Railjack's new physical inconsistancy is quiet honestly unfuriating

[Artekkor]

I understand that this is a very small and pitiful criticism, especially right now, but yet its something that will drive me mad eventually. I'm horribly annoyed by Railjack's inconsistancy with how it looks outside and how it operates inside.

Specifically, i'm absolutely disgusted by new turret placements. The turret stations, as they are positioned inside are now placed at bottom and upper parts of RJ.
Yet, on the outisde, they are still sideboard like they were before rework. Even worse - when somebody fires them the turrets on the sides light up, but the projectiles are coming from the head / bottom of RJ (which is where they are supposed to be placed, if to be believed by their inner positioning).

Again, i know this is relativelty irrelevant criticism that has no bearing on gameplay itself, but... I absolutely can't stand stuff like that.

Now that RJ has been changed on inside, time to change it on the outside too. Please.
And don't forget the skins too. Because of course you would.

[Serafim_94]

See, that would require effort. Can't have that.

[Skaleek]

I mean... You can sit in a chair and operate a turret remotely from 60km away. Pretty easy to hand wave this away.

[DrivaMain]

As other things in the game, you will probably forget about it as time goes on.

[Tali]

I have been tilted by it since day 1, same with crewships and their turret placements vs where the intereface is. Likewise the 360 capability annoys me, since it shoots through itself. The ship shapes in regards to the functions just doesn't make any sense at all.

[Artekkor]

35 минут назад, DrivaMain сказал:

As other things in the game, you will probably forget about it as time goes on.

If there's one thing i don't forget its things like these. For me appearance is often more important than function.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Nova-IX said:

Likewise the 360 capability annoys me, since it shoots through itself.

The 360 capability is absolutely necessary, regardless of how it ends up looking. Limited firing arcs in a game like Warframe, especially with how fast the Railjack could be, is absolutely unplayable. The Swivel Turrets are barely worth using as it is.

I believe the explanation is the Swivel Turrets are able to swivel anywhere on the ship as they're not physically attached to it. Actually depicting this is difficult, however, as the ship interior isn't part of the combat space, but rather off-site with combat space projected around it.

[Tali]

20 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The 360 capability is absolutely necessary, regardless of how it ends up looking. Limited firing arcs in a game like Warframe, especially with how fast the Railjack could be, is absolutely unplayable. The Swivel Turrets are barely worth using as it is.

I believe the explanation is the Swivel Turrets are able to swivel anywhere on the ship as they're not physically attached to it. Actually depicting this is difficult, however, as the ship interior isn't part of the combat space, but rather off-site with combat space projected around it.

Considering you can 1 man everything in RJ, I disagree. If they designed the ship and gun placements better, it wouldn't even be a problem to begin with.

With how I see it, they made the guns hover in the air to simplify animations and the work needed. Hovering guns are just weird and is another of my gripes with the ship.

[EtherPigeon]

The RJ exterior even has fantastic mounting points for the dorsal and ventral turrets: the dorsal hull has the shield generator "turret" - that's a perfect spot for the dorsal turret. The ventral hull also has a (currently empty) hardpoint.

In fact, it appears these were the original intended hard points to begin with, looking at this concept art for the Railjack. It's some extra effort, but it'd certainly improve the look & feel of Railjack to match interior and exterior again.

I don't mind the 360 capability, though, I'm happy to overlook that gameplay conceit as long as it's "mostly" right.

[Steel_Rook]

5 hours ago, Nova-IX said:

Considering you can 1 man everything in RJ, I disagree. If they designed the ship and gun placements better, it wouldn't even be a problem to begin with.

It doesn't really matter where you place the guns. As long as there's an arc limit, the gunner is at the mercy of the pilot. Side/Swivel guns are already nearly pointless as it is, albeit slightly less so in Railjack 3.0. The last thing they need is more restrictions.

 

5 hours ago, Nova-IX said:

With how I see it, they made the guns hover in the air to simplify animations and the work needed. Hovering guns are just weird and is another of my gripes with the ship.

You would be wrong. In one of the 2019 Dev Streams, Steve Sinclair explained the reason behind the floating guns. Initially, shots would come off-screen, as the Railjack cannons were mounted to the hull out of line of sight - similar to an old space sim game. Eventually a conversation was struck up about how cool it would be to see the guns firing, which is where the idea of floating guns originated. They were an easy way to keep the weapons on-screen with the player while using them. Since one of Railjack's bigger selling points is placing the player in the action rather than keeping the player in a windowless box (which is what GTA Online does), being able to show player + guns + space was a selling point.

