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I though i would never say this, but here I am...

I'm sick of warframe comunity...

Don't get me wrong many of you guys are awsome people, with big range of creativity and are simply awsome... But just...

*sigh*

There is big problem with our comunity, that i dismissed for to long, the cause of my opinion of DE loosing contact with us.

We don't know what we want.

The newest updeat is biggest example. I love how it turned out. I hadn't so much blast in the game with my pals since the original Railjack relese, and i think this updeat is great...

But then... I go to the discord.

On one discord server i hear that new railjack succ becose it feels more like taxi from normal mission to normal mission... Then on the other discord i hear that rhis updeat succ becose it is not connected enough with the rest of the game, and should be more integrated as transportation, even to go so far to delete whole upgreat mechanic.

Do you already see the problem?

Other example: Sanctuary onslaught, Some say they should integrate more variety in the tiles we play in, and expand it, some says DE Should delete this mode compleatly.

Nightwave: Anything from regain 1 season mechanics, being small chunks of the non interactive story, some says it should be like newest one...

I have one question to comunity:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

And don't say to me with empty words like endgame. Endgame propositions have been added and then droped by comunity, becose" It was not endgame, just another farm island"

When DE implements conective tishue, we get reaction like:" They are doing it as poor taxi excuse"

As Game dev and modder myself i want you all to think about this: What do you want from warframe to become? What you want added, that you honestly think is needed.

It is strange to me, for over two years I've been on warframe sub redits. I was acive person... But today i left... All of them.

Why? Becose we as comunity, Succ. everyone on their own is fine, but we have no purpose, no aim... We are just lost, with something good in our hands and don't know what to do with it...

I had this feelings and thoughs ever since new updeat droped, and just wanted to share them with you. I hope that I'm wrong, and we can say to DE what should they do, becose behind curtains we are as devided as we were once, all those five years ago, one...

 

Edit:

 

I wanted to say thank you.

With this post, I became the very thing i was critic towards.

It may be becose i took a brake playing lesser known games and being part of some test clusters, where we all have simular focus...

I forgot how big warframe is, and how many difrent things are supposedly top prioryty, as how many people are simply here to get fame by being whiny b*ch( which is how I came out here)...

Yea, I've seen stats, and now warframe is on a rise, and not to forget still top 10 games on steam, yada yada yada...

I forgot that this is not one of my indies, and even if there happened things that killed robocraft and other games i was usualy part of, it wouldn't realy matter, as to many people are playing it, so i don't have to care as much about the shape of comunity right now, etc.

But I'm also happy to see proper discussion here. It shows that our comunity may not become toxic wasteland as fast as i was afraid it would.

I've red all of it and also wanted to thank:

Alucord( I've seen you everywhere in this thread)

(Xbox)ApollO666( you seem to be likeable bastard)

OneYenShort( I've cracked a laugh on your response)

Teridax68( great usage of as little cash as 2 cents)

(PSN)DoctorWho_90250( I'm with ya man)

LillyRacuune( I'm with ya gal... I think, but i don't want to test if it is just one tail)

Loza03( You are right on all of those whimsy want to be leaders of our comunity)

And you, my dear reader. Have a nice day/week/month/year.

Edited by Flameend11
Urge to response to you all
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I think what it comes down to is, Warframe is a game for everyone. 

DE has added so many game modes, and various things like pets and mining and lunaro, and tried to cater to solo and group and all kinds of difficulty desires, that we have a very diverse group of players with varying wants and needs. Of course most of the playerbase do not see eye to eye. 

And those that enjoy any new update are not talking much, they are playing and enjoying it. 

Those who dislike the new update will always be the most vocal about why it doesn't fit their vision.

Sunrise sunset. DE tries but they can only please so many people at a time... such is life. 

