ENIAK_Prime Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Holy... Now that I'm trying to finish up Saturn Proxima I can see what everyone is talking about. The AI crew is ABSOLUTELY AWFUL. Let's go through the checklist: ~ENGINEER~ This is a bad job, period. They fix on-board hazards, sure... but only if there aren't any enemies around because they have a habit of ignoring enemy boarding parties because dealing with THEM is a DEFENDER'S job and an Engineer isn't a Defender, now is it? So they try to ask the boarding party to politely step aside while they try to patch up this hull breach but wouldn't you know it, Grineer and Corpus just aren't all that cooperative, so they murder your engineer and your ship doesn't get fixed. But it could be worse, because they could be a DEFENDER. ~DEFENDER~ Once you get out of Venus Proxima, your crew, no matter what their Combat or Endurance stats or what guns you equip them with, are NOT STRONG ENOUGH to deal with boarding parties. They get killed easily, and if you're solo that means you often have to interrupt your away mission to come back and help them out, and the enemy LOVES to SPAM ramsleds when you're away. I had to abort Vand Cluster because my ONE free-roamer kept getting downed (I'll explain why I didn't assign more crew to help out in a minute but you probably already know), my ship wasn't getting fixed, Cy was telling me there was a countdown before mission failure and there was just no way this was going to happen. It almost seems like the AI crew were made weak on purpose to encourage you to play with other Tenno once you get out of Venus. If that's the case, though, then don't even bother with AI crew. You shouldn't have them at ALL if they're only meant for earlygame RailJack. Not. At. All. Command Intrinsic needs to be worthwhile at ALL LEVELS OF RAILJACK PLAY OR THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO GIVE IT ANY INTRINSICS COST WHATSOEVER. Since both of these jobs involve wandering the ship and protecting/maintaining it, I'd recommend combining them into a singular "Maintanence" job. Give them the following priority list from most urgent to least: Hull Breaches > Downed Allies > Repelling Invaders > Fires > Restocking ship supply (if this is ever added). If AI's are also made to be appropriately beefier for encounters this should fix ALL issues with the Maintanence Crew. ~GUNNER~ The Gunner is probably the only good job for Crew at the moment because their effectiveness is linked directly to how good your guns are so as long as you have some decent guns on your RailJack, they can do a perfectly bang-up job of clearing the skies of enemy fighter-craft, which is a very important job and why in spite of their flaws I'd still say they do a very good job. The only two flaws with Gunners is that they only bother with enemy vessels. That's it. If you're doing one of those missions where an away crew exposes radiators on a shipkiller platform or whatever and the RailJack crew needs to target and destroy them from the outside, the gunners don't care about that. It's not a fighter or a crewship, so they don't care. The other problem, however, is the biggest one of all. OFTEN, CREW MEMBERS GET STUCK ON THE GUNS, AND REFUSE TO GET OFF. This is a VERY big issue, especially if you NEED your crew to rally up and help push out a boarding party, or fix multiple hazards (but let's be real, they'd suck at the defense anyway so at the moment it's just better to quit the mission and come back with friends). A quick band-aid fix while you look for the real issue would be to give the player the ability to interact with a gun station even when it's occupied to essentially take it away from an NPC, kicking them out of it like we can currently do with the pilot. ~PILOT~ Finally let's talk about the Pilot. They... don't really do much. The absolute best you can say about them is that they keep the ship in motion so that your RailJack isn't just a sitting duck that absorbs all the enemy fire coming at it (so, it does increase the survival of the ship a little bit), but that is absolutely it. And, at first, I thought that was honestly all I'd need my pilot to DO. Just... keep the ship in motion so it can dodge fire while I'm away and not get blown up behind my back. And, to an extent, that's still fairly true. I don't personally demand very much of my AI pilot, but there are quite a few things they could do better. - First of all, when doing missions with the Ship Killer Platform, the Pilot needs to be programmed to prioritize hovering in safe-zones out of the gun's reach. I have been fortunate to not have this happen to me but I've seen a lot of people complain that the pilot likes to park right in the line of fire so let's NOT have that happen maybe? - If a player loads up onto the Forward Artillery or the Archwing Slingshot, they should get temporary control of the RailJack's heading so they can aim at a target, because Pilots do NOT help out with this at all. They do not care if you're in Forward Artillery and three CrewShips are behind you, they're busy chasing a butterfly in the opposite direction. - Pilots don't use boost or maneuvers at all, so the amount of enemy fire they manage to dodge by keeping the ship in motion is still relatively minimal. This could be better, but at least it's not THE WORST. I only have level 7 command so I haven't unlocked having my one Lich in the crew and the ability to take one of my crew with me on away-missions, but I haven't heard good things about the Lich Crewmate and if their performance defending my ship is anything to go by I'm probably better off on my own... This is NOT good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel_killer- Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Yeah, I would like the ability to have more fine control over commanding the pilots targets as well. Set targets in the objective list maybe, or be able to tell it to go towards the "loot dungeons". