PhoenixElite Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Title; there's no reason for this "skin" to be a skin, or even be called a skin, it SHOULD be a whole new ship Not like abilities are even paired with ships anymore, so this being a purely paid cosmetic is perfectly fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 No, it should NOT be a new ship. We should NOT be locking new ships behind a paywall. DE decided to NOT make a ship P2P and I agree with them. Deluxe Cosmetics are cosmetic skins, not new items, and SHOULD remain cosmetic skins. A new Landing Craft unlocks a new Liset call ability (which you can then equip paired to any Landing Craft you want). What you are asking for is to make a plat-exclusive Liset call ability - and I entirely shun you and your pay-to-play ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrivaMain Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 No. It will create a “pay to win” scenario. Which is what Warframe is trying to avoid to make it stand out among other F2P games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazerXPrime Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 I bought the skin and for a moment I felt like: aw this is not a new ship, but just a skin. But then. I agree with what Dhrekr posted. Warframe should be free aside from cosmetics. So no a new ship should not be paid only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixElite Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 11 hours ago, Dhrekr said: No, it should NOT be a new ship. We should NOT be locking new ships behind a paywall. DE decided to NOT make a ship P2P and I agree with them. Deluxe Cosmetics are cosmetic skins, not new items, and SHOULD remain cosmetic skins. A new Landing Craft unlocks a new Liset call ability (which you can then equip paired to any Landing Craft you want). What you are asking for is to make a plat-exclusive Liset call ability - and I entirely shun you and your pay-to-play ideas. 10 hours ago, DrivaMain said: No. It will create a “pay to win” scenario. Which is what Warframe is trying to avoid to make it stand out among other F2P games. Ships do not have abilities any more, there is no pay2win at all here, as I've already said, they're purely cosmetic Regardless of what ship you have equipped, you can use any ability, and the arclite doesn't even come with one. You guys are arguing against the wrong thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 40 minutes ago, PhoenixElite said: Ships do not have abilities any more, there is no pay2win at all here, as I've already said, they're purely cosmetic So. Let me explain. Orbiter 101 for noobs. The abilities are unlocked by obtaining the Landing Craft. For instance, I do not have Sentry Turret, I can't equip it on my Liset nor on my Nightwave. Why not? Because I have not build Xiphos. No Xiphos, no Sentry Turret. Once you unlock the Landing Craft, you can then equip any unlocked ability on any unlocked Landing Craft. So, if I unlocked Xiphos, I could equip Sentry Turret while using the Nightwave Landing Craft, which I have unlocked. I hope that wasn't too technical. I know, this is really hard stuff. So now you can see. All "ships" (I mean, all Landing Crafts) come with an ability. The Arclite Landing Craft's ability would be completely platinum-exclusive. Your idea is therefore pay-to-play. Also, the Arclite skin being a skin is not a problem. It is "purely cosmetic", and it does what it has to do. By making it a different Landing Craft you gain NOTHING (it is still purely cosmetic) and introduce a pay-to-play element, which I find DISGUSTING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixElite Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 42 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: So. Let me explain. Orbiter 101 for noobs. The abilities are unlocked by obtaining the Landing Craft. For instance, I do not have Sentry Turret, I can't equip it on my Liset nor on my Nightwave. Why not? Because I have not build Xiphos. No Xiphos, no Sentry Turret. Once you unlock the Landing Craft, you can then equip any unlocked ability on any unlocked Landing Craft. So, if I unlocked Xiphos, I could equip Sentry Turret while using the Nightwave Landing Craft, which I have unlocked. I hope that wasn't too technical. I know, this is really hard stuff. So now you can see. All "ships" (I mean, all Landing Crafts) come with an ability. The Arclite Landing Craft's ability would be completely platinum-exclusive. Your idea is therefore pay-to-play. Also, the Arclite skin being a skin is not a problem. It is "purely cosmetic", and it does what it has to do. By making it a different Landing Craft you gain NOTHING (it is still purely cosmetic) and introduce a pay-to-play element, which I find DISGUSTING. First, chill with the know-it-all attitude, you're being rude for no reason. Second, DE has already unpaired landing crafts from their abilities, you can equip any ability on any landing craft. Third, you are arguing that this is p2w because the arclite would have an ability. No one is saying that it will have an ability, and it shouldn't have one, for obvious reasons. Fourth, there is a problem with arclite being a skin. Landing craft don't have Config options, if you want to use the arclite, you need to entirely replace the model of a ship you have with the arclite, and that results in having to change the colors around. There is no reason Arclite should be a skin instead of a new ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, PhoenixElite said: Third, you are arguing that this is p2w because the arclite would have an ability. No one is saying that it will have an ability, and it shouldn't have one, for obvious reasons. Now repeat with me. You'll find me very rude because I'm talking to you like you are five years old, but... well, here we are. "All Landing Crafts come with an ability." "Skins have no ability." Saying "make arclite a landing craft and not a skin"means also "give arclite an ability". I know you don't want to attach an ability to Arclite. But it is what you are doing whether you want it or not. 15 minutes ago, PhoenixElite said: Fourth, there is a problem with arclite being a skin. Landing craft don't have Config options, if you want to use the arclite, you need to entirely replace the model of a ship you have with the arclite, and that results in having to change the colors around. A minor inconvenience. 