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Railjack just feels like a taxi now


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On 2021-03-20 at 6:26 AM, ReddyDisco said:

Devs can never win no matter what they do

They could try making the things they are good at. That might make them "win". Instead they made some horrid mess of a hundred unfinished game modes and for some reason some minor tweaking of one of the haphazardly slapped on game modes isn't making them "win".

Edited by Alucard291
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46 minutes ago, Alucard291 said:

They could try making the things they are good at. That might make them "win". Instead they made some horrid mess of a hundred unfinished game modes and for some reason some minor tweaking of one of the haphazardly slapped on game modes isn't making them "win".

Considering this has been going on for years, it isn't a win for the game and certainly not a win for gameplay, but it probably is a win for DEs investors. Too bad the game suffers for it.

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Just now, (PSN)Yggranya said:

Considering this has been going on for years, it isn't a win for the game and certainly not a win for gameplay, but it probably is a win for DEs investors. Too bad the game suffers for it.

Honestly given their dwindling player base I sincerely doubt its even a win for the investors either.

My guess is that the management knows that they are out at the next AGM and are simply doing the minimum to claim their paychecks.

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18 minutes ago, Alucard291 said:

Honestly given their dwindling player base I sincerely doubt its even a win for the investors either.

My guess is that the management knows that they are out at the next AGM and are simply doing the minimum to claim their paychecks.

Well, DE finally reaps what they sow, but i doubt they have anything to worry about for years to come, considering people still pay for this trash.

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On 2021-03-19 at 10:26 PM, SeRialPiXel said:

The thing that felt unique to railjack was the fact that everyone had his own role and you would have to manage those efficiently in order to complete the mission. All of that is gone now and railjack is literally nothing more than a taxi, where 10% of the mission is you going from point A to point B and 90% is you doing missions like we've always done in the regular star chart. What's the point?

Except no.

You played solo. Or people played solo. There literally wasn't any role just one. Just like now.

And the missions didn't change much Railjack always had the go here do that kind of game mode. Don't even lie about it. I was there from day one and got through every mission alone.

Now we just have more objectives. Nothing changed gameplay wise.

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9 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Except no.

You played solo. Or people played solo. There literally wasn't any role just one. Just like now.

And the missions didn't change much Railjack always had the go here do that kind of game mode. Don't even lie about it. I was there from day one and got through every mission alone.

Now we just have more objectives. Nothing changed gameplay wise.

How to do Gian Point 101: one guy pilots the ship, one guy is in charge of the forge to replenish flux and ammo, one uses the forward artillery to take down crewships, fourth guy can do whatever (you can send him to the anomaly/second objective so he can complete it alone while the others carry the main mission).

I have no idea what version of railjack you've been playing, but you definitely have a distorted view of it.

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12 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

How to do Gian Point 101: one guy pilots the ship, one guy is in charge of the forge to replenish flux and ammo, one uses the forward artillery to take down crewships, fourth guy can do whatever (you can send him to the anomaly/second objective so he can complete it alone while the others carry the main mission).

I have no idea what version of railjack you've been playing, but you definitely have a distorted view of it.

Gian point 101 equip Munition Vortex, wreck S#&$ move on. If you need 4 ppl for that... Well I'm not gonna say anything here.

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On 2021-03-19 at 9:36 PM, ZeroX4 said:

Just wanted to add we already (with archwing but still - nothing prevents it to have these as RJ missions)
- Mobie defense
- Assault (rush)
- Interception
- Capture (saturn - pandora pursuit)
 

I like what they've done with Railjack (awful bugs aside) but they definitely need to incorporate more things Railjack into....well... Railjack. Adding more mission types involving the actual ship like above is a good idea. Hell, maybe even throw in rescue/kavor and have them come on board or something.

Edited by Numerikuu
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16 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

I like what they've done with Railjack (awful bugs aside) but they definitely need to incorporate more things Railjack into....well... Railjack. Adding more mission types involving the actual ship like above is a good idea. Hell, maybe even throw in rescue/kavor and have them come on board or something.

