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Update 29.10.0: Corpus Missions & Points of Interest Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]Danielle
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2 hours ago, sorcer3r said:

Remember tennocon where you could fire at the capital ship while some players were still inside the capital ship? And not to mention the other possibilities for the railjack to support the players on the capital ship that was shown at the tennocon then...)

This cannot be stressed enough.

Forcing the entire squad into the regular mission portion is really lame. I get what is going on behind the scenes here (dumping RJ assets to populate regular mission stuff) but it is very immersion-breaking and not that fun.

Railjack should interact with the regular mission portions in some way.

Also, I don't think anyone suggested that we have point-for-point regular missions added into Railjack. When people talk about content islands they are more talking about content not interacting with one another.

What you guys have done here is put an isolated regular mission within a different mission. They still don't interact with one another while they are playing out. 

Solutions:

Exterminate missions should have indoor exterminate and RJ exterminate happening simutaneously. Completion of both segments completes the mission. We have fully manned crews available now. They are able to kill fighters and such while we are on foot.

Defense missions should benefit from RJ interaction. RJ shooting strategic points on the corpus ship should activate environmental effects such as explosions, power surges etc. that stop the waves. Waves should continue until RJ stops them or the regular wave duration is met. 

Volatile missions would greatly benefit from RJ interaction speeding up the degradation of the reactor and slowing/stopping the "you lose if this timer reaches 0" thing that can happen from the corpus engineers and/or overheated reactor.

 

Additionally... one big gripe I have for all of these missions. Where is the bridge and commander who is talking smack to us? Going to the bridge to kill the commander should be a regular thing. Shooting the bridge with the RJ to kill the commander should/could also be a thing.

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mJRluY.png

Sorry, i don't want to offend you or somehow hurt you, but i not feel this is a new mission at all...
It's not even necessary to make the defense on Railjack endless, especially if it's more difficult, but when i see the same thing, and the Railjack is just for show...
I may be expecting too much, but why give me the hope to see it, and give the same thing that is already in the game? It would be better if there were no such defenses. 

BUT A LOT OTHER FOR RAILJACK WHAT YOU DID I VERY LIKE...

I like to:
- Just fly on Railjack, spirally revolves around its axis... such flow...
- Tasting the fire of / using such cool turrets
- Using frontier artillery vs special enemy or have my mate, who could do this for me - tasty teamwork!
- Pilot must fly to flank/back of Corpus Crewship for player, who on Frontier Artillery, could shoot not in Shield of enemy ship - nice! Another teamwork thing!
- Setting/trying another battle/tactical mods, how they will be in fly/fight.
- Just look on background of planets, learn my enemies (scan/drops/what they do...).
- This new Command Intrinsic and anything what linked with this - WOW, my Crew firing from turrets! They effectively repair the ship! I EVEN CAN FASHION MY CREW! BY MY WEAPONS! BY MY COSMETICS!! MAN!!! *i have no words, just bursts of joy ...*
- Many other things, even if something doesn't work well right now - i'm sure you will do it cooler.

... and LOVE YOU DE! (not just for this, i'll try to love you, even if you will do something bad x) ).
Even if there some little things, that i don't like by my vision/taste - i could accept them patiently.

This is just my feedback, what you requested from us and i fairly said what i doesn't like THE MOST.

And i have big hope the coming Void Storms wont be the same foot-missions, on which you uses Railjack just for came in it...

Some old things for new Railjack is good for new players to learn, but these new players wouldn't like to see something new, when they go to Railjack as to different gamemode and they probably could say: so many interesting mechanics, HOW BIG AND VARIED THIS GAME.

When new player asking what is Avionics - we said him - this is just like the mods for Railjack and he have no problems for learn it. But visualization is very important, by this we feel the some new fresh breath. The feeling, when i installing avionics on my Railjack-schematic-background (it even changes depends of what skins of railjack i used!), was more enjoyable than bored mod system, which i see already 9k+ hours... x)
I don't say i want rollback to Avionics, mods - it's okay. Just want to say, in my opinion, you DE, better don't use the way "makes things looks similar for better to learn" as your main further direction for development.
If you worry something technically similar and someone blame you for this - try to extend it (by Grid System the Avionics was already a bit not the same as mods - may be some other little mechanics could expand it more and it would be enough). For example, Arcanes and mods also technically looks similar, even some mods works like arcanes - they have trigger condition and action time + even condition of activated action (i don't like to use some mods for this :B ), but they looks different and have another equipping/ranking system, and this is already nice.

Railjack damage types to similar types - well, this i think is okay, they really was doing almost the same and not obvious what (only this reason why for new player is harder to learn).

