Jump to content

Update 29.10.0: Railjack Intrinsics 2.0 Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]Danielle
 Share

Recommended Posts

my feedback : even if we doesn't take into account the negative of rank gunnery 10, the positive is still very much useless for people who knows how to aim. it's almost a waste of slot. i think the gunnery rank 10 should let pilots and gunners use the big forward artillery from pilot and gunner seat, so you don't have to ALWAYS change from pilot/gunner to forward artillery seat, which is a very annoying process every single time. solo, OR multiplayer.  

Then i would be totally okay with having some bonus heat acretion, i wouldn't mind. 

Edited by mikakor
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-03-20 at 9:18 AM, TheBestAsbestos said:

Currently rank 9 in gunnery, flush heat sinks, doesn't function if you have context action to reload enabled. It only works as intended if you have a unique keybind for reload. I had to move around a bunch of bindings to make it work and remap my mouse. A hassle, but anyone using a controller likely wouldn't be able to make it work at all.

I second this!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The battleforge seems significantly less important now and by extension facets of the engineering intrinsic path feel a little weak.


In the prior iteration of railjack, engineering was quite essential, given how someone topping up the shared ammo pool or giving an energy boost at an important time could dynamically alter a mission.

In the current iteration (playing solo mostly at the moment but have been on the occasional squad mission) I have yet to find a reason to visit the battleforge unless some corpus boarder was trying to break it open with a crowbar and steal the gubbins. 

The choice to allow anything built in the forge to affect the squad is excellent. This fits well with the support role the engineer is focused on.
However, I cannot view my squads munition levels (maybe the forge could have some kind of indicator as to group members munition counts). 
The role of supporting your team members is one enjoyed by some and it'd be nice to give that some depth again.

Long, meandering and unfocused section :
There are cheaper, easier and far more sensible ways to boost energy now.
A pilot or crew member can just step back, drop energy boost and step back in far quicker than communicating a request to a squadmate.
It seems a bit pointless wasting specialized resources in the battleforge as a result 

I'm still not quite sold on the individual pools as an idea. Mostly for the way it grinds against the internal logic
(is our plexus a personal reactor and nanoforge, powering and supplying material for whatever system we integrate with? do we just have sticky notes on missles in the munition bay saying "hands off"...)
I'm having trouble explaining to myself why we have all our own ammo and energy on a shared vessel, even if the convenience is understandable and welcome.

On a related note, it feels like we have a surplus of munitions and resources, especially in a full squad.
I do worry that this will be hard to balance against but that's beyond me. 
The effect of this I directly experience is an absence of need to replenish.

The only thing I could come up with that would give the battleforge some utility was if (with the exception of dome charges) you were to use one of the replenishment options, it conferred a small temporary buff to the corresponding components. 

Repair hull : slight armour buff or increased health.
Repair shield : slight shield buff or regen boost.
Munitions : small damage boost for weapons
Energy :  boosted regen or slight speed boost.

Of course, I'd imagine this would just exacerbate the problem of a surplus of resources and balancing against that.
As such, I'm just left enjoying the new direction and experience but a little part of me is pining for some significance to return to the role of engineer.

Brief Synopsis :  prior version or railjack was not as fun as this iteration and overall it is certainly navigating in a better direction, however the role of an engineer has been significantly diminished and as such it is a less satisfying experience.
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RyanCooper101 said:

You do realize that Rank 9 (the one before it) lets you instantly REMOVE ALL HEAT by holding down R  for 0.5s right?

This is a direct upgrade to what we had before lol

Refer to the post above yours. Aim snap for me is a downside in it's own right.

