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If Saryn is going to stay like this, let us Blacklist Frames for matchmaking


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45 minutes ago, LockingSoul said:

Says the dude that cabt comprehend that your fun is not the only one that matters.

The same could be said to you. You're ignoring a detail that your fun shouldn't detract from others having fun.

Taking away the 'horde' in 'horde-shooter' with one button may be fun to you, but it's taking away the fun from players who actually want to shoot at something.

Your fun ends where ending others' fun begins. This is why Limbo had to be reworked rather than DE telling people to #*!% off to solo.

Edited by Pizzarugi
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4 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Why not just have the blacklist only respect the host's? If you host, only your blacklist is respected. That means if you really wish to avoid OP frames, your best odds are to host missions yourself.

Mostly because host or not is itself outside of user control.  You'd have players getting kicked on mission start when the game chooses the host.

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7 minutes ago, Phatose said:

Mostly because host or not is itself outside of user control.  You'd have players getting kicked on mission start when the game chooses the host.

The blacklist could always just apply while host is in lobby or there's a client in orbiter looking for a team, ignoring players already in one.

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Just now, Pizzarugi said:

The blacklist could always just apply while host is in lobby or there's a client in orbiter looking for a team, ignoring players already in one.

I could see it maybe functioning like this:

If you've got a blacklist, you never host public matches.  That way, your blacklist doesn't affect other player's matchmaking.  If there are no other matches in progress, you just stay searching for a match until one is found.

You never get matchmade with anyone using a frame you've blacklisted.  You'll try to join, ideally matches with 3 other players not using your blacklisted frames.  If that's unavailable, next preference is open lobbies with no blacklisted frames that haven't started yet.  If anyone joins the lobby using one of your blacklisted frames before the match starts, you automatically leave the lobby and go back to searching.  If no clear lobbies are available, it looks for games in progress with no black marks.  If it does that and a blacklisted frame joins after you, it immediately informs you and asks if you want to leave the match and go back to searching.

The important part is that your blacklist should only prevent you from joining games, not ever other players.

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4 minutes ago, Phatose said:

I could see it maybe functioning like this:

If you've got a blacklist, you never host public matches.  That way, your blacklist doesn't affect other player's matchmaking.  If there are no other matches in progress, you just stay searching for a match until one is found.

You never get matchmade with anyone using a frame you've blacklisted.  You'll try to join, ideally matches with 3 other players not using your blacklisted frames.  If that's unavailable, next preference is open lobbies with no blacklisted frames that haven't started yet.  If anyone joins the lobby using one of your blacklisted frames before the match starts, you automatically leave the lobby and go back to searching.  If no clear lobbies are available, it looks for games in progress with no black marks.  If it does that and a blacklisted frame joins after you, it immediately informs you and asks if you want to leave the match and go back to searching.

The important part is that your blacklist should only prevent you from joining games, not ever other players.

That would work, this wouldn't affect players without a blacklist or with a different blacklist.

However, I don't think it'll be implemented and, if it does, most people wouldn't use it, as, surprisingly, most people doesn't mind a Saryn or an Equinox nuking the rooms for them.

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23 hours ago, LockingSoul said:

Says the dude that cabt comprehend that your fun is not the only one that matters.

Says the guy who's defending Saryn hahahaha.

The irony in your reply, lmao.

The system is simple really. If I'm the host then a Saryn wont be able to join, if I'm looking for a match then if there is Saryn already then I dont join it. If the game had a classic lobby with checkbox warframe filters then this would be easier.

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En 11/4/2021 a las 14:14, ganjou234 dijo:

Says the guy who's defending Saryn hahahaha.

The irony in your reply, lmao.

The system is simple really. If I'm the host then a Saryn wont be able to join, if I'm looking for a match then if there is Saryn already then I dont join it. If the game had a classic lobby with checkbox warframe filters then this would be easier.

If your fun requires limiting other people's fun because you dont like what they are using, then there is a problem, and a really stupid one.

Almost as stupid as hating a Volt casting speed on you as gauss.

