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I disagree with moving Oberon and Ash parts to Railjack.


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6 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

The real kicker here is that newbies no longer have access to a frame that can heal (Nezha is the next easiest, but needs a clan - and not everybody has one). Since they won't exactly have access to operator arcanes or focus powers to heal, that's a pretty big problem.

I also used to think this was a Problem but in truth I think a larger issue is not having Energy to Delete/CC the enemies that could Hurt you....

I actually have a few Frames I run without Vitality just because I think This Tactic is more effective than having Healing and My Experience playing with Mag when I first Started wouldn't be so Crappy...

6 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nezha is a healer as much as nekros is but i wouldnt call either of them healers. oberon isnt that much of a healer either. trinity is the only healer. the others are just support.

I'm pretty sure both Nezha and Nekros can keep everybody Topped off with Those Orbs early on... Trinity only really outclassed them when S#&$ gets Real...

6 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

ok so replace hydroid with oberon and put hydroid where?

Uranus ?

 

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36 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I also used to think this was a Problem but in truth I think a larger issue is not having Energy to Delete/CC the enemies that could Hurt you....

I actually have a few Frames I run without Vitality just because I think This Tactic is more effective than having Healing and My Experience playing with Mag when I first Started wouldn't be so Crappy...

I'm pretty sure both Nezha and Nekros can keep everybody Topped off with Those Orbs early on... Trinity only really outclassed them when S#&$ gets Real...

Uranus ?

 

just like anything can that drops health orbs. protea can do this too. it doesnt make her a healer though.

read the other comments. then move equinox to? then next? then next? again a frame is going to end up in a place someone isnt going to like.

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2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

just like anything can that drops health orbs. protea can do this too. it doesnt make her a healer though

Doesn't it ?

Infact she's better at it than Nezha and Nekros because she doesn't even need Enemies to Drop them Orbs 😲 !!!

3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

read the other comments. then move equinox to? then next? then next? again a frame is going to end up in a place someone isnt going to like.

As long as that Frame is NYX I'm sure it won't be so Bad... 😁 !!!

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Just now, Lutesque said:

Doesn't it ?

Infact she's better at it than Nezha and Nekros because she doesn't even need Enemies to Drop them Orbs 😲 !!!

As long as that Frame is NYX I'm sure it won't be so Bad... 😁 !!!

it doesnt. but im not saying that they arent support. new players still have access to a few support frames until they reach trinity or oberon.

people hate nyx. i dont. not that i dont have my complaints but id rather play nyx than play hydroid.

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7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nezha is a healer as much as nekros is but i wouldnt call either of them healers. oberon isnt that much of a healer either. trinity is the only healer. the others are just support. 

in the support type there is still rhino. rhino get anyone up to where they can get trinity or oberon. what im saying is new players still have access to support frames. 

Removing more options is not a proper move. Can you imagine telling newbies how we used to have more stuff in the base game for newbies that have since moved to some vet focus content. And since this has to repeated over and over again. We don't want more fodder in the already bloated drop table, It's insulting to get a part you've already have over a thousand time(that used to be in a better drop spot), than getting new and better rewards. It's bloat, it's got to go, just like all the bad decisions and nerfs we've received this update.

 

Also blessing is overated when you still can't heal defectioneers without low duration.

Edited by (NSW)Dangruff
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19 minutes ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

Removing more options is not a proper move. Can you imagine telling newbies how we used to have more stuff in the base game for newbies that have since moved to some vet focus content. And since this has to repeated over and over again. We don't want more fodder in the already bloated drop table, It's insulting to get a part you've already have over a thousand time(that used to be in a better drop spot), than getting new and better rewards. It's bloat, it's got to go, just like all the bad decisions and nerfs we've received this update.