Thanks for your work!

Edited by Toonya
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Orphix in the Veil is way too difficult.

The mission starts with a level 54 Orphix (equivalent of the 16th Orphix in Orphix Venom). PKdII7w.png

Above is a graph of how an Orphix' effective health scales. The green section indicates the level and health of Orphixes in Orphix Venom's Endurance mission and the red indicates the level and health of Orphixes in the Veil Proxima, assuming level scaling continues at the same pacing as Orphix Venom.

What this graph shows, is that Orphixes in the Veil are much tougher than the ones from Orphix Venom. Even getting a single C drop would have you kill an Orphix that is nearly as tough as the final one in Orphix Venom (level 90 vs level 110).

Besides this, players also have a lot less time to kill an Orphix: 50 seconds instead of 90. This combined means players have to more than double their damage output in order to get the same amount of rotations as Orphix Venom.

On top of this, regular Sentient enemies can also output a lot of damage, which Necramechs can not easily take. Mechs are limited in their ways to reduce incoming damage (Storm Shroud & Shield Maiden) and are equally limited in ways to restore their Health (Meathook & Necramech Repair). This essentially means that surviving with a Necramech feels impossible after around 15 Orphixes. Once a player's Mech does die, it will go on cooldown and they will be unable to deal any meaningful damage to Orphixes during that time. This will have a snowballing effect since the players are then behind on the already tight schedule, which makes it incredibly difficult to catch up.

 

These are my thoughts on Orphix, anyway. I hope they're useful in any way 😀

Edited by di0n08O8
Slight clarification
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the new missions don't feel like RAILJACK missions
too much normal gameplay, not enough railjack gameplay

railjack should be railjack
right now the railjack feels more like just a way to get to objectives than the focus itself

that being said skirmish was too MUCH railjack
if you could smoosh together new and old for a happy middle ground we'd be in business

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I wish I could start by saying some aspect was amazingly better, but nothing really jumped out to me in that way. and I can! The change to makes the derelicts consistently spawn on particular proxima's, and those derelicts always have a hackable station within them is great! That change removes 2 of the 3 RNG needed for a weapon drop, which is a great quality of life improvement!

I am also getting used to the mission types and never ending spawns of corpus fighters, and I seem to be adjusting to it.

Here are some old things and some new things that I'm experiencing:

  • After a mission is complete, it's still very difficult to leave a crew. If the crew doesn't go to Dry Dock, and I use Abort Mission, then I seem to lose the affinity gained by my Plexus. I do keep my Intrinsics gains, which I really appreciate. I'm not 100% certain if I keep the items gained.
    • I would like for a way to leave a crew/railjack without losing anything gained from the missions that were completed.
    • I would also like the ability to leave a crew/railjack that doesn't feel like I'm doing something wrong.
  • I loved the Orphix event, and the new mission type does keep a lot of that feeling.
    • However, the time between the Orphix spawns has been reduced and it makes it really difficult to keep going. It doesn't matter if I'm running it with a squad or in solo mode, keeping up with the Orphix spawn rate seems insurmountable. Could the time between spawns be increased please?
    • I would also like to see the free Necramechs that are in the map to not be placed near the Orphix spawn points. During the original Orphix event, there are times where you need to jump out into Operator mode, and if you accidently jump back into one of the free Necramechs (unleveled, no mods) in the middle of a fight, it causes frustration and a significant delay to completing the objective.
  • Corpus Defense missions. Please take this with a grain of salt; because I've never really been a big fan of Defense missions. But, the "Pyramid map" for Corpus Defense is my least liked map in the game. Inside of Railjack or outside of it, I find the very large size of the map to create:
    • A slow game that frequently takes over a minute to complete a single round
    • Reduces the effectiveness of AoE warframe abilities to clear the map
    • Can cause enemies to get "stuck" on their way to the objective
    • (sigh ... it's just a really bad map)

 

Edited by impoveris
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3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

.

if I could upvote you twice I would, pretty much what I thought,  orphix + railjack they made it take longer with the RJ intro, then re-tuned it to be harder/faster than the even version which wasn't a guarantied win, then scaled the rewards that players actually want from somewhere around 10 to maybe a 1 ?

just why ?

 

  

32 minutes ago, di0n08O8 said:

Above is a graph

 


this too! I dropped many hours into the orphix event, it was hard enough! just tripped the hardness and nerfed the rewards ?

Edited by _Anise_
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I love Railjack, seeing new stuff is always a delight. The same applied for the Corpus missions.

However the part where the crew has to move out for the main objective and isn't allowed to come back until they failed or succeed the mission is quite different from the freedom we had from the Skirmish mode.

