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New players need Oberon, put him back!


captainHalide
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The words I've heard most from youtubers picking Warframe up for the first time are 'how do I heal?  I need to heal'.  Oberon is the best early-game option for that oft-sought healing when so many of the other options aren't yet available.  He also serves as a great demonstration of warframe's ability to mix frames into different roles, as Oberon can be built for CC and scaling damage as readily as he can be built for support.   Beyond that, he's also excellent for on-boarding new players to the experience of forging warframes, and also goes on to demonstrate that not all frames are found in boss fights. 

The only other frames that can heal are either locked behind quests, or way too deep into the star chart for early players to get to.  Trinity herself is locked behind a rather challenging boss fight.  New players won't be able to get to trin/wisp/garuda before needing some means of healing to get through some of the harder missions.    Locking Oberon behind railjack comes to the detriment of new and curious solo players, or small groups of friends trying warframe together for the first time.

Please, DE.  I love railjack, I love being given incentive to play railjack, I agree that more incentives should be given to play railjack.  But taking Oberon away from eximi means taking him away from the new players who desperately need him when they don't have any other healing available.  Frankly, I'd suggest one of the clantech frames into the place of Oberon in the Railjack drop tables if you want to give that kind of incentive - that will be significantly less disruptive to early-game players than this.

Edited by captainHalide
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6 hours ago, captainHalide said:

The words I've heard most from youtubers picking Warframe up for the first time are 'how do I heal?  I need to heal'.  Oberon is the best early-game option for that oft-sought healing when so many of the other options aren't yet available.  He also serves as a great demonstration of warframe's ability to mix frames into different roles, as Oberon can be built for CC and scaling damage as readily as he can be built for support.   Beyond that, he's also excellent for on-boarding new players to the experience of forging warframes, and also goes on to demonstrate that not all frames are found in boss fights. 

The only other frames that can heal are either locked behind quests, or way too deep into the star chart for early players to get to.  Trinity herself is locked behind a rather challenging boss fight.  New players won't be able to get to trin/wisp/garuda before needing some means of healing to get through some of the harder missions.    Locking Oberon behind railjack comes to the detriment of new and curious solo players, or small groups of friends trying warframe together for the first time.

Please, DE.  I love railjack, I love being given incentive to play railjack, I agree that more incentives should be given to play railjack.  But taking Oberon away from eximi means taking him away from the new players who desperately need him when they don't have any other healing available.  Frankly, I'd suggest one of the clantech frames into the place of Oberon in the Railjack drop tables if you want to give that kind of incentive - that will be significantly less disruptive to early-game players than this.

Wow, I didn't know this until I read your post. That's some top tier BS, right there.

 

 

1 hour ago, Proscriptor said:

new players can play railjack too. 

If they're in a clan, that is. You can't build a railjack inside the two RJ relays. 

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On 2021-03-23 at 3:25 AM, Proscriptor said:

new players can play railjack too. 

Since the point sailed higher over your head than the average Zephyr main, lemme spell it out for you. 

Go make a new account.  Tell me how long it takes you to kill some eximi VS creating a dojo, building it up to the drydock stage, completing the quest, getting outfitted with enough equipment to take on multiple veil defense rounds, then fully farming oberon from railjack.  No friends, no clan.  

I guarantee the first one will take a few hours and the latter will take you the better part of a week - and that's with you already knowing what you're aiming for and how to do it.  new players will go from taking a few days to see their first oberon drop to weeks or months.  Until then, or until they somehow manage to beat the Ambulas fight, new players would not get access to a frame that can heal, and wouldn't likely have any mods or abilities to tide them over.

Edited by captainHalide
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7 hours ago, captainHalide said:

Since the point sailed higher over your head than the average Zephyr main, lemme spell it out for you. 

Go make a new account.  Tell me how long it takes you to kill some eximi VS creating a dojo, building it up to the drydock stage, completing the quest, getting it outfitted for saturn/pluto, then fully farming oberon from railjack.  No friends, no clan.  

