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If Saryn is going to stay like this, let us Blacklist Frames for matchmaking


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It's a nice idea, but it wouldn't work all the time... if I blacklisted a Warframe that joined a game after me I shouldn't be able to force them to leave. 

The problem here are people... months in the game, when I realized that killing rooms with Equinox isn't fun for others I just stopped bringing that build in public games... It's simple as that

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For Volt buff DE could simply do what they did with Limbo giving other players the option to roll to remove the effect. The real problem are people stealing kills during all game, and for that there isn't a solution I'm afraid. Some people simply have fun that way I guess.

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3 hours ago, (PSN)LordWengeanCe said:

For Volt buff DE could simply do what they did with Limbo giving other players the option to roll to remove the effect.

You already can for Volt - do a backflip and it's gone. The only problem is that I need to keep doing that every 20 seconds and there's no way to stop Valkyr or Wisp griefing short of jumping off a cliff and erasing *all* your buffs.

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"I don't like the way other people are playing, make it so they can't play that way."

You guys have been making these complaints for years.

At some point, you're going to need to accept the way other people play, instead of trying to force your method on others.

Play solo, play with a group, or be quiet on the matter.

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On 2021-04-06 at 9:08 PM, Klaeljanu said:

Sure, then we can blacklist Volt for his nuking ability,

Then Octavia for her roller ball of irritation.

Then Ember for Meteor spam

Then Xaku for making Radiation hazard maps hilarious instagib fights.

Then Mesa for Peacemaker spam

Then Nezha for Divine Spears and Chakram spam

Then Mirage for her various nukes.

Then Titania for her flight form weapons being flying-mesa.

Then Garuda for spamming her 4 then hitting mobs with an AOE weapon.

Then Banshee for Soundquake.

Then every other frame, since they can either be slotted with a nuke, str boosting ability, or can carry a nuke primary like the Bramma/Lenz/Bubonico/Acceltra/Trumna/Stahlta or a Glaive Melee.

Note: Order and list of frames blacklisted is in the order that I recalled that I have a nuke build for them, it is meant to mimic a comprehensive list, not be one.

The funny thing is that no matter what you do, it will never be good. Ember was nerfed because his 4e can nuke low level mobs without spaming it. And now there are complaints because spamming his 4th nuke mid level mobs. Ash was nerfed because his 4e can auto-select mobs in range. Now there are complaints because the selected mobs died before he could trigger his 4e.

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On 2021-04-27 at 8:06 PM, Aegni said:

"I don't like the way other people are playing, make it so they can't play that way."

You guys have been making these complaints for years.

At some point, you're going to need to accept the way other people play, instead of trying to force your method on others.

Play solo, play with a group, or be quiet on the matter.

You're trying to over simplify an obviously complicated issue....

It's one thing for one player to have an issue with how someone else players in a Different Game/Level/Difficulty etc.... In that case your Response applies....

But the "Play How You Want" Argument no longer applies when players are in the same squad all contributing torwards the same goal.... How your Team Mates play is going to directly affect your Experience and Results....

A player who wants to explore the Environment and Pick up all the Shineys going to impede the progress of someone who's actually completing mission objectives....

On 2021-04-27 at 8:06 PM, Aegni said:

"I don't like the way other people are playing, make it so they can't play that way."

As ridiculous as it sounds.... Yes.... In this context this actually is a valid argument.... 

 

55 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Ember was nerfed because his 4e can nuke low level mobs without spaming it. And now there are complaints because spamming his 4th nuke mid level mobs.

I'm fairly certain this is not True.... I've never encountered an actual since Complaint about Ember excessive nuking since her Rework....

57 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Ash was nerfed because his 4e can auto-select mobs in range. Now there are complaints because the selected mobs died before he could trigger his 4e.

Yeah.... This is actually a Valid Complaint.... This doesn't mean that Ash's Blade Storm can't be good.... All you did was point out who ever did this Rework did it badly....

I mean.... Are you happy with how Ash's Blade Storm works both before and After it's changes ?

I can't.... But atleast with Ember they did actually improve her.... Same goes for Wukong, Nezha, Booben etc.

There are just as many instances of DE Making things good as there are making things bad....

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Chiming in from the vacant side (Lunaro) I am found still wanting for PvE Arcata (just make heavy attack respawn Lunaro ball at some cost of melee counter @[DE]Steve, pretty please)

 

People want to Blacklist a frame from Water Dog days, Lunaro, Conclave, just so they never have to see said frame in mission.