I can understand why it would be a good idea, for optimization, and fairness for the whole squad.
It seems like a good idea to have the whole crew participate in a Defense or Orphix mission since these are endless, not only does the difficulty ramp up but the squad could end up spending a much longer time in Defense or Orphix rather than roaming with the ship with no enemies to fight. So I understand that part, I would prefer 100% freedom like in skirmish but I understand.

Yet, what about Volatile and Exterminate corpus missions ? The time it takes to finish a Volatile or Exterminate mission is short enough to allow players to roam the map with their ship for ice-mines and other optional mission. There's this and of course, they are not Endless. Once they're done, they're done.

If there's no performance issue holding us back, I would love to get that Skirmish freedom back at least for Exterminate and Volatile. Going in and out of my ship. Teleporting to a fallen crewmate with tactical R10 while I was just getting the optional mission in the ice-mine 13km away from them, giving them a hand if they need or back to my ship if they would like to finish on their own.

Players would be able to do what they prefer, and the crew wouldn't ignore their Railjack ship. At the moment if you rushed to the main objective for a Corpus mission, you can enter the enemy ship (Main objective area) even if you're surrounded by +15 enemies and under attack.
You can simply ignore the cries of Cephalon Cy as he keep repeating how the ship needs repairing and enter the main objective area.
If you enter the main objective area, Cy will even repair the Hull breach himself as you can see in this part of the video.
 

Révélation

 



Since it doesn't happen with all areas, only the main objective one of Corpus Missions, and never happened in Skirmish it's hard to explain why or how the ship avoid all damages on its own, it's an inconsistency. It's not like in Skirmish where we'd have to hide our ship behind an asteroid or use Void cloak, here we can simply just let our ship in the open under fire and it'll be totally fine. It is.... Weird right ?

These few points and bugs aside, I really enjoy the update. I'm still hoping for something close to the Railjack from Tennocons or something like Scarlet Spear op-link again.

Edited by STUVash
added example video
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Another oversight going on is when you have all these wonderful backdrops for the Clan Dojo to choose from: 

Gy4KfmZ.jpg

And yet you fail to be able to go back to this default.  Let alone the ability to research it to add it back to the rotation:

idiE1kA.jpg

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With the current setup, going into a corpus RJ mission and then simply not boarding the ship to do the objective results in a Destiny Loot Cave like situation where 4 corpus fighters will respawn indefinitely. With 2 AI gunners it's possible to afk farm the fighter drops. As much as I like the thought of being able to watch a stream while my crew does what I paid them to do, the drops are too easy to get.unknown.png

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Leading up to entering the Capital Ships in higher Proxima regions is one step forward, five steps back when it comes to Solo Railjack.

 

We have Command now allowing our boats not to just sit unattended (+1) but we can have as many as five deployment tasks to cover before we're even allowed to progress, which Command's crew cannot assist with in any way (compared to multiplayer squads which can still divide and conquer).

A Capital can require two point-of-interest nodes - with mini-missions themselves - and three Crewships to be taken care of. One player doing all that - yes, okay, my AI-manned ship survived while I was busy, but that was still almost 20 minutes before I could even begin the 'real' mission task (which might be Defence or Orphix, in which case you might be looking to stay for extra rotations as well!)

Strongly consider making it always Security Nodes and then either forced POI clear or forced crewships.

Also, Crewship reactors need to become vulnerable much faster after finishing their mini-objective. Waiting for them to slowly rise and de-shield is too long.

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So basically you took corpus railjack and pretty much stripped it of everything that was railjack and made it fun and turned it into core warframe with extra steps. Once youre inside a stenchion theres NO difference to normal warframe. Its SO dumb and boring. Honestly, what were you thinking?! You COULD have made this fun and made actual space combat defense missions with Railjack. That wouldve been fun. One guy could do support with the archwing, another steals a crewship for extra firepower, another keeps the team supplied with the forge and does maintenance. All this doesnt matter anymore now! The actual space combat part of these corpus Railjoke missions make up maybe 5% of the overall mission. The rest is BORING core warframe.

EVERY corpus RJ mission is "Play actual railjack for 1-2 minutes, then do what youve already done for thousands of hours: normal warframe"

Make actual space combat the focus of this sad excuse.

So essentially youve made everything that made Railjack fun and stand out irrelevant or "too short" and instead you gave us core warframe with extra steps.

*slow clap*

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3 hours ago, Toonya said:

BUT A LOT OTHER FOR RAILJACK WHAT YOU DID I VERY LIKE...

....

Thanks for your work!