Sometimes you have to block out the noise a bit when an update comes out. DE wades through the actual player data, and all the actual constructive feedback, and gets a good picture of what is actually going on, and tries to go from there. They don't always make the perfect decision I'm sure, but no one is perfect and they have a difficult task. Don't worry too much about the noise. Give constructive feedback, and if you think it's fine and no feedback is needed, just play it and enjoy it and that data will have its own importance compared to people complaining. 

 

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Online communities, as they grow in size, become less coherent and more toxic. The reason for this is, the people who migrate to the online communities tend to do so for only a few reasons:

1: To monitor updates (these people generally do not respond)

2: To complain (These are the vocal majority)

3: To ask/answer questions (These people tend to post very infrequently)

4: To troll the forums and respond in rude/insulting ways (the VERY vocal minority)

Users like myself who have thousands of posts tend to fit into category 4. We have nothing better to do so respond on the forums constantly, and our very loud voice kind of ruins the experience for everyone. I'm guilty of this as are many of the others with thousands of posts.

 

Long story short. Forums are cesspools and the bigger the community the more likely the forum is to become more disgusting. Warframe's is no exception.

 

I will suggest, however, staying away from Discord. Discord is probably the most vile source of player to player communication on the internet. More so than 4chan, I'd argue.

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Gamers at scale on the Internet are fueled by their collective hate of the game companies that have 'slapped them in the face'.

This has not changed, the WF community is no different than any other online gaming community.

It's a cesspool of angst, envy, and hate of others having fun, IME.

Some days, it's really, really funny to watch though and costs less than a movie ticket.

Some people just thrive on sophomoric drama and a desire to one-up the next gamer, what can the rest of us do but try and fun entertainment in all the FUD?

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19 minutes ago, Flameend11 said:

On one discord server i hear that new railjack succ becose it feels more like taxi from normal mission to normal mission... Then on the other discord i hear that rhis updeat succ becose it is not connected enough with the rest of the game, and should be more integrated as transportation, even to go so far to delete whole upgreat mechanic.

Do you already see the problem?

This would be a problem if one person were saying both of these things.  But these are different people.  It's not a problem that everyone doesn't agree.  In fact, it's wonderful that Warframe contains so many different kinds of players with so many different points of view.  I don't think turning the community into a hive-mind solves any problems worth solving.

You are frustrating yourself expecting consistency from thousands of people.  My recommendation would be to take a step back from forums and various Discords.  And if you do read what other people are saying, don't put so much stock in it.  The way you engage with media will determine how healthy your interaction with it is, and it sounds like you need to change something.  Best of luck!

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33 minutes ago, Flameend11 said:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

200.gif

every player has their vision for the game, and if theres a divergence from that then there is going to be disappointment.

There is no pleasing some people no matter what you do, its best to play your own game and have fun with like minded people

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What happened to the real railjack business we saw in the first trailer years ago. There is a lot of content that you have done halfway through or haven't fully developed, for example: arena / rathuum, sanctuary onslaught, raid and sortie and kuva, not to mention a continuous monotomy to carry out grinding tasks without a specific purpose. This game has great potential as a MMORPG, but we fail to see great results like in the open world maps, which lack content and we would like to see an improvement and we hope that in Duviri Paradox we will see an improvement of the open world, otherwise it will become yet another grinding activities. Thank you for reading this message, I hope you don't take it as a criticism but as a suggestion.

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3 minutes ago, ANTONIO255 said:

What happened to the real railjack business we saw in the first trailer years ago. There is a lot of content that you have done halfway through or haven't fully developed, for example: arena / rathuum, sanctuary onslaught, raid and sortie and kuva, not to mention a continuous monotomy to carry out grinding tasks without a specific purpose. This game has great potential as a MMORPG, but we fail to see great results like in the open world maps, which lack content and we would like to see an improvement and we hope that in Duviri Paradox we will see an improvement of the open world, otherwise it will become yet another grinding activities. Thank you for reading this message, I hope you don't take it as a criticism but as a suggestion.

Warframe is not a Role Playing Game.