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalBalPrime Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 This! or you should be able to assign gunners on what guns/ artillery to control. glad that i'm not the only one who's not a fan of this new AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 9 hours ago, BalBalPrime said: This! or you should be able to assign gunners on what guns/ artillery to control. glad that i'm not the only one who's not a fan of this new AI. I wouldn't say I'm upset. I figured it wouldn't be perfect right out of the gate. So far, it's still EXTREMELY helpful for solo players to have someone babysitting the ship when they're away. But yeah definitely some improvements to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashExe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 DE could make it so that if a player is either in the forward artillery or archwing slingshot, they temporarily take over the ship steering if an AI is at the wheel. Some kind of priority system (or key bind/toggle) would have to be in place if two players enter both, but otherwise this could probably work. On the plus side DE wouldn't have to mess with upgrading the AI at all with this, they just have to turn it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 I think that if you have another player piloting the ship there's no need for the one in the artillery or the slingshot to take over. You can just VC or text chat your pilot buddy to point you at the target. It's part of why I like playing with my friend. I can always rely on him to point me at the crewship when I'm ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashExe Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, ENIAK_Prime said: I think that if you have another player piloting the ship there's no need for the one in the artillery or the slingshot to take over. You can just VC or text chat your pilot buddy to point you at the target. It's part of why I like playing with my friend. I can always rely on him to point me at the crewship when I'm ready to go. I think I understand what you're commenting on and I apologize for not being clear enough in my previous post: 4 hours ago, FlashExe said: ... Some kind of priority system (or key bind/toggle) would have to be in place if two players enter both, but otherwise this could probably work. ... When I said both, I meant an AI on the pilot seat, one player in the slingshot and another player in the artillery. The functionality of the artillery or slingshot taking over the steering would only occur when the pilot is an AI crew-mate. The question that remains is who would then steer: the player in the slingshot or the player on the artillery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazimon Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Except my pilot AI made the ship a sitting duck when I had to go outside to kill a captain. 😭 He just sat the ship there between a missile volley from a galley, aligned the ship to a far-off crewship and the gunner was shooting at an indestructible rock that the crewship was behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmsForPeace84 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 The easy way to reconcile who controls the ship (Pilot vs. Forward Artillery), if this proposal were implemented, would be: The Pilot station always controls the ship, unless that station is vacant AND a player is on the Forward Artillery station When the Pilot station is unoccupied, the Forward Artillery station controls steering and non-boost movement In addition to the aiming and firing of the big gun When both stations are occupied by players, Forward Artillery controls ONLY the aiming and firing of the big gun As normal - Wearing and using a headset is recommended if you want to direct a human Pilot to make an attack run If there is an AI crewmate on the Pilot station when a player enters the Forward Artillery station, that AI crewmate exits the Pilot station Entering foot patrol mode, same as if a player "relieved" them at the Pilot station Returning to the Pilot station when the player exits the Forward Artillery station Until/unless a player then occupies the Pilot station (same as normal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 10 hours ago, ZokuGojira said: The easy way to reconcile who controls the ship (Pilot vs. Forward Artillery), if this proposal were implemented, would be: The Pilot station always controls the ship, unless that station is vacant AND a player is on the Forward Artillery station When the Pilot station is unoccupied, the Forward Artillery station controls steering and non-boost movement In addition to the aiming and firing of the big gun When both stations are occupied by players, Forward Artillery controls ONLY the aiming and firing of the big gun As normal - Wearing and using a headset is recommended if you want to direct a human Pilot to make an attack run If there is an AI crewmate on the Pilot station when a player enters the Forward Artillery station, that