Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack: Hotfix 29.10.7

[Chardansearavitriol]

Please have the game tell the squad when a player cant do a mission due to having reached their scrap limit. Just had a squadmate drop the team because of this but no mnention was made as to why and the remaining squad memebers had to abort the mission due to this.

Make it like the message that pops up when someone hasnt got the right type of weapon equipped when hgoing into a weapon-exclusive Sortie.

[Quantum_Blur]

Anyone else's pets not disengaging from enemies anymore when you walk away?  My kavat has lost what little self-preservation instinct it had, and refuses to warp to me even when I've gone to the next tile.  It's bleeding everywhere and I hate it.

[RazerXPrime]

3 hours ago, asesed3211 said:

Can u fix the download update my speed is 10kbs below 

lol

[No1NParticular31]

  

On 2021-03-24 at 4:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

• Railjack Pause menu now offers a "Return to Dojo" option that returns you to the Dry Dock instead of "Abort Mission" which would rudely kick you straight back to your Orbiter.

Actually, why isn't this a thing in all open world areas? If you go directly to the open world, do some mining or fishing you have to go to the city before going back to your orbiter or you lose everything. Why? Same thing if you do a mission and complete it, why do you have to manually run to the city before going to the orbiter? I mean, I get if you abandon the mission still unfinished, but once it's completed, everything should be locked in and the Abort option should change to "Leave Area" with the choices of "City" or "Orbiter".

[roman-]

1 hour ago, Petroklos said:

The sheer disappointing idiocy of this community sometimes. Could it maybe be that some bugs are harder to fix than others? Could it also maybe be, that it is publicly known that they are struggling with pin-pointing that bug? Nah, couldn't be.

Is the Khora "bug" elusive too? Grow up. They've been doing this for too many years.

[master_of_destiny]

13 hours ago, Steel1977 said:

Hi

Ever since the new update I can't get the nautilus to drop parts on the ice mines of Neptune. I have 3 systems, 2 chassic & 1 neuroptics BEFORE the update & I have done the mission 9 times already & NOTHING. To add to my frustration after killing a cruise ship i instantly die when leaving the ship after killing the reactor.

Broken, or bad RNG?

 

4 parts, at 6% drop rate.  That's a collective 24% drop chance.

Let me give you the benefit of doubt, and say that the 9 runs were done with the appropriate missions, and on the appropriate ship (because you have to do the specific one, and not just any "unidentified reward" bearing objective).  Now, what's the likelihood of this outcome?

 

1-0.24 = 76% likelihood of not getting the drop.

0.76^9 = 8%

 

Congrats.  You're slightly rarer than the likelihood of using a radiant relic to get the rarest drop (10%).  Putting this into perspective, you're multiple orders of magnitude more likely than the drop of some of the mods.  You're also about five times more common than running the Orphix mission and after 12 kills getting a legendary arcane (1.4%).  You're also many millions of times more likely than getting the required 21 arcanes to max a single legendary arcane after killing 10290 Orphixes.  I did not speak incorrectly there, that is millions of times more likely at 8%.

 

 

 

Welcome to warframe.  A game where you can run a single mission type for 8+ hours, and not get a damaged necramech weapon part.  A game where you can literally spend months grinding ESO before the final part of the Braton Vandal drops.  A game where you statistically need months of grinding Eidolons to get the required 21 arcanes.  I'm not going to continue, but I could.  DE absolutely shafting free to play with garbage drop rates isn't anything new.

 

 

If anyone at DE is actually listening, let's talk.  7 updates in and Railjack 3.0 is about as frustrating as 1.0 and 2.0.  The only difference is now we don't have to find other people, because you can program in AI aimbots.  Has anybody there just sat down, and thought through that statement?  I'd like to say that I'm disappointed, but I just don't care.  This game mode has been literal years in development, and it's failing harder than Might Number 9.  It's like No Man's Sky without the comeback story.  It's functionally mobile game levels of frustration and money grabbing, without the benefit of claiming that someday there will be an end because the next piece of content will simply come out at a lower drop rate to make it longer to grind for.

I'm not going to say I've been wrong for ever defending you.  I'm not going to say the game is dying.  I'm simply going to suggest that sometimes it's impossible to see the developer from eight years and change ago, that earned people's money from a concept and promise of doing free to play right.  It's impossible to see the company that stopped the kubrow skin slot machine, in the face of the company that tacitly supported the riven mafia for years.  On the eve of the eighth year celebration, it might be time to ask what exactly it is you stand for.  From where I sit, it's looking a lot more like a crappy mobile game with the "high concept" artistic drive making the basic desire for a fun game disappear.  Of course, I might just be salty.  I might just be one of those people you dismiss because they provide negative feedback.  It's not like you've finally had to acknowledge this quietly, given the last two years of performance.  It's also not like the whole house of cards where customers can be ignored is demonstrating issues.  It's not like CBS (Star Trek), Disney (Star Wars), or any other examples of companies ignoring their customers exist and demonstrate their failings.

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, Petroklos said:

Yeah, they've fixed 120 Railjack Bugs and 68 other Bugs, but one of the most blatant ones was benefiting the players, so how dare DE only fix exploits.

The sheer disappointing idiocy of this community sometimes. Could it maybe be that some bugs are harder to fix than others? Could it also maybe be, that it is publicly known that they are struggling with pin-pointing that bug? Nah, couldn't be.

They're not ignoring it: https://trello.com/c/7bnJ1l3e

You seem to want to defend DE.  Let's spend just a moment, and explain some perspective.

 

We are 7 updates in on a system that was released, and has had about 5 and a half business days of being out.  Doing the math here, that's more than an update per day.

Building upon that, why would DE need so many updates?  DE sets their release schedule, has entirely foregone the update on consoles, and didn't perform any outside test server trials.  Hmm.  It looks like this things was rushed out the door half finished, to meet a phantom demand, and instead of spending the week actually testing they decided to use their PC player base as unpaid beta testers.  Again.

