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Can we all agree that the RJ update is terrible in any way possible?


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58 минут назад, Zimzala сказал:

I choose not to have the negative outlook on game changes. I choose not to have my outlook changed by people that simply feel they must find fault in the game. I choose to not have such an emotional attachment to the mechanics of a video game that has code not in my control.

So you chose to not attempt to affect the game development, and to never at least try to make it better. Good for you. Without any sarcasm - good for you. Imagine how much more fun would you have though if this update didn't have objectively garbage parts.

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I think the OP highlights several key problems with both the update and Railjack itself as a game mode:

22 hours ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

The railjack has barely any purpose in corpus missions as killing ships is no objective. This makes the RJ a very expensive taxi. There are other threads about that as well.

Because Railjack was designed from the start as its own siloed bit of gameplay, the more DE connects it to our core gameplay, the less important it becomes. Railjack is actively competing with core Warframe for play space, and given how the mode was a ghost town until just recently, that battle's clearly been lost a long time ago.

22 hours ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

-I hope that its a bug but not being able to host by decision is the worst. WHat am I farming RJ parts if I have to board RJs without hull and no damage most of the time? If singleplayers is for fun in a MMO than actual multiplayer something is wrong, very very wrong.

Railjack makes the fundamental mistake of punishing an entire team for one player's lack of personal progress, which may not even be any fault of their own if they're just getting started. Giving us a plexus was not enough; the Railjack itself and its functionality shouldn't have to depend on the host at all.

22 hours ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

-The playerbase is at its worst. no matter what corpus mission you play: 3 ppl jump out of the ship and fly around in their archwing, even if the mission is to destroy crewships. Seems the Gamemode is overrun by people who dont care at all. Just leeching free loot. A votekick system is badly needed. Or at least a pilot ability that lets him control other players. Often enough i dont want to teleport the whole team to the ship but single players as a single person doing a sideobjective is something i dont wanna disturb.

Another fatal flaw of Railjack is that it practically forces players to cooperate, whereas the rest of Warframe merely encourages us to. If a player leeches or just doesn't play optimally in a regular mission, they may slow the others down a little, but never by too much. By contrast, a single player in Railjack not pulling their weight makes the whole mission feel much more tedious, especially if it means the rest have to take on additional work manning the forge, the repairs, the turrets, the away mission, and so on.

22 hours ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

-The rewards: 2 mods that are rediculous. Impact is a bad dmg type? Np, just make it proc slash! great idea! and the weapons? Aside from the ignis wraith its crap. They seem just to be too lazy to make good new weapons so they put stuff in thats currently unobtainable other ways. doesnt matter that 2/3 of them arent good. Oh and nautilus? Robotic pets have worked so well in the past.....and it cant even use deconstructor soooooo.....

Not a problem with Railjack this time, but yeah, our damage system is a joke, and this update's two band-aid mods confirm it. Internal Bleeding and Hemorrhage are both implicit admissions that Impact status is worthless, because clearly the only way to make it do anything is to make it apply a different IPS status proc (Oh, and there's no melee version, because these mods seemingly aim to band-aid not only Impact status, but also the current gun-melee imbalance as well). Damage 3.0 did not meaningfully improve Warframe's damage systems, and it shows.

22 hours ago, Cha0zb0rn said:

-the release: Its the worst release in years. I've seen cyberpunk on the PS4 and even that was more playable even on release. Sadly Warframe players are so used to low quality releases by now that that kinda stuff doesnt even warrant anything. And how can a company be so irresponsible to release such a mess on a friday when its so obvious that further hotfixes are needed and needed badly? I dont care for minor bugs, those are common on releasedays. But having to restart the game after every 3rd mission because the game freezes or is unresponsive is unacceptable. And on top of that: All people say is "well, DE is like that, we are used to it". I for sure wont spend money on this game for a good while. And I can only encourage other to do so as well. Money seems to be the only way those guys care about. Thats proven by the fact that you need to forma your RJ now. All of this was just to have an excuse to monetize something they previously havent. 