Lile the #*!% was that dude about.

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17 hours ago, LockingSoul said:

If your fun requires limiting other people's fun because you dont like what they are using, then there is a problem, and a really stupid one.

Almost as stupid as hating a Volt casting speed on you as gauss.

Lile the #*!% was that dude about.

"u r selfish" doesn't refute anything that other person said and can also be applied to Saryn players taking the fun away from people who want to shoot things and have fun.

It's funny that when Saryn's nuking the game and leaving nothing for the teammates to do, it's fine. but void help you if you suggest wanting to exclude those kinds of players from your missions.

Edited by Pizzarugi
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On 2021-04-10 at 11:48 PM, Phatose said:

only matchmake with another player with the exact same blacklist

Exact match is not required. If DE even theoretically were to implement something like that, the system would simply check bans frame by frame and match you with any player that meets the condition of their frame not being in your ban list and/or yours in theirs.

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27 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

Exact match is not required. If DE even theoretically were to implement something like that, the system would simply check bans frame by frame and match you with any player that meets the condition of their frame not being in your ban list and/or yours in theirs.

No, that is not OK.  That creates a situation where someone with no black list whatsoever can be joined by someone with half the frames in the game blacklisted, at which point half the players in the game cannot join the first player's game.  This is not OK - your restrictive blacklist should not be able to prevent matches between two other players.

 

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You all smoked something.

i hate Frames being reduced there skills.

A few months or years ago the frames where better they getting crappy with every reduction.

they skills need to be more powered.

Edited by (PSN)AdiosGamer
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10 hours ago, Phatose said:

No, that is not OK.

I pointed out that your idea if an "exact match" being necessary is wrong, without going into subjective opinions whether such system should or should not exist.

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2 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

I pointed out that your idea if an "exact match" being necessary is wrong, without going into subjective opinions whether such system should or should not exist.

You missed a rather important part of my claim.

On 2021-04-10 at 9:48 AM, Phatose said:

our blacklist wouldn't remove only people playing the frame(s) you've blacklisted.  In order to ensure that the lists are respected, a player could only matchmake with another player with the exact same blacklist, otherwise someone's preferences will be ignored.

The solution you've described runs into the issue I described in the original post.  Player A has no blacklist.  Player B has a frame not being used player A, and is thus is allowed to join.  Player C, who is using that frame, then tries to join the game.  What happens?  If he's allowed to join, you've ignored player B's preferences.  If he's not, you've ignored player A's preferences.

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On 2021-04-13 at 10:45 AM, LockingSoul said:

If your fun requires limiting other people's fun because you dont like what they are using, then there is a problem, and a really stupid one.

You still don't get the point huh.....

Nothing in this request limits anyone's fun.

On 2021-04-13 at 10:45 AM, LockingSoul said:

Almost as stupid as hating a Volt casting speed on you as gauss.

Apples and oranges comparison, false equivalence. You can't bloody compare buffers and nukers.

Edited by ganjou234
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If it bothers you, I just play missions where the average nuking Saryn is ineffective and/or can't stay alive (i.e. anything over lvl 100).

Recent sortie was a Corpus defense with "augmented enemy shields" and it was pretty amusing seeing the usual "press 4 to win" frames drop out one by one when they realised they were completely ineffective, and had evidently not bothered to mod their weapons for toxin.

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Saryn is the most braindead, skill-less frame.

People talk about frames being "selfish" but Saryn is the top of that list due to the frames singular ability to suck the fun out of every mission for every other player.

I would be ecstatic if the frame were utterly removed from the game.

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On 2021-04-06 at 11:32 PM, George_PPS said:

no frame should do the job of 4 people while inside a group of 4 people. it removes the whole playing part for the others in the group. i will always stand by this. 

This reminded me that time I was in a Defense mission to level my equipment and one dude was with Saryn nuking every enemy. Instead of raging, the rest of the party camped near the objective, one played the Shawzin and we started to talk and chill.

So having a frame being able to carry a team in some missions isn't bad, specially if this gives you a good time anyway.