I mean if people are already going to the lengths to leave a mission due to Warframe composition. I guess DE might as well just implement a Blacklist Toggle for frames since it is that bad.

I think that is rather extreme.

Seeing the posts whom who prefer not to have Melee Attack speed buffed...does that also mean Blacklist of Warframes would apply to Specters?

(A Wisp Haste More from a Specter would most likely be placed where it could be a hindrance, due to AI*)

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11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I'm fairly certain this is not True.... I've never encountered an actual since Complaint about Ember excessive nuking since her Rework....

Well... just look at the post i quoted ^^'

 

11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I mean.... Are you happy with how Ash's Blade Storm works both before and After it's changes ?

Ash was one of my favorite frame before the Storm Blade nerf. Without doubt my most dynamic, fast-paced and skillfull warframe considering that you had a fraction of seconde to make a one handed action or shoot between teleportations during Blade Storm.

 

22 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I can't.... But atleast with Ember they did actually improve her....

Compared to his pre-nerfed WoF ? No, I don't think so. They mainly trade CC for the boredom of micromanaging and DR. The increase in damage comes from the massive fire proc buff.

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31 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Well... just look at the post i quoted ^^'

What Am I looking for exactly ? 

There's a fundamental difference between People Spamming for Spam's Sake and a Warframe having Spam as part of its Design.... Since the Effectiveness of Work On Fire scales with Ember's Heat Gimmick then it's not Practical to Spam it.... 

The fact that trolls can Spam it is more of a Problem with DE being too lenient on Toxic Players than it is a Reflection of Ember's design....

 

Unfortunately the same thing doesn't apply to Saryn.... Since the 1 + 4 Combo is so effective you kinda of feel like you're not playing Saryn Properly if you don't Spam it.... On top of that since she doesn't rely on Channeled Abilities like Ember Does.... That just leads to even more Spamming....

Difference between Ember and Saryn is that playing Saryn correctly leads to a worse experience for your Team Mates.... The same argument doesn't apply to Ember.

38 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Ash was one of my favorite frame before the Storm Blade nerf. Without doubt my most dynamic, fast-paced and skillfull warframe considering that you had a fraction of seconde to make a one handed action or shoot between teleportations during Blade Storm.

I couldn't help but notice you made no mention of Team Mates while you praising Pre-Nerf Ash....

I'm not saying you have to be social but can you atleast see how Blade Storm was problematic in Group Play ?

40 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Compared to his pre-nerfed WoF ? No, I don't think so. They mainly trade CC for the boredom of micromanaging and DR. The increase in damage comes from the massive fire proc buff.

Yeah... What you just described is how Ember has improved.... Remember... The Old World On Fire had a Single Purpose.... Nuking low level mobs.... Not only that.... It did that with extremely minimal interaction.... All you had to do was Walk..... And you know DE is against the "Set & Forget" Way of Playing...

The new World on Fire not only has a use on higher levels but it's also more involved....  And incorporates her Other abilities into the interaction.... Is this fun ?  That's not for me to decide... But it's definitely an improvement.

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

What Am I looking for exactly ? 

There's a fundamental difference between People Spamming for Spam's Sake and a Warframe having Spam as part of its Design.... Since the Effectiveness of Work On Fire scales with Ember's Heat Gimmick then it's not Practical to Spam it.... 

The fact that trolls can Spam it is more of a Problem with DE being too lenient on Toxic Players than it is a Reflection of Ember's design....

This is obvious. Her 1 is useless since it costs 2.5 times more than the 4, does less damage and is much less comfortable to use. Her 2 is a no-go if you don't want to bother with micromanagement, which is the case for the vast majority of players. As a result, the 3 is useless since you don't care about heat and micro-management and you don't want to slow mobs flow. That leaves 4, with a pretty fun and badass graphic effect that you can spam to nuke mid-tiers mobs. This is the design that most players see in the new Ember and how she's played.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Unfortunately the same thing doesn't apply to Saryn.... Since the 1 + 4 Combo is so effective you kinda of feel like you're not playing Saryn Properly if you don't Spam it.... On top of that since she doesn't rely on Channeled Abilities like Ember Does.... That just leads to even more Spamming....

Difference between Ember and Saryn is that playing Saryn correctly leads to a worse experience for your Team Mates.... The same argument doesn't apply to Ember.