I would probably not call this the worst release in years, not when the Old Blood and original Railjack updates launched not all that long ago, but I can agree that this update has released with some glaring bugs and issues that should've been addressed long before launch. I also agree that DE have never really held the technical competence of their releases to a high standard, and the mentality is clearly to release things first and then plug the holes later (if the devs even get around to it at all). While I am grateful that DE clearly did try to meaningfully improve Railjack here (as much as Railjack can be meaningfully improved, I guess), there are still some basic problems with their delivery pipeline and quality standards that really should have no place in a game that's gotten as big as theirs. We're long past the early growth stages, and Warframe has no real excuse for its current lack of polish other than years of accumulated technical and design debt. They should tackle both, and ideally not create more fires in the process of putting out others.

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I find it amazing people still think Railjack "forces" people to cooperate, when the devs themselves said from the very start, that railjack would be Co op.

But now with the command intrinsic, you no longer have to worry about "forced" things. You now have the OPTION to either go with friends, a premade squad, or your own NPCs, so now no one is "forcing" you to cooperate.

But the again, Railjack was soloable since before the update...

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Its buggy, railjack is more boring than i could have ever imagined.

DE just clearly does not want to focus on the actual warframe gameplay at any cost. Clearly they do not realize that it is literally the only thing that makes this game great.

We play the game despite all the other crap.

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10 hours ago, AngryBAsian said:

While I understand your frustration, that's a horrible mentality to have. Most people complaining about the game on the forum here have tangible reason for complaining. This post is not unreasonable to a degree where we need to be shouting gtfo at his/her face. 

Every game, even if they are in a very common genre, have a unique feel/system to them that makes it hard to leave. Which is why people don't leave at first sight of disappointment from the game. People usually complain about a game because they like the game and there are no other games quite like it. Their opinion might be different from yours but in the end they are just trying to express their opinion in hopes that game will be better than it is currently. 

Also people need to stop making stfu it's free argument. It's dumb. Free or not, players are essentially customers of DE and have rights to voice their complaints as long as it's not completely unreasonable. Whether DE listen to those complaints or not is DE's choice. The players don't have to bend over to every DE's demands/mistakes just because DE marketed Warframe as a free game.

Yeah  I've spent well over  $ 3000   nothing free about this game.    And DE trade off of good will.   Because you don't have to send.   Which means they need to make you want to send. 

Which means good content and good updates. .

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8 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Missions with only kill x fighter and x crewship were removed. There are skirmish missions but they include an on foot section.

Skirmish missions still feature mostly ship combat compared to the Corpus proxima missions though. 

Besides, DE wanted to avoid another Gian Point incident which ended up being the only node everyone played to grind Intrinsics. Not gonna lie, I did the same as well and it wasn't healthy for it to remain.

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17 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

So you chose to not attempt to affect the game development, and to never at least try to make it better. Good for you. Without any sarcasm - good for you. Imagine how much more fun would you have though if this update didn't have objectively garbage parts.

So binary. The world is shades of grey/gray, not black and white only.

There are plenty of ways to create positive feedback that encourages (game) development and growth that do not include insulting the developers or claiming their work is terrible, etc. while claiming ones subjective POVs are objective fact.

I have plenty of fun in my gaming time and I have more of it because I don't choose to see everything as something that must be changed.

WF and games in general bring me plenty of fun, even when they have bugs or designs that set off other peoples pet-peeves.

The idea that I could as a single player/consumer change the course of the games code base to any degree is delusional thinking, IMO.

I really do have a deep level of pity for people who cannot stop their brains from focusing on perceived faults in a video game to the degree they cannot enjoy the game.

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Did seriously someone said Rj forces coop?

We have crews now. Soloing is easier than ever. Wtf?

Also I completely agree with Zimzala. Imo those who think that their toxic, negative behavior is helpful, need to see a doctor. Or at least try to think a bit like a normal human.