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35 minutes ago, Flameend11 said:

On one discord server i hear that new railjack succ becose it feels more like taxi from normal mission to normal mission... Then on the other discord i hear that rhis updeat succ becose it is not connected enough with the rest of the game, and should be more integrated as transportation, even to go so far to delete whole upgreat mechanic.

Honestly both those comments can hold true even if they came from the same person. 

If DE wants railjack to be the transportation between locations that's fine but they need to make that 'taxi' phase more engaging.  The issue at the moment is that the update is neither engaging or integrated seamlessly enough (and that's ignoring the other issues that people)

 

To be honest, and imo, part of the reason we have so many 'disconnects' within the community is down to DE.  They've tried to shoehorn so many different things into the game and a lot of the decision makers don't actually seem to play the game outside of the sandboxed testing environment they usually play it in so it often ends up being bitty or content islands.   If the people 'building' the game don't have an overall view of the game in the same way as the players do, especially the long term ones, then there's always going to be issues with the direction the game is going which then ends up with reworks like we've just had on railjack....

It would also help if they actually took notice of the key feedback points (most of the issues were raised before the release) when putting up development posts about the rework etc.  Now I don't expect them to deal with everything but when you have a consensus within the majority of players then you should take notice....what's the point in a workshop post if you're not going to take any notice....

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2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Honestly both those comments can hold true even if they came from the same person. 

If DE wants railjack to be the transportation between locations that's fine but they need to make that 'taxi' phase more engaging.  The issue at the moment is that the update is neither engaging or integrated seamlessly enough (and that's ignoring the other issues that people)

 

To be honest, and imo, part of the reason we have so many 'disconnects' within the community is down to DE.  They've tried to shoehorn so many different things into the game and a lot of the decision makers don't actually seem to play the game outside of the sandboxed testing environment they usually play it in so it often ends up being bitty or content islands.   If the people 'building' the game don't have an overall view of the game in the same way as the players do, especially the long term ones, then there's always going to be issues with the direction the game is going which then ends up with reworks like we've just had on railjack....

It would also help if they actually took notice of the key feedback points (most of the issues were raised before the release) when putting up development posts about the rework etc.  Now I don't expect them to deal with everything but when you have a consensus within the majority of players then you should take notice....what's the point in a workshop post if you're not going to take any notice....

I think a big part of the problem with the workshops is that they are workshops only in name.

By the time they "workshop" stuff to us, it is already at a point where only minor changes can really be made without spending absolutely wasteful amounts of development money and gutting a ton of work they already did. 

They aren't asking us to workshop stuff, by it's real definition of a workshop, they are asking for tweaks to something they already basically finished. 

They could make bigger changes based on workshop feedback if they showed it to us earlier, but they are partly afraid of that, because of the reaction of the players who would react immaturely if the final product is far different than the more modifiable prototype they would hyopthetically show earlier in a more realistic workshop environment. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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1 minute ago, ANTONIO255 said:

technically warframe is an MMORPG

By some people's definition, but the fact you can only play in mission with four players at a time, makes a lot of people argue differently as well. I think definitions for gaming genres today are kind of ill defined, especially when it comes to live service games. 

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think a big part of the problem with the workshops is that they are workshops only in name.

By the time they "workshop" stuff to us, it is already at a point where only minor changes can really be made without spending absolutely wasteful amounts of development money and gutting a ton of work they already did. 

They aren't asking us to workshop stuff, by it's real definition of a workshop, they are asking for tweaks to something they already basically finished. 

Then maybe that needs to change.... because pretty much every workshop has had players highlight the issues before release that DE seem to miss....

Instead of doing the work and then telling us in a workshop when it's too late, start with the workshop and ask us for feedback before starting the (major) changes.

