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Imagine making a whole pirate-y themed quest and putting a pirate hat alt helm for the new frame and yet still not giving Hydroid a rework.


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And the sad thing is, they could do a Zephyr-like revisit on him with simply making the existing abilities more reliable, more cohesive and less overlapping.

It's not that hard:

Spoiler
  • Passive
    • Tentacle Slam - Now 100% chance to occur on slams.
    • Mistform (added passive) - Hydroid turns invulnerable for 3 seconds when he would otherwise die. This has a 120 second cooldown, and is reduced by 1 second for every enemy killed who have been affected by one of his abilities (can max reduce the cooldown by 90 seconds from this interaction).
  • Tempest Barrage
    • No longer has a chargemechanic.
      • Duration is still only 2/3/4/5 seconds, but damage is increased to 100/150/200/300 Impact damage
    • No longer ragdolls enemies (should only occur on an enemy's death)
    • Each explosion knocks down enemies (REGULAR knockdown, not the ragdolling kind)
    • Each explosion reduces the enemy's current armor and shields by 2/2/2/3%, affected by Ability Strength
    • Augment: Corroding Barrage Abyssal Barrage  - Each explosion also has a 50/100/150/200% chance to cause Cold-procs on enemies, while restoring 5/10/15/20 shields to allies struck by the explosions. Can create overshields.
  • Tidal Surge
    • Base width is increased to 5/6/7/8 meters
    • Enemies struck are disarmed for 6/8/10/12 seconds - this has great synergy with all his other skills, since they are "zone" effects, as melee enemies have to rush in to these "zones")
    • Meleeing during Tidal Surge will cancel the ability early (which also triggers its ending slash-damage effect early), while also performing a slide-attack with your melee weapon! Jumping during Tidal Surge cancels the ability early without any other effect.
    • Holdcast sends only the wave forward, without having Hydroid travelling along with it - functioning kinda like a big "push" ability.
      • Unlike the tapcast version, this one cannot be cancelled.
    • Enemies shooting through the surge will have their damage nullified! This makes the holdcast version a little bit safer to use too.
    • The ragdolling effect of Tidal Surge is made more gentle, just enough to deposit enemies a little bit in front of the wave when it ends.
      • This makes it better for gathering enemies at desired locations.
    • Augment: Tidal Impunity - Simply needs to be fixed from its bugs (it turns off the effect when recasting, and won't be available to be refreshed until the first one has "expired"...)
  • Undertow
    • Tapcast works just like now.
    • Holdcast causes Hydroid to place an Undertow pool at a distance (similar to how Loki places his Decoy). Max placement distance for this is 15/20/25/30 meters (affected by Ability Range)
      • A pool like this functions exactly the same as a Tapcast one (aside from the pool being static and your movement won't move the pool, and you can't shoot out any manual grab-tentacles, obviously).
    • Hydroid can go in and out of his pool by pressing to interact (default: X) while inside/on top of it. This works with both Tap- and Holdcast versions.
    • Max 1 pool can exist at a time
    • Just for clarification: If a pool is active (wether Hydroid is inside of it or not), casting the ability again removes the pool.
    • No longer drains additional energy while moving when submerged in Undertow.
    • Attacking enemies in the Undertow does not SPLIT the damage anymore. Furthermore, the damage-transfer is now 100% (instead of being reduced to 50%).
    • The manual tentaclegrab while inside a pool has its range increased to 10/15/20/25 meters.
    • Augment: Curative Undertow Treacherous Undertow - Undertow automatically tentacle-grabs an enemy (within the same range as the manual grab) every 5/4/3/2 seconds, and the damage of Undertow is increased by 10/20/30/50%.
  • Tentacle Swarm
    • No longer has a chargeup mechanic
      • Costs 100 energy and spawns 20 tentacles at base, at all times, and the spawn range for the tentacles is within a 8/10/12/15 meter radius
    • Synergy: If an Undertow is within a Tentacle Swarm's radius, all enemies in the Undertow takes additional damage as if they were all grabbed by Tentacle Swarm. This does NOT count towards the tentacle count.
      • Enemies killed in Undertow this way are subject to gain extra loot from Tentacle Swarm's augment!
      • Note: This damagecombo is added INSTEAD of the "2x damage for Tentacle Swarm when casting it from Undertow".
      • To indicate that this combo is taking place, the visible Kraken will show itself in the centre of Undertow, even if that is not the centre of Tentacle Swarm's cast.
    • Holdcasting Tentacle Swarm now toggles on/off wether you want the tentacles to be static, or move around. The tentacles' default setting is to move around, and whatever setting is toggled is memorized for subsequent casts.
      • When set to move around, they will move around inside of their spawning radius to go and grab enemies.
      • If an Undertow is within the swarm's spawning radius, the tentacle will move over to the Undertow and slam the enemy onto the Undertow, which also deposits this enemy into the Undertow.
        • When a tentacle places an enemy in Undertow like this, that tentacle is freed from action, allowing it to go and grab a new enemy.
        • Also remember the synergy mentioned a little above: This means that the enemy put inside the Undertow will suffer damage from both Undertow and Tentacle Swarm at the same time!
    • Attacking a tentacle will fully damage the grabbed enemy
    • Once a tentacle has grabbed an enemy, they will crush and choke it to death in a more steady fashion than now, only occassionally causing the current slam-attacks (which deals heavy impact damage in an AoE, and tries to slam enemies onto other nearby enemies).
    • If an enemy grabbed by a tentacle dies, that enemy is quickly tossed onto other enemies (or random location, if no visible enemies nearby). This throw also causes damage, with the same range and damage as the slam-attack.