AI crewmate exits the Pilot station Entering foot patrol mode, same as if a player "relieved" them at the Pilot station Returning to the Pilot station when the player exits the Forward Artillery station Until/unless a player then occupies the Pilot station (same as normal) Only change I'd make to this is make it also apply to the Slingshot, not just the Forward Artillery. I'd say if the Artillery is occupied by a fellow Tenno, the artillery can control the ship since they'll be pointing at an objective anyway, but if it's just the Pilot seat, then the pilot jumps off and Slingshot guy gets control temporarily. And if AI's are updated to be able to take Forward Artillery (which I don't know if they will, but still), then if a Tenno loads up on the slingshot they will treat the Forward Artillery AND the pilot seat as if it is occupied, or they'll hop out of it if they're already on. Alternatively modify the Slingshot so that it's a separate component of the ship that can rise up and swivel around like a turret so a Tenno inside it can aim it better (not full 3D swivel, just left and right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Update: I just got to Saturn Proxima and holy crap, I have VERY different thoughts about this. Completely edited OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podge Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, ENIAK_Prime said: Update: I just got to Saturn Proxima and holy crap, I have VERY different thoughts about this. Completely edited OP. i'm not having TOO much trouble with saturn proxima and the AI crew. i mean i'm basically having to do everything myself while they barely keep my ship afloat, and it's a pretty decent ship (i havent ventured into the veil yet, because i'm working my way up through the difficulty levels, so at the moment it's all sigma mk3 parts) but i agree that the AI crew is pretty garbage. Overall i think they really need to just be a lot smarter. with actual players, i can assume that they know what they're doing, and i'd like to be able to do the same with the AI crew. For example, when the ship gets boarded, the engineer might focus on killing enemies in their way rather than trying to rush through a crowd of guys with guns to put out a small fire, and then if theres nothing to fix, they might hop on a gun and help out. the pilot would know that when someone's on the big gun or in the slingshot, they should point the front end of the ship at an enemy crewship, and maybe use some maneuvers to dodge enemy fire, and maybe some of those fancy battle mods? and dont park the ship in the line of fire of any really big enemy guns. doesnt sound too hard. and as for the gunner, they really need to learn to shoot radiators and the security node whatevers on the corpus ships. i understand prioritizing fighters if the railjack is getting swarmed, but when the guns are just idle? why do i have to fly out of the enemy base to shoot one thing just so i can fly back in again 10 seconds later? I have nothing to say about defenders because as far as i can tell they're mostly useless unless the ship is being boarded, so i've rarely needed to assign the role to anyone. might as well just combine it with engineer for all i care. call them "Technician" or something. another thing, that i would quite like, is the ability to give different commands, like in guns of icarus online, so maybe add buttons to the tactics screen, to have them focus on defense (evasive maneuvers or distancing from the enemy, for the pilot while the gunner and engineer focus on repelling boarders), or repair (gunner focuses on targets that are aggro'd, helps fix/repel boarders if there arent any, engineer focuses on fixing stuff but will kill boarders in the way, pilot distances from enemy) , or attack (aggressive maneuvers, engineer gets on a gun) , or just do what the roles tell them. basically i want more control over the dummies. the ability to reassign roles mid mission is sort of like a rudimentary version of this but it needs to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethTheBean Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Shhh. Shhh. Don't listen to them, @[DE]Rebecca . My RV crew are GODS, and BURN AWAY THE CORRUPTION - DESTROY everything and everyone they touch. They do have a habit of being a hardcore carnivore eating the dead, wanting to board the liset and feed people to Helminth, and giggle when they kill. But, hey. They are the psychos of the post Old War universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 That is why void cloak still exists. Forge is rarely needed now since energy pads / zenurik does the work. Just void cloak when you leave the ship. Enemies will be non-the wiser while laser pointers light up the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJxt Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Engineer isn't bad at all. I was soloing Pluto proxima doing some mobile defense objective when my ship suffered from two catastrophic failures. Both times the engineer saved the mission. I've seen the engineer solo clear raiding parties but Defenders are better at it because they patrol the center while engineers patrol the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrl Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 If OP thinks having no crew is better than having an engineer that will fix everything from fires to major breaches for free + gunners that aimbot the hell out of everything that comes near the railjack (including