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Putting Oberon behind Railjack is VERY new player unfriendly decision.


OwlOfJune

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11 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

what's that?

tier list is an imaginary level classification associated with one equipment, this classification is determining when the equipment is more domineering/powerful compared to another

WARFRAME 2021 TIER LIST -- FROM BEST TO WORSE! - YouTube

Some RPGs have the tierlist system on each equipments, the warframe game does not have tier lits for equipments, so some more experienced players make their ratings private, these lists are always changing depending on reworks, additions and nerfs

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The Ash change makes sense. 

Ash should be a later game frame. You shouldn't learn to aimbot with clones that early on, and invis is such cheese. 

But Oberon should be an early game frame. 

Although the truth is, it could be that they decided, based on their stats, that it almost didn't even matter. 

Even though Oberon is one of the easiest frames to acquire early game, he is one of the least played frames period. 

Now, I'm not suggesting we help that by making him harder to get, but it seems to be that playing the healer just isn't that appealing to newbies. Probably because the role of "healer" has never really properly existed in WF. Damage reducer yes, healer no, we don't have big enough health bars like in MMO's for a dedicated healer to even make much sense most of the time. 

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I was somewhat close to making a topic like this myself.

Not least, as someone whose first-crafted Frame was Oberon way back when (such an upgrade over Super Jump Excal lol),
it's such a shame to see newer players being deprived of this strong, versatile, and IMO very fun Frame.

Like, especially with him having been the earliest healer (why the Hek is Trinity on Pluto),
that's an archetype many may enjoy, but now that's locked away behind LOTS of grind / a paywall.

DE I am disappoint.

Mind, it furthermore doesn't help that I quite like Ash as well, so him not exactly being made easier to farm
(you know, the Ninja Frame, in this Ninjas Play Free game, BTW I am certainly not biased perish the thought)
is just another entry in the "DE why" list, you should've just let the Manics in Tyl Regor's boss fight also (at a lower rate) drop the parts, or something.

As was said, there are other Frames that probably would have fit better in (high level) Railjack content.
Harrow's Quest comes relatively late in terms of progression, plus the whole connection to the Void vs RJ Void Storms (eventually), kinda fits, no?

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It's not new player unfriendly.  It's player unfriendly.  Imagine having 400 copies of Oberon's parts sitting in your inventory because you stopped clearing them out a long time ago and now you start getting them as mission rewards from late game content.  It's a sad, pathetic joke.

There's been constant complaints about every warframe that gets stuck in mission/bounty drop tables because you only need 2 of that frame tops, yet the tables are diluted down with the parts instead of those parts being available from a vendor or some other means like a boss.  What does DE do?  Take one of the few frames that's easy for anyone to get, isn't diluting a drop table, and move it to late game content specifically to dilute drop tables.  

So many players will sit in here screaming about how great DE is because they listen to us.  Do they though?  They barely fixed any of the primary complaints about RJ, they just changed them into the same but slightly different complaints.  They do astoundingly stupid things like moving Oberon's drop location for absolutely no reason, despite the move completely flying in the face of an extremely common complaint.  They don't listen, that's only a common belief because people keep repeating it so people keep believing it.  The few times they do listen is either when their hand gets forced and they make snide, bitter comments about it on stream, or because it already lines up with what they were planning on doing anyway.

They're going to keep making and maintaining unbelievably awful drop tables until it starts hurting their wallet.

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5 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

As was said, there are other Frames that probably would have fit better in (high level) Railjack content.

None of the frames should be in any mission rewards outside of bosses and potentially Ivara and maybe Nidus.  Not in bounties, or missions.  It dilutes drop tables.  It makes farming several of them a massive pain for absolutely no reason.  It makes it so that farming the prime is often easier than farming the regular version, assuming DE's busted vaulting system hasn't taken that frame out of rotation considering there's over 20 frames vaulted right now.