 

Basicly, this massively removes a lot of Hydroid's RNG, and flips that around to instead make him a MASTER at zone-control! Undertow and Tentacle Swarm combined would make for a giant deathtrap area, while Tempest Barrage's debuffs helps speed up the killing-process, and Tidal Surge helps speed up the gathering process.

 

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On 2021-03-26 at 9:15 PM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The main problem is that he's technically a farm frame.  DE despises efficiency so he will most likely never get a rework because of the pilfering mod.  Can't make him stronger because resource farms might speed up.  Guarantee that's the main, REAL reason, despite anything they might ever eventually say about it.

As far as upsetting mains in concerned, credit where credit is due they normally do a really good job on reworking frames.  Hydroid and Frost are probably the only frames in the whole game I think are genuinely bad, and there's only maybe 3ish more I don't like.  (I'm not a fan of Octavia, Valkyr or Gara, despite knowing they're solid frames.  Just not my style.  You could maybe throw Inaros in here but I use him on a rare occasion because he's good at what he does despite being mind numbingly boring.)  The only rework I'm upset about is the last Saryn rework, and despite 100% knowing that she took a nerf for those that knew how to use her abilities, and knowing I preferred the old playstyle, she still came out really good after the rework.  I can't think of a bad rework off the top of my head, despite still strongly disagreeing with Saryn's.

I mean, Khora is still pretty strong and was changed recently. Atlas and Nekros can also farm loot and both were buffed at different times. Khora literally has a better Ultimate than Hydroid in general and it can very easily kill weaker enemies, and just like Hydroid the looting is only due to an Augment, so there's no reason to change it.

I'm pretty sure it's more because DE just hasn't gotten to Hydroid yet, because like Zephyr he hasn't been used much at all due to other Warframes literally taking his place in the roster. Just like Frost and Loki who are horrifically outdated, Hydroid needs some serious touch-ups (and honestly more of a facelift Ember style) to get him back to a good place.

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20 hours ago, Azamagon said:

And the sad thing is, they could do a Zephyr-like revisit on him with simply making the existing abilities more reliable, more cohesive and less overlapping.

It's not that hard:

  Hide contents
  • Passive
    • Tentacle Slam - Now 100% chance to occur on slams.
    • Mistform (added passive) - Hydroid turns invulnerable for 3 seconds when he would otherwise die. This has a 120 second cooldown, and is reduced by 1 second for every enemy killed who have been affected by one of his abilities (can max reduce the cooldown by 90 seconds from this interaction).
  • Tempest Barrage
    • No longer has a chargemechanic.
      • Duration is still only 2/3/4/5 seconds, but damage is increased to 100/150/200/300 Impact damage
    • No longer ragdolls enemies (should only occur on an enemy's death)
    • Each explosion knocks down enemies (REGULAR knockdown, not the ragdolling kind)
    • Each explosion reduces the enemy's current armor and shields by 2/2/2/3%, affected by Ability Strength
    • Augment: Corroding Barrage Abyssal Barrage  - Each explosion also has a 50/100/150/200% chance to cause Cold-procs on enemies, while restoring 5/10/15/20 shields to allies struck by the explosions. Can create overshields.
  • Tidal Surge
    • Base width is increased to 5/6/7/8 meters
    • Enemies struck are disarmed for 6/8/10/12 seconds - this has great synergy with all his other skills, since they are "zone" effects, as melee enemies have to rush in to these "zones")
    • Meleeing during Tidal Surge will cancel the ability early (which also triggers its ending slash-damage effect early), while also performing a slide-attack with your melee weapon! Jumping during Tidal Surge cancels the ability early without any other effect.
    • Holdcast sends only the wave forward, without having Hydroid travelling along with it - functioning kinda like a big "push" ability.
      • Unlike the tapcast version, this one cannot be cancelled.
    • Enemies shooting through the surge will have their damage nullified! This makes the holdcast version a little bit safer to use too.
    • The ragdolling effect of Tidal Surge is made more gentle, just enough to deposit enemies a little bit in front of the wave when it ends.
      • This makes it better for gathering enemies at desired locations.
    • Augment: Tidal Impunity - Simply needs to be fixed from its bugs (it turns off the effect when recasting, and won't be available to be refreshed until the first one has "expired"...)
  • Undertow
    • Tapcast works just like now.
    • Holdcast causes Hydroid to place an Undertow pool at a distance (similar to how Loki places his Decoy). Max placement distance for this is 15/20/25/30 meters (affected by Ability Range)
      • A pool like this functions exactly the same as a Tapcast one (aside from the pool being static and your movement won't move the pool, and you can't shoot out any manual grab-tentacles, obviously).
    • Hydroid can go in and out of his pool by pressing to interact (default: X) while inside/on top of it. This works with both Tap- and Holdcast versions.
    • Max 1 pool can exist at a time
    • Just for clarification: If a pool is active (wether Hydroid is inside of it or not), casting the ability again removes the pool.
    • No longer drains additional energy while moving when submerged in Undertow.
    • Attacking enemies in the Undertow does not SPLIT the damage anymore. Furthermore, the damage-transfer is now 100% (instead of being reduced to 50%).
    • The manual tentaclegrab while inside a pool has its range increased to 10/15/20/25 meters.
    • Augment: Curative Undertow Treacherous Undertow - Undertow automatically tentacle-grabs an enemy (within the same range as the manual grab) every 5/4/3/2 seconds, and the damage of Undertow is increased by 10/20/30/50%.
  • Tentacle Swarm
    • No longer has a chargeup mechanic
      • Costs 100 energy and spawns 20 tentacles at base, at all times, and the spawn range for the tentacles is within a 8/10/12/15 meter radius
    • Synergy: If an Undertow is within a Tentacle Swarm's radius, all enemies in the Undertow takes additional damage as if they were all grabbed by Tentacle Swarm. This does NOT count towards the tentacle count.
      • Enemies killed in Undertow this way are subject to gain extra loot from Tentacle Swarm's augment!
      • Note: This damagecombo is added INSTEAD of the "2x damage for Tentacle Swarm when casting it from Undertow".
      • To indicate that this combo is taking place, the visible Kraken will show itself in the centre of Undertow, even if that is not the centre of Tentacle Swarm's cast.
    • Holdcasting Tentacle Swarm now toggles on/off wether you want the tentacles to be static, or move around. The tentacles' default setting is to move around, and whatever setting is toggled is memorized for subsequent casts.
      • When set to move around, they will move around inside of their spawning radius to go and grab enemies.
      • If an Undertow is within the swarm's spawning radius, the tentacle will move over to the Undertow and slam the enemy onto the Undertow, which also deposits this enemy into the Undertow.
        • When a tentacle places an enemy in Undertow like this, that tentacle is freed from action, allowing it to go and grab a new enemy.
        • Also remember the synergy mentioned a little above: This means that the enemy put inside the Undertow will suffer damage from both Undertow and Tentacle Swarm at the same time!
    • Attacking a tentacle will fully damage the grabbed enemy
    • Once a tentacle has grabbed an enemy, they will crush and choke it to death in a more steady fashion than now, only occassionally causing the current slam-attacks (which deals heavy impact damage in an AoE, and tries to slam enemies onto other nearby enemies).
    • If an enemy grabbed by a tentacle dies, that enemy is quickly tossed onto other enemies (or random location, if no visible enemies nearby). This throw also causes damage, with the same range and damage as the slam-attack.

 

Basicly, this massively removes a lot of Hydroid's RNG, and flips that around to instead make him a MASTER at zone-control! Undertow and Tentacle Swarm combined would make for a giant deathtrap area, while Tempest Barrage's debuffs helps speed up the killing-process, and Tidal Surge helps speed up the gathering process.

 

Honestly? There's only three things DE can do with Hydroid's Passive.

- Make the Passive actually buff Ground Slam Attacks, though realistically that kind of Passive would make more sense on Rhino and still doesn't make much sense for Hydroid's kit regardless.
- Create a circle of tendrils around Hydroid that do something the other tendrils don't do normally. Maybe have these ones act as automatic Undertow Tendrils that drag enemies close to the origin point? Keep it to just two or three tendrils and it'll be fine, the pull is guaranteed but you can only pull a few enemies at a time with each slam. Just reduce the tentacle range to like 12 meters for the pull at max or something.
- Remove the Passive entirely and just give Hydroid a different Passive. He is a pirate, why not make it related to Credits or Resources you pick up? How about a Passive that affects his enemies as long as his abilities have hit them, like a speed debuff?

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