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22 hours ago, Rovaeden said:

Saryn is the most braindead, skill-less frame.

Put the average braindead 1-4 spamming Saryn in a Steel Path mission and she'll be dead in 1 minute.

I have my time with Saryn myself and I have a build that trades the effectiveness of Spores (kills enemies too quickly to disperse and stay on enemies enough time) with boosting weapon damage to disgusting levels (Corrosive + Toxin boosted weapons aren't a joke). So I traded the Spores for more weapon damage, making Saryn require a little more effort to kill enemies than spamming an ability, but having a higher direct DPS.

This is to show that any frame can be as braindead or needing more skill as you want them to be.

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On 2021-04-23 at 7:23 PM, ElecDeathblade said:

Put the average braindead 1-4 spamming Saryn in a Steel Path mission and she'll be dead in 1 minute.

I have my time with Saryn myself and I have a build that trades the effectiveness of Spores (kills enemies too quickly to disperse and stay on enemies enough time) with boosting weapon damage to disgusting levels (Corrosive + Toxin boosted weapons aren't a joke). So I traded the Spores for more weapon damage, making Saryn require a little more effort to kill enemies than spamming an ability, but having a higher direct DPS.

This is to show that any frame can be as braindead or needing more skill as you want them to be.


Totally agree with you.
I wish Saryn players regularly thought as you do and went with the more interesting build rather than the "YAY! ALL MAH NUMBAZ UND KILLZ! I RULZ!" bs that is typical and furthermore sucks the fun out of the mission for everyone else. Sadly however, I find that they do not.

I personally try to build my frames to be interesting and fun for my style of play rather than meta.

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32 minutes ago, Rovaeden said:

Totally agree with you.
I wish Saryn players regularly thought as you do and went with the more interesting build rather than the "YAY! ALL MAH NUMBAZ UND KILLZ! I RULZ!" bs that is typical and furthermore sucks the fun out of the mission for everyone else. Sadly however, I find that they do not.

I personally try to build my frames to be interesting and fun for my style of play rather than meta.

Yeah, you find that 50% of the playerbase just goes with meta when doing builds.

Another example: the usual player will use Frost by spamming 3 and 4 to play him. Meanwhile, I was like "how about I make an attack Frost?" So I replaced his 3 (yes, his signature Snow Globe) with Lavos ability and place augments for his 1 and 2. Now with Lavos abiliry has free mobility and CC, while 1st ability is to boost weapons with cold, 2nd to add more CC and slow enemies and 4th for the ocasional freeze nuke. For Lua Interruption he's amazing.

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21 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Yeah, you find that 50% of the playerbase just goes with meta when doing builds.

Another example: the usual player will use Frost by spamming 3 and 4 to play him. Meanwhile, I was like "how about I make an attack Frost?" So I replaced his 3 (yes, his signature Snow Globe) with Lavos ability and place augments for his 1 and 2. Now with Lavos abiliry has free mobility and CC, while 1st ability is to boost weapons with cold, 2nd to add more CC and slow enemies and 4th for the ocasional freeze nuke. For Lua Interruption he's amazing.

That's a pretty ingenious build right there! Very cool!

Would love to see it in action sometime.

 

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On 2021-03-22 at 8:50 PM, Hello said:

Sure, I'll throw Wisp and Volt on the list so I can never be in a group with them. 

If I can see the group before the mission starts, I always leave the moment Volt and Wisp pops into the group. People complain thinking I'm looking at relics, but I'm looking at frames.  The moment a Volt uses speed, I leave. The moment a Wisp puts a haste mote in a hallway that we can't avoid, I leave.

If only DE would give us a menu to opt out of "buffs" that affect allies per frame so we can opt out of certain ones.

Also before anyone does the typical "BuT yOu CaN bAcKfLiP" to get rid of speed. Doing that every 5 seconds from people spamming for no reason just kills the flow of the game. Such way to get rid of a mote doesn't exist except for jumping into the abyss.

This person needs to play some PvP. 

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