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Railjack is unplayable, half the matches bug, from something minor like some players not being able to interact with objects like consoles, to game breaking like not being able to access waypoints to start mission sub objectives.

This could NOT have gone undetected in testing, these bugs are too prevalent and too game breaking as to not have raised red flags.

It what 3 or 4 hotfixes patches in and the buggs are still there.

Does your reputation not matter, like at all? DE has become synonymous with "Unplayable on Release"

Edited by xxvaderxxar
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14 minutes ago, xxvaderxxar said:

This could NOT have gone undetected in testing

Ahhh see this is where you've made a logical error.

DE does not test their stuff very much prior to launching. WE do the testing. Warframe has been in public beta for nearly 10 years.

Edited by Leqesai
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If you're testing a water dam, all the theoretical testing and preparation and drills won't matter until the dam is in place and operating in real life. 

DE needs the real life data to catch things they may not catch while testing it with a smaller handful of people. This is with many games.

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26 minutes ago, xxvaderxxar said:

Railjack is unplayable, half the matches bug, from something minor like some players not being able to interact with objects like consoles, to game breaking like not being able to access waypoints to start mission sub objectives.

This could NOT have gone undetected in testing, these bugs are too prevalent and too game breaking as to not have raised red flags.

It certainly hasn't been perfect for me but I've had none of the issues you describe. I've had things like no check to vote on the next mission when I was a client and some other one off things, but it hasn't been 'unplayable' for me. I certainly won't proclaim this to be a flawless update by any means and some things still need balancing, but my experience has been far different from yours.

It's almost like things can be different for people with a different OS/Hardware/internet connection or something. I mean maybe, just maybe, someone that was checking things doesn't have a clone of your computer, your teammate's computer, and the connection between you.

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40 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you're testing a water dam, all the theoretical testing and preparation and drills won't matter until the dam is in place and operating in real life. 

DE needs the real life data to catch things they may not catch while testing it with a smaller handful of people. This is with many games.

that's what beta testers are for. But DE, even when they use beta testers, only tests things over a weekend with random people who aren't trying to break the game and push it to its limit.

 

Other games use beta testers. DE seems unwilling to do that or even try some sort of QA.

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28 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

It certainly hasn't been perfect for me but I've had none of the issues you describe. I've had things like no check to vote on the next mission when I was a client and some other one off things, but it hasn't been 'unplayable' for me. I certainly won't proclaim this to be a flawless update by any means and some things still need balancing, but my experience has been far different from yours.

It's almost like things can be different for people with a different OS/Hardware/internet connection or something. I mean maybe, just maybe, someone that was checking things doesn't have a clone of your computer, your teammate's computer, and the connection between you.

oh well if it hasn't happened for you, no need for testing! Everything is fine, no need to worry people. Hobie's not having the problems, stand down.

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46 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you're testing a water dam, all the theoretical testing and preparation and drills won't matter until the dam is in place and operating in real life. 

DE needs the real life data to catch things they may not catch while testing it with a smaller handful of people. This is with many games.

This is BS, im a software developer, Testing is there for a reason.

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7 minutes ago, xxvaderxxar said:

Testing is there for a reason.

And you're right. Its there for a reason...

 

... However, DE is not your company. Therefore, their testing standards are not your testing standards.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

And you're right. Its there for a reason...

 

... However, DE is not your company. Therefore, their testing standards are not your testing standards.

Well yes, that is the point of this thread..., them not being up to many people basic standards...

They've become a meme, "Bugframe". Dont know how many players have said this to me already.

Edited by xxvaderxxar
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This will always, always be an issue with client-side hosting. You can never test for every scenario. Each system is different, so the games they host can have variables that will cause something to go wrong. Because of this, it's virtually impossible to test for everything. The tests might be running smoothly on their side. They might be even test it on multiple system, from the low end toasters to the high end gaming setup, and will not be able to account for everything. It's only when the patch hit the wider audience that a greater range of bugs and other issues can be detected,  

This is not necessarily a criticism or defense of the devs. Just an observation. Client-side hosting does comes with some advantage, like being much cheaper than having dedicated servers, but there's always a cost to cutting corners.  

Still, DE really really should have ran an update this big through their public test environment. Doing that has panned out rather well for them before, so I have no idea why they didn't do it again. It would have helped their final product better. 

 

Edited by Bakaguya-sama
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5 hours ago, xxvaderxxar said:

This could NOT have gone undetected in testing

bold of you to assume DE tests their updates, since clearly they have no intention of ever taking the test cluster seriously.

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hace 5 horas, xxvaderxxar dijo:

Railjack is unplayable, half the matches bug, from something minor like some players not being able to interact with objects like consoles, to game breaking like not being able to access waypoints to start mission sub objectives.

This could NOT have gone undetected in testing, these bugs are too prevalent and too game breaking as to not have raised red flags.

It what 3 or 4 hotfixes patches in and the buggs are still there.