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35 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Online communities, as they grow in size, become less coherent and more toxic. The reason for this is, the people who migrate to the online communities tend to do so for only a few reasons:

1: To monitor updates (these people generally do not respond)

2: To complain (These are the vocal majority)

3: To ask/answer questions (These people tend to post very infrequently)

4: To troll the forums and respond in rude/insulting ways (the VERY vocal minority)

Users like myself who have thousands of posts tend to fit into category 4. We have nothing better to do so respond on the forums constantly, and our very loud voice kind of ruins the experience for everyone. I'm guilty of this as are many of the others with thousands of posts.

 

Long story short. Forums are cesspools and the bigger the community the more likely the forum is to become more disgusting. Warframe's is no exception.

 

I will suggest, however, staying away from Discord. Discord is probably the most vile source of player to player communication on the internet. More so than 4chan, I'd argue.

I can’t help but agree. Just about every discord I’ve joined has been incredibly insular and cliquey. You tend to get treated horribly if you’re new to the discord. It’s actually been quite depressing, and I make the mistake over and over 🤦 

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Hi there @Flameend11^^

so first things first:
Thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion/concerns in an open & constructive way! Even if you are talking about a, from your point of view, somewhat "exhausting"-topic, you took the time to bring up your different points in a nice way without creating conflict/an agressive tone. This is good to see.

Now, back to your topic. 

My humble opinion:
Warframe players never know what they want. We never did in the first place to begin with. I know this may sound harsh, but I have no intend to bash the community or certain players with this statement here. I do not mean this in a negative way at all.
Get ready for a blast of the past:
If I try to remember the first years of Warframe, we players did not know what to expect. Space? Ninjas? Shooter? Coop? The main foundation of the game is amazing, together with a fair free2play/ "pay2skiptime" concept. We didn't know we wanted this, but as soon as we got our hands on it, oooooohh boyyy..what a great & unique feeling. And without even asking for it every single time, we got more! New Warframes, new gamemodes, new bosses, new overall additions and system-changes, quests...Furthermore DE asked us, the small-ish playerbase back then, how we like it and what our experience was so far. What's my point? "Oh the good old days!" maybe...well..not really...a lot has been improved....and a lot of stuff was not as good as it is today...but I digress..
my point here is:
We didn't know what we wanted but most of us were fine with the way DE was doing things.

So, the community got bigger and bigger and bigger, as things go when you are doing good. And the more players are around, the more things&ideas start to pop up. This is great, but it remains...difficult to please everyone. Everyone has a different opinion and different ideas. We are not a hivemind nor should we ever be. The diversity of this great community makes it so special. 
The Warframe Community is still one of my all time favorite Communities and I am so happy to be part of it!
Speaking of diversity: You can see it ingame. Sometimes Warframe wants ("needs") to have something for every player out there! So many different ideas...it can be a little bit much from time to time tbh.

I will cut it here, I had more written down but...this is not the right time for going "all in honesty" for me 😅 I won't say what I "want" from the game. 

to keep it short:
The visible amount of "complaints" people share will always outweight the visible amount of people who enjoy the game. A lot of people who enjoy the game just...well...play the game. If you go to reddit or discord servers or whatnot..mhh..how do i put it....
let's just say around every bigger update, you get "This is the end of Warframe!!1111 DE ruined the game!!!" posts. Every. Single. Time. (srsly, even back in the early years. I can't even remember how often the Warframe world ended already^^)

my advice:
Try to refocus. Maybe take a step back from different discords or a break.
For example: You can find new players in the Forums who are looking for advice/help. Sure, those threads do not get a lot of attention, and the questions/ideas might not always be "groundbreaking", but if you try to support them and give them a good&honest advice, everyone profits! *insert corpus meme here * (this would be a different approach for example)

TL&DR:
You can never please everyone out there.
Some people say "Warframe lacks content! DE needs to implement more new & interesting things!" others say "Warframe has too much content! DE needs to focus on the stuff that is already ingame!" others say "DE doesn't listen to the playerbase! What about old players?", and others say "DE is listening to the wrong part of the playerbase! What about new players?"...there is no right or wrong here, just opinions.