ramsleds), that's a problem with OP, not with the crew. I mean, the AI is absolutely awful, like all AI in Warframe, but they'll keep your ship alive just fine while you go around doing the objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podge Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 hours ago, ebrl said: If OP thinks having no crew is better than having an engineer that will fix everything from fires to major breaches for free + gunners that aimbot the hell out of everything that comes near the railjack (including ramsleds), that's a problem with OP, not with the crew. I mean, the AI is absolutely awful, like all AI in Warframe, but they'll keep your ship alive just fine while you go around doing the objectives. honestly the fact that i have to basically solo the objectives is what bugs me. i would quite like for them to at least shoot the radiators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 On 2021-03-23 at 8:38 PM, ebrl said: If OP thinks having no crew is better than having an engineer that will fix everything from fires to major breaches for free + gunners that aimbot the hell out of everything that comes near the railjack (including ramsleds), that's a problem with OP, not with the crew. I mean, the AI is absolutely awful, like all AI in Warframe, but they'll keep your ship alive just fine while you go around doing the objectives. I never said I think no crew is better. It's like you didn't even read the post, I gave every position what credit they were due (especially the gunners for, as you say, aimbotting the hell out of everything). My problem is how flimsy they are to boarding parties, but I'm currently debating that maybe I just need to find some crew members with rank 5 combat and endurance before I get too hasty. How do people have a single AI crewmember solo-ing entire raid parties on PLUTO while MY goons can't handle them as a group on SATURN? Either someone is straight-up lying or those final points in combat and endurance really make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrl Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, ENIAK_Prime said: I never said I think no crew is better. On 2021-03-19 at 8:56 PM, ENIAK_Prime said: It almost seems like the AI crew were made weak on purpose to encourage you to play with other Tenno once you get out of Venus. If that's the case, though, then don't even bother with AI crew. You shouldn't have them at ALL if they're only meant for earlygame RailJack. Not. At. All. Get lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 27 minutes ago, ebrl said: Get lost. On 2021-03-19 at 6:56 PM, ENIAK_Prime said: --->If that's the case<--- No u. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichivo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Pilots are complete idiots, but the rest are semi useful, it's better to run 2 gunners one eng, and build your railjack for turret damage, with a couple zetki photors your gunner will instakill everything in the veil except the corpus crew ships. Did I mention they will kill grineer Crewships? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Nichivo said: Pilots are complete idiots, but the rest are semi useful, it's better to run 2 gunners one eng, and build your railjack for turret damage, with a couple zetki photors your gunner will instakill everything in the veil except the corpus crew ships. Did I mention they will kill grineer Crewships? LOL Yeah I like 'em. It just seems like as I go into the harder stuff they start to get more and more scrambled by boarding parties. They're useful for NOW but it's looking like that usefulness drops off (aside from the gunners still being insanely good at their job because, well, you just have to give them good guns). ... which is weird because I thought my gunners were so good at their job that the ramsleds can't even get to them, yet every time I come back to my ship from doing an away-mission in like... a grineer or corpus base there seems to just magically be a boarding party there and my crew is a mess... I half wonder if the game is programmed to just greet you with a magically-appearing boarding crew whenever you come back from a mission or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichivo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, ENIAK_Prime said: Yeah I like 'em. It just seems like as I go into the harder stuff they start to get more and more scrambled by boarding parties. They're useful for NOW but it's looking like that usefulness drops off (aside from the gunners still being insanely good at their job because, well, you just have to give them good guns). ... which is weird because I thought my gunners were so good at their job that the ramsleds can't even get to them, yet every time I come back to my ship from doing an away-mission in like... a grineer or corpus base there seems to just magically be a boarding party there and my crew is a mess... do you have the granum and the worm mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENIAK_Prime Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Just now, Nichivo said: do you have the granum and the worm mods? The... the what and the WHAT mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichivo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, ENIAK_Prime said: The... the what and the WHAT mods? They are the railjacks version of bane mods for turret damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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