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Railjack just feels like a taxi now


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Shame me for it but godamn i love  the rj changes playing as a one man army from the  shadows Commanding a  ship with a crew that Actualy do things its ameizing when i get off i just tell one of the crew to pilot while one is on  gunnery all the time and  a lich is a walking GUARDD DOG.

Using a Nechramer With Excal Umbra  and Specter is just NUTS i love itXD

 

But thats just me it seems. we will see how long my  love for the changes staying but as a   lone wolf i love to have actual crew on my ship not  some  random mr 6 guy(sry this is no mr shaming  u can be mr 20 and still wont listen when ur in a rj party and i honestly hated that soo much  in public rj stopped doing it  very fast too).

 

Command  is a godsend sorry not sorry.

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Honestly I've played over 5k hours of "more warframe" at this point. Railjack was a great step away from doing everything exactly the same and the mode is dead for me now. I got anxiety playing because I was that bored. The defense map I did was huge and awful, and the boredom was only slightly mitigated by being able to use my voidrig (a questionable mode in itself.) I don't need more exterminates to do or defenses or anything in some corpus ship or grineer galleon. Railjack was something I came back to regularly even after I was going through burn out phases with the rest of the game. Something new to enjoy.

 

F

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The community is divided and some people asked for this. 

The real question is: Divided in how many parts?

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36 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

The real question is: Divided in how many parts?

Many, many parts. There are still people that want warframes movement system gone or revised because "you're moving too fast". Those people think they're right and other people think they're wrong. 

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb More-L:

Being forced to do a generic 5 wave defence to complete a railjack mission is not fun.

Railjack connects ordinary missions seamlessly (at least in the Corpus area). That's all about it. Instead of going back to the Orbiter and (re-)starting a new mission you can head over more or less directly to your next mission (and meanwhile play with some space enemies if you prefer that kind of mission starting over the old school Orbiter variant). Nothing wrong with that imho.

I like it. Not for every day, but I can (and will) enjoy it from time to time.

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For sure, I was lukewarm on normal RJ gameplay but it was better than it being a vessel to do a normal defense mission, not to mention a normal defense mission on the worst tile for defense. 

At least it was it's own thing for gameplay before whether the gameplay was mediocre or not, now it's just 'do normal mission'. 

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Perhaps they should call it "railjack taxi" rather than "railjack rework"... to me it feels a lot more like "railjack shelved" if I'm being utterly brutal about it.

The new missions feel like you spend about a literal second on your railjack and then literally about 10 minutes doing a "forced" ground mission. The original balance of the railjack space vs ground in the initial railjack missions seemed perfectly fine.

Oh nevermind the fact whilst you are doing your ground portion, it simply doesn't matter anymore that your railjack gets pounded to a pulp!

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Look, players complained about how Railjack was disconnected from the rest of the game... and this is in spite of the fact that some of the Grineer railjack missions did involve some ground mission work. Now they tried to make Railjack more like what players seemed to want: More like the original game. I mean, seriously... what do you want out of Railjack? Seeing the way the Railjack discussion evolve since its release, I'm not surprised by how it plays now. Isn't this in league with what players wanted? Something more Warframe-like rather than space captain-like?

At the very least, I think they could use some more ideas of how ground and space missions can work together. Grineer Railjack missions were too much of a space fighter game for me. This current iteration may be removing too much from Railjack to keep to the original Warframe game.

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I partially disagree,

The Grineer parts are still mostly unchanged,

And even in corpus there are still actions to perform in railjack , it is unfortunate that they are so inconsequential in most cases (except the few where you need to destroy some crewships)

I wish we could destroy enough crewships and fighters (maybe another optional objective) to stop them from spawning like in grineer missions and get some bonus rewards (or just some peace and quite).

But i do agree that the "Railjack" part of railjack missions is kinda just a taxi.
 

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I find this whole situation kind of funny; when I came back to the game after a long break, so many people were complaining 'the game is called WARFRAME, not RAILJACK, why do I have to fly spaceship??? Why is it so disconnected to the rest of the game? It has nothing to do with core gameplay!'

I wonder where those people are now. 

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On 2021-03-20 at 1:14 AM, SaberSentinel said:

content island back

it is still an island, that now has little areas of regular play. until RJ is part of the normal star chart it will always be a content island.