Looking at the history of things, let's talk DE.  When it was found that Limbo could lockdown the Scarlet Spear event they banged out a "fix" to this inside of a couple of days.  A frame ate a permanent nerf because of mechanics that were working correctly in the game....but were deemed an exploit because the usage trivialized an event.  Let's also look at the Corpus Ship tileset remaster.  5 locations spawned outside of bounds, meaning Ayatan sculptures and syndicate medallions were inaccessible.  How then did we know these things existed?  Well, you could clip the camera through two walls, and detect item locations for the other three.  It released early last year....and took about 8 months to fix 4 of the 5 spawn locations.  Please note, about a year, and the spawn location inside the jail is still inaccessible if something spawns there.

 

Maybe you've missed some of the other history.  DE started out with outside boards for patching...fine.  They then developed a forum, with a bug reporting section.  This led to the outside board not being used...but at this point the bug section is so poorly maintained that an outside board has been re-implemented.  What?

 

 

If it isn't clear, the frustration here is priority related.  "We're working on it" might mean weeks for a bug that makes the game unplayable for a few people.  For those things that can alleviate grind, DE is willing to do things like suspend enemy AI to prevent players from getting things.  See the response to the Steel Path farms, prior to the rework.  See the Khora nerf that is "still under review."  

I'm tired of this, but let me wrap this up.  DE isn't historically a developer that has responded reasonably to things, and definitely not one that has responded consistently.  There are literal volumes of writing, and hours of video, highlighting these inconsistencies and issues.  You stating that players are being irrational about demanding things is not particularly grounded in reality.

Let me draw a parallel.  CD:PR was responsible for the Witcher.  Great game, relatively bug free, and they earned a reputation for being amazing.  This was the DE that existed years ago.  With the release of Cyberpunk 2077 we can draw direct parallels to the DE of today.  The release was bad and buggy.  CD:PR and DE both work to patch the thing after release, to varying degrees of success.  Both games have seen, on Steam, dramatic numbers of players drop from their highest levels.  Both companies have weathered PR nightmares.  The thing is, CR:PR isn't digging themselves a deeper hole.  They haven't largely stood against their community, or decided to get freelance moderators to make their forums small dictatorships.  I'm sorry here, but this anger isn't something new or unwarranted.  After years of this DE is finally seeing frustration that cannot be ignored.  

Hopefully both CD:PR and DE can claw success away from these situations.  That said, when you decide to lie with dogs you should be prepared for some fleas.

[Petroklos]

1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

You seem to want to defend DE.  Let's spend just a moment, and explain some perspective.

 

We are 7 updates in on a system that was released, and has had about 5 and a half business days of being out.  Doing the math here, that's more than an update per day.

Building upon that, why would DE need so many updates?  DE sets their release schedule, has entirely foregone the update on consoles, and didn't perform any outside test server trials.  Hmm.  It looks like this things was rushed out the door half finished, to meet a phantom demand, and instead of spending the week actually testing they decided to use their PC player base as unpaid beta testers.  Again.

Looking at the history of things, let's talk DE.  When it was found that Limbo could lockdown the Scarlet Spear event they banged out a "fix" to this inside of a couple of days.  A frame ate a permanent nerf because of mechanics that were working correctly in the game....but were deemed an exploit because the usage trivialized an event.  Let's also look at the Corpus Ship tileset remaster.  5 locations spawned outside of bounds, meaning Ayatan sculptures and syndicate medallions were inaccessible.  How then did we know these things existed?  Well, you could clip the camera through two walls, and detect item locations for the other three.  It released early last year....and took about 8 months to fix 4 of the 5 spawn locations.  Please note, about a year, and the spawn location inside the jail is still inaccessible if something spawns there.

 

Maybe you've missed some of the other history.  DE started out with outside boards for patching...fine.  They then developed a forum, with a bug reporting section.  This led to the outside board not being used...but at this point the bug section is so poorly maintained that an outside board has been re-implemented.  What?

 

 

If it isn't clear, the frustration here is priority related.  "We're working on it" might mean weeks for a bug that makes the game unplayable for a few people.  For those things that can alleviate grind, DE is willing to do things like suspend enemy AI to prevent players from getting things.  See the response to the Steel Path farms, prior to the rework.  See the Khora nerf that is "still under review."  

I'm tired of this, but let me wrap this up.  DE isn't historically a developer that has responded reasonably to things, and definitely not one that has responded consistently.  There are literal volumes of writing, and hours of video, highlighting these inconsistencies and issues.  You stating that players are being irrational about demanding things is not particularly grounded in reality.

Let me draw a parallel.  CD:PR was responsible for the Witcher.  Great game, relatively bug free, and they earned a reputation for being amazing.  This was the DE that existed years ago.  With the release of Cyberpunk 2077 we can draw direct parallels to the DE of today.  The release was bad and buggy.  CD:PR and DE both work to patch the thing after release, to varying degrees of success.  Both games have seen, on Steam, dramatic numbers of players drop from their highest levels.  Both companies have weathered PR nightmares.  The thing is, CR:PR isn't digging themselves a deeper hole.  They haven't largely stood against their community, or decided to get freelance moderators to make their forums small dictatorships.  I'm sorry here, but this anger isn't something new or unwarranted.  After years of this DE is finally seeing frustration that cannot be ignored.  

Hopefully both CD:PR and DE can claw success away from these situations.  That said, when you decide to lie with dogs you should be prepared for some fleas.

My post was not about the existence and quantity of bugs.

Warframe is in a messy, buggy state, and DE insists at using the PC Playerbase as a Test Server instead of their actual Test Servers. "New Railjack" was a perfect fit for a test weekend (or more) and I simply can't wrap my head around why they didn't do this. Several bugs, including this rewards-related one, should've been caught earlier.

As for the Limbo thing, this too, should've been caught before Scarlet Spear's release, but it should have happened regardless. All Warframe Abilities scale inversely over time or with repeated uses against Sentients, and while it makes sense that no one noticed how Limbo's didn't when the game had essentially no Sentient content, it should've been caught in testing for Scarlet Spear and should've been included in its first release.

The "recent" Khora nerf, was also deserved but awfully implemented and yes, it shouldn't have been implemented at such an awful state. As for why it's taking so long, it's not a wild guess to assume that fixing Warframe's awful LoS checking system, won't be an easy undertaking and is probably not a priority either. This does not mean that it shouldn't have been fixed already.

People will take the "Warframe has always been buggy" stance, which while true, is obviously not something that the Community is content with anymore and is potentially among the highest points of "friction" as [DE}Steve put it.