Just enjoy the game as good as you can, maybe try to find people who share your views if you like ccop, maybe even try to help new players if want to do that...and...well...everything will be fine^^

Cheers,
Fabpsi~

Edited by Fabpsi
penguins~
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Some people think the world evolves around them. If they don't like something, they don't think "hey, others might enjoy it, but there is a ton of stuff for me to do outside this content upgrade, so I let those people play the content".

They think "omagawd, if I don't create 1000 threads on the forums, DE might actually think we like the content and the content I like is less developed inthe future".

Truth is, this is what metrics and data are for:

If majority people only play this for 3 days, DE knows that the content is disliked and will develop something else.
If they play for 2-4 months, then DE knows that we need more rewards, but people generally like the direction.
If majority of people keeps playing no matter what, DE has hit the jackpot and they will focus on this content.

So all these harsh forums postings are not necessary. They will know.
If you generally like this content though, but you have constructive criticism or ideas, it might be very useful to share your thoughts.

 

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3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Then maybe that needs to change.... because pretty much every workshop has had players highlight the issues before release that DE seem to miss....

Instead of doing the work and then telling us in a workshop when it's too late, start with the workshop and ask us for feedback before starting the (major) changes.

I agree completely, I think it's a big disconnect between DE and the community right now, especially calling it a workshop when... whatever it is they are doing, isn't that. Call it a feedback thread, at least be honest about it. 

But even better, I would like to see them stop being so afraid of the worst of their playerbase, and show us stuff way more early on when it is in a more hypothetical sense and they haven't wasted a bunch of effort yet (for example the original weakpoint idea for eximus, they made a better version for glassmaker enemies, but the initial idea didn't work and showing us super early on allowed for good feedback on it before they sunk a bunch of time further into it). Then they could know before it is way too late, if stuff like necramechs might actually be entirely a waste of time that has no real place in the game. Or make huge modifications to make it better fit what players are looking for, before it is almost ready to ship. 

I get why they don't. Some people are really toxic when giving feedback, and really toxic if it doesn't look like the initial prototype, etc. But those people will always exist, you gotta just block/ban/tune them out if they are being truly unreasonable, and just keep doing the best for the game anyways.  

 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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50 minutes ago, Flameend11 said:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

Unfortunately, good luck with this in an online game. Some stuff I have seriously enjoyed (Railjack and the updates in particular). other stuff not as much. I personally also think some folks are burned out with the game, but unable to take a break to clear their heads.

 

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism for any game. But sheer outrage and hysteria gets annoying. DE has been pretty good, imo, in addressing and updating stuff that is immediately broken for gameplay. Not everything can, will, or even should be perfectly balanced to make everyone happy. That's just damn impossible.

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There is no "what does the community want." I know exactly what want; I also am fully aware it will never, ne-he-he-he-ver happen. It's a matter of settling for "good enough," of which some of what DE does is most definitely not good enough

So you just don't play that part - one of Warframe's features in that respect is its total disconnectedness. 

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7 minutes ago, ANTONIO255 said:

destiny 1 and 2 are also looter - shooter, but their label is from MMORPG as well as warframe

Where are Warframe and Destiny defined as RPGs?

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The problem with DE is that it changes things without having an opinion base of those who like this or that. The change in railjack was made to suit casuals or those with no idea what they are asking for.

The result was in my opinion bad. Railjack had no problem. Now there are millions of them.

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vor 52 Minuten schrieb Flameend11:

...

I'm sick of warframe comunity...

Don't get me wrong many of you guys are awsome people, with big range of creativity and are simply awsome... But just...

...

and now a serious question: how many players do you know personally? oh yes ... i can even stop here.

and there is no community. there are players! a few loud and frustrated guys are not a community .......

there are idiots everywhere. but it doesn’t mean that they are taken seriously.

and constructive criticism can only improve the game. Warframe has not existed for a long time without feedback!

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