The Granum Void is the perfect example of why you shouldn't do this.  That's supposed to be content, but there is zero reason to run GV after you've farmed the frame and weapons from it because that's the whole drop table.  The replayability on that is completely destroyed by an irrelevant drop table, which makes it dead content for anyone done with the farm and solo content for anyone that still needs to do the farm.  Considering the GV is total garbage to play, no one really cares.  But it takes the whole addition of treasurers and tokens and the hand statues and tosses it into the trash.  It could have been great content, but DE put the magic touch on all of it, from the mechanics to the drop tables and now it's something many refuse to even help with.

Frames in drop tables ruins already totally busted bounty tables.  "Oh man, I got some... tepawhatever nodules...  Great.  Oh, and we're following that up with a frame part for a frame I've already built twice and built the ephemera that requires one of its parts.  It's a 3,500 credit cache with added steps.  Wonderful."

It's horrible from a game design perspective if you're trying to design games that are fun.  It's probably great from DE's perspective because watering down drop tables means they get to extend grind.

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15 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I actually found the ash farm to be worse. Back then, you can try get a manic once every 5 minutes or less in T3 Defection in the Yursa Neptune node. Now, you have to do 20 defense for 10% chance for the part.

They either make his parts drop in Rotation A or move ash somewhere else or increase the drop chance.

There was actually a cheesy way to farm Ash. In the Disruption on Sedna, one of the negatives spawned the cat ladies and manics. Fail that node to keep the negative and don't activate the next node. Frequent manic spawns. Got like 2-3 sets of ash in like 30mins. 

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb Dhrekr:

Picking up Oberon pieces from the floor is "passively earning" and picking up credits from the floor to buy Nezha is NOT "passively earning"? What the hell is this

For the new player it is passively earned, thanks to the hard work of the veterans who came before them and build the clans. We put in the work so that they may profit.

Nope it does not count, because you must "actively" join a clan.

You can agree to the cons or not, why an easily farmable Frame is now behind an noobwall.

But i have a counterquestion for you:

What are the pros that the the guardian of the forest is now acquirable in space?

 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

Nope it does not count, because you must "actively" join a clan.

Wow. This thread clearly has attracted the attention of a load of unskilled nitpickers. Are you planning on boring me to death with trivialities?

1 hour ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

What are the pros that the the guardian of the forest is now acquirable in space?

None. Absolutely none. This move has all cons and no pros. You have profundly misread me if you think I said otherwise.

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb Dhrekr:

Wow. This thread clearly has attracted the attention of a load of unskilled nitpickers. Are you planning on boring me to death with trivialities?

None. Absolutely none. This move has all cons and no pros. You have profundly misread me if you think I said otherwise.

What should i say. I have taken an prime example from you. Who is nitpicking about how bad that change is. 

So if that change has no pros and only cons. Why even bother with it

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On 2021-03-22 at 6:37 AM, Dhrekr said:

Is this move an overall hinderance for newer players? Yes, sure, 100%. Will newer players survive regardless? Yes, sure, 100%. Is it at most a very minor hinderance? Yes, sure, 100%.  Have you offered any reason for DE not to do this, aside from saying "your decision to make one grind harder is going to make a grind harder"? No, not at all.

my main concern would be that oberon used to be a frame that enabled early progression into eidolon fights and thus operator amps for minimal investment. putting oberon into railjack changes the flow of progression somewhat; a harder grind isn't just a harder grind - difficulty (or lack thereof) is a subtle way of guiding the player towards or away from their next steps. thankfully, he isn't on the corpus side of railjack at least, which encourages you to get a necramech first. 

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2 hours ago, continue said:

a harder grind isn't just a harder grind - difficulty (or lack thereof) is a subtle way of guiding the player towards or away from their next steps

So... are you suggesting that DE's reason to do this was to subtly guite players towards Railjack with the promise of an Eidolon-capable frame?