But when people go "DE bad" over stuff that's blatantly false, misrepresentative, biased, etc, I'll #*!%ing call that S#&$ out, not only because it's all of the aforementioned adjectives but also because it's trash noise that takes time away from real problems, like all the ones I mentioned above.

There's a very obvious line which distinguishes actual complaints and feedback, from bitter, entitled, conspiracy-theory-tier, non-stop-whining, and too many in this community are seemingly blind to it.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Petroklos

[zaturalma2]

Oh boi, here we go again: many many useful changes (and I mean really a lot so thank you guys and gals), but just enough bad stuff to make me wanna quit railjack:

• The energy. It is a terrible and stupid idea to make the railjack abilities use the warframe energy pool. Yes, it is easy to recover, but if I have a 150 energy cap then I have to recover it after EACH shot of homing missiles. So the process goes like: enter weapon, shoot missiles, exit weapon, place energy refill, enter weapon, shoot missiles exit, place refill etc. And before someone says: NO, I dont want to modify my build with a useless max energy mod just to be able to use my ships abilities. The frame's build is good as is and it is optimized for high lvl content, which railjack does have! So I'm not gonna make it harder for myself. The flux energy system was way better, we filled it ONCE and could fire more than 7 times. This is just terrible.
• Okay, lets accept for a sec that it consumes the energy of the warframe: WHY don't the energy efficiency mods on the warframe reduce the drained enegry?? It is not consistent at all. If Flow has an effect on the railjack powers usability (which has been established) then so should every other warframe energy related mod and arcane. (It would be still bad but at least not outright unusable)
• I had a maxed out railjack, and I mean MAXED, had everything built and ranked up, but now the health, shield and armor mods are gone and the ship is reduced in power. Every player with maxed railjack health and armor avionics should have received an MK III plating to have a similar usability.
• We should be able to chose our own ship if we want to and let others join in if they dont necessarily want to use their own ship! (Most ships stats are just awful, mine is closer to acceptable and will probably be better if I finally get a good plating (like what the maxed out health and armor avionics should have been turned into).
• Battle Forge should not be a super skill!!
• I am pretty sure that nautilus component has been removed from the neptune ice mines, because we did like 20 runs and got 0 components which has a 0.004% possibility (assuming the wiki chances are correct)

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, zaturalma2 said:

Oh boi, here we go again: many many useful changes (and I mean really a lot so thank you guys and gals), but just enough bad stuff to make me wanna quit railjack:

• The energy. It is a terrible and stupid idea to make the railjack abilities use the warframe energy pool. Yes, it is easy to recover, but if I have a 150 energy cap then I have to recover it after EACH shot of homing missiles. So the process goes like: enter weapon, shoot missiles, exit weapon, place energy refill, enter weapon, shoot missiles exit, place refill etc. And before someone says: NO, I dont want to modify my build with a useless max energy mod just to be able to use my ships abilities. The frame's build is good as is and it is optimized for high lvl content, which railjack does have! So I'm not gonna make it harder for myself. The flux energy system was way better, we filled it ONCE and could fire more than 7 times. This is just terrible.
• Okay, lets accept for a sec that it consumes the energy of the warframe: WHY don't the energy efficiency mods on the warframe reduce the drained enegry?? It is not consistent at all. If Flow has an effect on the railjack powers usability (which has been established) then so should every other warframe energy related mod and arcane. (It would be still bad but at least not outright unusable)
• I had a maxed out railjack, and I mean MAXED, had everything built and ranked up, but now the health, shield and armor mods are gone and the ship is reduced in power. Every player with maxed railjack health and armor avionics should have received an MK III plating to have a similar usability.
• We should be able to chose our own ship if we want to and let others join in if they dont necessarily want to use their own ship! (Most ships stats are just awful, mine is closer to acceptable and will probably be better if I finally get a good plating (like what the maxed out health and armor avionics should have been turned into).
• Battle Forge should not be a super skill!!
• I am pretty sure that nautilus component has been removed from the neptune ice mines, because we did like 20 runs and got 0 components which has a 0.004% possibility (assuming the wiki chances are correct)

MKIII plating drops like candy in missions. You can also craft the basic MKIII sigma one if you complete like 3 low level railjack missions to get the new resource. Not a valid complaint.

[Akula_Rose]

Yo how about not making us farm for an inferior Sechura Penta that's worth 15 cents in American currency... K thnx bye

[metvincent]

On 2021-03-26 at 8:51 PM, RazerXPrime said:

These last two points sound more like issues with the players rather than the game itself. In fact you just made your friends look stupid.

Let's go over this.

First friend, the mictrotransactions fan, realized he wasn't gonna get far ahead by buying plat from the get go, dude had watched me play for months and I told him countless times this wasn't P2W. Or at least not as much. Were you even around when we had raids and people used to be complete elitists about builds and teamcomps? Even if you weren't, same thing still happens somewhat with Eidolon hunting nowadays. God bless Raid school bus back in the day for inadvertedly changing that in some way.

Sooooo... he bought the plat on discount because he wanted his Nezha (which he still has equipped ever since he left the game for good btw) to look better. And he got that plat before I got around to explaining him about free time gated color palettes/attachments and how the rest are bought at the market for 75 & around 100 plat per set, respectively. Do you remember how lacking base/old warframes look when using default color palettes as a new player? Back to the plat thing, he got the 4300 plat bundle. Less than a month later, and thanks to daily explanations over how to make his stuff kill other stuff reliably and what he needed to get (not counting rivens ofc), he ended up with less than 2K.

You've surely heard the term "fashion frame is endgame". Texture work has improved a LOT over the years, but most of the old stuff still looks bad. I can't blame the guy for wanting to play Warframe without me babysitting him 24/7 which in turn also goes back to buying stuff he wants to get better without really knowing about prices or resources to do so on his own, not to mention DE not controlling the market in any way aside from the new weapon 0.5 riven disposition change (which a lot of people didn't like either) so that grifters don't scam new players who don't know any better. And all of this doing so while not looking like cheap plastic.

You really think that was an issue with him when he realized that maxing out his gear to progress is done way faster if someone else does all the killing while he just jumps around and stays alive? Is it his issue because he chose to play Nezha instead of Saryn or another nuker? Not to mention affinity gain would've only got him so far, since affinity through wf kills all go to the wf instead of his weapons.