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18 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

this update didn't have objectively garbage parts.

Oddly enough, the "garbage" parts of any game, not just warframe, are the ones that provide the most fun often times tho. Sure, they have to be fixed, but nothing stop us from having some dumb fun with them until they get fixed, poke fun at the devs for having such an spaghetti code in a 7 year old game, and have the devs admit their screw up in a fun way.

Is a game in the end, and games are meant to provide fun, even from the development side, not to be some type of homework that must be turned in perfectly or face the wrath of the players.

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4 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Oddly enough, the "garbage" parts of any game, not just warframe, are the ones that provide the most fun often times tho. Sure, they have to be fixed, but nothing stop us from having some dumb fun with them until they get fixed, poke fun at the devs for having such an spaghetti code in a 7 year old game, and have the devs admit their screw up in a fun way.

Is a game in the end, and games are meant to provide fun, even from the development side, not to be some type of homework that must be turned in perfectly or face the wrath of the players.

This is some calm, rational, reasonable thinking right here.

Who let you on the Internet?!?!?!

It's a Video Game for happy-fun-time-entertainment.

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13 минут назад, Yakhul сказал:

Oddly enough, the "garbage" parts of any game, not just warframe, are the ones that provide the most fun often times tho. Sure, they have to be fixed, but nothing stop us from having some dumb fun with them until they get fixed, poke fun at the devs for having such an spaghetti code in a 7 year old game, and have the devs admit their screw up in a fun way.

Is a game in the end, and games are meant to provide fun, even from the development side, not to be some type of homework that must be turned in perfectly or face the wrath of the players.

Oh, I had massive amount of fun with all the bugs at RJ release. Tigris prime - the best archwing sniper rifle. RIP.

But this update isn't about bugs. You know that broken record about "Rj isn't what was shown at tennocon?" What was show at tennocon was awesome. And it has been literal years now.

I was among those people in "just wait for it guys" camp. I believed initial RJ to be a beta-test, or a proof of concept if you will. Something to iron out the kinks and polish the core gameplay before moving on to all the fun stuff spaceship combat has to offer.

And now I got this abortion of an update. The most insulting part is that it's not even different from Grineer rj. The only difference of "on foot" missions is that they lock down the RJ completely. For me it's now perfectly clear that DE has either no idea or no desire to realize all the promise RJ holds. This painfully lacks creative vision. Which for me personally, is a worrying sign. The "creative vision" is what kept me playing Warframe through its S#&$tiest days. I strongly believed that DE, while often failing, is still driven by desire to make something cool. And that things get better over time. Like how openworlds progressively improved the formula over their releases.

This update completely kills that belief of mine. There is nothing cool about it. Down to the basic design level, there was not even a possibility of something cool in "let's take what's already there and shut RJ down while you're in". For the first time since what, 2014, I can say that this update is #*!%ing lazy. And I'm not sure what to stick around for anymore.

Edited by Serafim_94
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2 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

This update completely kills that belief of mine. There is nothing cool about it. Down to the basic design level, there was not even a possibility of something cool in "let's take what's already there and shut RJ down while you're in". For the first time since what, 2014, I can say that this update is #*!%ing lazy. And I'm not sure what to stick around for anymore.

That sounds exactly like someone in Couple's Therapy looking for a reason to sign the divorce papers, TBH.

You don't like the new game mode. OK.

It's still just a Video Game, why act like it's Stockholm syndrome?

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Только что, Zimzala сказал:

That sounds exactly like someone in Couple's Therapy looking for a reason to sign the divorce papers, TBH.

You don't like the new game mode. OK.

It's still just a Video Game, why act like it's Stockholm syndrome?

Well, do keep this within the context of "it's just a videogame". My life isn't going to be ruined over it. Still, it's a videogame I enjoy, and there's nothing else like it on the market. I just tried to formulate my thoughts here.