 

Also blessing is overated when you still can't heal defectioneers without low duration.

no one is disputing bloat but thats and old issue. of course things will be spread out more as more areas are added to the game thats a given.

blessing isnt overrated as there is no other heal that can heal you to full health/shield while also giving you 75% DR. people want to down play trin rather than accepting facts. her healing is the strongest in the game. no one gives faster energy than she does.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

no one is disputing bloat but thats and old issue. of course things will be spread out more as more areas are added to the game thats a given.

blessing isnt overrated as there is no heal that can heal you to full health/shield while also giving you 75% DR. people want to down play trin rather than accepting facts. her healing is the strongest in the game. no one gives faster energy than she does.

*laughs in zenurik*

Just because it's old doesn't mean it should be ignored. its DE insistence in pushing new buggy content that's given this game it's spaghetti tier coding. However the point still stands, that moving old perfecting fine content and using it as hostage/placeholder still new content fills new game mode. Is an incredibly bad move. Even worse since many people have given good alternatives to the problem.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

*laughs in zenurik*

Just because it's old doesn't mean it should be ignored. its DE insistence in pushing new buggy content that's given this game it's spaghetti tier coding. However the point still stands, that moving old perfecting fine content and using it as hostage/placeholder still new content fills new game mode. Is an incredibly bad move. Even worse since many people have given good alternatives to the problem.

im sorry, can zenurik instantly fill energy at the press of a button? no.

who is saying it should be ignored. all i said is that it is an old issue. in a long list of old issues. 

Edit: actually better question. can zenurik be made to instantly fill energy and give shield/overshield at the press of a button? no.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

im sorry, can zenurik instantly fill energy at the press of a button? no.

who is saying it should be ignored. all i said is that it is an old issue. in a long list of old issues. 

Does zenurik fill a slot that could have been used for another frame. No. Zeny can be used by anyone.

It's a recent issue and one no one absolutely likes. Want to entice people in new game mode that 90% of the playerbase won't drop within a month, and then *@##$ and moan since it has no content? Give new content, not swapping old content to fill in your now divisive game mode. Or add old event items into it.

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Just now, (NSW)Dangruff said:

Does zenurik fill a slot that could have been used for another frame. No. Zeny can be used by anyone.

It's a recent issue and one no one absolutely likes. Want to entice people in new game mode that 90% of the playerbase won't drop within a month, and then *@##$ and moan since it has no content? Give new content, not swapping old content to fill in your now divisive game mode. Or add old event items into it.

personal preference does not trump factual information. Trinity is the strongest healer in the game. thats fact.

no its not a recent issue. its been a very long time one which is why DE has always tried changing tables many discussion have been made about this. i personally offered 2 solutions. 

1. Move them to dojo

2. switch from drop tables to token system. 

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6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

personal preference does not trump factual information. Trinity is the strongest healer in the game. thats fact.

no its not a recent issue. its been a very long time one which is why DE has always tried changing tables many discussion have been made about this. i personally offered 2 solutions. 

1. Move them to dojo

2. switch from drop tables to token system. 

healing becomes pointless in late game where thing die faster than you do. And Oberon is a very accessible self heal and casty new frame and a decent cred source,

Moving oberon and ash is very recent. And not a change anyone likes. For most part everyone wants it reverted back to its original drop location. Also is this you?

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by (NSW)Dangruff
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7 minutes ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

healing becomes pointless in the game where thing die faster than you do.

Moving oberon and ash is very recent. And not a change anyone likes. For most part everyone wants it reverted back to its original drop location. Also is this you?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

let them remove all healing and see what the game looks like after. 

im not disagreeing about ash and obe. again im not against them being where people can get them enjoyably but drop table dilution is an old problem not a new one.

that is not me but i agree with him. i used to spam sortie. when i just only got ayatan/endo i was on board with a token system. days of just getting anything from the common pool is just crazy.

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1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

it doesnt. but im not saying that they arent support. new players still have access to a few support frames until they reach trinity or oberon.

 

But they are Healing.... So they are Healers are they not ? 