Does your reputation not matter, like at all? DE has become synonymous with "Unplayable on Release"

Welcome to early access  tm, how may we help you in this wonderful day? 

Jokes aside, they test this things out, but unless we as players have exactly  the same pc config(hardware/soft running) they can't validate. If hosts alt+f4 because X or Y at second Z in the countdown they can't validate. 

If npc fly into this zone in space they might bug somthing and can't be detected. Etc etc etc

Remember even if they put all their staff  to bug search, they cant match the amount of hours the comunity can put in.

For entering the blocked secondary or main entrance try using the railjack catapult, I found it to work.

Keep calm and if you finde this bugs totally experience breacking , play new features after 1 or 2 versions (basicaly when consoles get it) if you want to experience the bleeding edge  i'd recomend solo, tends to be a bit more stable than public.

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5 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

oh well if it hasn't happened for you, no need for testing! Everything is fine, no need to worry people. Hobie's not having the problems, stand down.

That wasn't my point.

Testing is difficult. Variations in OS, hardware, other software, and so on add more variables that are hard to test for or even know about. So things can slip through because they don't happen for everyone's combination.

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2 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

That wasn't my point.

Testing is difficult. Variations in OS, hardware, other software, and so on add more variables that are hard to test for or even know about. So things can slip through because they don't happen for everyone's combination.

that's just being intentionally obtuse. For me, DE not testing this stuff with beta testers and making PC the beta testers is the real problem. A lot of these bugs could have been hammered out. That's why you have players beta test, and not for two or three days. And you get people that are going to look for problems, that will tax the system.

 

Other games have no problem with this, but DE seems allergic to beta testing anything. That said, this roll out was significantly improved over the original Railjack roll out. So I have to give them props for that. And as long as I see them pushing out hotfixes for the content they implemented I am not particularly angry, it just annoys me when people say "oh this isn't a problem for me though." 

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They simply can't test in the scale that they need to, it's been proven time and time again. From differences in hardware and software configurations, to network and latency situations that they don't cover, to simply not having a net large enough to catch enough bugs.

If only they had some form of Test Cluster, that they've used before and they could've used again.

It honestly baffles me that they didn't do a weekend Test Cluster, like they did for Steel Path and Deimos Arcana. It would've helped them catch bugs and get the very common feedback earlier. And it's not like there's any story or content stuff to spoil, all of that is coming with Tempestarii.

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Unlike Consoles. PC does not have a clear hardware standard. For example the game may work if you run an intel system, but on AMD it’s literally unplayable or it doesn’t work in very niche PC setups. Plus, Warframe does not have dedicated game servers so your gameplay experience in multiplayer is a huge gamble. Your gameplay experience is at the mercy of the host’s hardware power. If your host runs on a potato you know for sure that your game will be filled with game breaking bugs.

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48 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Unlike Consoles. PC does not have a clear hardware standard. For example the game may work if you run an intel system, but on AMD it’s literally unplayable or it doesn’t work in very niche PC setups. Plus, Warframe does not have dedicated game servers so your gameplay experience in multiplayer is a huge gamble. Your gameplay experience is at the mercy of the host’s hardware power. If your host runs on a potato you know for sure that your game will be filled with game breaking bugs.

that's why you have beta test servers set up and have the players beta test. Other games don't have the kind of bugs or problems warframe has for that reason. It's no excuse.

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The worst bugs I've run into have been non-disappearing waypoints, lack of an "accept mission" button during mission votes and a few instances of losing my mission objectives UI. I may be grading this on a curve, but... Well, this is still miles better than the launch of Railjack. I've never had so many hard crashes, deadlocks, softlocks, broken visuals, broking mission scripts, disconnects and instances of lost progression. That was so bad I had to give up on it for a few days until it was made playable. Cyberpunk 2077, eat your heart out. Then again, that update was simply not ready for release when it released, so...

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2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

that's why you have beta test servers set up and have the players beta test. Other games don't have the kind of bugs or problems warframe has for that reason. It's no excuse.

I’ll give you one good example that even a delayed game with VERY STRICT QA still has technical issues plaguing it for months and that is... Cyberpunk 2077. And that game is a single player game. Warframe on the other hand is multiplayer, so there are a lot of fragile parts that a single interruption breaks the entire game.

No amount of QA can beat large scale public testing that managed to find hidden bug not discovered by the QA team in minutes.

Edited by DrivaMain
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Unlike Consoles. PC does not have a clear hardware standard. For example the game may work if you run an intel system, but on AMD it’s literally unplayable or it doesn’t work in very niche PC setups. Plus, Warframe does not have dedicated game servers so your gameplay experience in multiplayer is a huge gamble. Your gameplay experience is at the mercy of the host’s hardware power. If your host runs on a potato you know for sure that your game will be filled with game breaking bugs.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

If for instance latency might be an issue, you make a test FORCING latency, you dont randomly wait for someone to come up with a report of having issues due to latency.These bugs are the clear result of no testing like at all.