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1 minute ago, Serafim_94 said:

Well, do keep this within the context of "it's just a videogame". My life isn't going to be ruined over it. Still, it's a videogame I enjoy, and there's nothing else like it on the market. I just tried to formulate my thoughts here.

So, you now know video game developers are just human and that hype in ones own mind can kill ones outlook.

*LEVEL UP* sounds.

Just remember 'here' is basically standing in the middle of Times Square and yelling, or like standing on the beach yelling at the waves. If yelling makes you feel better, OK, yell some more I guess.

Using words like 'abortion' to describe these things is simply not, IMO, a terribly rational or productive thing to do.

Thoughts can be expressed w/o Rage and Angst.

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For me it is a pepega update, even if corpus content doesn't look bad, it deviates a LOT from what I find enjoyable in the game. Corpus liches will be horrible to farm for if you have to constantly deal with those 30s timer, wait for ppl in sas things, hit those pipe nonsense. I don't like timers DE put them freaking everywhere since a good year, it's retarded.

But everybody has its vues. In an other hand the game seems more optimized in RJ as well, the few missions I was in felt like there was more quality. However I do not like the direction nor the gameplay elements but sadly it is a constant since a good year+, except very few things I've faced lots of disapointment.

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4 минуты назад, Zimzala сказал:

So, you now know video game developers are just human and that hype in ones own mind can kill ones outlook.

*LEVEL UP* sounds.

Just remember 'here' is basically standing in the middle of Times Square and yelling, or like standing on the beach yelling at the waves. If yelling makes you feel better, OK, yell some more I guess.

Using words like 'abortion' to describe these things is simply not, IMO, a terribly rational or productive thing to do.

Thoughts can be expressed w/o Rage and Angst.

Dude, what the #*!% do you want with me? For somebody who achieved the absolute nirvana of not caring about anything, you care an awful lot about random posts on game forum. I'll describe things like I want. If moderators find it inappropriate, they can always silently delete it like they usually do.

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On 2021-03-21 at 7:18 PM, Leqesai said:

Terrible is very dramatic, in my opinion.

It certainly feels unpolished (hey, this is DE here...) and not very well thought out but there is certainly some fun to be had with the new corpus tilesets. Having said that, the Grineer tilesets really feel more fun to me. 

 

For me the main issues are:

Tacked on ground segments feel tacked on. Stopping the RJ component to do regular missions is boring and uninspired.

Orphix is poorly balanced. Orphix spawn far too fast for it to be enjoyable in anything but a meta squad. Forcing full evac on this is also frustrating. Really easy for an individual to troll a whole group.

Defense uses the worst tileset in the game and is just as boring/lackluster as it always has been. It is the most uninteresting endless game mode.

Bugs are crazy right now. Lots of gamebreaking bugs made it through.

 

They aren't. The forums are just filled with toxicity, these days.

Dramatic? Are you kidding?

The game now is totally broken....why the forge now has repair hull when the railjack itself auto regenerates HP? Dont make any sense! And the flux energy? Now we need to use energize, hunter adrenaline, dispensary or use forge to renew energy? 

So many problems created by DE and now they will make it worse or forget all this troubles.....If they  revert all this mess i congratulate DE for recognize all this mistakes!

Edited by Vaml77
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2 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Dude, what the #*!% do you want with me? For somebody who achieved the absolute nirvana of not caring about anything, you care an awful lot about random posts on game forum. I'll describe things like I want. If moderators find it inappropriate, they can always silently delete it like they usually do.

Want? Nothing really, just having a discussion, offering my opinions as you have offered yours.

I learned what you have just learned a while back - hype = bad, wait for the release.

The posts I choose to address are often those of people I think are at risk of taking the game too seriously, I have had personal friends lose everything over doing that.

Like you, I will continue to post in my own way.

Part of that is calling out the OTT hyperbole of raging gamers that think they know better than everyone else, I find that personality type/outlook to be interesting to interact with as I am weird like that.

Just look at the outlook of this thread - 'everyone must hate this the same way' - it's a fascinating brain chemistry that thinks this way, IMO.