Second friend has been a game developer for over ten years now, he saw right away all the FOMO practices the game has, the unnecessary grind for kuva with rivens and the company who owns DE and said "hell no".

So no, all of these issues my friends had were & are about with the game itself, not within the players. Issues which have been endlessly been debated by the community literally for years. Do I need to emphazise too about the new player experience and how first friend relied on me going through all of the game's mechanics he either needed to sift through wiki for days to learn otherwise?

You just made yourself look the same way you said I made my friends look.

[metvincent]

22 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

So, let's review how this works...and why it's half baked.

 

Day one you boot into the system...and discover access to the Plexus.  This happens once you get an archwing... and you've literally had no reason to access the Plexus because you can't possibly have gotten any railjack mods.  Let's glaze over this.  You decide that because you've got access to the railjack missions now, you should do some.  Failure point one, nobody is doing the mission on Earth, because the rewards to time investment are garbage.  Ditto for Venus.  

Let's say you eventually manage to hook-up with a group.  Everyone is new, because there's no reason to school bus people through these missions.  Your starting railjack is complete garbage.  No artillery, slingshot, or anything but basic gun access.  Time to do a mission...and discover that despite having access to the ship all you can do is fly a fragile archwing through a swarm of fighters that infinitely spawn, to board a ship, and eventually take the crewship out.  Of course, your group can really only spare one or two people because with the extremely limited resource pool and infinitely spawning fighters you cannot afford to have everyone focused.  This is failure point two.  Namely, the completely amazing railjack turns out to be a flying kick-me sign.

Let's say you do some grinding.  You invest, and get command up and running.  Plow those resources into the system...and discover that the power function costing is simply frustrating.  You can get a crew member, and maybe even a second.  This is instead of the slingshot or basic features...if this isn't clear, that is failure three.  Putting it into short terms, there's a designated progression requiring command focus, to properly arm and crew your ship so you don't have to get a crew together and keep those cats herded.

Now you've got a crew.  It's time to grind, and maybe unlock the other intrinsic paths.  With a single gunner and engineer it's easy to barrel through Earth and Venus, while accumulating resources.  You can't really build much, because the resource drops have really crashed.  That said, you can accumulate enough resources to get the high grade crew.  So, what do I do now?  Well, this is failure point four.  It's a copy paste railjack start, then a random bolted on piece of core warframe content.  Yep, failure four is trying to do everything, doing it all mediocre, and thus failing by pleasing nobody.

You've already struck out, but there are other failures along the way.  With capped scrap and RNG based drops you fail by having  to fight inventory.  You fail engagement, because the progression from 8-9 and 9-10 is so much grinding that by the time you earn anything it's been so long without reinforcement that it doesn't feel like a reward.  You fail rewards themselves, because of stupidly low random percentage rolls.  Finally, you find that everything in this game mode is functionally designed to be about a power fantasy, but the difference between no investment, moderate investment, and fully powered content is often only rewarded by having to engage with the systems less.  This is all hinging upon not wanting to play, because a fractional percentage drop chance almost guarantees that by the time you earn what you wanted there is no fun left.

 

 

 

 

Regarding the account suspension, I have one word.  "Motivation."  DE counts based upon "registered users."  This ignores non-users by virtue of their accounts existing, or alternatively they are allowed to call people "players" as long as they at least provided enough data to open an account.  This is important because you don't lose an account due to inactivity.  Looking at this another way, all your friends that quit without an account suspension are still counted as registered users....making DE's player base seem much deeper than it is.  That's the motivation.

Couldn't agree more with you there. The whole system itself entices others to get carried or die trying. And in a game where going fast is one of its selling points, RJ leads that to a halt unless you're equipped and know what you're doing. TBH I can't imagine what it'd feel like for players who don't know too much about RJ when they go overboard with scrap and need to sift through which ones to keep and which ones to turn to endo.

And about the last part... yeah, I also agree. "Warframe 26 million registered losers" will be forever ingrained in my mind. Truly misleading numbers, if I'm to take into account Steam charts showing 68,530 and 56,812 peak users for November and December 2016 respectively. So much for transparency 🤣

[Butterfly85]

Can we lose Oberon and Ash from Railjack? Anyone who played the game enough to get to the point of unlocking ailjack would have picked up dozens of Oberon parts from eximus drops. 

As for Ash? Gating him behind a 10% drop  C rotation on an awful defense map is somehow even worse than hating him behind manics. It's an egregious waste of player's time.

[master_of_destiny]

7 hours ago, Petroklos said:

My post was not about the existence and quantity of bugs.

Warframe is in a messy, buggy state, and DE insists at using the PC Playerbase as a Test Server instead of their actual Test Servers. "New Railjack" was a perfect fit for a test weekend (or more) and I simply can't wrap my head around why they didn't do this. Several bugs, including this rewards-related one, should've been caught earlier.

As for the Limbo thing, this too, should've been caught before Scarlet Spear's release, but it should have happened regardless. All Warframe Abilities scale inversely over time or with repeated uses against Sentients, and while it makes sense that no one noticed how Limbo's didn't when the game had essentially no Sentient content, it should've been caught in testing for Scarlet Spear and should've been included in its first release.

The "recent" Khora nerf, was also deserved but awfully implemented and yes, it shouldn't have been implemented at such an awful state. As for why it's taking so long, it's not a wild guess to assume that fixing Warframe's awful LoS checking system, won't be an easy undertaking and is probably not a priority either. This does not mean that it shouldn't have been fixed already.

People will take the "Warframe has always been buggy" stance, which while true, is obviously not something that the Community is content with anymore and is potentially among the highest points of "friction" as [DE}Steve put it.

But when people go "DE bad" over stuff that's blatantly false, misrepresentative, biased, etc, I'll #*!%ing call that S#&$ out, not only because it's all of the aforementioned adjectives but also because it's trash noise that takes time away from real problems, like all the ones I mentioned above.

There's a very obvious line which distinguishes actual complaints and feedback, from bitter, entitled, conspiracy-theory-tier, non-stop-whining, and too many in this community are seemingly blind to it.

You do know that by definition you can't have your cake and eat it too, right?