I posted earlier with mostly criticism but I would also like to agree with having a lot of good feelings in other areas. Lots to appreciate, big issues aside.

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Just something short and to the point. At this time the ASH parts are listed as dropping in RJ  defense missions, in C-rotation at 10%. If this is truly not a mistake then I can say with certainty: "Ash is now the frame that has the worst possible grind to obtain" There is no deeper reason, no history and no connection between Ash and how to farm him at the moment. Please at least make it painless for new players to get him.

 

Love the way you shrunk the space inside the Railjack. Much more efficient now. The new tilesets for the "hidden areas" are really amazing looking and also very fun to bullet-hop through. Shame all they're currently used for is as scenery between an entrance and a hacking console. The missions inside the big ships could definitely be shorter timewise. It really feels like I'm spending more time running to and from the objectives than is necessary.(Especially considering I could just teleport out with my handy dandy omni-tool) I really really really hope they are just filler for the moment though. We are doing those missions all the time outside of railjack, they really shouldn't be in here.

 

The new game mode could use a dash more chaos to it, remember the bullet slowing bubble one of the Moas can make? Put that on a engineer from time to time. Hide a few breakable pipelines that add heat to the system so that people using explosives or punchthrough need to be carefull or be really on point with the vent destructions. Very nice interesting mode overall though and fun, just too predictable and linear in my opinion.

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Doesn't require all squad members for the main objective

they don't require they whole squad, and some people want to stay and defend the railjack or get resources instead of being forced in the airlock. It would make things faster if we could do multiple objectives at once like how old grinner railjack was.

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There shouldn't be a part of a railjack mission where the railjack is unusable.  Making missions where it's unusable for the majority of the time is baffling.

It would be great if there was a back-and-forth — let us send two people in to do defense or sabotage while the other two do railjack objectives, and switch people out at will via archwing flight or omni teleport.  It would make the whole "use the tactical screen to help your friends out" actually worthwhile.

Even better would be to have us do exterminate or mobile defense type missions with the railjack or archwings.  That's what I thought we'd be getting when railjack first came out, and it seems we've actually gotten further away from those great ideas.

Edited by 2ndPersonPlural
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I want to have a change for electrical hazards. Currently they disable the tactical map completely but doing this disables remote repair. Disabling the tactical map also makes you unable to switch the roles of your crew until it is either repaired or you leave your ship. It's kinda silly I can give my crew orders while I'm on archwing but not while actually on the railjack with them.

The change to electrical hazards I'd propose is to have it leave the tactical map enabled but disable everything except showing hazards and allowing crew control. I'd also want an exception to allow the tactical mod fire suppresion. This would make remote repair work for people who have earned it and make it so you could actually control your crew while being on the ship with them, while still keeping the spirit of the hazard the same.

Even if it stays mostly the same as it is now, I'd still appreciate it being changed so I can at least control my crew without leaving my ship.

Edited by CinderSail
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vor 17 Stunden schrieb Waizard13:

Something else I noted is I cannot chose to host the railjack mission. Even if I leave from the drydock I get dropped at someones else ship. It was so simple, pick the mission from navigation to crew, or depart from dock to host, why I cannot host now?

Have the same issue. Whenever I launch a mission from my Railjack in the Drydock, I end up in someone elses Railjack. So to have my own Railjack in a mission I have to set the matchmaking options to "Friends Only" or "Solo" which makes matchmaking more like an obstacle.

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The RJ Defense missions are by far the worst part of this update. Defense missions are bad enough on their own but now you have added other things you must do before doing the boring defense mission. To top it off, you are using the WORST defense tileset in the entire game. I do everything I can to do avoid that tileset in non-RJ content. The enemies are constantly getting stuck. They take forever to get to the defense objective and they frequently "take cover" far away from the objective. And of course, there is no clear line of sight from the objective to the rest of the map and so most warframe's abilities are gimped and it slows down an already slow mission to a crawl. That tileset is horrible, was designed opposite of what most players want (fast clears), and presumably was used in no small part so that certain staff members could force their vision of the game on the player base.  We've seen this same mentality in update after update and it never ends well.

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- Cache reward "B" is too vague. I have no idea how to unlock this and apparently neither does anyone else. I have no idea if i've gotten B rotation.
 

Missions should be changed to include railjack. Split the team up. 
Just regarding Defense/exterminate:
"ground team" does what they normally do.
- Add something like "you have 30 seconds to clear these enemies otherwise they'll take off/spawn fighters for your railjack team."/ "Destroy this object otherwise it'l fire missiles at the railjack" ETC.
Railjack should have mission objectives that STOP reinforcements. Stop fighters from reaching the ship you're team mates are in. Destroy a crew ship before the timer. etcet
Railjack is supposed to be hard, its a team fight/struggle. 