I do agree that the rank 9 gunnery perk is good, very good even, but It doesn't change the fact that the rank 10 one is a hindrance.
I was against it without the overheat back in its first iteration, and nothing has changed since then.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With a fair amount of playtime in both Corpus and Grineer Proximas over the weekend, I've gathered what is likely my final round of feedback. While most of the changes to Intrisics 2.0 are great, there are a few outliers that I'll point out below, with any suggested changes I can come up with:

 

IN GENERAL

  • Reduced intrinsic costs are greatly appreciated, I actually feel like I can reach 10/10/10/10/10 without losing my sanity now!
  • Consider allowing players to disable individual intrinsic effects such as the infamous Gunnery R10 intrinsic, as many people (including me) actually consider the auto-aim a severe penalty on its own. I can guarantee that if auto-aim remains as a feature and I'm not allowed to disable it, I personally will not be leveling Gunnery to rank 10.

TACTICAL

  • Please consider allowing rank 3 "Command Link" to enable players to send specific commands to AI crews, such as using forward artillery, crafting resources at a forge, flying to and away from a marker or objective, engaging a specific target, etc.
  • I believe it has already been confirmed to be in the works, but of course please allow Necramechs to spawn in non-Railjack missions
  • Speaking of Necramechs, I would love a Tactical (alternatively Piloting or Command) rank that allows Necramechs to move on their own, much like Excalibur Umbra, and lets them fight alongside the player until we transfer into them.

PILOTING

  • Please consider replacing rank 7 "Necramech Haste" with something else. Not only is the speed increase negligible but many players, myself included, enjoy the feeling of weight and heaviness of Necramechs, and speed increases would potentially take away from this aspect. Perhaps consider adding movement speed increases as a Necramech mod and replacing rank 7 with something different (as stated above, a personal suggestion would be allowing Necramechs to move and fight on their own)
  • In a similar vein, rank 6 "Ram Jammer" is not of much use for experienced players, since we have the tools and skill to avoid ramsleds, and this skill can even be detrimental if a player purposefully wishes to engage boarding parties within the Railjack. Please consider replacing this with something different (sadly I have no good suggestions)

GUNNERY

  • Consider changing rank 4 "Archwing Fury" with something else. Archwing melee is in need of a full rework in order to be usable, these buffs are not enough to make it useful and simply waste a slot in Gunnery that could be used for something better. Additionally, the Railjack environment is currently too dangerous for melee to be viable as the player is under constant fire. And finally, why does the Gunnery intrinsic affect melee, a decidedly non-gun related skill?
  • Please reconsider rank 10 "Reflex Aim". It's old news by now that most players dislike this ability. Not only is the extra heat accretion a downside in the highest ranked intrinsic of a tree, the auto-aim is something many players, myself included, also dislike. I honestly prefer manual aiming than having my reticle hijacked by the game for 3 seconds. If by all accounts you must include auto-aim as a feature, please allow us to disable the intrinsic altogether with a toggle on the menu or something.
  • A suggestion I agreed with was replacing these ranks with better implementation of the forward artillery. For example, allowing us to use forward artillery and the Archwing slingshot in 360º just like turrets. This would also address one of the main requests with the Command intrinsic, being that it is currently very hard to use forward artillery while using an AI pilot. Alternatively, consider the option of allowing us to use the forward artillery directly from the pilot seat.

ENGINEERING

  • Please consider replacing rank 2 "Rapid Support" with something else, as air support charges are very rarely used by players, this is mostly a wasted intrinsic rank.
  • For solo players specifically, rank 10 "Anastasis" either makes AI engineers irrelevant, or is itself made irrelevant by AI engineers. On a personal note, I've always thought this was a little underwhelming for a rank 10 intrinsic, and was made even more underwhelming after the change to ship hazards that only allowed a single hazard of each type to exist at once. Please consider tweaking this or replacing it with something different. For example, allowing the player to use the forge from the tactical menu (perhaps with an elevated resource cost to balance it?)

 

That's all my feedback for Intrinsics 2.0! Overall we're in a MUCH better place than the previous iteration of Railjack, but there's still some room for further improvements. I'll be looking forward to upcoming changes and Update 30 in the future!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear DE
Please fit a perk somewhere in the intrinsics that will allow the operation of the forward artillery from the pilot seat.
The issue of leaving your ship completely still to get absolutely destroyed by everything while you leave your pilot seat to slowly go down into the artillery seat, wait for a long charge up and then slowly go back up to the pilot seat is horrendous, my ship always goes into catastrophic mode whenever i need to artillery a crewship. its the one thing that kills railjack for me, i love the mode otherwise.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-03-19 at 6:09 PM, Generally_Zod said:

Why does a rank 10 intrinsic have a downside to it? That feels like a punishment for having put in all that work, and really doesn't make me want to use that rank at all.