 

You've parroted my points back at me.  Fine.  Let's assume that you actually agree, and don't just want to shut the discussion down.  Why did I make these points?  

 

1) DE has the tendency to nerf quickly once failures are detected, but not fix things quickly.  This was a more eloquent way of stating the point you disagreed with, and quoted as:

"

Quote

The sheer disappointing idiocy of this community sometimes. Could it maybe be that some bugs are harder to fix than others? Could it also maybe be, that it is publicly known that they are struggling with pin-pointing that bug? Nah, couldn't be.

Let me make this abundantly clear, your citation here is a deflection. It's a deflection because if it really were so difficult, and you agreed with the statement that they could have used their test servers, then you're stuck on a non-starter discussion.  Namely, either DE doesn't test or they can't detect basic issues.  Remember, they set their own release, and have regularly pushed things back.  So, is this immense incompetence at DE?  Is it fundamentally incapable testing?  Maybe it's just pushing too hard to release a product, and being fine with the sentiment of "screw it, we'll fix it in post."  

Let me be clear; other games releasing like this, where a third iteration of a core system can release needing literally hundreds of issues to be patched do not happen.  I'll cite Terraria.  They added a fishing mechanic, hundreds of items, multiple new events, and required a grand total of two hotfixes thereafter.  It was a team of less developers than you see on the monthly developer stream by DE  Yeah, hiding behind the "but it's difficult" excuse garners no sympathy.  If it's half baked then it should not have released.

So, let me ask a question that you aren't answering.  Is DE guilty of releasing garbage?  Demonstrably yes.  Is it unfair for customers to expect a release to function....after 7 patches.  No.  Is it unreasonable to be frustrated....you seem to come down on both sides.  That's a deflection.  Either releasing a pre-alpha build is fine, or it isn't.  Trying to move the goal post here by stating it might be hard to fix something that shouldn't have released is...so backwards I cannot even imagine it.  It's maybe someone aware of the complexities of this trying to justify failure.  

 

 

 

2) Some bugs are to be expected....not really.  It's not a recent thing that people are angry with the release state.  It's convenient to forget the Primed Salt meme.  Your quote:
 

Quote

 

Yeah, they've fixed 120 Railjack Bugs and 68 other Bugs, but one of the most blatant ones was benefiting the players, so how dare DE only fix exploits.

 

If your car suddenly stopped the engine while driving about 30% of the time you'd have consumer protection, but software gets a free pass.  You know, lawsuits exist for this crap.  If you'd like to understand, go research the bolt on the Ford Pinto, that punctured the gas tank in even low speed collisions.  The point here is that you want it both ways.  DE shouldn't have released, but people are unreasonable for being frustrated that DE prioritizes fixes that might hurt their bottom line.  Boo-hoo, it's so unfair that they might not fix everything quickly.

You follow up with, "they should not have released."

Which is it?  Again, the duplicity here is frustrating.  If your answer is that this should not have released then you can't blame people for seeing broken things getting fixed if it reduces grind as a priority, as anything but DE willing to release bad and maybe eventually fix things.  If it shouldn't have released you should be angry about needing hundreds of fixes and a functional daily patch.

Let me be real here, from a project planning/SCRUM standpoint.  Eight years of this game.  Dozens and dozens of releases.  Despite this, DE continues to shoot garbage out the door, and patch like crazy.  This is what we call institutional stupidity, where any decent manager would have figured out better management goals and timelines.  Even a mediocre project manager would have pumped the brakes on some of the releases, and put delays out there.  No, DE thinks different.  They continue to over promise, under deliver, and transparently focus on things which actively force engagement times to rise by ever poorer RNG drop techniques ahead of basic functionality.  That's idiotic...but I'll suggest that Limbo and Khora ate a Scarlet Spear nerf....where only a low duration Limbo was affected.  Yes, if you have a high duration Limbo the nerf effectively did not exist...so that nerf was another example of half baked fixing.

 

 

3) Finally, the coup de grace.  They now have a board to submit bugs to.  Seriously?  Your quote:

Quote

They're not ignoring it: https://trello.com/c/7bnJ1l3e

 

It's laughable.  Let me state, there is a forum here for bug reporting.  There is a defined submission style, and a post about whatever DE wants to request.  That's all inside a DE run system.

Now, instead of using this they decided on an outside board.  Why?  I cannot tell you for sure.  Let me be real though, it points to one of two realities.  The first is that the forums are viewed as somehow tainted....meaning that feedback here is valued below a freaking tweet.  The second is that DE doesn't trust the feedback loop to go through the forums and get to the development team.  That screams that they believe there's a missing communication piece, or internal mistrust.  Neither situation indicates trust...and based upon my experience actually indicates a team in trouble and looking to isolate themselves from pain.  The pain borne of poor performance.

 

I lost trust in DE's reporting a long time ago.  Again, it took years for a trailer that was "90% done" to be released.  Zephyr deluxe was also done...and the one we finally got was a totally new Wipeout themed monstrosity instead of the one they've showed off multiple times over the last several years.  I'm still waiting on a ghoul saw...promised years ago...then joked about...then promised and demonstrated...and still not actually indicated for a solid release date.

 

 

If it isn't clear, I view you as an inconsistent or bad actor here.  If this is about distaste for how some people have expressed frustration with DE, and a perceived lack of eloquence, then maybe I can see where you are coming from.  The issue is that you have not expressed that.  You've fundamentally attacked negative feedback, and when confronted you've changed the tone to agree with someone who has the same negative feedback.  

Maybe I'm giving the people you quoted and provided a retort to a bit much credit, but I do not believe so.  They're frustrated for the same reasons I am, and you've shut them down while agreeing that this shouldn't be how things are.  What am I supposed to assume here?  

 

I'm going to take the high road.  The final word is yours, barring anything as a direct message should this be less than civil.  From where I sit you're calling people out for being unreasonable, while both defending DE and admonishing them for the same thing in the same breath.  What does one make of this?

[Myhel]

On 2021-03-26 at 9:22 PM, PollexMessier said:

The other house weapons drop exclusively from the crewships...
which is why you never see them because only 2 crewships ever spawn per corpus railjack mission.