I guarantee the first one will take a few hours and the latter will take you the better part of a week - and that's with you already knowing what you're aiming for and how to do it.  new players will go from taking a few days to see their first oberon drop to weeks or months.  Until then, or until they somehow manage to beat the Ambulas fight, new players would not get access to a frame that can heal, and wouldn't likely have any mods or abilities to tide them over.

on the one hand, it does kinda suck that they've gone and made the goatlord harder to get, because he is an excellent frame, and a huge boon to new players, but on the other hand, you also dont need to slog through all that to get him. last i checked, soon as you get an archwing you can just hop into public railjack missions straight from the nav screen.

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On 2021-03-23 at 11:55 PM, Podge said:

on the one hand, it does kinda suck that they've gone and made the goatlord harder to get, because he is an excellent frame, and a huge boon to new players, but on the other hand, you also dont need to slog through all that to get him. last i checked, soon as you get an archwing you can just hop into public railjack missions straight from the nav screen.

On another hand. You inconvenienced EVERYONE, by diluting railjack drop table with fodder.

On 2021-03-23 at 10:03 PM, Teliko_Freedman said:

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Oberon invading my Railjack loot either.

So much other stuff I could've gotten instead.

Drop tables need organizing. Not stuff more trash into rot C.

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On 2021-03-24 at 1:03 AM, Teliko_Freedman said:

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Oberon invading my Railjack loot either.

So much other stuff I could've gotten instead.

The one good thing about Ash and Oberon being in RJ loot is that the Defense missions have them as rewards.  So there's thankfully no need to ever run those more than a single 5 wave time to clear up the node.  Assuming you have them both (I do).  I guess it means I'll never build a 2nd Ash for Helminth (I could build about 6 more Oberons right now), but that's a small price to pay for not having to run the worst defense map in the game inside a RAILJACK mission for drops.

That being said, Ash and especially Oberon shouldn't be RJ drops.  Defenses should be RJ modes, either.  I actively avoid defense on the regular starmap (unless I want to farm oxium).  

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On 2021-03-23 at 2:25 AM, Proscriptor said:

new players can play railjack too. 

new players are already overwhelmed as is. You want to further turn them off?

 

On 2021-04-05 at 3:30 AM, Wheelhouser said:

The one good thing about Ash and Oberon being in RJ loot is that the Defense missions have them as rewards.  So there's thankfully no need to ever run those more than a single 5 wave time to clear up the node.  Assuming you have them both (I do).  I guess it means I'll never build a 2nd Ash for Helminth (I could build about 6 more Oberons right now), but that's a small price to pay for not having to run the worst defense map in the game inside a RAILJACK mission for drops.

That being said, Ash and especially Oberon shouldn't be RJ drops.  Defenses should be RJ modes, either.  I actively avoid defense on the regular starmap (unless I want to farm oxium).  

poppycock! There is no good thing about drop table dilution. Especially stuff people had no problems with to begin with! Relocating old stuff (which no one was complaining about), and putting it into the new game mode further exacerbate the accusation that the game has no real content. Nautilus and carmine penta are a good example of enticing people to do the new railjack content. But above all else, this change literally made no one happy. Vets don't want more fodder trash being given to them in an already tedious game mode, and Newbies now have even less early frame option to pick for. It's plain illogical. It'd make sense if the defense map gave out parts to a new frame. But oberon and ash, are not new. And again, no one was complaining about them.

 

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Oberon is the best intermediate frame and was up until this point the easiest to farm. I do not see how putting him into "endgame" reward slots on a game mode I guarantee will die in a year, when most players who can get to that level of the game have already had him for years was even on the table. I mean, it's entirely possible that they just did this as a placeholder for Sevigoth, but even then, I really hate Warframe farms that are intentionally relegated to gamemodes like Harrow, Baruuk, and Hildryn.