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

But they are Healing.... So they are Healers are they not ? 

being able to pop up some health orbs does not make you a healer. when you play enough games with healing classes and support classes that have some kind of small healing, youll know the difference. 

thats like saying bards in rift are healers only they arent. they can only be queued as support or DPS and not as healing yet they have 1 skill that does a little healing.

Edit: trinity is a prime example of a dedicated healer. oberon, rhino, nezha, nekros, and protea are prime examples of a support class because their kits are designed to do various things where trinity's kit is designed for healing.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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16 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nezha is a healer as much as nekros is but i wouldnt call either of them healers. oberon isnt that much of a healer either. trinity is the only healer. the others are just support. 

in the support type there is still rhino. rhino get anyone up to where they can get trinity or oberon. what im saying is new players still have access to support frames. 

Is Oberon a proper, dedicated healer? No. But he *can* heal. Newbies will not have access to Trinity. She's right at the end of the starchart behind an incredibly annoying boss with its own stupid key system.

Oberon is a decent stepping stone to a full healer - he *can* heal, but he can also deal damage, inflict some CC and cure debuffs on allies. More importantly, he used to be accessible. Not any more.

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20 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

being able to pop up some health orbs does not make you a healer. when you play enough games with healing classes and support classes that have some kind of small healing, youll know the difference

It does if the end Result is... You know.... Actually Healing your Team Mates....

And I have played games with Healing Classes.... Their Ability to Heal is what makes them Healers right ? Sooooo shouldn't any Frame that provides Substantial Healing be consider a Healer ?

20 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 

thats like saying bards in rift are healers only they arent. they can only be queued as support or DPS and not as healing yet they have 1 skill that does a little healing

If the Healing is little that's Fair Enough.... I wouldn't say Gara, for example is a Healer simply because Mending Splinters just doesn't give a Substantial amount of Healing....

But Protea, Nekros and Nezha do.... Soooo ? They should be Healers right ?

20 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 

Edit: trinity is a prime example of a dedicated healer. oberon, rhino, nezha, nekros, and protea are prime examples of a support class because their kits are designed to do various things where trinity's kit is designed for healing

A Warframe can be Multiple things.... Even if they are not Equally good at those things doesn't mean they can't be classified as those things....

 

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10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

It does if the end Result is... You know.... Actually Healing your Team Mates....

And I have played games with Healing Classes.... Their Ability to Heal is what makes them Healers right ? Sooooo shouldn't any Frame that provides Substantial Healing be consider a Healer ?

If the Healing is little that's Fair Enough.... I wouldn't say Gara, for example is a Healer simply because Mending Splinters just doesn't give a Substantial amount of Healing....

But Protea, Nekros and Nezha do.... Soooo ? They should be Healers right ?

A Warframe can be Multiple things.... Even if they are not Equally good at those things doesn't mean they can't be classified as those things....

 

again it doesnt make them a healer.  DPS, Support, Healer, Tank. these are classifications most people are familiar with. just because someone who is support can do a little bit of healing it doesnt make them a healer. the support role does various things and again trinity is designed to heal. 

i could very well say DE should make more healer frames since trinity is the only (by classification) healer. what DE did though is they went the route arena net did. there is no healer in Guild Wars 2 only classes that have a survivability skill that heals them.

 

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there are other support frames that can do some healing to like harrow, and garuda. many options in place of oberon, many DPS options in place of ash as well. but like i said. eventually a frame will get moved into a place someone will not like. we all want DE to address this but what can we do if they decide that this is how they want to do it after the feedback? get used to it like all things.

 

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1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

again it doesnt make them a healer.  DPS, Support, Healer, Tank. these are classifications most people are familiar with. 

My point was those Classification are not Mutually Exclusive.... a Warfrane can be Both Healer and DPS....

 

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the support role does various things and again trinity is designed to heal. 

