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New players need Oberon, put him back!


captainHalide
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the thing is

u dont need  railjack to play railjack

u dont need a drydock to mod ur plexus

and new playes r going to play railjack regardless of weather they r ready or not 

also on pc, doesnt relays have drydocks now?

Edited by (PSN)Spider_Enigma
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

the thing is u dont need  railjack to play railjack u dont need a drydock to mod ur plexus and new playes r going to play railjack regardless of weather they r ready or not 

also on pc, doesnt relays have drydocks now?

There's no onboarding experience for railjacks, new players aren't all going to just randomly jump in on that.  Beyond that, playing railjack without having your own ship is *extremely* hit or miss.  Beyond THAT, the parts only drop on B rotations, which would require new players to stick around on endless modes - AND they only have a 10% drop chance, which could take them dozens of runs, which is extremely unlikely to happen without having their own railjack.  And, on top of ALL that, the Neuroptics only drop in the Veil, which boasts enemies far more powerful than new players would be able to deal with once, much less for multiple rotations dozens of times!

Compare that, once again, to random drops from any eximi unit, which can be found about halfway through the earth chart.

The argument 'new players can technically sort of play railjack, if they know where to find it, and happen to get a good ship, and stick around for multiple rotations, and get carried' is utterly invalid.  In fact, I'm now pretty sure this makes Oberon and Ash the hardest frames in the game to get.  It honestly sounds like it would be easier to get their primed variants, once they come back in rotation, than the standard ones.

Edited by captainHalide
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not having the update, I had no idea Oberon moved from eximus to RJ - that seems like a completely irrational move- people grinding railjack are unlikely candidates to need or want oberon pieces.

as for healing frame though, oberon is not exactly the only option:   healing available elsewhere - Gara, Inaros, wisp, trinity, hydroid, saryn, revenant, protea, harrow, garuda, grendel, equinox, and I'm sure i'm missing a bunch of things like operator arcanes, methods of increasing health orbs (nekros, nezha, etc...) .  and thats not even counting the easiest method for any new player - health pads.

 

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5 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

as for healing frame though, oberon is not exactly the only option

Nobody said that.

He was, however, the earliest "actual healer" Frame (in addition to his kit just being so dang useful in general / IMO fun).

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

healing available elsewhere - Gara, Inaros, wisp, trinity, hydroid, saryn, revenant, protea, harrow, garuda, grendel, equinox

Wait, how does Gara heal?

Anyway, some of these may have decent self-healing, but the Squad healing aspects, if even present, often just don't really work in practice.
Like, believe me, I tried to make a Squad healing Inaros work, but without invincibility on the "health stations" he provides ... nah, son.
And getting someone to stand in your Hydroid's healing puddle, yeah, that's similarly not gonna happen in ~99% of missions.

Also, some you mentioned are from WAY late into the game's progression, which again is what the topic is mainly about,
new players having lost access to a great early healer (and more) Frame for no good reason.

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

and thats not even counting the easiest method for any new player - health pads

New players using up their limited resources on consumables is not my first thought for "easy" healing, TBH.

Edited by NinjaZeku
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20 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

the thing is

u dont need  railjack to play railjack

u dont need a drydock to mod ur plexus

and new playes r going to play railjack regardless of weather they r ready or not 

also on pc, doesnt relays have drydocks now?

How many game modes do we have that have little to player activity on? Infested salvage, sanctuary onslaught, defection, interception, disruption, and oh yeah, Archwing. You tell that headache of a instruction to a newbie who later learns the grind for that frame was a quarter less of a hassle that it is now, and they'll outright quit. Going down the grindfarm of this game as a newb is reserved for the most desperate or alt vets.

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8 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

not having the update, I had no idea Oberon moved from eximus to RJ - that seems like a completely irrational move- people grinding railjack are unlikely candidates to need or want oberon pieces.

as for healing frame though, oberon is not exactly the only option:   healing available elsewhere - Gara, Inaros, wisp, trinity, hydroid, saryn, revenant, protea, harrow, garuda, grendel, equinox, and I'm sure i'm missing a bunch of things like operator arcanes, methods of increasing health orbs (nekros, nezha, etc...) .  and thats not even counting the easiest method for any new player - health pads.

