WHY does abolity duration affect ability energy drain? These two have nothing in common.

[Radu955]

Banshee Prime's sound quake (rank 30 frame without any mods equipped) drains 12 energy/s. If you equip transient fortitude (+55% ability str and -27.5 ability duration), the same ability will now drain 16.55 energy/s. WHY? Ability duration should have nothing to do with energy consumption. Anyone with a working brain knows that it makes no sense for ability duration to affect energy drain. Ability duration should only affect abilities that have a timer (volt's speed) and not those that consume energy over time after activation.

I know that #*!%ing with ability duration and energy drain affects the length of time that an energy consuming ability can be active for but that's what ability efficiency is for.

 

The point of this post is to highlight the irrational thinking of the devs.

[Kaotyke]

It effects how long you can keep it on.

So, if the duration is low: more drain. (Ability stays ON for less time)

Duration is high: less drain. (Ability stays ON for more time)

[iNemeq]

Firstly, have some manners friend.

Duration has everything to do with energy costs. Example with simple numbers to make it easier to understand:

Say you have an ability that costs 100 energy and lasts 10 seconds - you're effectively paying 10 energy for every 1 second of use from that ability. Now you add 100% more duration making it last 20 seconds, it still costs 100 energy. You are now effectively paying 5 energy per second of use.

Apply above exact same logic to channeled abilities.

[Veridian]

It makes complete sence.

If ability X should last N seconds with given energy, it should last longer with added duration.

[Corvid]

If it helps, the lowest energy drain per-second can be achieved with 175% efficiency (which is the cap for the stat) and 100% duration, and there are a few ways to achieve this ratio.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Ability duration affects the energy consumption rate of all channeled abilities. In addition to what Kayotyke already said, the design is there to prevent people modding fully into ability efficiency with no drawbacks. IMO that is quite rational.

[Radu955]

42 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

It effects how long you can keep it on.

So, if the duration is low: more drain. (Ability stays ON for less time)

Duration is high: less drain. (Ability stays ON for more time)

I already explained this in my question. If you want to increase or decrease the energy an ability consumes per second you use ability efficiency and if you want to increase or decrease the duration of an ability you use ability duration. In other words, why use ability duration to make an ability use more energy/s instead of using ability efficiency to do the same thing? Also, if ability duration affects energy/s consumption, what is the point of having ability efficiency?

[Radu955]

18 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Ability duration affects the energy consumption rate of all channeled abilities. In addition to what Kayotyke already said, the design is there to prevent people modding fully into ability efficiency with no drawbacks. IMO that is quite rational.

If you want to prevent people from having maxed ability efficiency without any drawbacks then add negative effects to mods that give ability efficiency, or have the negative effects activate only when a % of a certain effect (abil str, duration, range, etc) is reached.

[Radu955]

43 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

It makes complete sence.

If ability X should last N seconds with given energy, it should last longer with added duration.

We have ability efficiency for that.

[Tsukinoki]

4 minutes ago, Radu955 said:

why use ability duration to make an ability use more energy/s instead of using ability efficiency to do the same thing? Also, if ability duration affects energy/s consumption, what is the point of having ability efficiency?

There are two very simple reasons that DE stated when they made this change:
A) to make it so that duration isn't a complete dump-stat on frames with channeled abilities (Mainly those with exalted weapons) so that they had to keep in mind both efficiency and duration if they wanted to stay in a channeled ability 24/7.  Basically a balance and limiter which was sorely needed (though sadly didn't do enough)
B) because, as DE put it, it just "made sense" and it gives people another option to build their frames that allows for more ability usage instead of focusing on just one single ability.  After all now you don't have to 100% focus on just one ability while making the others utter crap (such as how before the change on Excalibur you had to choose between RB and EB of which will be good and which will be trash...now they both can be good)

[Radu955]

53 minutes ago, iNemeq said:

Firstly, have some manners friend.

Duration has everything to do with energy costs. Example with simple numbers to make it easier to understand:

Say you have an ability that costs 100 energy and lasts 10 seconds - you're effectively paying 10 energy for every 1 second of use from that ability. Now you add 100% more duration making it last 20 seconds, it still costs 100 energy. You are now effectively paying 5 energy per second of use.

Apply above exact same logic to channeled abilities.

Ability efficiency should be used for that, not ability duration.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

8 minutes ago, Radu955 said:

I already explained this in my question. If you want to increase or decrease the energy an ability consumes per second you use ability efficiency and if you want to increase or decrease the duration of an ability you use ability duration. In other words, why use ability duration to make an ability use more energy/s instead of using ability efficiency to do the same thing? Also, if ability duration affects energy/s consumption, what is the point of having ability efficiency?

They reason they developed duration and efficiency the way they did is that the first channeled abilities in the game originally existed on a set duration. Duration back then didn't affect the energy drain, thus players were able to reach infinite ability DURATION by nearly completely mitigating energy drain by modding into energy EFFICIENCY. Back then that was completely unheard of, because base durations back then were significantly shorter than nowadays to begin with, and introduced many afk builds into the game with abilities such as the (old) Ember's World on Fire.