I have absolutely no issue with floating guns, myself. This is a magic sci-if game. Guns which float next to ships attached only via energy attraction are hardly the weirdest thing in the game. In fact, it's not even unprecedented. The Gammacor "pistol" already consists of multiple floating pieces not at all attached to the Warframe's arm, and those are the pieces which fire the pistol's signature beam. The Gammacor and the Helicor work in much the same way, actually, and that's just off the top of my head.

[Hobie-wan]

7 hours ago, Nova-IX said:

Likewise the 360 capability annoys me, since it shoots through itself. The ship shapes in regards to the functions just doesn't make any sense at all.

Just wait until you realize that:

• You can't heal yourself by consuming red blobs of jelly that pop out of defeated enemies or having a player really really wish you'd feel better
• You can't grab balls of blue plasma from the air to give yourself an energy boost
• Ammunition you find on the ground can't magically reform itself to fit your shiny random new gun you bought from a smiling person at the mall a few planets over or whipped up on your ship's 3D printer
• You can't bring yourself back to life 4 or 5 times per trip to the store for argon crystals after you've been beaten/shot to a pulp by things that don't like you
• Flying from planet to planet in the blink of an eye is currently unfathomable, much less when considering the energy that would be needed to fly around even at the speeds currently possible
• Atmospheric entry and escape is not as easy as the game makes it look
• Teleportation does not exist
• Ship security isn't a case of finger dexterity or matching shapes
• And so on...

Spread your suspension of disbelief a little further and move on. It's just a game.

[Ham_Grenabe]

5 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Just wait until you realize that:

• You can't heal yourself by consuming red blobs of jelly that pop out of defeated enemies or having a player really really wish you'd feel better
• You can't grab balls of blue plasma from the air to give yourself an energy boost
• You can't bring yourself back to life 4 or 5 times per trip to the store for argon crystals after you've been beaten/shot to a pulp by things that don't like you

Maybe you can't...

[Vaml77]

Exist many other big problems to solve....many inconsistancy in the gear of railjack...sometimes hull or shield decrease or increase....

Many, many questions without answers....

[Deminisis]

Boarding your railjack in the drydock makes the interior look like a closet. The whole exterior needs a redesign to fit the interior now.

[DoomFruit]

15 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Maybe you can't...

Speak for yourself. I heal by running over pixellated chicken dinners.

[Brucieman64]

I 100% agree with the turret problem. I enjoyed the old interiors far more, the "inner navigation" was a problem no one had, except some DEv's imaginary friend I guess.

[Steel_Rook]

7 hours ago, Deminisis said:

Boarding your railjack in the drydock makes the interior look like a closet. The whole exterior needs a redesign to fit the interior now.

The interior was and is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than the exterior, even disregarding the 10-1 scale of Railjack/Archwing props. I forget the exact measurements, but the interior used to be both substantially longer and substantially wider by several times relative to the exterior. While the new interior is narrower and shorter, this isn't by a lot and it's still larger than the exterior.

Additionally, the Railjack exterior never actually fit the interior even at release - not even accounting for cosmetic exterior skins. I've heard tell that it was modified from what was shown at TennoCon 2019, but I don't care enough to go check. Point being - the old turret positions were placed just in front of the nacelles, whereas the actual Turrets were on the sides of the nacelles, instead. Additionally, there was not and is not a spot on the exterior which maps to the rear window.

Long story short, not a lot changed. The interior doesn't match the exterior and never has. I'm not convinced that it needs to, because I'd rather be able to customise my exterior skin and my interior skin separately.

[Deminisis]

3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The interior was and is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than the exterior, even disregarding the 10-1 scale of Railjack/Archwing props. I forget the exact measurements, but the interior used to be both substantially longer and substantially wider by several times relative to the exterior. While the new interior is narrower and shorter, this isn't by a lot and it's still larger than the exterior.

Additionally, the Railjack exterior never actually fit the interior even at release - not even accounting for cosmetic exterior skins. I've heard tell that it was modified from what was shown at TennoCon 2019, but I don't care enough to go check. Point being - the old turret positions were placed just in front of the nacelles, whereas the actual Turrets were on the sides of the nacelles, instead. Additionally, there was not and is not a spot on the exterior which maps to the rear window.

Long story short, not a lot changed. The interior doesn't match the exterior and never has. I'm not convinced that it needs to, because I'd rather be able to customise my exterior skin and my interior skin separately.

You're referring to the railjack in space. I'm talking about the railjack in the drydock. They are completely different sizes. The drydock railjack needs to be sized down.

I don't have a problem with skins and customization, but I never liked how the default model doesn't match.