+1. 

If you want people to take it, we could use mechanics to try it out without committing. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Level 10 Gunnery Intrinsic is complete and utter hogwash. Check your stats after a month and see how many people actually hold off putting their intrinsics into it.

 

Change to:

Gunners can now use tab targeting.

 

^ fixed.

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just saw the penalty of heat accretion on the Rank 10 gunnery ability and knew ranking it up would be a terrible idea. Best preserve those intrinsics to max command rank 10, I thought to myself.

If possible, change this to something else, maybe ability to fire forward artillery from gunner seat?  and as a rank 10 gunner on pilot seat, should be able to mark the crew ship you want your crew member to fire artillery on whether its AI gunner or an actual player in gunner seat, I don't like it when I have to type on chat begging someone to fire artillery when it is very possible to ping a crewship to alert other players or AI that you need an artillery fired. 

Edited by Rhymontic
needed to explain my idea in detail.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the Engineering Intrinsics:

The biggest issue I have is that I'm now second-guessing each use of the Forges. While I can replenish stockpiles for the entire team, I have no way of knowing how much of a given ammo type everyone has or needs. Each player can only track their own needs, but uses the forges for everyone.

There is no point to being a core Engineer for the party, because you simply have no idea what everyone else actually needs ─ and with everyone's ammo pools being individualized, those needs may be different for each player, so the best thing to do is just go back and Forge when you need something. But, if one person burns through all of their own Dome Charges for the Forward Artillery, then goes back and uses Forges to recharge them, those are Forges that are giving everyone Dome Charges that only one person needed (possibly even over-capping them), and Forges that can't be used by anyone who needs more Revolite, Munitions or Energy. The considerations of overcapped or wasted ammo types were rarely on the table when these values were universal, and the crew's needs could be eyeballed.
(Rubbing salt in the wound is that someone else could just grab the main cannon and spend their charges, instead of needing the front gunner to go back and forge more.)

Which also ties into the newfound Energy issue: Railjack abilities burn player energy but most players are not tracking how much energy any other person on their team has (and the UI element for it is hardly noticeable). Meanwhile, Lavos has become the sole choice for gunning in Railjack because he just gives a cooldown to each ability which is short enough for most Durational skills; Hildryn is considered the worst possible choice because the cost of each Battle Avionic she casts goes up with each use; and neither one of these is affected by Forge Energy.

For actionable proposals, I suggest:

  • Change the Forge UI so that the Engineer can see how much of a given ammo type everyone has or needs. Maybe as a mouseover, or a short list in place of just showing yours.
    • At least for Dome Charges, Revolite and Munitions, an alternative is to revert the changes to them so they're universal again, as the case is with Hull. A UI element would still be necessary for everyone's Energy, however.
    • If you don't revert them though, Munitions cap likely needs to be brought down. 31 charges was fine to be shared by a whole squad, it's a lot for each player to use before needing the Forge; 8-15 per person is plenty.

That should just happen anyway, but I want to separate these next few out for a reason that will be obvious in a moment:

  • Allow non-Lavos/Hildryn players to regenerate energy over time while seated in a Gunner seat. This recharge can have a delay after each ability is used, or even be affected by hazards and boarding parties on the Railjack.
  • Reduce the rate of "Tax" on Hildryn for frequent ability use, and cause it to be reset whenever she completely regenerates shields.
  • Place a "Tax" on Lavos' Battle Avionics, so that Avionics cooldowns go up slightly with each use, to a cap. As with Hildryn, this tax can naturally diminish over time, whether or not Lavos is in the Gunner seat.
    • The priority is to bring up other frames to the same playing field as Lavos FIRST, then bring him down slightly SECOND so that he is considered a comparable alternative with a different niche, rather than to punish him for being the best choice.
  • Add UI elements to show the current "Tax" on Hildryn and Lavos, perhaps as a debuff on the player.
  • Adjust Forge Energy so that it also resets the "Tax" on Lavos' and Hildryn's Battle Avionics, in addition to replenishing a percentage of Hildryn's shields and reducing the remaining cooldowns of Lavos' Battle Avionics by a small amount.
    • In the Forge UI, the current "Avionics Tax %" on Lavos and Hildryn should be shown in the same place as the remaining Energy for other frames.

Or, as the ultimate alternative to those last few bullets, just remove Energy/Shield costs and Forge Energy, embrace the spike in Lavos play, and just make all Battle Avionics cooldowns for everyone. Seems a lot easier to balance, no?

Outside of these proposals, there are some things I've been hoping for Engineers to get for a while as well:

  • QoL: Show the number of Forges on cooldown in the Tactical Menu, and the remaining cooldowns on each.
  • Consider an Intrinsic to allow an Engineer to "Remote Forge" on a cooldown? Not entirely sure where you'd put it now though, unless you removed Rank 2 and bumped everything else down to fit it at 9 or 10.
Edited by Archwizard
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gunnery 9: Flush Heat Sinks

I have my RJ keybinds set to have R and F be up and down.  This is so shift is free for boost and space is free for Vector.  Because of this, this fast reload is non-operational for me as R is no longer bound to reload. 

If there are going to be intrinsic functions attached to keys, they need to be replicated in the RJ keybinds.  Blink and the future command intrinsic may suffer from this.  Thx

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the Rank 10 Gunnery Intrinsic:

I fail to understand why I've just spent 512 Intrinsics points to test out a penalty. I use Zoom when firing with pinpoint weapons like Photor, so the lock-on alone feels disruptive enough to my muscle memory since I'm stuck aiming at one target (possibly not even one I wanted if they're close together) regardless of how much I move my mouse. That was always annoying on its own, but the way the Intrinsic functions now is essentially a cost increase for using Zoom, which is just a straight penalty.

However, I have an alternative suggestion ─ have the Rank 10 intrinsic give the player an Alt Fire to Lock On option while retaining the Weapon Heat penalty for use of the Alt Fire.
And I don't just mean the slight aim assist to the reticule we have, I mean "Hold alternate fire to mark multiple enemies like Sepulcrum and auto-aim at all of them at once (possibly at an increased fire rate or as simultaneous shots at all), alternate fire again to reset locks." I would normally suggest having it fire rockets, but then you'd put Seeker Volley and Ordnance out of a job.
Or even just make it like Peacemaker, "Hold Alt Fire to continuously auto-fire at everything inside a reticule on screen." The actual function isn't particularly important here.
Point is, options. Alt Fire wouldn't affect players' muscle memory and would allow Zoom to remain unaffected. Something that combines the intended convenience of the original option with a power boost worthy of the grind to get it.

Edited by Archwizard
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-03-19 at 1:16 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

We have shared this feedback with Dev already but the way the new 'Flush Heat Sinks' perk on Rank 9 works + this heat accretion is something we want players to try over the weekend before we change. 

Gunnery rank 10 was annoyance in it"s first iteration and now it's just a huge investment for 2 drawbacks; keep in mikd that aim assist in itself is more of an annoyance than an upgrade for many players (specially those who can aim decently) and that's the reason why it's usually relegated to a setting instead of being treated as an upgrade.

Make aim assist available through a mod and give gunnery rank 10 an actual perk such as the ability to let side gunners rotate between the turret types equiped to the ship while the pilot has access to both turret types and can hold the weapon swap key to use heavy artillery. 

 

Railjack blink in its current state feels useless since the blink distance is very small and doesn't seem to scale with speed, making pilot rank 10 not worth the (big) investment either.

Edited by Stormdragon
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-03-19 at 7:07 PM, Vit0Corleone said:

IIRC, the MR comes from the intrinsic points, not from how you allocate them.