Well... sorry to play the way it mean to be played or to play the way i like to play. Like i said, no matter what you do, it will never be good.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

I couldn't help but notice you made no mention of Team Mates while you praising Pre-Nerf Ash....

I'm not saying you have to be social but can you atleast see how Blade Storm was problematic in Group Play ?

Since I was spending part of my time reviving them (often enough that i ended up sacrificing a damage mod to add the Smoke Shadow augment instead), i guess the amount of mobs left to kill was not the problem.

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The Old World On Fire had a Single Purpose.... Nuking low level mobs.... Not only that.... It did that with extremely minimal interaction.... All you had to do was Walk..... And you know DE is against the "Set & Forget" Way of Playing...

This is just a side effect of the way the damage is handled. With base damage based on HP level with a cap of 300 base damage, this problem would have been fixed without breaking its 2 iconic powers.

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The new World on Fire not only has a use on higher levels but it's also more involved....  And incorporates her Other abilities into the interaction....

As i said, the increased damage come from the improved fire proc. The power itself does about as much damage if you try to bother keeping a heat gauge full as if you use the old 2. Except you don't buff your team.

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Is this fun ?  That's not for me to decide... But it's definitely an improvement.

The purpose of a game is to entertain you. So what is the definition of entertainment?
If you don't want to say whether the new Ember is more fun, you can't say it's an improvement.

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21 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Her 2 is a no-go if you don't want to bother with micromanagement, which is the case for the vast majority of players. As a result, the 3 is useless since you don't care about heat and micro-management and you don't want to slow mobs flow. That leaves 4, with a pretty fun and badass graphic effect that you can spam to nuke mid-tiers mobs. This is the design that most players see in the new Ember and how she's played

What you call "Micromanagement" is what DE calls Ability Synergy... And believe it or not ever since Nezhas Divine Spear + Chakram One Two Combo players have been responding alot better to these Types of interactions (Harrow is one of my favourites because all 4 of his Abilities work in unison)... They like them and if they would do a better job of explaining what these Abilities do it might Catch on with more players....

I don't know if you notice but every new Warframe since Baruuk has some sort "Micromanaging" Element to them.... A thing you do that interacts either with another ability or with a passive.... This is no Accident.... They do this because they know most players prefer this over Spam one single ability over and over again....

I'm sorry but I just don't believe the Majority of Ember Players people encounter are 1 button Spamming World on fire... I find it difficult to believe those players are going through that much effort to be less Efficient than if they just played her Normally.

34 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Well... sorry to play the way it mean to be played or to play the way i like to play. Like i said, no matter what you do, it will never be good.

No need to apologise... It's not your fault....

That being said.... We won't know wether it will good be good or not until there's a Rework....

Doing it for Ember was easy because she was already in the Toilet so the only direction for her to go... Was up..... 

In Dargyn's case it's the exact opposite.... She's the queen of her domain so the only direction she can go... Is down....

38 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Since I was spending part of my time reviving them (often enough that i ended up sacrificing a damage mod to add the Smoke Shadow augment instead), i guess the amount of mobs left to kill was not the problem.

Except it was.... Maybe not for you.... But other Ash mains may have been Doubling Down on those Shadow Clones.... Especially in Radiation Sorties where they get to Stab their Team Mates....

40 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

This is just a side effect of the way the damage is handled. With base damage based on HP level with a cap of 300 base damage, this problem would have been fixed without breaking its 2 iconic powers.

How does fiddling with the Damage Numbers fix the problem of "Set and Forget" ? 🤔

42 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

As i said, the increased damage come from the improved fire proc. The power itself does about as much damage if you try to bother keeping a heat gauge full as if you use the old 2. Except you don't buff your team.

I don't see the issue here.... If you know you need to keep the Heat Gauge full to Deal the Damage then that's what you should be doing...

It's the same story with Gauss.... If you want the single Cast Thermal Sunder bonus from Redline then you have to keep the Battery above 80%.... Unfortunately DE doesn't do a good job of explaining this.

46 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

The purpose of a game is to entertain you. So what is the definition of entertainment?
If you don't want to say whether the new Ember is more fun, you can't say it's an improvement.

I can say whether it is or more fun but that only tells if that's the case for me and not for everyone playing Ember in general....

I can, however, say it's an improvement simply because that's how bad Ember was before her Rework.... 