 

out of the frames you mentioned. Only Inaros is a straight up good and easy healer. The rest are quest frames or are stuck in mid to high areas o the chart. And then theirs the resources needed to build them. Oberon is also bog standard when it came to mat requirements.

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At some point I wonder how often DE actually listens to feedback. Assuming its not all cherry picking. Even the old vets can't be assed to assess this and the rest of the railjack flaws. And they're moving, and telling their own base to move on to other games.

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@offtopic: this is yet another topic discussing tier lists but no one supporting tier list classification.

@topic: just switch with volt, drops of volt parts go to railjack and oberon parts goes to the beginning of the game.
Volt is an endgame frame and oberon is a starting frame, and everyone lived happily ever after.

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On 2021-04-06 at 9:28 PM, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

It's a lose lose. 

New players can't get Oberon.

Old players don't need more Oberon.

maybe the DE has some future plan for oberon and ash,
we just don't have information to quote errors, we don't know.
the topic would be more interesting if it were questions like:

*why is oberon and ash on railjack rewards?
*is there a special reason for oberon and ash in railjack rewards?

note: moderation and DE never answer or close umpopular technical topics

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5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

He was, however, the earliest "actual healer" Frame (in addition to his kit just being so dang useful in general / IMO fun).

1 hour ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

Only Inaros is a straight up good and easy healer.

I admit I didn't read the OP fully - he said "how do I heal - i need to heal" and only later said Oberon could be built for support - so I had quickly read it as "how does one heal oneself" having missed the second "built for support".

The earliest healer I had was Trinity and trin is far easier to quickly heal - but now she is way up on the star chart whereas when I first got her she was still on Ceres as the easiest, early support frame.

5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Wait, how does Gara heal?

mending splinters

5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

I tried to make a Squad healing Inaros work, but without invincibility on the "health stations" he provides

Scarab swarm works to heal as an AOE,  and easy health stations are to just partially eat a target using his 2 - i'm guessing these are the health stations you refer to? Or did you mean enemies under the effect of scarab swarm. The half eaten ones are great health stations as squadmates are invulnerable while eating them, and when setting them up you can pull the enemies out of the line of fire and tuck them in the corners- but of course they need to know that so it may require co-ordination.

The best healing ability on Inaros is Blood Alter - but as that requires Helminth it DEFINITELY fails the "early game" requirment.  Which now that I think of it of course means any frame can heal (or with trins well of life subsumed)

 

In any event, as I mentioned, I thought the OP was stating youboobers were wondering how to heal themselves - but even with that OR as a support frame, I fully agree with the OP that moving Oberon to railjack is an illogical decision.

Edited by (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg
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1 hour ago, Famecans said:

maybe the DE has some future plan for oberon and ash,
we just don't have information to quote errors, we don't know.
the topic would be more interesting if it were questions like:

*why is oberon and ash on railjack rewards?
*is there a special reason for oberon and ash in railjack rewards?

note: moderation and DE never answer or close umpopular technical topics

Basically they're being selective cowards, again.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

-snip-

As much as I think the move needs explanation at least, and most likely a revert, there's no need to devbash. They're people too. They will make mistakes, and there's no need to attack them for it.

Edited by LeakingAmps
typo
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18 minutes ago, LeakingAmps said:

As much as I think the move needs explanation at least, and most likely a revert, there's no need to devbash. They're people too. They will make mistakes, and there's no need to attack them for it.

They barely or never address issues unless drama comes to it. Don't be surprised when after years of mediocre performance, people grown impatient.

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4 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

mending splinters

Ah right, I forgot about that one, oops.

 (Though 3 Health per second is ... indeed somewhat forgettable, heh. And targeted buffs, oh, my favorite.)

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

Scarab swarm works to heal as an AOE

Except it doesn't, because the affected enemies get killed by your Squad very easily / quickly, like I said.

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

his 2 - i'm guessing these are the health stations you refer to?

I meant both his 2 and 4.

One is self-serve, one is passive AoE healing.

Neither survives long.

5 hours ago, Famecans said:

just switch with volt, drops of volt parts go to railjack and oberon parts goes to the beginning of the game.
Volt is an endgame frame and oberon is a starting frame, and everyone lived happily ever after.

I assume this is a joke? If so, you may want to add some identifier to your post, like a /s or whatever.

5 hours ago, Famecans said:

@offtopic: this is yet another topic discussing tier lists but no one supporting tier list classification.