Railjack team will also have alot more difficult time in doing their objectives with just 2 people (lets say) as keeping alive the ship and clearing on board attacks can be difficult. Which is why there's multible ways to "buff" or make it easier whilst the allies are away:

-Tactical is a great way to help out ground team and I love it. Ground team doesnt need anymore help than this.
- you already have the ability to teleport TO AN ALLY (which is amazing) aswell as teleport back to your ship
- Command is great. NPC's need a buff in their "brain" and to learn how railjack works. Command 10 can legit be be able to bring ANOTHER crew member so you can have 5 people (4 players + 1 NPC) or (1 player and 4 NPC's) on your ship. Sounds awesome, but the thing is this will not be OP in the slightest.  It would work helping railjack team do better. 

Maybe this is where Kuva Liches can play a part? Railjack team can have a friendly Kuva Lich ship that just helps until destroyed. 

Thanks for everything you've done. Visually Railjack is incredible and some of the ideas are great. I've had fun with it ~  



 

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Well, since you are asking for mission/enemy critique...

Fighters: they dont usually live long enough for me to really get a good feel for how they interact with us, so I'll have to try and set up a situation where I can watch them without them being vaporized.

Crewships: Uh... Not quite as intuitive as the shielded grineer crewships. I like the orbiting shield-drone, but the security nodes don't seem to stand out as much as they should. I have heard the ones in the veil have either multiple shield-drones or are rotating them too fast, so I guess I'll have to check that out. (I have not had a chance to test if they can shield-gate the Tunguska yet.)

Missions: Why does everyone have to go in? I hated this, but couldn't understand why until someone mentioned we have this exact thing in grineer galleon/asteroid bases (albeit as an assassinate) without the need to drag the whole crew in. What was wrong with that style? I love the tile design of the PoI's outside the main objective, and the new tiles being used with the corpus ship tileset. Just... please don't leave things like this. I would even be ok with leaving some missions like this just so the work that went into it didn't just evaporate (Although the defense ones should probably go), but I would rather have the crew split up to deal with the main ground objective and space objectives.

Edited by ShadeOhNiner
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having played some more I got to say that it isn't bad it just needs tweaks, like most groups I ram seem to want todo the first few waves of defense/orphix and when the green thing pops up telling them to extract they want out!

an idea maybe to tune the railkjack version of warframe rewards to that rather than the endless modes the rest of the game is designed for

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On 2021-03-20 at 2:53 AM, Juliuszeks said:

Missions seem quite like workaround instead of accual railjack missions, we dont even get enough affinity to level up our plexus in reasonable time, most of missions are focused on ignoring railjack component which is bad, we dont fight hordes of ships etc we just do normal missions but with the usage of exclusive railjack taxi. Crewmembers killing units should grant us railjack exp.

Make missions simple yet involving, simple ideas to make it interesting yet involving RJ:

- Running away from fleet while destroying some roadblocks.

- Basic extermination. (make crewships destroyable with normal guns but while aiming at certain points for it to make it more dynamic and skill dependend or allow using front cannon on secondary hit as a pilot)

- the most basic survival game but including hordes of ships trying to destroy our railjack.(ammount of enemies must be comparable to the flood we get in disruptions)

- scavenge where you need to gather resources around while beeing attacked, stealing them from corpus mostly.

- basic capture where you need to disable crewship and steal it then move it to certain point. this way we get our basic missions translated into railjack but beeing interesting and involving.

These are the types of missions we want, when we are on the mission outside of railjack but still its railjack mission at least allow us to get kuva lich with us for help, thats so anticlimatic to do normal missions in railjack without any involvement from our crew or our railjack except "shoot enemy weakpoint" or "destroy crewship"(which needs to be boarded mostly...)

These are mostly good ideas. The new concept seems to be Railjack Mission + Normal mission. It takes longer

-Railjack already had (has?) basic extermination where we fly around and kill enemies in space, at least in the Grineer sections, I haven't looked at any of those sections since the new patch.

-Some kind of survival mode using the railjack would be good. It might need a different name to differentiate it from the indoor survival: something like 'swarm' or 'horde'.

-A capture mode would be really good, so would a scavenge mode. It definitely fits with Corpus since they value their assets.

- Based on the above, I'm picturing a mode like 'Stock Exchange' where the Corpus value certain items in space more than others, but as you collect more of one item it drops in value so they go after other items instead. It sounds a bit like The Index but more like a treasure hunt in a Railjack. I might take this suggestion into its own thread.

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