No matter what you like what i like or what someone else like
Problem is that we get RAILJACK update which makes RJ only means to move from point A to point B

Its like calling uranus missions Archwing missions (i mean the ones that start under water and you just swim to surface to never use AW again in it)

Adding insult to injury is the fact most mods i described would not be new content but just tweaked archwing content to RJ
And we didnt even get that

Thats why ppl are angry not because update was bad
I personally love crew members addition

In the end lets just be happy its playable
It could be worst

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Personally, I wouldn't even mind the whole "its just a ordinary boring defense/exterminate that takes longer setup to get to", if not everyone had to leave the ship to do it.
Like in the 2019 demo, while some away crew acomplishes an inner objective, the railjack crew can still use tactical abilities to support them. Hoping its just a technical limitation and not a design choice to have forced instance of all squad. The derelicts don't use it, the previous ground missions didn't, why should these?
Especially since with stamina gone railjack combat/movement potential got a lot more fun, yet we have less opportunity to use it in new missions...

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13 hours ago, fatpig84 said:

I wanted space battles like Eve Online

So you wanted another more farmed player to come and blow your Railjack up while you are trying to even get the smallest amount of resources for any progress?

That's kind of one of the only two images I have in my head when it comes to Eve, the other one is just spreadsheets.

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Grineer Missions arte still there So at least half of the missions still utilize the RJ. The corpus missions on the other hand are utter garbage. In most of these the RJ is actually nothing but a taxi. Only missions where you gotta destroy crewships utilize need the railjack to beat efficiently. You literally ignore any enemy in 90% of the missions. Dunno who thought this was a good idea but this person should get fired on the spot. 

And no, I dont want Gran Point back, that mission was only popular cuz the whole RJ system is fundamentally flawed and it was the fastest way to get your stuff maxed. 

What I want is spacebattles with sidemissions much like the grineer missions but better. Missions where you still have to fight in the railjack but you get rewarded if you do sidestuff like destroying a huge cruiser ( i like the new "weakpoints"). What I definetly dont want is being forced into corpus tileset defense. All of them are the worst. Just make all mission stuff optional with good rewards and make the main objective space dogfighting. Its not that difficult. 

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4 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Well I'm not gonna say anything here

Its a bit disingenuous. Sure some people farmed Gian Point - but they had their RJ fully equipped already so I don't see why they bothered but...) its not much different from standing in a side room pressing 4 every so often. The game is set up for farming, and its abusive of any form of fun gameplay. But that doesn;t mean the rest of us were playing it for the farmz, we liked it. It had that level of engagement, roles and co-op play. It was fun, and different from normal WF that we played it a fair old bit. A refresher between grinding for whatever we were currently grinding for.

The fact that many people wer eplaying Gian point doesn't automatically follow that they were farming, maybe they liked the pure RJ skirmish gameplay without the side objectives.

What next? Will DE scrap Hydron because it too is a very popular mission node? Should they scrap Saryn because "max modded press 4 wins"? You're not judging the old RJ fairly.

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vor 44 Minuten schrieb gbjbaanb:

Its a bit disingenuous. Sure some people farmed Gian Point - but they had their RJ fully equipped already so I don't see why they bothered but...) its not much different from standing in a side room pressing 4 every so often. The game is set up for farming, and its abusive of any form of fun gameplay. But that doesn;t mean the rest of us were playing it for the farmz, we liked it. It had that level of engagement, roles and co-op play. It was fun, and different from normal WF that we played it a fair old bit. A refresher between grinding for whatever we were currently grinding for.

The fact that many people wer eplaying Gian point doesn't automatically follow that they were farming, maybe they liked the pure RJ skirmish gameplay without the side objectives.

What next? Will DE scrap Hydron because it too is a very popular mission node? Should they scrap Saryn because "max modded press 4 wins"? You're not judging the old RJ fairly.

Fair point but the people who were thoroughly enjoying it were rather few. A few weeks prior to the patch even Gian Point was pretty much dead.It got more popular as the update was announced. It was rare to get a party of 4 prior to that. 
For most ppl it was a way to make easy money and exp. You could level a frame in 15 minutes by just standing around and refilling flux and artillery every few minutes. 