Fleeting expertise always applied negative duration, so DE simply made that drawback apply for channeled abilities as well. You're being so extremely dense.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

It does make sense, it's increasing the duration of drain abilities by decreasing their energy drain. Efficiency reduces it more than duration of course

[Psianide73]

In b4 "efficiency not duration" again.

 

[iNemeq]

17 minutes ago, Radu955 said:

Ability efficiency should be used for that, not ability duration.

I don't think I can help you understand if you don't want to be informed. Duration by the very nature of the way it works already reduces the costs of using abilities that lasts longer than an instant. If you have to use a buff 5 times during a mission because of high duration instead of 10 times, you are spending half as much energy, basic math. To exclude some abilities from that but not others is silly.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

Efficiency affects how much energy something costs. Duration can have the same affect when a duration based ability that uses energy to stay active has it's duration lowered, it changes the energy cost so the DURATION of the ability has been lowered, do not confuse this with non-draining duration abilities. You are honestly being disrespectful to the forums and the devs(even tho they lost a bit of respect with those stupid band aid mods) which was not needed, stop being ignorant.

[AngryBAsian]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

(even tho they lost a bit of respect with those stupid band aid mods)

Not gonna lie, all the bugs and lame band aid solutions made me loose A LOT of respect

[Radu955]

9 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

There are two very simple reasons that DE stated when they made this change:
A) to make it so that duration isn't a complete dump-stat on frames with channeled abilities (Mainly those with exalted weapons) so that they had to keep in mind both efficiency and duration if they wanted to stay in a channeled ability 24/7.  Basically a balance and limiter which was sorely needed (though sadly didn't do enough)
B) because, as DE put it, it just "made sense" and it gives people another option to build their frames that allows for more ability usage instead of focusing on just one single ability.  After all now you don't have to 100% focus on just one ability while making the others utter crap (such as how before the change on Excalibur you had to choose between RB and EB of which will be good and which will be trash...now they both can be good)

The reason ability duration would be a dump-stat on a lot of frames that have channeled abilities is that those abilities are the strongest and most relevant in the warframe's kit.  In order to avoid that, they should have made a warframe's abilities synergetic (some are but they are few) instead of situational and the warframe itself should have been situational. That way players wouldn't focus on one ability and ignore the others like they do now.

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, Radu955 said:

Banshee Prime's sound quake (rank 30 frame without any mods equipped) drains 12 energy/s. If you equip transient fortitude (+55% ability str and -27.5 ability duration), the same ability will now drain 16.55 energy/s. WHY? Ability duration should have nothing to do with energy consumption. Anyone with a working brain knows that it makes no sense for ability duration to affect energy drain. Ability duration should only affect abilities that have a timer (volt's speed) and not those that consume energy over time after activation.

I know that #*!%ing with ability duration and energy drain affects the length of time that an energy consuming ability can be active for but that's what ability efficiency is for.

 

The point of this post is to highlight the irrational thinking of the devs.

I got exact same feeling as you over playing warframe for years

I could assume they wanted to avoid scenario where you shove everything into energy efficiency and ppl would cry that duration sux

But when i read what ppl who reply to your question wrote i start to wonder

Why there is Fleeting Expertise? 
It basically give you something and take it away at the same time

Its like riven with +100% status chance -100% status duration
Which is like bad combo
You will have high status damage sad status wont last long enough to even deal that damage

So i care to believe reason low duration translates to higher energy cost per sec is only for us not to go to OP with our builds and no other reason

Id say you are right in your opinion but trying to explain it to ppl who just want to defend how it works now just for sake of defending it since they are fine with what they got now
And not realise they are making harm to them selves is just pointless
 

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

1 hour ago, Radu955 said:

If you want to prevent people from having maxed ability efficiency without any drawbacks then add negative effects to mods that give ability efficiency, or have the negative effects activate only when a % of a certain effect (abil str, duration, range, etc) is reached.

Or they could just do what they’re already doing, which makes perfect sense to everyone except you.

It’s almost like the game devs actually know what they’re doing, crazy, I know.

[vanaukas]

6 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Its like riven with +100% status chance -100% status duration
Which is like bad combo
You will have high status damage sad status wont last long enough to even deal that damage

It's not the same, not every status procs DoT, wich would be the only ones affected by a negative SD. Since duration and efficency boths help with energy drain, they are calculated different:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Efficiency

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Duration

[Psianide73]

25 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

It's not the same, not every status procs DoT, wich would be the only ones affected by a negative SD. Since duration and efficency boths help with energy drain, they are calculated different:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Efficiency

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Duration

Ah! The only person who seems to agree with the op is on my ignore list...

[ZeroX4]

31 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

It's not the same, not every status procs DoT, wich would be the only ones affected by a negative SD. Since duration and efficency boths help with energy drain, they are calculated different:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Efficiency

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Duration

Not all warframe builds require us to even care about duration

So you are right its not the same speaking of warframe <> weapon

Its only same if we look at it from build perspective

[SneakyErvin]

It is there because it makes sense and gives extra options to reach the cap.

Like going 175% efficiency and 100% duration, or going 190% efficiency and 40% duration. Build diversity, which is good for the game.

[JackHargreav]

It's there for balance.

That's it.

And sometimes It can be really handy to have it tied to our energy drain. I can get away with not putting on efficiency mods.

I think it's fine as it is overall.