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3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What you call "Micromanagement" is what DE calls Ability Synergy...

No connection between both.

Look at Rhino : a lot of synergy, not a once of micromanagement. And dare to tell me that the old Ember Accelerent didn't synergize with her 3 other powers ?

Now, on the new Ember, remove the absurd amount of energy the heat jauge consumes (leave it at 1.25 energy/second, for example, regardless of the heat level): you remove the need for micromanagement but, surprise, the interactions are still there.

Synergize are here to add goodies with the use of multiple powers, even the less usefull. Micromanagement is here to prevent us to use a warframe the way anybody want.

Well, i think that i can jump all your paragraphe since it just mixing synergy and micromanagement

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I don't know if you notice but every new Warframe since Baruuk has some sort "Micromanaging" Element to them....

What ? Are you kidding ?? The 4 last warframe don't have micromanagement at all. And no, killing enemies with powers is not micromanagement. Or so, you must admit that Saryn's Spore is micromanagement 🤣

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

A thing you do that interacts either with another ability or with a passive...

Not new... Volt's passive :

Quote

Traveling along the ground between Volt's attacks (by walking, running, or sliding) will build up static energy, adding bonus Electricity damage toward Volt's next weapon attack or ability cast.

For every 1 meter traveled, 5 points of Electricity damage are added, accumulating to a maximum of 1000 bonus damage.

 

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

That being said.... We won't know wether it will good be good or not until there's a Rework....

Well... that's pretty easy to answer: if there's a rework because something is massively used (like Ember or Ash or Mirage/Simulor)... the result will probably be much less good (but i admit there is some exception, like Saryn). If there's a rework because something is massively unused... the result will probably be much better.

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Except it was.... Maybe not for you.... But other Ash mains may have been Doubling Down on those Shadow Clones.... Especially in Radiation Sorties where they get to Stab their Team Mates....

Like any AoE Warframe. Have you ever try Radial Disarme in Radiation Sorties ?

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

How does fiddling with the Damage Numbers fix the problem of "Set and Forget" ? 🤔

You can't forget something you can't kill before it hit you :)

Unless you mean that all toggle powers must be removed ? If it's the latter, you just don't need to fix something that isn't broken.

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

If you know you need to keep the Heat Gauge full to Deal the Damage then that's what you should be doing...

I also know that i need to keep the heat gauge as low as possible to not suck up my energy in few seconds. So i take the heat gauge out of the equation and i can spam 4 all my soul. KISS 😘

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

It's the same story with Gauss.... If you want the single Cast Thermal Sunder bonus from Redline then you have to keep the Battery above 80%.... Unfortunately DE doesn't do a good job of explaining this.

Ho... with Gauss, i'm even more barbare, i just built around his 2 to be immortal with infinite energy with a big fat kuva ogris with napalm (one of my favorite current build). Why would i bother with a mystic redline ?

 

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I can say whether it is or more fun but that only tells if that's the case for me and not for everyone playing Ember in general....

I can, however, say it's an improvement simply because that's how bad Ember was before her Rework.... 

Well... you just need to compare how much Ember was used before the WoF nerf (so before February 7th, 2018) and now. That should make an idea.

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On 2021-03-23 at 12:36 PM, DeltaForce245 said:

Saryn completely removes gameplay for the other 3 people playing and no, no other nuke frame does it at the extent Saryn does

Now, you should have said "Limbo" and those replying with "WTF are you drinking" would all be agreeing with you 😆

 

I do think Saryn is OP for what it does, but then so too is Equinox and Mirage and several others. I think the best solution is to get rid of the circular nuke and make it directional - like Ember only splats enemies in front of her, Its still fun for th eplayer, whilst not being so totally overused. DE will probably nerf it to uselessness otherwise.

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1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

I think the best solution is to get rid of the circular nuke and make it directional - like Ember only splats enemies in front of her

That's not even possible without a rework to nearly every frame, otherwise it's a straight 50% nerf. How would you even convert something like Grendel's ground slam into a directional attack, or Rhino's stomp? Gara's wall shattering? Hell, even Oberon's grove is already directional but can be turned into a full circle with mods. Should its equation stop taking range into account? I suppose Frost's dome should be converted to an ice wall, Trinity's heal should only affect allies in front of her, and Banshee's quake should be turned into Sonic Boom 2.0.

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1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Look at Rhino : a lot of synergy, not a once of micromanagement.