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8 minutes ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

Fair point but the people who were thoroughly enjoying it were rather few

Maybe so, compared to the majority playing the normal starchart. I have a feeling the update will remove even those players and the RJ missions will turn into farming locations for the parts and then never be touched again. (Like many of the standard starchart mission nodes). At least Gian Point had some people playing those nodes for fun alone.  I guess DE will find out the truth (or not) of that statement as they crunch the data - will the other Grineer missions gain players, or will they stay flat? Flat means players have left RJ behind, and after the rewards have been farmed in the corpus missions, I doubt anyone will be playing them either - except for the Orphix ones that have constantly farmable special rewards.

 

Oh, and if farming for affinity was such a problem - its easily fixed: reduce the affinity for warframes and weapons if you don't use them! So you'd gain intrinsics instead, and not gain affinity. Job done! (as it is, the current missions are affinity farms, my new Saryn is near top level after a few hours and I have solely just followed people around bullet-jumping and trying to keep up with the exterminate speedruns that corpus RJ missions now are)

Edited by gbjbaanb
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I got myself some sass, and I will now share my sass with you; fine people:

"What missions would you like Railjack to taxi you to next? Give your suggestions!"

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It feels like in their attempts to improve Railjack, DE have ended up bringing it to its natural conclusion, which is to minimize Railjack's presence in its own content. For all the hype and tremendous amounts of resources sunk into developing the mode, Railjack has never really succeeded at being much more than another gimmick, another ill-fitting feature lifted from some other game and shoved into Warframe for the sake of publicity and novelty. When we're being made to play lots of actual Railjack content, rather than the game's core content, the result is shallow, repetitive, and often frustrating gameplay, with many key mechanics being more tedious than engaging, e.g. the forge, overheating turrets, railjack components, etc. It also just felt very isolated from the rest of the game, so I'm not surprised that in trying to bring Railjack more in line with Warframe's core gameplay, the mode has reduced itself to little more than a taxi.

Personally, I don't actually think that's too bad a thing, because let's face it, Railjack was unpopular and pretty fatally flawed from the get-go. It is better that we get to play with the much richer systems of core Warframe than Diet Guns of Icarus, so at this point I think the real question is: what do we do with RJ? Do we even need it at all? Because when it comes to space travel and combat, we already have Archwing, and if they were boosted and/or the space maps were squished enough for travel to not be tedious, we'd get to have all of our space combat without the intermediary of a convoluted space bus. Railjack forcing players to stay put on the same spaceship, whose stats may be awful depending on the host, and then cooperate instead of being able to contribute organically to mission progress has never truly worked, and I don't think ever will. Eventually, it might be better for DE to bite the bullet, integrate our space and ground missions better, and cut RJ out of the equation entirely in the process.

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On 2021-03-19 at 9:26 PM, SeRialPiXel said:

everyone had his own role

You mean... The pilot, the two turret AFKers and the Archwing moron that flies on his/her own towards the Planet to see if they can land and stay there?

 

... There's not much difference now except, for example, Corpus RJ missions...

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1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

You mean... The pilot, the two turret AFKers and the Archwing moron that flies on his/her own towards the Planet to see if they can land and stay there?

 

... There's not much difference now except, for example, Corpus RJ missions...

 

If you didn't have someone on the forge and someone on the main gun previously missions where effectively impossible to complete in a time-frame that wasn't glacial. Now that isn;t really the case. of course this onyl applied to the old high level missions. Which was one part of old RJ's issue. Most missions didn't have enough to do to actually fall into that in the old system, and that was because most missions had to be built aroudn railjacks that had minimal gear, no avionics, and terrible guns.

 

It was the equivalent of building the majority of the regular starmap for people with sub level 10 frames with no mods and Mk1 weapons with no mods. Everything would care little about what weapon or frame you brought because it would assume you effectively didn't have either functioning different from any other frame or weapon due to lack of levels and mods. And as a result most of your kit would feel pointless.