Not sure what you're talking about, or how it applies to this topic.

We're not arguing about what Frames are better (for the most part at least, but I guess opinions do slip in now and then, heh).
This topic is primarily about how the Oberon and Ash drop changes are bad for both new and old players, and should be reversed.

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On 2021-04-12 at 2:22 AM, captainHalide said:

It honestly sounds like it would be easier to get their primed variants, once they come back in rotation, than the standard ones.

Even with Oberon being vaulted (unsure about the rarity/price of ash prime) it'll be easier to get Oberon Prime by running fissures and selling parts than to get Oberon by running railjack defense. Granted, this is something I can say for a lot of frames, not just Oberon, but it is something to consider.

For a new free-to-play player, your first boss encounters will probably be mercury, venus, and mars, dropping frost, rhino, and excal. You won't be getting access to vay hek til MR5, which might take some time given a new player's lack of weapon slots. You might encounter parts of harrow or even ivara if you're lucky, but neither will be fully available until later in the game. Oberon and ash both drop while new players are still learning the game; it might take you awhile to get a full set but you'd be able to start farming them very early on. So, like others have said, these frames are relatively easy grabs for newer players and introduces them to new frames. Oberon will be especially simple, possibly even dropping for players without them having to run missions just for farming him. He's a very balanced warframe, capable of doing quite a lot depending on how you build him, and doesn't need any rare mods in order to make a functional build(I'm sure others build him different, but my oberon doesn't use any corrupted mods and only uses the phoenix renewal augment, mainly as added teammate support in arbitrations). Soft CC, healing, armor, scaling dmg, and the bleedout reduction is a nice touch too. If you're playing solo, he's a great way to be able to stay in the fight when your weapons are undermodded(whether due to lack of mods, endo, or just mod capacity), and if you're playing with friends who are all new he's a great early support frame(which, by the way, Oberon is the first proper support frame you're likely to get; I suppose Gara might be the second, but new players may not be equipped for high-level bounties for some time yet).

Even given all that, if DE was dead-set on putting Oberon and Ash in railjack, that's OK I guess. But here's the thing: Now eximus enemies don't drop anything. Extra affinity, sure, but other than that they're normal enemies but harder. Manics are even worse; they're annoying for new and old players alike and there won't even be a point in killing them aside from getting them out of your face now(No, the 1 in ~400 chance of getting the four riders stance doesn't count).

Finally, the ramifications of putting these warframes in veil proxima, for new players, is this: A new player, in order to even be able to go on these missions, must first have an archwing. This is a relatively early quest, as it's the next quest after once awake. When they get the archwing, they'll have no mods for their archwing or archgun, so they're not really ready to engage in archwing content. Sure, 98% of railjack doesn't involve archwing, but being that vulnerable in your archwing when going to crewships/points of interest will likely make railjack less fun as a whole. Now, to get to veil proxima, they need intrinsics 7; they now need to do railjack missions for the intrinsic grind. During this, they won't get to choose which missions they do unless they're with a friend, as they won't have their own railjack yet. You *could* be farming out the other parts you need while getting those intrinsics, but people will probably shy away from defense as it's a long gamemode with rewards that most of us don't care about anymore. Then, unless they get taxi'd, they've also got to clear out all the previous proxima nodes just to gain access to veil proxima(come to think of it, since they'll likely need to enter recruiting chat to get taxi'd to defense nodes, they might as well just start with the taxi). Once they're in veil and ready to get the hardest-to-reach parts of the warframe they're after, they're still going to need a taxi, and probably a carry, to deal with the very high-level enemies(for a new player at least) present in veil.

I've rambled but tl;dr: Oberon and Ash are no longer new-player accessible, you should care because Oberon is the first support frame new players can get

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4 hours ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Even with Oberon being vaulted (unsure about the rarity/price of ash prime) it'll be easier to get Oberon Prime by running fissures and selling parts than to get Oberon by running railjack defense. Granted, this is something I can say for a lot of frames, not just Oberon, but it is something to consider.