You could have 0 allocated points on all and it wouldn't affect your MR at all.

This is wrong, and the only reason I'd bothered to take Gunnery 10 back when its MR was a necessary part of hitting MR30 as a non-founder. Now I can blissfully leave Gunnery at 9 until the WF servers shut down or the Devs come to their senses.

  

On 2021-03-19 at 6:16 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

We have shared this feedback with Dev already but the way the new 'Flush Heat Sinks' perk on Rank 9 works + this heat accretion is something we want players to try over the weekend before we change. 

Nobody in their right mind was going to "try over the weekend" without some confirmation they'll be allowed to revert Gunnery 10 if they don't like it.

Edited by -Augustus-
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

Nobody in their right mind was going to "try over the weekend" without some confirmation they'll be allowed to revert Gunnery 10 if they don't like it.

Honestly, agreed. I actually regret investing in it and if this is permanent, with no refund, I might just avoid getting in the gunner's seat in the future.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly: Homing rounds is a better option than auto targetting.
That wouldn't mess with peoples aim have the same sort of effect AND justifies the increased heat cost

Edited by Doom_Gaming
Changed "Homing rounds > Auto target" for more clarity
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really hope you peeps plan on removing the negative stat or improving on Gun10, because it's beyond annoying to have a negative on an Intrinsic that's so expensive.
I invested in it on accident due to a hitch that occurred while I was spamming click+space to add into Engineering, and it made me select Gunnery without realizing it...

Also, I really hope you reconsider the cooldown on boosting as a pilot or add an intrinsic that bypasses it, because the cooldown really ruins the fun and evasive playstyle that I've had since release.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pilot 10 is underpowered, a short range blink with a comparatively long CD. CD should be reduced 25-35%. But if buffed, this is the ONLY half decent Lvl 10 Intrinsic that comes close to warranting the cost.

Engineer 10 is way underpowered in light of crew, nautilus, smaller ship and removal of small breaches. Not an end tree type of ability. Replace with something better, many possibilities which I won't list because almost certain this will never be buffed given DE's track record on RJ.

Gunner 10... thank god I stuck on lvl 9 based on what Im hearing. Whole thing should be scrapped and redone. Many possibilities, but again...

Tactical 10? Very niche for end tree power. 

Command 9? 3 minutes? LOL.

Engineer and Gunner 10 both need COMPLETE overhaul, other trees need buffs including something extra for Tactics.

Edited by Buttaface
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

with Electrical Hazard disable Tactical Menu and with that we already have Crewmates

i think Engineer's R10 Remotely Repair become useless now

instead, with actual "Rework" i think Remotely Crafting would be a better idea

for example

in situation such as "i need Forward Artillery ammo, critically." but im just a dude going solo i have to teleport to the back of the ship

and when i came back, enemy's crewship already regain their health

but with Remote Crafting i can craft and finished of enemy's crewship instantly one after another

(guessing my example pretty dumb but i know you get the point of it)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a few suggestions one of which I made back when railjack released.

Please have the tactical avionics default to 1,2,3 so we do not have to mouse over click. If we can have the battle ones default to 1,2,3 when in the pilot seat, you can repurpose 1,2,3 when in the tactical menu so as to smooth out use and speed up the game play. 

Gunner 10 is a travesty! How about the ability to fire the dome from the pilot seat, or maybe even remotely. I would even prefer the ability to change crosshairs or something.

Energy instead of flux was a bad idea, because it results in only using certain frames, or builds when playing railjack, instead of ones you may enjoy that have low energy pools.

Crew members if set to pilot avoid facing crew ships? why?

Crew members if set to gunner will not shoot, and destroy pop up radiators even if you park the railjack in front of them. Please stop making me run all the way back out to destroy them, when a gunner should be able to do so. (Gunner 10 Idea let me remote kill them with the guns myself)

The ventral turret does not need an exit railjack directly below, as there is an exit directly in front of the ventral turret.