 

If that were the case then all the corpus crew ship I blew up should at least given me a levan weapon so far nothing but resources came from them....also I been in mission where there more than 2 crew ships some have 3 of them and some sometimes have 4 but it varies

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'll cite Terraria. 

I don’t know using a game that focuses on quality over quantity while Warframe is the opposite isn’t very a good example. Sure Terraria’s release are extremely stable, but you forgot that Terraria’s community are VERY patient. Warframe community? They’ll scream “CoNtENT DrOUgHT” usually 2 weeks after a major update. 

DE already knows that without constant new content every month the game will die. There is no way DE will slow down the update pace. They are willing to sacrifice some quality to keep the player base saturated with content. Not to mention they love to release things under-tuned to consider launch day feedbacks. 

This is why I always advice players who value quality updates to never play at launch. Wait at least 10 hotfixes before jumping in. Looking at DE’s behavior I believe DE has inside data that most of the player base are willing to accept buggy releases, so they forged on with this tactic. Remember, not every player interacts with the community. 
 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by DrivaMain

[RoninFive]

Please fix nikana zaw not being able to use nikana dax skin properly because the sheath won't take the colors.

Similarly, it has two sugatras for some reason.

Here's the bug report from a year ago with pictures and people confirming it's the same for them:

 

[RazerXPrime]

6 hours ago, metvincent said:

Let's go over this.

First friend, the mictrotransactions fan, realized he wasn't gonna get far ahead by buying plat from the get go, dude had watched me play for months and I told him countless times this wasn't P2W. Or at least not as much. Were you even around when we had raids and people used to be complete elitists about builds and teamcomps? Even if you weren't, same thing still happens somewhat with Eidolon hunting nowadays. God bless Raid school bus back in the day for inadvertedly changing that in some way.

Sooooo... he bought the plat on discount because he wanted his Nezha (which he still has equipped ever since he left the game for good btw) to look better. And he got that plat before I got around to explaining him about free time gated color palettes/attachments and how the rest are bought at the market for 75 & around 100 plat per set, respectively. Do you remember how lacking base/old warframes look when using default color palettes as a new player? Back to the plat thing, he got the 4300 plat bundle. Less than a month later, and thanks to daily explanations over how to make his stuff kill other stuff reliably and what he needed to get (not counting rivens ofc), he ended up with less than 2K.

You've surely heard the term "fashion frame is endgame". Texture work has improved a LOT over the years, but most of the old stuff still looks bad. I can't blame the guy for wanting to play Warframe without me babysitting him 24/7 which in turn also goes back to buying stuff he wants to get better without really knowing about prices or resources to do so on his own, not to mention DE not controlling the market in any way aside from the new weapon 0.5 riven disposition change (which a lot of people didn't like either) so that grifters don't scam new players who don't know any better. And all of this doing so while not looking like cheap plastic.

You really think that was an issue with him when he realized that maxing out his gear to progress is done way faster if someone else does all the killing while he just jumps around and stays alive? Is it his issue because he chose to play Nezha instead of Saryn or another nuker? Not to mention affinity gain would've only got him so far, since affinity through wf kills all go to the wf instead of his weapons.

Second friend has been a game developer for over ten years now, he saw right away all the FOMO practices the game has, the unnecessary grind for kuva with rivens and the company who owns DE and said "hell no".

So no, all of these issues my friends had were & are about with the game itself, not within the players. Issues which have been endlessly been debated by the community literally for years. Do I need to emphazise too about the new player experience and how first friend relied on me going through all of the game's mechanics he either needed to sift through wiki for days to learn otherwise?

You just made yourself look the same way you said I made my friends look.

I think you're missunderstanding everything about what happened to your friends and the game. One of the few things that actually hurt the game is the online play element with random people. But it is your choice to join them. All complaints about the game with regards to nuke frames or whatever else things affect your gameplay has nothing to do with what you play. It has something to do with what others play. You let others ruin your experience for you, sure blame the game. I blame you. Or your friends in this regard. 

Not saying that being prone to addiction is something to scoff at. Your friend is likely better off not playing anything with microtransactions. As someone with a gambling addiction history I understand what that means all too well. The point is not that. The point is, someone invests money into a game and then decide someone else is ruining his or her experience and then stops playing? People tend to forget that Warframe is a solo game with coop options. I personally play mostly solo and if not, I play with my friends or my clan. I jumped into a couple of online rando's and it was an absolute disaster. But yea, I play the game for me, nor for someone else. So if someone else wants to nuke a room every time and I want to sneak around (for example), why would I slam my head into a group of random meta slaves? That makes litterally no sense. Nothing of what you're saying about affinity gain is an issue with the game itself.

Your second friend blames the company and something as irrelevant to the game as kuva and the liches. Something a player will probably invest in after playing for half a year'or a year of playing. Perhaps he's a visionary. Or you know, perhaps he doesn't know what the game actually is. Or even worse perhaps someone explained it to him wrong. Kuva weapons, rivens, unnecessary grind. Those are all things you choose. You can play the game at your pace, but people seem to want to follow meta so bad that they feel it's no good. How is that in any way the game's problem? If you're a meta slave, it's on you. I've heard these arguemnts before "oh but the game forces you to play this way". I mean really? Really? Is there a guy with a gun at the back of your head saying: "play meta or I'll ffing shoot your brains out?". Come on man. All I'm saying is, play the game the way you want to play it. Don't let others decide it for you.

[metvincent]

3 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

I think you're missunderstanding everything about what happened to your friends and the game. One of the few things that actually hurt the game is the online play element with random people. But it is your choice to join them. All complaints about the game with regards to nuke frames or whatever else things affect your gameplay has nothing to do with what you play. It has something to do with what others play. You let others ruin your experience for you, sure blame the game. I blame you. Or your friends in this regard. 

Not saying that being prone to addiction is something to scoff at. Your friend is likely better off not playing anything with microtransactions. As someone with a gambling addiction history I understand what that means all too well. The point is not that. The point is, someone invests money into a game and then decide someone else is ruining his or her experience and then stops playing? People tend to forget that Warframe is a solo game with coop options. I personally play mostly solo and if not, I play with my friends or my clan. I jumped into a couple of online rando's and it was an absolute disaster. But yea, I play the game for me, nor for someone else. So if someone else wants to nuke a room every time and I want to sneak around (for example), why would I slam my head into a group of random meta slaves? That makes litterally no sense. Nothing of what you're saying about affinity gain is an issue with the game itself.