This isn't right 🤔.... The only way Rhino's Abilities Synergize is if you use his Augment.... they don't have any innate Synergy....

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

And dare to tell me that the old Ember Accelerent didn't synergize with her 3 other powers ?

Sadly just like with Booben.... Ember was MR Fodder to me before her Rework....  So I don't remember..... In any case it doesn't matter.... You already acknowledged Ember has Ability Synergy.... You just call it Micromanagement because of whatever reason....

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

What ? Are you kidding ?? The 4 last warframe don't have micromanagement at all. And no, killing enemies with powers is not micromanagement. Or so, you must admit that Saryn's Spore is micromanagement 🤣

Like I said.... What you describe as "Micromanagement" is what everyone else calls Ability Synergy.... 

Who were the last 4 Warframe's anyway ? 

Sevagoth, Lavos and Xaku ? Those are the only ones I remember..... And I haven't used any of them....

 

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Now, on the new Ember, remove the absurd amount of energy the heat jauge consumes (leave it at 1.25 energy/second, for example, regardless of the heat level): you remove the need for micromanagement but, surprise, the interactions are still there.

Absurd Amount Of Energy ?

It's only Absurd if you Spam World on Fire.... And never press 3.... It's actually very manageable if you use it the way you're suppose to....

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Synergize are here to add goodies with the use of multiple powers, even the less usefull. Micromanagement is here to prevent us to use a warframe the way anybody want.

You literally describing the same thing here.... You just give the one you like a different name and that's making it difficult to understand exactly what the real issue is here....

I mean there are some Synergies that I don't like but if I call them Micromanagement just because I don't like them that's gonna make it Difficult for others to understand what I'm talking about.

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

 

Well, i think that i can jump all your paragraphe since it just mixing synergy and micromanagement

If you insist..... 

But you can't say Ember doesn't have Ability Synergy just because you don't like the Synergy....

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Not new... Volt's passive :

Volt and who else?

See among the old Warframe's it's just him and even then it's useless outside of Meme Builds....

If you don't see there's an obvious difference between Every Warframe Released after Baruuk versus the ones that came before then I don't know anymore....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Well... that's pretty easy to answer: if there's a rework because something is massively used (like Ember or Ash or Mirage/Simulor)... the result will probably be much less good (but i admit there is some exception, like Saryn). If there's a rework because something is massively unused... the result will probably be much better.

I don't know about Ash and Ember because those were before my time but Mirage + Simulor was not a Massively Used Combo....

Mostly because the bulk of Mirage Players did not consist of Trolls hell bent on Blinding everyone.

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Like any AoE Warframe. Have you ever try Radial Disarme in Radiation Sorties ?

I don't remember.... I've done all kinds of Sorties in all kinds of methods.... But I don't remember any thing Specific about them.

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

You can't forget something you can't kill before it hit you :)

True.... But that's not what am talking about....it's not the enemies that people are forgetting.its the Ability.... You turn on World On Fire and the Never Think Of It again.... that is "Set and Forget". 

 

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Unless you mean that all toggle powers must be removed ? If it's the latter, you just don't need to fix something that isn't broken.

Not all them... Just the ones that don't require "Micromanaging" as you call it.... Right now the biggest offender of the "Set and Forget" Playstyle is Octavia.... I've been begging for a Rework for her for months now.

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

I also know that i need to keep the heat gauge as low as possible to not suck up my energy in few seconds. So i take the heat gauge out of the equation and i can spam 4 all my soul. KISS 😘

Doesn't 4 Cost 100 Energy To Cast ? 🤔 If spamming that is more energy Efficient than just Micromanaging Ember's Heat Gauge then maybe you're building and playing Ember Wrong. 

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Ho... with Gauss, i'm even more barbare, i just built around his 2 to be immortal with infinite energy with a big fat kuva ogris with napalm (one of my favorite current build). Why would i bother with a mystic redline ?

You don't use Redline 😳

You do realise Redline give Gauss all kinds of Weapon Buffs right ? 🤔 Why would you ignore it ?

1 hour ago, MacIntoc said:

Well... you just need to compare how much Ember was used before the WoF nerf (so before February 7th, 2018) and now. That should make an idea.

Usage Statistics are a nice Data Point but they don't tell you if something is good or not.... Merely that it's being used....

