If Saryn is going to stay like this, let us Blacklist Frames for matchmaking

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

Both Limbo and Volt as teammates positively improve my gaming experience in this game, same for Saryn, even if she is the one doing most of the work. 
 

The variety and differences between frame and how they work give us options. 

your experience with them is not the same for others. you should already know this.

[EinheriarJudith]

28 minutes ago, blupache said:

Serious question tho..

You have a tool for removing yourself from the situation you don't like already. Leave group.

If it's really what you're describing, rather than an attempt to curate the overall supply of players & what frames they're incentivised to play, why is the current tool insufficient?

Does it just come down to wanting to avoid going through a load screen prior to using your leave group ability?

this question has already been answered. its silly to keep asking it.

leaving a group everytime to avoid the trouble isnt a solution. playing solo isnt a solution. backflipping and rolling arent opt outs.

optout: to choose not to participate in something. 

backflipping or rolling does not prevent the effects and are therefore not opting out.

opting out of the whole situation before it starts doesnt effect the people who like those frames literally because other people also like them. 

my not wanting to engage in a group that has the intrusive effects, affect no one but myself. if this doesnt make sense well.. sorry i cant help you.

 

[blupache]

17 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

this question has already been answered. its silly to keep asking it.

leaving a group everytime to avoid the trouble isnt a solution. playing solo isnt a solution. backflipping and rolling arent opt outs.

optout: to choose not to participate in something. 

backflipping or rolling does not prevent the effects and are therefore not opting out.

opting out of the whole situation before it starts doesnt effect the people who like those frames literally because other people also like them. 

my not wanting to engage in a group that has the intrusive effects, affect no one but myself. if this doesnt make sense well.. sorry i cant help you.

 

 

Leaving group is absolutely a solution, and it's even the solution that you're asking for. What you're asking for is just a different frontend UI for the functionality. Rather than going "oh, a saryn/volt/limbo/nova/whatever" <click leave group>, you're asking for a permanent setting that has the game pre-emptively leave that group for you.

To use your backflip/roll example, you're asking for a one button press option that strips the buff instead of having to go through an animation effect.

There's a reason why you routinely see blacklists in PVP games, and rarely in PVE games. If you don't understand how blocking frames from the matchmaking list impacts grouping for everyone, then...

[EinheriarJudith]

10 minutes ago, blupache said:

 

Leaving group is absolutely a solution, and it's even the solution that you're asking for. What you're asking for is just a different frontend UI for the functionality. Rather than going "oh, a saryn/volt/limbo/nova/whatever" <click leave group>, you're asking for a permanent setting that has the game pre-emptively leave that group for you.

To use your backflip/roll example, you're asking for a one button press option that strips the buff instead of having to go through an animation effect.

There's a reason why you routinely see blacklists in PVP games, and rarely in PVE games. If you don't understand how blocking frames from the matchmaking list impacts grouping for everyone, then...

i actually know how it works. both vermintide and deep rock galactic have hero duplication blacklist. i own all 3 games. actually the people who dont understand what an opt out actually is well they gather here and ask ridiculous questions.

[George_PPS]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

your experience with them is not the same for others. you should already know this.

I am sure now you know this because you just acknowledged my and others' points. 

[LockingSoul]

En 3/4/2021 a las 5:25, DoomFruit dijo:

Not necessarily. Duration yes, but range is a different matter. High duration, low range Limbo is enough to fully defend a single mobile defence console with 1 cast of Cataclysm, without catching any other players inside the bubble unless they explicitly want to be there.

Because it actively breaks some melee weapons. See here:

 

How comes that, that thing has never happened to me? Neither as volt, nor gauss, or even as gauss with a volt and wisp. I call bs on that.

[LockingSoul]

En 2/4/2021 a las 20:10, GREF_TM dijo:

What do you mean nobody? Everyone with a functioning brain know that frames like saryn, mesa, octavia, etc. are overpowered as hell compared to many other frames. Why aren't they nerfed then, you'll ask? DE just don't give a rat's arse about balance, that's all. We have many underpowered frames, like excal, nyx, hydroid, atlas and many more that aren't getting buffed for literal years, while on the other side, actual op frames don't get nerfed for years - give me a better explanation why they barely do anything about it rather than just not caring at all.