Your second friend blames the company and something as irrelevant to the game as kuva and the liches. Something a player will probably invest in after playing for half a year'or a year of playing. Perhaps he's a visionary. Or you know, perhaps he doesn't know what the game actually is. Or even worse perhaps someone explained it to him wrong. Kuva weapons, rivens, unnecessary grind. Those are all things you choose. You can play the game at your pace, but people seem to want to follow meta so bad that they feel it's no good. How is that in any way the game's problem? If you're a meta slave, it's on you. I've heard these arguemnts before "oh but the game forces you to play this way". I mean really? Really? Is there a guy with a gun at the back of your head saying: "play meta or I'll ffing shoot your brains out?". Come on man. All I'm saying is, play the game the way you want to play it. Don't let others decide it for you.

Looks like you're adamant on showing your poor virtues...

"I think you're missunderstanding everything about what happened to your friends and the game."

Sure dude, you're the one who talks with them, not me.

"One of the few things that actually hurt the game is the online play element with random people. But it is your choice to join them."

So by your account they should've play solo. On a coop game. Gotcha!

"All complaints about the game with regards to nuke frames or whatever else things affect your gameplay has nothing to do with what you play."

Definitely has to do with the fun factor. You may enjoy leeching to hell and back in ESO, but they didn't, and it's completely understandable.

"The point is not that." But the point WAS that, straight from first friend's mouth. Your entitlement to try and correct what this guy's reason for leaving was is beyond belief dude.

"I personally play mostly solo and if not, I play with my friends or my clan."

That's your CALL. No matter how hard you want to paint WF as being "a solo game with coop options", the game is stated as being "Warframe is a free-to-play action role-playing third-person shooter multiplayer online game ". Every single marketing speech out there about the game, made by DE themselves, starts with " A third-person, co-op focused action game at its core".

Aside that, onto the "playing with friends/clan", you need to understand some basic concepts: No one plays in our region comparatively speaking to NA, and the language barrier is not something everyone can bypass. All of this also plays into every single aspect within the game. There's also the fact of not everyone being available to play at the same time because jobs and IRL stuff (which you're not taking into account either).

"So if someone else wants to nuke a room every time and I want to sneak around (for example), why would I slam my head into a group of random meta slaves? That makes litterally no sense."

Try repeating yourself that when cracking relics.

"Nothing of what you're saying about affinity gain is an issue with the game itself."
 
Maybe you should take a look at affinity distribution. Second friend actually didn't want me to babysit at all, which is understandable, so I pointed him towards the affinity wiki. He figured the best way to solo max a weapon is to just equip that piece of gear alone and do all the killing with it, due to how affinity distribution works. Go ahead and tell me with a straight face you have fun maxing out some MR fodder if you had no decent mods to equip it with and no knowledge of spy vaults and tilesets.

"Your second friend blames the company and something as irrelevant to the game as kuva and the liches. Something a player will probably invest in after playing for half a year'or a year of playing."

Yeah no, that's complete BS too. Aside from the fact my second friend was over MR12 before he left iirc, you can get rivens pretty much a week after you made your account if you so happen to join at the right time. Ever heard of alerts that reward rivens? Say you have a friend who notices that time gated alert being shown in his navigation panel and asks you about it. What do you do in that instance? Would you shut your friend down with "ah no, that's far beyond your reach and understanding, it's endgame content, don't bother"?

"Or you know, perhaps he doesn't know what the game actually is. Or even worse perhaps someone explained it to him wrong. Kuva weapons, rivens, unnecessary grind. Those are all things you choose."

I'm the only one who they had access to when they needed answers, and I've always been quite careful to let them know the ammount of grind the game has beforehand, so hopefully you don't backpedal now that I'm pointing out your backhanded insult. At least grow some gonads and answer me with "you explained it to him wrong". For that matter, I didn't. You look like the kind of person who would explain the game wrong to someone tho, should I take into account the most brainless thing you've said so far: "WF is a single player game with coop".

"You can play the game at your pace, but people seem to want to follow meta so bad that they feel it's no good. How is that in any way the game's problem?"

Sure, we all can play the game at our own pace. Actually I soloed most content up to MR16 back in the day, before rivens were even a thing. In time you realize you're purposely gimping yourself, specially when time gated events are around. Just take the last two alerts we had this weekend for example. You look like the kind of "friend" who'd tell your brand new buddy player "don't bother with that forma thing, you're not there yet".

So how about you step out of your shoes for a sec and think about this? Picture yourself starting out your brand new account. You join the game right when Scarlet Spear got released. You see it all over your UI, you just logged into your brand new account, and the game itself gives you a message saying "X update is out! be sure to hop on by X place to fight sentinels and claim your reward!". You look for videos on the game about how to learn what mods do or whatever and all recent content you find says "Scarlet spear is online!" or whatever. But naaaah! You'd go "noooope, that's not for me, I'm just starting out..... ok, what do I do?" and ask around. Everyone in region chat is talking about the event, no dice... you get into a clan, same deal! Everyone is asking each other about that Scarlet Spear event everyone's playing.

Now again, can you tell me with a straight face you wouldn't be interested? Would you go "nah, I just started the game, F those rewards"? GTFO dude 🤣

"If you're a meta slave, it's on you."

NGL I did my fair share of coptering, Limbo nuking right after his rework and some other "meta" stuff. Coptering was fun when WF was a slugfest compared to what we can do today, mobility wise. Limbo nuking felt AMAZING, specially since he was well known to be the "troll frame". Hell, I can't move Octavia from my most used frames in my profile even though I haven't played her in about two years now (no disrespect to those who main her, she just got boring to me), and my Saryn has BY FAR the most kills for obvious reasons. That's what you do when you have a goal, dude. I'm betting you didn't grind any focus farm with Rhino/Nekros/Hydroid. Whatever your definition of "meta" is, it's just not a smart take from you to not acknowledge there's more efficient ways to do certain content within the game. When your game time is reduced by IRL obligations, family, work, study, friends, kids and IRL leisure, you'll go for the efficient route if you want to get something done.