Last year the top 5 Most Used Warframe's were Wukong Prime, Excalibur Vanilla, Mesa Prime, Saryn Prime.... And I forget who was number 5....this doesn't tell us anything about the Quality of these Warframe's other than they are Viable.

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

 

I do think Saryn is OP for what it does, but then so too is Equinox and Mirage and several others.

Hardly.... Mirage and Equinox have to many Dependencies to achieve what Saryn does.... That is if you are talking about Sleight Of Hand and Maim.... 

24 minutes ago, Alpheus said:

That's not even possible without a rework to nearly every frame, otherwise it's a straight 50% nerf. How would you even convert something like Grendel's ground slam into a directional attack, or Rhino's stomp? Gara's wall shattering? Hell, even Oberon's grove is already directional but can be turned into a full circle with mods. Should its equation stop taking range into account? I suppose Frost's dome should be converted to an ice wall, Trinity's heal should only affect allies in front of her, and Banshee's quake should be turned into Sonic Boom 2.0.

Sounds like you've done half the work Already.... 🙂 So yeah... I'm sure it's manageable.

 

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Well... i just let the discuss here for the posterity, you're a better comic than me 🤣

6 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You don't use Redline 😳

You do realise Redline give Gauss all kinds of Weapon Buffs right ? 🤔 Why would you ignore it ?

Because i'm immortal, guy 😎

6 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Doesn't 4 Cost 100 Energy To Cast ? 🤔 If spamming that is more energy Efficient than just Micromanaging Ember's Heat Gauge then maybe you're building and playing Ember Wrong. 

No. Inferno costs 10 per mob, up to 10 mobs targeted (so between 0 and 100, depending on the number of targets).  Fireball costs 25 for a single target. And taking efficiency into account, you can lower the cost of Inferno up to 2.5 per mobs. So up to 25 energy for 10 mobs. Since Overheat add 100% damage, i must cast Infirno a second time to reach the same amount of damage for a total of 50 energy.  I let you the exercice to estimate the cost of micromanagement of heat gauge 🙂

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14 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Well... i just let the discuss here for the posterity, you're a better comic than me 🤣

I guess that's something....

15 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Because i'm immortal, guy 😎

Right... 🤔..

16 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

No. Inferno costs 10 per mob, up to 10 mobs targeted (so between 0 and 100, depending on the number of targets).  Fireball costs 25 for a single target. And taking efficiency into account, you can lower the cost of Inferno up to 2.5 per mobs. So up to 25 energy for 10 mobs. Since Overheat add 100% damage, i must cast Infirno a second time to reach the same amount of damage for a total of 50 energy.  I let you the exercice to estimate the cost of micromanagement of heat gauge 🙂

Oh yeah... I remember now....

Yeah I never had this Issue.... I also didn't have all that much fun with Ember either which explains why I forgot....

In any case....with The Augment that Drops Energy Orbs it was Fine.... She was like a hand me down version of Gauss.

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On 2021-03-22 at 1:13 PM, DeltaForce245 said:

I know the Saryn discussions have been done to death and nerfing or changing her would end up on an uproar for half the community. 
But there are people in the game that actually likes to have fun while playing instead just mindlessly grinding, and one Saryn player completely sucks the fun out of the game when you are there doing nothing for 10 minutes. I'm at the point where I just leave the session if there is a Saryn player, that's why I suggest just adding Frames Blacklist to keep both sides of the community happy.

Not a bad idea, but it would be a band-aid fix instead of the real underlying issue - warframe balance is trash.  No frame should be able to negate gameplay like that, for any level content.

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Oh ffs how is this thread still going.

No, no blacklisting framds, its a stupid idea you rolling ball of superglued cry babies.

 

Now that that is done can we please talk about more important stuff like perhaps giving oberon a glock, gauss the ability to steer freely while rushing with an augment and reverting the akarius nerf.

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On 2021-05-04 at 10:07 AM, Lutesque said:

You're trying to over simplify an obviously complicated issue....

It's one thing for one player to have an issue with how someone else players in a Different Game/Level/Difficulty etc.... In that case your Response applies....

But the "Play How You Want" Argument no longer applies when players are in the same squad all contributing torwards the same goal.... How your Team Mates play is going to directly affect your Experience and Results....

A player who wants to explore the Environment and Pick up all the Shineys going to impede the progress of someone who's actually completing mission objectives....

As ridiculous as it sounds.... Yes.... In this context this actually is a valid argument.... 