Trinity also happens to be the Highest Damage Dealer in the Game... Hence she's DPS too.... The DR on blessing and Link also makes her Tank....

See what I'm getting at ?

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

just because someone who is support can do a little bit of healing it doesnt make them a healer.

Hence why I mentioned Gara's Mending Splinters.... That's only alil bit... I haven't really been able to Actually heal anything with that.... But with Protea's Dispenser I can... Because it's more than "Just Alil Bit".... Same with Nekros & Nezha...

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26 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

My point was those Classification are not Mutually Exclusive.... a Warfrane can be Both Healer and DPS....

 

Trinity also happens to be the Highest Damage Dealer in the Game... Hence she's DPS too.... The DR on blessing and Link also makes her Tank....

See what I'm getting at ?

Hence why I mentioned Gara's Mending Splinters.... That's only alil bit... I haven't really been able to Actually heal anything with that.... But with Protea's Dispenser I can... Because it's more than "Just Alil Bit".... Same with Nekros & Nezha...

trinity is not the highest damage dealer in the game. if you dont know healers need to able to live to heal. dedicated healers in other games also had their own kind of shielding to protect themselves doesnt make them a tank. 

support role is fitting for those frames because of the variety in their skill set. inaros is an assassin but people consider him to be a tank because of his ability to self heal. nezha is considered tank because of his DR, ember? tank because of DR. gauss? tank because of DR. see what im getting at. 

you are downplaying support because you think that the small healing they do is enough to consider them a healer. they are support frames designed to do various things. Trinity is a healer.

there is no reason to continue this. dont agree? thats fine. agree that we disagree.

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4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

trinity is not the highest damage dealer in the game.

She is.... Since Energy Vampire deals True Damage in Percentages her Kill Speed is consistent across all enemy levelz (but not all enemy Types)....ergo.... Eventually where other DPS Warframe's in the game begin to Slow down as Enemies Scale... Trinity's will remain Consistent.... My build can kill all enemies within 3 Casts of Energy Vampire.... I tried to get it to just 2 but didn't have the Capacity to slot in all the Power Mods.

8 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

dedicated healers in other games also had their own kind of shielding to protect themselves doesnt make them a tank. 

The Ability to Absorbed Damage that would otherwise kill a Standard Warframe is exactly what makes her Tank.... 

Now if she was Using a Shield like Volt or Garuda then that would be a Different Story.... But since she's taking shots to the Face... I'd Say she's A Tank...

10 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

support role is fitting for those frames because of the variety in their skill set.

Makes Sense.... 

11 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

inaros is an assassin but people consider him to be a tank because of his ability to self heal.

How can you be an Assassin if you less Effective at actually Assassinating Anything than even non-Assassin Archetypes ? 🤔...

Also Inaros is a Tank because he can still Take a Beating even without the ability to Self Heal...

Garuda can Self Heal but she's definitely no Tank.... You think she would last long without those Blood Fountains ? Same goes for Wisp....

15 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nezha is considered tank because of his DR, ember? tank because of DR. gauss? tank because of DR. see what im getting at. 

Nope...

I mean Yes I see they're all Tanks but They are also all CC's and Buffers/Debuffers ..... So.... What are you getting at exactly ?

17 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you are downplaying support because you think that the small healing they do is enough to consider them a healer.

I'm pretty sure I said it wasn't Small... Ergo you are Accusing me of Something I didn't Say... 🤨

18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

there is no reason to continue this. dont agree? thats fine. agree that we disagree.

Depends on your Ability to Read... 

I can continue... Or not... Either way I'm good....

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  • 3 weeks later...

为什么就不能是中断阶段奖励呢,防御C系20波为了稳健就得换生存强的为了速度就得换攻击范围广的地图炮,这都是有车队前提下,事实是没有人会参加一个为了普通ASH部件花那么长的时间还很容易失败的车队,这还不如去开启遗物收集P部件换取ASHp版本

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