Looking at the same bridge from the back:

[Famecans]

I didn't like the downgrade of interiors because it doesn't solve main problems and these problems would be solved by the functional teleportation.
The current design has no aesthetic polish, everything was built quickly to replace the old railjack and the old railjack was incredible, I will not put prints here because it will not come back

About internal and external sizes? look at orbital, our character is one tenth size of orbital and orbital is our main ship, I can dream this is a fictional game, I see orbital interior as a virtualized environment, the warframe collects resources and orbital synthesizes and converts all matter to energy, warframes, armaments, rooms and materials are encoded energy in a gigantic virtual environment, this is same technology present in our forge laser inside own orbital :v

Some tennos say that current orbital is the drawing below, for me it just doesn't exist, it's not storygame.
Where DE put this ship if we look at orbital window and see just a orbital squad?

[Steel_Rook]

5 hours ago, Deminisis said:

You're referring to the railjack in space. I'm talking about the railjack in the drydock. They are completely different sizes. The drydock railjack needs to be sized down.

The Railjack exterior model in the Dry Dock is the same one used for Railjack missions. There's no distinction to make. The issue you're highlight in the screenshots isn't even related to the size of the Railjack model, but rather the tech DE use to project the image you see outside the windows when inside. I went into detail on this subject back in 2019, if you're interested. The long and short of it is that ALL Railjack windows share the same single point perspective, or very close to it. The camera is situated somewhere just in front of the Archwing Slingshot, and all windows show a view as though you're standing there. Posters in that thread pointed out that there's SOME amount of parallax shift between different windows, but there's VERY little of it.

I agree with the issue you're highlighting, incidentally, and I spoke about it back in that thread. What I believe DE need to do is implement some kind of offset, such that the player appears to be in the roughly correct place relative to the exterior when looking out windows of the interior, at least based on where those windows are placed front-to-back. That is to say, the camera used to grab a perspective to draw outside the windows needs to shift relative to the absolute location of the Railjack model in space based on where the player is inside the interior. Since the Railjack interior is (still) drastically larger than its exterior AND its exterior is a roughly 1-10 scale model, this offset would need to be scaled and adjusted, but it should be doable.

 

4 hours ago, Famecans said:

The current design has no aesthetic polish, everything was built quickly to replace the old railjack and the old railjack was incredible, I will not put prints here because it will not come back

It has no less polish than the old Railjack - it's a generic sci-fi alien ship interior. Just about the only difference is DE took out the wall behind the amidship area. The wall in front of the Reliquary drive is gone and that area is slightly smaller, the wall and hallway in front of the Forge are gone and the Forge is moved slightly forward. That's really about it. What used to be the "side" guns are probably the biggest offender here, as they still use the graphics from the side guns if you observe a player manning them. DE didn't made additional pods for them. What "polish" do you envision was lost?

[Tali]

On 2021-03-25 at 11:07 PM, Hobie-wan said:

Spread your suspension of disbelief a little further and move on. It's just a game.

No.

 

On 2021-03-25 at 10:44 PM, Steel_Rook said:

You would be wrong. In one of the 2019 Dev Streams, Steve Sinclair explained the reason behind the floating guns. Initially, shots would come off-screen, as the Railjack cannons were mounted to the hull out of line of sight - similar to an old space sim game. Eventually a conversation was struck up about how cool it would be to see the guns firing, which is where the idea of floating guns originated. They were an easy way to keep the weapons on-screen with the player while using them. Since one of Railjack's bigger selling points is placing the player in the action rather than keeping the player in a windowless box (which is what GTA Online does), being able to show player + guns + space was a selling point.

Fair enough

On 2021-03-25 at 10:44 PM, Steel_Rook said:

I have absolutely no issue with floating guns, myself. This is a magic sci-if game. Guns which float next to ships attached only via energy attraction are hardly the weirdest thing in the game. In fact, it's not even unprecedented. The Gammacor "pistol" already consists of multiple floating pieces not at all attached to the Warframe's arm, and those are the pieces which fire the pistol's signature beam. The Gammacor and the Helicor work in much the same way, actually, and that's just off the top of my head.

There are a lot of weird things, and there are plenty I don't like either. RJ just bothers me more than other things, since I love spaceships

[DoomFruit]

21 hours ago, Brucieman64 said:

I 100% agree with the turret problem. I enjoyed the old interiors far more, the "inner navigation" was a problem no one had, except some DEv's imaginary friend I guess.

No, I hated the crap out of the old interior. The upper level with the finger in a pod served no purpose other than to confuse players. The new one's slightly better, but still stupid. Why, for instance, is there STILL a pit trap in the engine room? Why are there no markers on the walls or floor telling players where stations are? Why do forges STILL need to be grappling hooked and pulled down?