And unlike you, I'm not telling you how to enjoy your game, but you sure as hell did take the liberty to do so with my friends, whom you might haven't noticed they haven't played the game for over a year now 🙄

"I've heard these arguemnts before "oh but the game forces you to play this way". I mean really? Really? Is there a guy with a gun at the back of your head saying: "play meta or I'll ffing shoot your brains out?". Come on man. All I'm saying is, play the game the way you want to play it. Don't let others decide it for you."

I'll agree with you there. I play the game the way I want to, and respected my friend's choices too. I despised the elitist meta surrounding raids and eidolon hunting at the time, and still do now that I do have the means to do them efficiently, because I don't like that aspect of the community (Again, god bless Raid schoolbus, if any of you ever read this, you guys were amazing). Thing is you answered me as if I WERE my friends. No dude, I just laid down the issues they had with the game that made them leave it, on their own. They didn't play at the same timelapse, they don't even know each other (second friend is one of my best buds, first friend is a coworker), yet they had similar issues. Which also coincides with a lot of well known issues the community as a whole have had within the game.

The fact that you're outright denying all of those issues because you actively choose to go against the game's motto and play solo, and/or you scrap rivens whenever you get those or whatever is baffling. And since you also denied the new player experience issue, I just gotta ask. How did you learn to play the game? Self taught? You know there's no such thing, right? How did you understand how Blood Rush, Hunter Munitions and all of these mods with hidden mechanics work? Combo counter? You do understand scaling starts to matter as soon as you fight enemies around lvl 20, right?

Not a week ago I had to explain modding to an MR4 clanmate who didn't know what to do with mods, at all. No idea what aura mods or polarities and mod capacity were. And dude didn't own any aura mods to begin with. First one you get for free comes from Europa's junction. There's waaay too many missions and challenges you need to do in order to get there. According to your logic I should've let the guy ram his head against a wall until he got there solo.

Modding has been forever known to be one of the game's biggest hindrances to those who are learning the game, yet it's absolutely crucial to not get gunned down immediately after starting a mission, or killing whatever enemy. If you don't watch a guide or somebody tells you what mods are, or how to equip them, how each of them work, why does their slotting order matter and so on, you're bound for dissapointment.

But sure, there's no issues here!

That's a nice shining armor you got there. Does it come in white?

Edited March 28, 2021 by metvincent

[RazerXPrime]

Seems like you're just putting an opinion on me which is completely wrong. I play the game my way. I do not leech in ESO, I don't even play ESO. And yea you probably fed your friends the wrong info on the game forcing them to look at it from a meta loot perspective. In fact you're right. I was wrong to blame your friends. I take back what I said about them. I blame you.

I'm not even going to bother reading through your wall of text as your understanding of the game and how you should play it is completely and utterly unfun. So yea moving on.

[master_of_destiny]

5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I don’t know using a game that focuses on quality over quantity while Warframe is the opposite isn’t very a good example. Sure Terraria’s release are extremely stable, but you forgot that Terraria’s community are VERY patient. Warframe community? They’ll scream “CoNtENT DrOUgHT” usually 2 weeks after a major update. 

DE already knows that without constant new content every month the game will die. There is no way DE will slow down the update pace. They are willing to sacrifice some quality to keep the player base saturated with content. Not to mention they love to release things under-tuned to consider launch day feedbacks. 

This is why I always advice players who value quality updates to never play at launch. Wait at least 10 hotfixes before jumping in. Looking at DE’s behavior I believe DE has inside data that most of the player base are willing to accept buggy releases, so they forged on with this tactic. Remember, not every player interacts with the community. 
 

 

`

I could write a lot here....that nobody would ever read.  If you'd like to pursue why I compare these two games specifically, I'd suggest you do some real background research.

 

That being said, let me hit on the things that matter in a listicle.

1) DE releases bad not because of magical data.  They release bad because their streamers can sell thing, the half life on getting money back is measured in days, and thus more content will sell.  More is better....even if it's busted.  This is not inside data, but disrespect for a customer base, that you simply want to milk money from.

2) Content drought is a joke.  You're using it as a specter, and straw man.  Note that it was more than 200 days between the release of new frames in 2020.  That's not an error.  If you want to pretend that isn't content drought, be my guest.  I played this game when DE pumped out new tenno reinforcements basically every month.  Now there have been entire months without so much as patching.  That's acceptable in a game like Terraria where you can use the content without issue...but not so much when it'll take 8+ months to not have things spawn outside of level boundaries.

3) Sacrificing some quality at release is...understandable.  When will it be fixed?  The answer with Railjack is never.  18 months released, hyped for more than 18 months before that, and currently on revision 3.0.  Despite this each update is fixing things that weren't broken for some people, causing more to break for others, and simply shifting the meta slightly to the right and left rather than moving forward.  Don't play until 29.10.10 is a fantastic thought....but it's also an invitation to simply not play.  Why even try to engage with a system so broken that right now the Postal 4 Janky build is more stable?

[Killashandra_Rei]

I am currently having an issue that when toggle sprint is enabled my boost function will not work. Effectively negating my piloting intrinsic.

[metvincent]

44 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Seems like you're just putting an opinion on me which is completely wrong. I play the game my way. I do not leech in ESO, I don't even play ESO. And yea you probably fed your friends the wrong info on the game forcing them to look at it from a meta loot perspective. In fact you're right. I was wrong to blame your friends. I take back what I said about them. I blame you.

I'm not even going to bother reading through your wall of text as your understanding of the game and how you should play it is completely and utterly unfun. So yea moving on.

"Seems like you're just putting an opinion on me which is completely wrong". Well look who's talking! haha!

You started the argument by doing exactly that to me and my buddies. Figures you wouldn't read what I answered you back. Goes to show both your lack rethoric and empathy towards new players. At least you grew some balls now that I enticed you to it.

Keep sealioning 🖐

[RazerXPrime]

1 minute ago, metvincent said:

"Seems like you're just putting an opinion on me which is completely wrong". Well look who's talking! haha!

You started the argument by doing exactly that to me and my buddies. Figures you wouldn't read what I answered you back. Goes to show both your lack rethoric and empathy towards new players. At least you grew some balls now that I enticed you to it.

Keep sealioning 🖐

Lol. I think you're forgetting you came into the topic with your bold nonsense statements first friendo.