The only OP frame that was nerfed in the last like 4 years was khora, and not because of being overpowered, but because of being too good at the only good steel path farm that DE didn't want us to have.

K now hold up. Excalibur is not underpowered.

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, LockingSoul said:

How comes that, that thing has never happened to me? Neither as volt, nor gauss, or even as gauss with a volt and wisp. I call bs on that.

Can't say I've had the problem myself, but one of the comments in that thread mentions absurdly high attack speed in scenarios like this makes it far more likely to accidentally do a heavy attack when you didn't want one, which I have experienced multiple times with speed Volts, and losing combo multi that way can be pretty annoying.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, LockingSoul said:

How comes that, that thing has never happened to me? Neither as volt, nor gauss, or even as gauss with a volt and wisp. I call bs on that.

Yes, well it happens every single time with me. Guaranteed.

What refresh rate does your monitor operate at?

[TheLexiConArtist]

On 2021-04-06 at 11:10 PM, blupache said:

Leaving group is absolutely a solution, and it's even the solution that you're asking for. What you're asking for is just a different frontend UI for the functionality. Rather than going "oh, a saryn/volt/limbo/nova/whatever" <click leave group>, you're asking for a permanent setting that has the game pre-emptively leave that group for you.

To use your backflip/roll example, you're asking for a one button press option that strips the buff instead of having to go through an animation effect.

There's a reason why you routinely see blacklists in PVP games, and rarely in PVE games. If you don't understand how blocking frames from the matchmaking list impacts grouping for everyone, then...

No, to use the backflip/roll example, we're asking for a setting that instructs the game (our player entity) to disregard the act of applying the specified effect. Not pressing a button once to remove each instance. To be able to play as many games as we want, safe in the knowledge that no matter how any random Volt may be built or their player behave, that neither gets in our way, nor do we need to get in the Volt player's way by requiring them to operate differently so as not to affect us.

In the matchmaking-blacklist case, that'd be the differential of whether the player in question has to go through loading screens, check squad composition, leave, loading screen, select mission, potentially rinse repeat ad nauseum, versus simply.. being matched into a 'safe' squad on that first loading screen.

 

Granted, the question of matchmaking dilution remains, but in the absence of actual mechanical changes that would make such issues unnecessary, perhaps it's better to have that fallback than nothing at all.

[Levarius]

Blacklisting frames would be an absolute nightmare for matchmaking. That's an extra 45 layers to sift through when matching players. 

[GREF_TM]

22 hours ago, LockingSoul said:

K now hold up. Excalibur is not underpowered.

Yeah, right, a frame with 1.5 good abilities clearly doesn't need buffs.

Look at baruuk, look at excal, find 10 differences.

[Vaml77]

I am perplexed to know that until today DE has done nothing with saryn. All warframes have received some improvements or reworks ... but saryn seems to be DE's favorite warframe or that DE is afraid to tamper with and lose "players" who abuse the mechanics of this warframe .... ironically it is a warframe based in toxin and toxic to the game itself.

[George_PPS]

7 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

I am perplexed to know that until today DE has done nothing with saryn. All warframes have received some improvements or reworks ... but saryn seems to be DE's favorite warframe or that DE is afraid to tamper with and lose "players" who abuse the mechanics of this warframe .... ironically it is a warframe based in toxin and toxic to the game itself.

This is a game with powerful warframes with unique abilities. Saryn is a great design many players like. If it works for most players and DE, it doesn't need to be changed for few that can get triggered easily. 

[GREF_TM]

2 hours ago, George_PPS said:

Saryn is a great design

lol

[continue]

On 2021-04-07 at 9:11 AM, LockingSoul said:

How comes that, that thing has never happened to me? Neither as volt, nor gauss, or even as gauss with a volt and wisp. I call bs on that.

similar issue is documented here:

as well as here and here:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

melee oddities are nothing new to warframe, unfortunately, nor are issues related to refresh rate. i think mesa's regulators' max fire rate was your framerate at one point.