Warframe's loot has become worse and worse with each passing month, to the point where the game is rapidly losing its luster. Look, I just bought Borderlands 3, and in a few days they're dropping a randomizer mode into the game. Soon I'm going to have infinite enemies and guns to go through, and meanwhile Warframe is sort of just... there. I know U30 is coming for all of us at once, and that this game is free, but sometimes, I really wish it wasn't. Maybe I'm just getting to the point of diminishing returns with this game, or maybe I'm just burnt out, but it really does feel like any feedback we give at this point is either totally misunderstood by the devs or intentionally misconstrued.

When the players say "we want more Warframe in Railjack," what we don't mean is "make us do a 2 minute railjack mission, then have us just do a standard Corpus Ship defense." What we mean is "give us a point that we need to defend with our ship from invading attackers." When we say "put in spy," we don't mean "have us do a spy mission with a railjack taxi," we mean "have us use the railjack as a means to create a diversion, and have us keep a 'distraction' meter up." But that's a topic for another time.

It's counterintuitive to put two new player friendly frames who have been random drops everywhere for a long time now at the absolute "end" of the map. I'm honestly shocked there are no Assassination missions on Earth or Saturn Proxima, where it would logically make sense to relocate those frames to. Instead, you need to go out of your way and hope your crew is willing to do it with you. Even weirder is that Ash and Oberon are both solo-centric frames, and they're gated behind a mode that either requires a ton of investment in making it single player or requires you to actually have a reliable team.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

Oberon is the best intermediate frame and was up until this point the easiest to farm. I do not see how putting him into "endgame" reward slots on a game mode I guarantee will die in a year, when most players who can get to that level of the game have already had him for years was even on the table. I mean, it's entirely possible that they just did this as a placeholder for Sevigoth, but even then, I really hate Warframe farms that are intentionally relegated to gamemodes like Harrow, Baruuk, and Hildryn.

Warframe's loot has become worse and worse with each passing month, to the point where the game is rapidly losing its luster. Look, I just bought Borderlands 3, and in a few days they're dropping a randomizer mode into the game. Soon I'm going to have infinite enemies and guns to go through, and meanwhile Warframe is sort of just... there. I know U30 is coming for all of us at once, and that this game is free, but sometimes, I really wish it wasn't. Maybe I'm just getting to the point of diminishing returns with this game, or maybe I'm just burnt out, but it really does feel like any feedback we give at this point is either totally misunderstood by the devs or intentionally misconstrued.

When the players say "we want more Warframe in Railjack," what we don't mean is "make us do a 2 minute railjack mission, then have us just do a standard Corpus Ship defense." What we mean is "give us a point that we need to defend with our ship from invading attackers." When we say "put in spy," we don't mean "have us do a spy mission with a railjack taxi," we mean "have us use the railjack as a means to create a diversion, and have us keep a 'distraction' meter up." But that's a topic for another time.

It's counterintuitive to put two new player friendly frames who have been random drops everywhere for a long time now at the absolute "end" of the map. I'm honestly shocked there are no Assassination missions on Earth or Saturn Proxima, where it would logically make sense to relocate those frames to. Instead, you need to go out of your way and hope your crew is willing to do it with you. Even weirder is that Ash and Oberon are both solo-centric frames, and they're gated behind a mode that either requires a ton of investment in making it single player or requires you to actually have a reliable team.

When we built the coolship. We except to do a lot of activity inside the ship. Instead. We got 70% normal mission and the rest in the ship itself.  Also I like the suggestion of having bosses in proxima.

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Meant it more as a joke.  When selecting a RAILJACK mission, I don't ever want to play through a standard defense mission (even 5 waves), so I definitely don't want to play through a 20 wave defense.  On the worst defense map in the game.  So putting worthless (to me) rewards behind 20 waves means I never, ever feel compelled to do content I don't want to do.

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Also worth noting that the farthest back part of Oberon is in Veil Proxima, so it's very much not new-player accessible. This would be fine if it were a frame like Harrow that's highly technical and very powerful, but he's not. Oberon is one of the key early frames for new players, and is really important.