 

I'm fairly certain this is not True.... I've never encountered an actual since Complaint about Ember excessive nuking since her Rework....

Yeah.... This is actually a Valid Complaint.... This doesn't mean that Ash's Blade Storm can't be good.... All you did was point out who ever did this Rework did it badly....

I mean.... Are you happy with how Ash's Blade Storm works both before and After it's changes ?

I can't.... But atleast with Ember they did actually improve her.... Same goes for Wukong, Nezha, Booben etc.

There are just as many instances of DE Making things good as there are making things bad....

No, you're trying to make a simple issue complicated when it is completely simple.

People don't like the way other people play, they do not get the ability to dictate how other people play.  It is literally that simple.

This notion that the "black list saryn" crowd has a valid argument doesn't fly. An argument isn't valid until it is demonstrated and supported to be a valid argument.

if a player wants to stop and collect every single shiney, and do every single jungle gym in the orokin derelict, and open every corrupted vault while the other 3 players don't, then it is completely up to the 1 player to find someone like minded, and not scream "PLAY THE WAY I WANT!".

You play as a group, you don't dictate what said group does, what they play, or what weapons they use.

The only reason people whine about Saryn is because she literally gets more kills. That's it.  "Someone scored more kills than me booo!"

Does anyone here complain about Gara or Limbo being far and away better defense objective frames than Frost? Nope.

Does anyone complain that Gauss and Volt can run and complete capture/rescue faster than everyone else? Nope.

Does anyone complain that Inaros/Nidus have no issues running hijack since they don't rely on shields? Nope.

I can go on and on and on all day.  The fact of the matter is its literally a matter of people complaining not because there is any balance issue at hand, but because they don't get the self fulfillment of popping more NPC's than their teammates did.

This is why DE hasn't, and still won't give player's the ability to determine who can play what.  It is subjective, and toxic, to dictate what people can and cannot use.

  

On 2021-05-06 at 12:30 PM, TnaneverRisen said:

Not a bad idea, but it would be a band-aid fix instead of the real underlying issue - warframe balance is trash.  No frame should be able to negate gameplay like that, for any level content.


Nerf Baruuk. He has the highest DR of any warframe. Defeats the danger of having enemies.

Nerf revenant. Immortal warframe. Defeats the danger of enemies.

Nerf Ember/Saryn/Equinox. They map wipe too hard.

Nerf Limbo/Gara. Defense objectives dont die.

Nerf Chroma. He doesn't care about enemies nullifying abilities.

 

Like...the nonsense of "a frame shouldn't do X" is not a valid argument when the warframe is literally designed to do such a thing.

Edited by Aegni
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12 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Nerf Baruuk. He has the highest DR of any warframe. Defeats the danger of having enemies.

Nerf revenant. Immortal warframe. Defeats the danger of enemies.

Nerf Ember/Saryn/Equinox. They map wipe too hard.

Nerf Limbo/Gara. Defense objectives dont die.

Nerf Chroma. He doesn't care about enemies nullifying abilities.

Yes, unironically, they all need to be nerfed for those reasons, and possibly more.  Gameplay isn't interesting with no balance or challenge.  Might as well have an ultimate perfect-for-everything "cheat" warframe so you don't even need to swith between warframes for different missions.  Saves you a step so you can go to sleeping at the keyboard just a couple seconds faster.

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8 hours ago, TnaneverRisen said:

Yes, unironically, they all need to be nerfed for those reasons, and possibly more.  Gameplay isn't interesting with no balance or challenge.  Might as well have an ultimate perfect-for-everything "cheat" warframe so you don't even need to swith between warframes for different missions.  Saves you a step so you can go to sleeping at the keyboard just a couple seconds faster.

There is a reason developer's largely believe their consumer base should be ignored, and this statement you made, is part of it.

Its good DE generally ignores the player base.  Your ideas are disastrous.

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3 hours ago, Aegni said:

There is a reason developer's largely believe their consumer base should be ignored, and this statement you made, is part of it.

Its good DE generally ignores the player base.  Your ideas are disastrous.

Nope.  Having I-win buttons is disastrous.  You are just a simple-minded player who likes to mash a few buttons.

Over the years, DE has made numerous changes to warframe, and a lot of those changes echoed what many players have pointed out.  Are you just completely blind to that?  Maybe your next step is to call DE idiots for taking player feedback?  Please, continue posting for my entertainment.

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