11 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

I am perplexed to know that until today DE has done nothing with saryn. All warframes have received some improvements or reworks ... but saryn seems to be DE's favorite warframe or that DE is afraid to tamper with and lose "players" who abuse the mechanics of this warframe .... ironically it is a warframe based in toxin and toxic to the game itself.

saryn's current state *was* the rework. now that they've done it once, they're unlikely to do it again

[Pizzarugi]

15 hours ago, continue said:

saryn's current state *was* the rework. now that they've done it once, they're unlikely to do it again

If I recall, she was reworked twice. If they can rework a frame twice, they can do it a third time. :P

[LagartoPunkarra]

Blacklisting Warframes? I didn't knew I was playing League of Legends.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Opting out buffs sounds like a good idea. Is it hard to implement?

[ganjou234]

On 2021-03-23 at 4:42 AM, (XBOX)Helverin said:

Then you may got rid of Saryn... What about a Mirage brammaring around? 😛 There will always be some frames and Weapons capable of nuking everything in sight. I think a blacklist excludes more then in includes in the end.

Directional nuke vs whole map nuke.

[ganjou234]

On 2021-04-03 at 3:11 AM, LockingSoul said:

 is still dumb to try and negate people from playing how they like so you can play how you like.

 

He's not suggesting to change how other people play. A blacklist means he wont get matched with squads with a specific frame.

For someone talking about smooth brain, it's ironic you couldn't comprehend this.

[Phatose]

This has been suggested before, but it simply isn't practical, and if implemented, would end up nearly completely unused due to the serious practical issues it would have. 

Your blacklist wouldn't remove only people playing the frame(s) you've blacklisted.  In order to ensure that the lists are respected, a player could only matchmake with another player with the exact same blacklist, otherwise someone's preferences will be ignored.  If, for example, I have no blacklist, and you blacklists a dozen frames, and you join my match, either your list is ignored, or I have my available teammates cut down vastly due to something I had no control over.  Neither is acceptable.

As a result, if you were to actually use the blacklist, you'd either end up turning it off immediately when you realize it reduces your available game to near zero, or you'd just be playing alone most of the time.  If the later is OK to you, set yourself to solo mode, and you can have that experience right now.

[(XBOX)Helverin]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb ganjou234:

Directional nuke vs whole map nuke.

Maybe Saryn will be next who experience the glorious LoS mechanic. That being said the general idea of line of sight is a good thing since I like an active approach. But it should be implemented correctly not like... Whipclaw. Hell, even my Ember miss stuff clearly in line of sight. 

[LockingSoul]

hace 3 horas, ganjou234 dijo:

He's not suggesting to change how other people play. A blacklist means he wont get matched with squads with a specific frame.

For someone talking about smooth brain, it's ironic you couldn't comprehend this.

Says the dude that cabt comprehend that your fun is not the only one that matters.

[Pizzarugi]

5 hours ago, Phatose said:

This has been suggested before, but it simply isn't practical, and if implemented, would end up nearly completely unused due to the serious practical issues it would have. 

Your blacklist wouldn't remove only people playing the frame(s) you've blacklisted.  In order to ensure that the lists are respected, a player could only matchmake with another player with the exact same blacklist, otherwise someone's preferences will be ignored.  If, for example, I have no blacklist, and you blacklists a dozen frames, and you join my match, either your list is ignored, or I have my available teammates cut down vastly due to something I had no control over.  Neither is acceptable.

As a result, if you were to actually use the blacklist, you'd either end up turning it off immediately when you realize it reduces your available game to near zero, or you'd just be playing alone most of the time.  If the later is OK to you, set yourself to solo mode, and you can have that experience right now.

Why not just have the blacklist only respect the host's? If you host, only your blacklist is respected. That means if you really wish to avoid OP frames, your best odds are to host missions yourself.