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1 minute ago, Vaml77 said:

is revert all this mess i congratulate DE for recognize all this mistakes!

Is this truly a cromulent statement? :P

 

The only real issue I've had is debating swapping for more energy efficient frames, but I generally run around just fine with my Wukong Prime. The interspaced ground missions tend to give enough mobs for energy refills, and otherwise, my crew handles the majority of shooting down fighters and putting out fires. The only mission type that feels out of balance is really the Orphix ones as they can overwhelm a solo player.

 

I would like to see a pure Survival style pew pew pew mission where we can just blast Corpus fighters/crewships with impunity. But I'm definitely enjoying the changes thus far, it's a lot less micromanagement required and feels like an actual crewed ship.

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5 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

The game now is totally broken

Game works just fine for me an thousands of other players.

You claiming a thing does not make it reality and is, in fact, OTT with llama-drama.

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2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Game works just fine for me an thousands of other players.

You claiming a thing does not make it reality and is, in fact, OTT with llama-drama.

Casual players...for sure. 

you cant see problems because probally never played railjack...if played was in a pub doing nothing.

For hardcore players who want challenges the game is so easy now. 

 

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17 hours ago, Yakhul said:

I find it amazing people still think Railjack "forces" people to cooperate, when the devs themselves said from the very start, that railjack would be Co op.

... which wasn't a good idea to begin with. Warframe in general is co-op, but it's not the kind of co-op that punishes players for not working tightly together, and that's one of the game's hidden strengths. I don't really understand why one would value having one's mission made that much more frustrating just because one player decided to go off hunting derelicts instead of completing the mission objective.

17 hours ago, Yakhul said:

But now with the command intrinsic, you no longer have to worry about "forced" things. You now have the OPTION to either go with friends, a premade squad, or your own NPCs, so now no one is "forcing" you to cooperate.

Ah yes, the Command Intrinsic, which requires you to play Railjack to progress... in order to be able to play Railjack solo... which would most benefit players just getting started with Railjack or having trouble finding other players. See the problem there?

17 hours ago, Yakhul said:

But the again, Railjack was soloable since before the update...

It was, if you had a beefed-up Railjack, which required advancing significantly through the mode, presumably by hitching onto other people's ships in the meantime. Without that, you could still potentially cover some ground, but enjoy taking forever to kill enemies and constantly repairing critical hull breaches.

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7 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Dramatic? Are you kidding?

The game now is totally broken....why the forge now has repair hull when the railjack itself auto regenerates HP? Dont make any sense! And the flux energy? Now we need to use energize, hunter adrenaline, dispensary or use forge to renew energy? 

So many problems created by DE and now they will make it worse or forget all this troubles.....If they  revert all this mess i congratulate DE for recognize all this mistakes!

It's almost like the forge was tedious and annoying. Oh boy can't wait to stop everything I'm doing to teleport to the other side of the RJ and ask my ship for more supplies.

RJ has been vastly improved with this update and isn't a tedious time sink to get your ship into a good place combat wise. I've only forma'd my Plexus once and I've been able to go through the maps without bashing my head into a wall in a mission because I had to run around and repair everything and then go back to the forge to request more revolite to finish repairing the ship so i can go back to the actual shooting and flying.

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8 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Casual players...for sure. 

you cant see problems because probally never played railjack...if played was in a pub doing nothing.

For hardcore players who want challenges the game is so easy now. 

So, if you are such a 'hardcore gamer', why are you unable to find a challenge?

That's on you, not WF.

I suggest playing the Stock Market if you really think you can take on a challenge.

Complaining like a child that got a smaller piece of cake at a birthday party is not how I choose to deport myself.

There are issues with any live service game, IME.

And? So what?

Ones inability to be able to see that they need to find other entertainment is not a failing of anyone other than the 'hardcore gamer' that will not face reality.

Who guaranteed you, personally, would have endless challenge in WF? Hm? Who?

Edited by Zimzala
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