I mean... could be, I guess. I can't prove you wrong on that.

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1 hour ago, Dhrekr said:

So... are you suggesting that DE's reason to do this was to subtly guite players towards Railjack with the promise of an Eidolon-capable frame?

I mean... could be, I guess. I can't prove you wrong on that.

i think it's an open question whether or not it was intentional. death of the author and all that. i was mostly just stating that it does do more than just increase the grind in that it changes the flow of progression. i'm still undecided as to whether that's a beneficial change or not. 

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1 hour ago, continue said:

i think it's an open question whether or not it was intentional. death of the author and all that. i was mostly just stating that it does do more than just increase the grind in that it changes the flow of progression. i'm still undecided as to whether that's a beneficial change or not. 

I can agree with that.

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On 2021-03-22 at 6:04 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

 

Although the truth is, it could be that they decided, based on their stats, that it almost didn't even matter. 

Even though Oberon is one of the easiest frames to acquire early game, he is one of the least played frames period. 

 

As much as I love my goat boy...this is sadly true. I am not sure this is really an issue at all.

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12 minutes ago, Void_Ocelot said:

As much as I love my goat boy...this is sadly true. I am not sure this is really an issue at all.

I think a lot of veterans keep thinking in terms of "why wouldn't a newbie want a healer isn't oberon an obvious choice?", when they forget that the role of healer just doesn't really exist properly in WF and never has. Yes, there are healing mechanics that can be useful at times, but without them coming with damage reduction or other defensive buffs, they simply aren't needed or even all that useful as part of an overall team strategy. Players don't have the giant health bars they do in a lot of MMO's. It's a different, more fast paced, horde based playstyle. 

Oberon has damage reduction now, but to a newbie it isn't going to be so obvious those synergies even exist, and even damage reduction has been reduced as a needed role with how easy it is to cheese perma invuln with a combination of the little guy + shield gating and dragon keys. 

People didn't use Bless Trin because it healed. They used her as meta because she gave 99% DR. 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2021-03-22 at 7:21 PM, Famecans said:

tier list is an imaginary level classification associated with one equipment, this classification is determining when the equipment is more domineering/powerful compared to another

WARFRAME 2021 TIER LIST -- FROM BEST TO WORSE! - YouTube

Some RPGs have the tierlist system on each equipments, the warframe game does not have tier lits for equipments, so some more experienced players make their ratings private, these lists are always changing depending on reworks, additions and nerfs

Tier lists are absolutely useless and based on subjective opinion.

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On 2021-05-13 at 9:09 PM, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Tier lists are absolutely useless and based on subjective opinion.

I'm talking about a tierlist/itemlevel based on analytical tools from the game itself.

big rpgs like Wow or Poe use the itemlevel system, any game with massive content needs to catalog itemlevels because the massive content becomes messy.

not only weapons but mods and resources also need itemlevel, this is a good factor for game progress and content expansion, itemlevel is the end of unfair nerfs.

:v

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34 minutes ago, Famecans said:

I'm talking about a tierlist/itemlevel based on analytical tools from the game itself.

big rpgs like Wow or Poe use the itemlevel system, any game with massive content needs to catalog itemlevels because the massive content becomes messy.

not only weapons but mods and resources also need itemlevel, this is a good factor for game progress and content expansion, itemlevel is the end of unfair nerfs.

:v

My point still stands. Tier lists are absolutely useless.

 

Furthermore, you added a link to a youtube video that proved much of what I just said.

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On 2021-03-22 at 1:50 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

They decided that "it's easier to get the Prime version" needed to be applied to Oberon, too, I guess. 

in all honesty getting oberon was silly-easy. Having his parts blocked by content gate or something is fine... but railjack? Reallly?

I guess DE still can't swallow hoarse and bitter truth - you can't make railjack popular, no matter how many redesigns and fix updates you do. Forcing players into railjack to create artifical popularity is just dirty move.

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