lowest tier missions, if they can not do those they surely can not do what players actually want to do, and that are high tier missions, the missions where we actually need help with running the ship alone.

Uniform button would be great, I do not really enjoy to give same items to each npc with same colors, and as crew members it is logical for them to wear same stuff, maybe with different shirt color like in star-trek :^) but yeah it would be very fancy to have "uniform" button where we just make preset for every new npc that joins the crew.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WRyf9M0.jpg[/img]

As seen above they are each maxed in their role, yet still unable to do easiest earth mission. 
 

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This is the third time that I'm putting this up, these need to be included with the command intrinsic.

 

·       Besides syndicate and kuva lich npcs, they should include new npcs like Dax soldiers, zealots from nightwave and any other npcs in the future.

·       Make the kuva liches be able to be customisable like the crew and make those customisations carry over when they appear in other missions.

·       The squad should work in the same way as in Mass Effect where you can command them to do certain things by using the gear wheel e.g. attack, stay, summon, send back to ship etc.

·       Give them the function to be able to revive you and any fallen npcs.

·       Since they are apart of your team, they should have one ability that can help while in the mission e.g. the ability to levitate enemies in the air.

·       If you pick the syndicate ally, the customisation should carry over to them in syndicate missions.

You should be able to bring all of the squad to join you off your railjack.

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2 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

Pilot should do these things right
:Killing crewships (at the moment they can not even do level 1 crewship in earth area in combination with gunner npc)
 

Was testing crew functions all morning and my crew was killing Crewships up to and including the top Veil Grineer node without my assistance... slowly. They will not -hunt down- the crew ships, and always leave one hanging out somewhere for the player to kill, but a full crew does kill them without my assistance, of course far more slowly than I can kill them all in under 5 minutes in a decent human team with the slingshot. They will not attack external turrets on objectives once revealed IME.

BTW my ship was configured for pure turrets, no artillery, ordinance and not using any specials at all. Was using Carcinnox on all turrets and going to try the other weapons with the crew soon as I get more time. Very happy with Command so far, some very few cosmetic type bugs, but for someone who wants to do solo and is willing to spend about 3-4x the time to do the missions that a decent human crew can do them, it's ideal and a great addition. Have only had Red Veil and Suda so far, the Red Veils dont talk much and the Suda is a chatty cathy, no idea if that is faction specific or just random.

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Crewmember competency "Piloting" needs improvements. They fly very slowly, and aimlessly, increasing this speed by 25% serves no purpose. Not only do crew members not fly to points of interest (mission objectives), they even steer the Railjack away from them while you charge the forward artillery.

Liches could certainly use a bit of customization. At least modding for their weapon would be appreciated.

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Show lich stats like other crew
Even though currently Liches can only be used as defenders it would still be helpful for us to be able to see their stats like combat and endurance, so we can choose which ones are better or fit our tastes.

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Having an NPC pilot is a fantastic addition, but the main problem I have with them is their movement tends to make shooting crewships with Frontal Artillery almost impossible, any time I line up a shot they're outside of the area I can aim, or movement in the last second causes me to miss (And I have quite good aim so it's not just a lack of skill, but it's more convenient for me to fly and FA alone than rely on an NPC pilot).

I would love to see some kind of soft lock-on system put in place to temporarily dedicate an NPC pilots line of sight towards a crewship of your choosing, something along the lines of aiming at a crewship within certain distance of you, in reticle and push button to lock on for a few seconds having the ship keep the crewship in sight with smoother movement. 

And perhaps for the sake of multiplayer, a visual indicator to tell the pilot the FA is trying to target a specific crewship, without the pilot lock-on. 

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  • The New Command Intrinsic

Overall, its pretty great. Love being able to play solo for once without parking the ship on the edge of the map and doing all the objectives via archwing. As other have said there are some issues though. A lot of the command skills are pretty boring, which is a bit disappointing. Unlock a crew member, unlock a competency point, unlock a crew member, unlock a point, etc etc. They should be compressed into "Unlock a member AND a point" for those upgrades. Then use the extra slots for more interesting upgrades, like being able to keep your crew active when players join your squad.

  • Crew Members (AI, Equipment, Cosmetics)

AI - The AI seems a bit dumb, they kinda just wander in circles most of the time, changing directions randomly. Looks very awkward and robotic. Combat AI seems fair and they do make their way around to repair so I can't complain about that but the idle behavior needs to be looked at. Maybe some idle animations. Or pre-set activities they can busy themselves with, tinkering with panels, etc to make them seem less derp.

Equipment - Its annoying that some weapons are missing from their options. Would be better to give them melee and secondaries, or the arm cannons I worked hard to obtain. Still though, its not bad. Wish Specters would use our modded gear like they do! Should be able to customize the gun your lich has, even if it is limited only to Kuva weapons. I should be able to give my lich whatever kuva weapon I own.

Cosmetics -  Also not bad. Its nice being able to apply colors to them and add syandanas. Though the position of the syandanas needs to be closer, many of the "pegs" that connect them barely touch their bodies. For the most part they are pretty nice and I appreciate the effort to allow us to customize them. Though one problem I have is the lack of an energy color to pick from. Seems odd I know since they don't use energy but some items like Revenant's shoulder armor have flowing energy flames that are stuck default blue because we can't choose an energy color for the attachments. Oh and allow us to choose which appearance config slot our crew members use on their weapons, its annoying if I want to make a specific color for them to use and they always use config A. I don't want to alter config A on all of my weapons. Oh and some lich customization and ephemeras for the crew would be welcome as well.

Other - I would really like to see more types of crew members. Where are the Solaris and Ostron? How about rare unique crew members like Clem, or other enemy units with unique behaviors? A Hyekka master with its pet? A rogue Crewman that has a shield osprey? A Kavor Defector? How about through Nightwave offering some unique crew members like a Saturn Six fugitive throwing his incendiary grenades or an Emissary Zealot or two?

  • Competency Points

Feels as though a couple more competency points would feel a lot better to me. Always feels like I'm just shy of points I'd like to invest, the lack of points makes the entire competency system seem shallow. Either allow us more points or give us a perk to remove and reallocate points that the crew members come with.

  • Command Intrinsic Abilities

Since there's only one ability associated with this tree I'll get right into it. The Summon crew member ability should be a permanent summon, not a timed one. How are they meant to help me solo a mission when they vanish after the first mobile defense point? Liches should be summoned with this ability too.

Edited by xcrimsonlegendx
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2 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Was testing crew functions all morning and my crew was killing Crewships up to and including the top Veil Grineer node without my assistance... slowly. They will not -hunt down- the crew ships, and always leave one hanging out somewhere for the player to kill, but a full crew does kill them without my assistance, of course far more slowly than I can kill them all in under 5 minutes in a decent human team with the slingshot. They will not attack external turrets on objectives once revealed IME.

BTW my ship was configured for pure turrets, no artillery, ordinance and not using any specials at all. Was using Carcinnox on all turrets and going to try the other weapons with the crew soon as I get more time. Very happy with Command so far, some very few cosmetic type bugs, but for someone who wants to do solo and is willing to spend about 3-4x the time to do the missions that a decent human crew can do them, it's ideal and a great addition. Have only had Red Veil and Suda so far, the Red Veils dont talk much and the Suda is a chatty cathy, no idea if that is faction specific or just random.

It has to be related to your specific guns then, my maxed crew on maxed ship does not kill level 1 crewship even after 4 hours, they will just lower it to 0life, then it does regenerate its life to something 1/3 and they do it again and again and again...

 

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