If you really want to put a frame in Railjack, put Xaku in; they fits thematically, and they're a fairly technical frame with a high investment minimum that has no business being as early as Deimos.

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1 hour ago, LeakingAmps said:

Also worth noting that the farthest back part of Oberon is in Veil Proxima, so it's very much not new-player accessible. This would be fine if it were a frame like Harrow that's highly technical and very powerful, but he's not. Oberon is one of the key early frames for new players, and is really important.

If you really want to put a frame in Railjack, put Xaku in; they fits thematically, and they're a fairly technical frame with a high investment minimum that has no business being as early as Deimos.

harrow is "highly technical and very powerful" and oberon isn't? is that the idea here?

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5 hours ago, Proscriptor said:

harrow is "highly technical and very powerful" and oberon isn't? is that the idea here?

I think it's just an example putting a more vet oriented frame in railjack. Something that's more build and gameplay demanding, like harrow. I also agree with it anyways cause screw defection as a game mode.

Edited by (NSW)Dangruff
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Oberon's healing is passive. Harrow's relies on your ability to kill enemies despite your teammates.

Obereon's abilities have short cast times, and long durations. He also only has 2 abilities that should be up at all times.

Meanwhile, Harrow's abilities have long cast times, with shorter durations, you have to manage not 1, but 2 resource pools for casting, and have 3 buff timers to keep track of, plus headshots are important.

Oberon's buffs and healing are set-and-forget for the most part. Harrow's are far more powerful, but require significant player input the whole time.

Harrow is significantly more powerful than Oberon (He has hard CC, Oberon's CC is soft, and shorter duration; he can make energy, Oberon can't; he can boost DPS, Oberon can only do that with an augment for a lesser boost; he provides invulnerability, Oberon provides +armor; he heals much faster than Oberon does as well.), at the expense of being much harder to wield (Oberon: Press 3, press 2, don't run out of energy; Harrow: Press 3, don't die while you channel the cast to the sweet spot, kill to regain energy, press 1 a few times on enemies, press 2, kill more enemies, press 4, kill more enemies, it's time to do your 3 again shortly).

So, please explain how Oberon is as powerful as Harrow, and Harrow is just as easy to play.

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On 2021-03-23 at 12:41 PM, Proscriptor said:

Everyone needs to be in a clan.

some day

On 2021-04-07 at 11:43 PM, LeakingAmps said:

If you really want to put a frame in Railjack, put Xaku in; they fits thematically, and they're a fairly technical frame with a high investment minimum that has no business being as early as Deimos.

Thematically: how? Till we get some void storms or anything like that they are just ships. It fits Deimos lore.

As for "early as Deimos" - I think it's fine place however I don't mind moving it into "things I won't probably touch" as I have them.

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14 hours ago, LeakingAmps said:

Oberon's buffs and healing are set-and-forget for the most part.

This is the one part of your post I've got to disagree with. I've seen so many oberon players die I can't even be bothered to try and count it. And I'm not even talking about just new players but vets in long MOT runs. :facepalm:

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22 hours ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

This is the one part of your post I've got to disagree with. I've seen so many oberon players die I can't even be bothered to try and count it. And I'm not even talking about just new players but vets in long MOT runs. :facepalm:

What does people dying have to do with how easy his healing is to use? You turn it on, and it runs until you turn it off, get nullified, enter a reset zone, or run out of energy. You don't need to *do* anything to keep it running. That has nothing to do with how effective it is at keeping you alive; that falls under the purview of how powerful it is.

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On 2021-04-08 at 12:56 PM, Proscriptor said:

harrow isn't "vet oriented", "technical", "very powerful" or whatever compared to oberon. these qualifiers are not the objective reality. 

Harrow's powers require more knowledge of the game and more practice to use effectively.  Maybe that's subjective rather than objective, but this isn't a math test, it's a video game.

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