 

 

Now let me be clear, the plexus change and turret buff was a huge improvement, Everyone having their own abilities and turrets that can really shred fighters means that even with a forward gunner, pilot, and forger the 4th player can still meaningfully contribute, for that matter you could have the forger jump on a turret and still be useful. You don't have the inherent design issue of one player having nothing meaningful to do. But the mission design needed updating as well. And thats where this overhaul fell short. Low level missions are still far too enemy light , (especially fighters with the hugely buffed kill power vs them teams have), and high level missions didn't have the issues of their ground vs space interaction being poor, (also the increased kill power is arguably making those a bit enemy light too now).

 

On top of all that the fact is archwings don't really work in RJ right now. Thats not RJ's fault. Thats archwings being bad. But it means until they get overhauled a huge piece of RJ's mechanic's just aren't present and accounted for.

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23小时前 , Cha0zb0rn 说:

Fair point but the people who were thoroughly enjoying it were rather few. A few weeks prior to the patch even Gian Point was pretty much dead.It got more popular as the update was announced. It was rare to get a party of 4 prior to that. 
For most ppl it was a way to make easy money and exp. You could level a frame in 15 minutes by just standing around and refilling flux and artillery every few minutes. 

Gian point was nowhere near dead in my region. I always get a full squad the moment I jump out of void drive. 

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Disgusting update.

 

Made my railjack totaly useless now. All I do is just to park it 10 clicks away from enemies and blink my archwing straight into objective area ignoring everything else. I would just skip this entire update if not that MR for command perk tree, and when it's done I'll never get back onto RJ missions. If I wanted to play bloody defense, which I hate the most of all game modes, I'd go play it on a normal star chart mission.

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On 2021-03-22 at 11:51 PM, Carl_Bar said:

 

If you didn't have someone on the forge and someone on the main gun previously missions where effectively impossible to complete in a time-frame that wasn't glacial. 

You're completely wrong here matey. With a proper rj build and a little knowledge you could do veil proxima missions solo under 15 minutes. blackholing/tethering fighters, 1 ordinance hit to disable shield on carriers + quick swap on tunguska to finish them off with a single shot. No need to touch foundry apart of restocking before the next mission. That's how I maxed my intrinsics, took me 3 evenings or so. The only players I found out enjoying this update were those, who failed to master the old railjack.

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On 2021-03-20 at 12:56 AM, SeRialPiXel said:

The thing that felt unique to railjack was the fact that everyone had his own role and you would have to manage those efficiently in order to complete the mission. All of that is gone now and railjack is literally nothing more than a taxi, where 10% of the mission is you going from point A to point B and 90% is you doing missions like we've always done in the regular star chart. What's the point?

completely agree the new direction of railjack is terrible. both content can be easily mixed together! there is no need for it to only be either space battle or only ground mission! they can easily mix both as bonus mission for more reward OR second objective! like you have to destroy enemy reinforcement and finish the ground objective OR if you destroy all enemy reinforcement you will receive more/better rewards.

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4 hours ago, Tehtus said:

You're completely wrong here matey. With a proper rj build and a little knowledge you could do veil proxima missions solo under 15 minutes. blackholing/tethering fighters, 1 ordinance hit to disable shield on carriers + quick swap on tunguska to finish them off with a single shot. No need to touch foundry apart of restocking before the next mission. That's how I maxed my intrinsics, took me 3 evenings or so. The only players I found out enjoying this update were those, who failed to master the old railjack.

 

Sorry but having played plenty of veil proxima in the old system what your saying really doesn't make sense. There maybe might have been a build with enough flux energy to take all the fighters without needing someone crafting more. But it wasn't typical. Same situation with the Dome charges. With the right avionic you could do it with just the starting 5, but it wasn't common.

 

And that all ignores the fact people rarely do one RJ and done. Having to take the time to do all your own forge crafting after missions still slows you down a lot even if you can avoid having to do it in mission because your on average going to need 2 forges worth of dome charges plus flux, plus munitions from time to time. Doing it mid mission you got to use the time fights are happening to let things cooldown.

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