Some mods, and part bonuses are now pointless. I can get a few resources when solo make dome charges until I have 8(without any mod bonuses) and use them through a few missions, with never having to touch the forge. Some Zetki parts offered an alternative play style before, now 2 of them are no longer a viable option because of changes. This is removing the very little build diversity that Railljack offered prior.

Void hole lacks suction now. Munitions vortex can barely damage something directly on it, and doesn't travel enough anymore. 

Eventually people will figure out that if you only use mods that boost turrets, you can use phoenix for boosted travel resulting in even less build diversity because your space brick can kill everything in the veil near instantly without tether, munitions vortex, or any of the other previous meta builds.

I feel like making Railjack gameplay less engaging in an effort to get people that did not want to engage with Railjack game play to engage with Railjack was an epic blunder.

As someone with a crewmember fetish, I would love for base stats to also be visible for each crewmember, seeing as how they also seem to be somewhat random and can vary a good deal.  That way people will be able to know that said crewmember you are thinking of using as a defense crew member will reach mid 4k health with 5 endurance rather then the average mid 3k range, with out having to do the math real fast to extrapolate the base health every time they look at a crew member, and then figure the bonus for any missing endurance points added after purchase. I am curious are there some other base stats we do not know about since I have a few rank 5 gunners one of which is an ace compared to a couple of the others, or are maybe certain factions better inherently at some roles than others?

 

Edited by Nichivo
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no feedback thread for the new mission types.
So i just going to put it here since it seems the broadest.

It's quite depressing starting the new railjack experience, seeing that the majority of nodes are now corpus (already developed a seething anger towards their crewship shields). and then see that there's so much of those damn "railjack defense"(More like the 2nd worst defense tile after that uranus interception tile that is still a defense map even after a proper def tile was added) and orphix missions (seriously how do you even complete those in solo? I thought i just needed to break one and then i could leave and never return).

The volatile modes are also kind of weird.... so we're supposed to run their reactors as Cys preferred temperature WHY exactly? Seems to me like overloading it and leaving like we always do is quicker, more effective and way less bothersome.

Also it would be nice to have a SINGLE space-combat-only mission type in the space combat game mode <_< everything requires us to go and board stations and what not which is most of the time VERY tedious in solo or uncooperative groups

Edited by Shaderox
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry if i miss something, but for Rank 9 Gunnery - [Flush Heat Sinks] was said use reload to instant cool weapons in 0.5s, For X-box controller (Play on PC) (X) mean to reload weapon, but in Railjack (X) mean to dismount form pilot seat. I try to change dismount to other free botton (D-pad : down) but it still not work, Also try all other botton it's not working also, Am i miss somthing?

 

Edited by LumilSilvermoon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn thats hell lot of bug

Doors wont open at the objective, player can tp back to ship by using chase camera and then the entire mission stuck etc.

those bug always occur at the end of the mission which is frustrating... around 4 times this occur to me at the end of the mission... this is really waste of time...

Lich is too weak compare to crew who can hold weapon given by the player, the only usage of lich is defend the ship but they are not as effective as a regular crew... Also lich won't even revive downed crew which is quite trash. my lich had an ability to tp away, whenever someone board my ship, my lich will fire two harmless round and tp away, useless af...

Two secondary objective before the main objective is too long and boring, especially for the hacking one is annoying af, i have to keep running around to hit drone and dodge the pulse

I really do hope crew can control the forward artillery,

and AI pilot can help u to do the mission objective and keep enemy crewship in sight for me to use the forward artillery, a command function can do the job maybe. When i solo the grinner railjack mission, i still have to go back to the ship for 4 times to shoot the radiator...

 

 

Edited by Jacco426
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gunnery 10 needs a full rethink. It's not even just the heat penalty, I do not want control of my weapons taken from me. I can see the targeting assist reticles just fine and I know how to walk fire to a target. Improved artillery? Post-slingshotting buffs? Remote use of unmanned guns as pilot? Even just something forgettable would be fine so that I don't have to leave Gunnery at 9 indefinitely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...