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I like the direction but I do wish the non rj parts were optional. People should do them for the rewards not because they have to.

 

I want to fly along in my rj and get a distress message asking for defense of a cryopod or intercept priority communication and I can choose to do it or ignore it. If the rewards are worth people will do it.

Edited by Skaleek
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I always wanted warframe to have its own cool spaceship battle mode. You know, just in case someone need a little break from killing things with warframes, which what we all been doing since 2013.

But apparently I'm the only one who want it.

I guess I'll just have to kill my hopes and dreams, buy star wars squadrons instead.

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I think there's a few problems myself but i think this is also somewhat of an inevitable consequence of the situation.

 

The thing is there where plenty of people complaining about how old railjack failed to connect well with the existing warframe stuff. And they where right. The problem was the ground parts where allways done after the space parts and where not especially engaging. They where just mini assassinate or sabotage missions. And people only run those on the regular starmap for specific rewards or for fissures. No one just randomly does those for the fun of it because they're pretty boring and involve just rushing through as fast as possibble. Exterminate and endless are the only times anyone actually stopped to fight the enemies for the bulk of the mission.

 

Both of those are what needed adressing. It needed/needs to be practical and desirable for the people who want to do the warframe parts to go do them before the railjack has wiped out the space stuff, (just make it so we don;t get railjack objectives and enemies keep spawning till they're done, also remove the shoot stuff from the railjack after a hack aspect), and it needs to be practical for the people who want to focus on the railjack stuff to do that, (The idea of having to take out reinforcements to help your tenno inside is good. Also if no one goes inside let us deploy Clem/Syndicate People/Liches/whatever and they complete on a timer that goes up every time we let a reinforcement reach them, if a tenno goes in they get some cannot be permanently downed people following and helping a la what happens with clem in his weekly). 

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I dont think this is the right direction for Railjack, the actual concept its the opposite it was in the time it was created: its not co-op because now npc's do what you want, and its not space themed because now we have Defense, Orphix missions with a bit of space in the beggining. Im starting to miss the old Railjack, and I wasnt even its biggest fan...

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On 2021-03-20 at 8:03 AM, ebrl said:

Old railjack secondary objectives, which someone could advance/complete while the railjack crew dealt with the space fighting.

You can still do that, the difference is that not all missions are the same now, so it doesnt work in each of them since they have different mission parameters, like it should be. And no matter which mission you do now, there is an actual side mission to do, which some people can do when the rest focus on the main objective. Those side missions arent hidden anymore either, so it makes it even easier to clear them out while others do the rest.

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Why did I research, build, equip, grind, and optimize for a Railjack when I can just press "Venus, Defence" from the first menu of the Navigation screen? I want to use my my spaceship in the spaceship missions; not do the same boring missions I grew tired of in the first few hours of the game. The honorable exception is of course Orphix which I am fairly certain is some kind of punishment.

Railjack is now a jar of jelly-beans without any of the nice flavours.

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These are what railjack missions SHOULD be, DE already got the right direction which makes railjack not a content island and full seamless integration between railjack and ground activities, how did they manage to f%#* up the game mode? Im sure most players will be satisfied if these missions are present is the game and not random ground missions being put into railjack missions. I am surprised to see that no people ever mentioned these demos

 

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2 hours ago, DavidDaGreat said:

These are what railjack missions SHOULD be, DE already got the right direction which makes railjack not a content island and full seamless integration between railjack and ground activities, how did they manage to f%#* up the game mode? Im sure most players will be satisfied if these missions are present is the game and not random ground missions being put into railjack missions. I am surprised to see that no people ever mentioned these demos

 

So lets break these down.