 

38 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I’ll give you one good example that even a delayed game with VERY STRICT QA still has technical issues plaguing it for months and that is... Cyberpunk 2077. And that game is a single player game. Warframe on the other hand is multiplayer, so there are a lot of fragile parts that a single interruption breaks the entire game.

No amount of QA can beat large scale public testing that managed to find hidden bug not discovered by the QA team in minutes.

Cyberpunk is a know example for cutting corners, shipping before it was ready and trying to force the development to fit a schedule they could not keep. It is the exact opposite of what you are trying to imply.

Edited by xxvaderxxar
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12 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

This will always, always be an issue with client-side hosting. You can never test for every scenario. Each system is different, so the games they host can have variables that will cause something to go wrong. Because of this, it's virtually impossible to test for everything. The tests might be running smoothly on their side. They might be even test it on multiple system, from the low end toasters to the high end gaming setup, and will not be able to account for everything. It's only when the patch hit the wider audience that a greater range of bugs and other issues can be detected, 

One thing I'll bet that they don't test is the effect of latency and packet loss. If they did, they would have fixed the whole "press operator button, sit there gawping at the screen for several seconds, finally get into operator, do zenurik dash for energy, get back into frame to find that there's no bubble at all" issue years ago.

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2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I’ll give you one good example that even a delayed game with VERY STRICT QA still has technical issues plaguing it for months and that is... Cyberpunk 2077. And that game is a single player game. Warframe on the other hand is multiplayer, so there are a lot of fragile parts that a single interruption breaks the entire game.

No amount of QA can beat large scale public testing that managed to find hidden bug not discovered by the QA team in minutes.

they got a lot of heat for that because it should have been shipped out way less buggy. It's a bad example, tbh.

 

That said, I remember a friend in the game industry saying that sometimes you will find that when you are dealing with deadlines your boss says etc, sometimes it's better to roll it out with bugs and fix them after, than to tell the people upstairs you have to delay it. So the problem probably rests higher up. But in that case, they need to fix the bugs after at least. DE has a big issue with leaving the bugs in place and going on to the next new shiny thing.

 

Obv I don't 100% agree with OP, and definitely not their approach, but DE is so notorious for delivering ridiculously buggy content that I think it goes beyond what is to be expected.

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19 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you're testing a water dam, all the theoretical testing and preparation and drills won't matter until the dam is in place and operating in real life. 

DE needs the real life data to catch things they may not catch while testing it with a smaller handful of people.

Honestly there's been quite a few updates that were released in the last few years on PC that had gamebreaking or major 100% occurence gamebugs in the main path of the new content that had to be hotfixed like an hour or two after launch, which gives credit to the theory that DE doesn't really playtest the updates before dropping them that much. Really feels like the minute they have all the content in the build  they do a quick smoke test check and poof ,it's time to ship it and let people find the bugs for them, as it's more cost-effective than having actual internal testers playtesting the new content for days and ensuring they have a proper working build before shipping it to customers like most other companies do.

Like when half the audio cuts off and doesn't play in dialogues in a 40 minute long quest and you get two 100% WTBs in quick succession on something they just released, you can't help but ask "Wait, didn't anyone do a full playtrough of the full quest before shipping it?"... Again not talking about obscure stuff like "opening the menu while switching operator while in a loading screen" bugs, i'm talking just stuff like " Half the deimos bounties having main or bonus objectives you cannot complete due to the target not having enough HP to survive or having to kill enemies that either do not spawn or spawn in another spot of the map" or other stuff that should have been picked upon by anyone actually playing the build before shipping it...

Again I'm not asking for a 100% sweep on all old and new content with every build they attempt to ship (as I realize the game is huge and it's impossible to playtest everything on every build), but at the very least I expect to be able to play and fully complete a new main quest that lasts like an hour on launch day, not getting stuff like half the dialogue not playing like in Demos or some mission types not working making a full five wave bounty progression impossible at launch , RJ defense missions failing even when being completed and not unlocking further notes breaking further progression in the starchart, etc , or other similar stuff like not being able to vote and leave any Corpus RJ missions when doing any nodes in Coop (don't tell me nobody tried to do a single coop RJ mission before shipping the update)?

So not, I'm not asking them to make sure the DAM is perfect and can handle any type of situation, but I would at least like them to ensure the concrete they used to build it is not water-soluble before shipping it...

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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A lot of people like to defend DE saying gamebreaking bugs are common and unavoidable in public content releases, but it just goes to say that they don't play much else in their gaming life.

Yeah, I'm no developer, but I can see other large scale games and MMOs that have near flawless content releases on a regular basis. Guild Wars 2 drops large content updates every 3-4 months and have very few bug fixes to deal with. Its rare to ever see something that crashes the game or stops quest/mission progression.

There is definitely a lot of talent in the art and sound design teams at DE, but I really believe there is some serious problems in playtesting and organization for the rest of Warframe.

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