For a new free-to-play player, your first boss encounters will probably be mercury, venus, and mars, dropping frost, rhino, and excal. You won't be getting access to vay hek til MR5, which might take some time given a new player's lack of weapon slots. You might encounter parts of harrow or even ivara if you're lucky, but neither will be fully available until later in the game. Oberon and ash both drop while new players are still learning the game; it might take you awhile to get a full set but you'd be able to start farming them very early on. So, like others have said, these frames are relatively easy grabs for newer players and introduces them to new frames. Oberon will be especially simple, possibly even dropping for players without them having to run missions just for farming him. He's a very balanced warframe, capable of doing quite a lot depending on how you build him, and doesn't need any rare mods in order to make a functional build(I'm sure others build him different, but my oberon doesn't use any corrupted mods and only uses the phoenix renewal augment, mainly as added teammate support in arbitrations). Soft CC, healing, armor, scaling dmg, and the bleedout reduction is a nice touch too. If you're playing solo, he's a great way to be able to stay in the fight when your weapons are undermodded(whether due to lack of mods, endo, or just mod capacity), and if you're playing with friends who are all new he's a great early support frame(which, by the way, Oberon is the first proper support frame you're likely to get; I suppose Gara might be the second, but new players may not be equipped for high-level bounties for some time yet).

Even given all that, if DE was dead-set on putting Oberon and Ash in railjack, that's OK I guess. But here's the thing: Now eximus enemies don't drop anything. Extra affinity, sure, but other than that they're normal enemies but harder. Manics are even worse; they're annoying for new and old players alike and there won't even be a point in killing them aside from getting them out of your face now(No, the 1 in ~400 chance of getting the four riders stance doesn't count).

Finally, the ramifications of putting these warframes in veil proxima, for new players, is this: A new player, in order to even be able to go on these missions, must first have an archwing. This is a relatively early quest, as it's the next quest after once awake. When they get the archwing, they'll have no mods for their archwing or archgun, so they're not really ready to engage in archwing content. Sure, 98% of railjack doesn't involve archwing, but being that vulnerable in your archwing when going to crewships/points of interest will likely make railjack less fun as a whole. Now, to get to veil proxima, they need intrinsics 7; they now need to do railjack missions for the intrinsic grind. During this, they won't get to choose which missions they do unless they're with a friend, as they won't have their own railjack yet. You *could* be farming out the other parts you need while getting those intrinsics, but people will probably shy away from defense as it's a long gamemode with rewards that most of us don't care about anymore. Then, unless they get taxi'd, they've also got to clear out all the previous proxima nodes just to gain access to veil proxima(come to think of it, since they'll likely need to enter recruiting chat to get taxi'd to defense nodes, they might as well just start with the taxi). Once they're in veil and ready to get the hardest-to-reach parts of the warframe they're after, they're still going to need a taxi, and probably a carry, to deal with the very high-level enemies(for a new player at least) present in veil.

I've rambled but tl;dr: Oberon and Ash are no longer new-player accessible, you should care because Oberon is the first support frame new players can get

Well written.

If people didn't archwing then. They won't like it now. Plus new players are turned off by unnecessary grind walls for old content.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, great.  DE has left this as unanswered as people asking to have mending dash do scaling heals after the massive nerf it got.  

Not feeling the 'devs listening to the playerbase' love that we used to get.  Kind of disheartening.

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On 2021-03-23 at 6:28 AM, captainHalide said:

The words I've heard most from youtubers picking Warframe up for the first time are 'how do I heal?  I need to heal'. 

Ah yes.... That takes me back... Dying all the time with my Mag 🙂... Good times...

On 2021-04-07 at 2:28 AM, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

It's a lose lose. 

New players can't get Oberon.

Old players don't need more Oberon.

This is the most well written Post I've seen this week....

Clear, Thoughtful.... Accurate and Brief..... 

10/10.... 👍

 

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I don't understand why people keep saying Oberon is essential. I haven't used him before being like MR 20 or something like that, the game is so easy mode these days all you need is rolling your face on the keyboard and stuff dies anyway. Healing is completely unnecessary.

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10 hours ago, sixmille said:

I don't understand why people keep saying Oberon is essential. I haven't used him before being like MR 20 or something like that, the game is so easy mode these days all you need is rolling your face on the keyboard and stuff dies anyway. Healing is completely unnecessary.

He isn't, really. I guess the thread is about the first run through the Star Chart and the upper levels of open world bounties.

 

Was a good alternative to Rhino, though. Now there will just be more early Rhinos, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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