In the 2018 Demo, 1/4 of it is a loading screen. No, seriously, as fancy as that whole setpiece is, it's a loading screen. People really hype it up, but the Railjack coming down to the Vallis is just a transition from one mission into a different mission. Which would be rad, but it's not gameplay, and it doesn't change how you interact with either game mode. It takes a minute of flying very slowly shooting rocks before literally anything happens. There's a further two minutes of shooting enemies in space (no objectives, no crewships, just small fighters). Then there's a boarding party, which the team fights off and some of the others go to repair fires and breaches (note-multiple things to repair at once was removed, because people did not find it fun). Then the pilot has to physically get off the helm in order to use a battle avionic, which isn't popular in terms of the forward artillery right now, which is a much rarer circumstance. There is a further minute of flying over to the ship. Rebecca then opens a friendship door (We all know how much people love friendship doors) for Megan. Or, well, first she turns on a turret and forces Megan to stand there in a room with nothing to do for a full 20 seconds. Meg then walks over to a doohickey, shoots the doohickey, and then leaves. The other players have been sitting there twiddling their thumbs for about two and a half minutes.

Now, here comes the good part. Rebb fires the cannon, but listen to the music? You hear how it's swelling up the score but Rebb fires it way too early?

Well, that's because she wasn't supposed to redirect power to the guns.  They talked about this on a devstream afterwads, if I recall correctly. Doing that caused the pre-planned musical sting for firing the artillery to be way off. In other words, Rebb just trolled the sound team. Now, consider what happens when you have a bad-faith player on the team who you're relying on to not just... switch off the guns, or the engines or the shields. Which they can do at any time.

In total, the 2018 demo consists of 1/4 loading, 1/2 slowly flying towards a ship in the distance at the speed of molasses and little else, and 1/4 gameplay which is frankly speaking, clumsy at best.

 

 

The 2019 demo is far more in-depth, so I'll truncate the first half. Most of it is discussing the systems which are mostly unchanged or had their changes discussed on Devstream, although the Dark Sector is literally just five minutes of flying around empty space and doing a loot dungeon. As for the actual Kuva Lich mission, it's a lot better than the '18 demo. After all, although there's a minute of flying around taking in the chatter, the space is way less empty. It's worth noting that the process of disabling the Crewship is simpler since they have a get-out-of-jail free stun, but it's not like it's hard to just aim the old-fashioned way. What is worth noting is that Rebb once again has nothing to do for this whole setpiece - in Railjack proper, the Pilot would still have objectives, fighters, and possibly other crewships to deal with. Four minutes into the lich mission, the Railjack is boarded, and it's worth noting that something of value is missing - the boarders place down what I assume are landmines. Granted, it's not much, but hey. After that, they blow up the Crewship, and they wait around to watch the fireworks - not an issue in this case, it is pretty and this is a demonstration.

And now - Squad Link. One of the big missing features. And something worth talking about, because people do bring these demos up an awful lot. Almost constantly, in fact. Steve himself calls out Squad Link as the game changer, and much like 2018's demo, I have a very simple question to ask: What do the players actually do? The ground team does a mobile defence, and the space team does... nothing. They're just waiting for ground team to do their mobile defence mission. After that, though, RJ's back on. 

And the actual Kuva Lich fight and... it's more of the same, but the reverse. Rebb is waiting for the generators to be destroyed so she can play. I wanted this analysis to end on a high note, but I just can't, it's the same as before. The Void storm is set dressing - incredibly cool set dressing, but it doesn't mean anything.

 

Most of these demos have, in all actuality, got less stuff than the current game, depending on how you define it. Corpus Proxima does at least have setpieces where standard Railjack gameplay is involved, with simultaneous play across multiple objectives, and tons of crewships, and aiming at the weak points on the obelisk. It's always the same setpiece, with minor alterations, which is upsetting, but it's there. The 2018 demo (which, weirdly, is way more hyped up) is nearly 3/4s nothingness punctuated by occasional bouts of minor action which would be torn apart had it actually been what was released. The 2019 demo is substantially more ambitious, and in some respects, does have more. It has Kuva Liches in it, it's got Squad Link in it - but ultimately, in terms of purely Railjack gameplay, it's honestly at best different, and arguably, less. DE seem to have trimmed the non-RJ stuff to make RJ itself better and have more things to do in it.

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17 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The community is divided and some people asked for this. 

IMO "the community" asked for gameplay like shown in tennocon. (takeoff fortuna ->)  Railjack support in space -> sabotage team inside capitalship.


What DE did was just copy&paste defense,exterminate and a new sabotage variation at the end of a short "railjack kill crewship" session....

Unfortunately it seems that this design mess cannot be fixed in just a hotfix because they did not work on any new gameplay for such railjack missions.

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