15 minutes ago, PhoenixElite said: There is no reason Arclite should be a skin instead of a new ship. There is NO Landing Craft without an ability. That's why Arclite is a skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixElite Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: Now repeat with me. You'll find me very rude because I'm talking to you like you are five years old, but... well, here we are. Still being unnecessarily rude, a classic. Now this is just an assumption, and I'm sure you'll try, but my guess as to why DE unpaired landing crafts from abilities is for 2 reasons. 1; because people didn't like having to use a specific ship for it's ability, and 2; so they wouldn't have to make up a new ability each time they make a new landing craft. 7 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: Saying "make arclite a landing craft and not a skin"means also "give arclite an ability". The fact that it is not your intention is of no interest to anyone. The 2 are not mutually exclusive, and your statement of my "intention" is presumptuous and bears no significance to my actual suggestion 10 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: A minor inconvenience. Okay, and? Wanna know what else was a minor inconvenience? Not being able to have more than 3 config slots, or not having loadout slots, that was changed, amongst many others. 12 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: There is NO Landing Craft without an ability. That's why Arclite is a skin. And, why can't that change? Would you rather that every time DE adds a new ship/skin, it's a whole new model for an already existing ship? Because that's a pretty bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, PhoenixElite said: Now this is just an assumption, and I'm sure you'll try, but my guess as to why DE unpaired landing crafts from abilities is for 2 reasons. 1; because people didn't like having to use a specific ship for it's ability, and 2; so they wouldn't have to make up a new ability each time they make a new landing craft. ALL Landing Crafts have an ability. NO skin has an ability. That goes for Landing Crafts released after this unpairing (Nightwave springs to mind) and for skins released after this unpairing (Arclite). Your guess is... well... I don't want you to feel too insulted so I'll just say "entirely antagonistic to facts". And as long as DE are operating like this (LCs with abilities, skins without), your idea, as far as I am concerned, is poison. And of course DE can change the way they operate - and if you want them to, please, open a thread to ask for it, instead of opening a thread tha accidentally asks for an ability to be pay-to-play. By the way, a simple fix to the minor inconvenience that bothers you is to give three appearence tabs A,B,C to each Landing Craft, so that you can install your Liset on A, your Arclite on B, and never have to fiddle with the colours. That is a simple fix, a system that already exists in game, and IS NOT PAY-TO-PLAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixElite Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: ALL Landing Crafts have an ability. NO skin has an ability. That goes for Landing Crafts released after this unpairing (Nightwave springs to mind) and for skins released after this unpairing (Arclite). The nightwave ship came out in 27.5 The unpairing of abilities happened in 28 7 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: Your guess is... well... I don't want you to feel too insulted so I'll just say "entirely antagonistic to facts". How exactly? My guess is quite literally just a guess and an assumption that makes logical sense. 14 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: And as long as DE are operating like this (LCs with abilities, skins without), your idea, as far as I am concerned, is poison. And of course DE can change the way they operate - and if you want them to, please, open a thread to ask for it, instead of opening a thread tha accidentally asks for an ability to be pay-to-play. Strawman, massive strawman. Your entire argument is based off "it'll be p2w." Numerous times, I have said that it's not, because there's nothing "2play" about it, it's purely cosmetic, but you constantly insist that it's p2w because previous landing crafts have come with an ability. Yes, they have, and that was also before the unpairing of abilities. Just because it has been one way, up until the nightwave ship, doesn't mean that it should stay that way. What I'm suggesting is far better, long-term. 23 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: By the way, a simple fix to the minor inconvenience that bothers you is to give three appearence tabs A,B,C to each Landing Craft, so that you can install your Liset on A, your Arclite on B, and never have to fiddle with the colours. That is a simple fix, a system that already exists in game, and IS NOT PAY-TO-PLAY. A simple fix, yes, but not the best, especially long-term. As more skins come out, most likely more than actual landing craft, due to the increased effort of having to have abilities, there will be far more skins than landing crafts. The best idea would be to entirely separate landing crafts from abilities, instead of getting the ability from making the landing craft, you get the ability specifically from farming the ability unlock itself. That's an entirely different suggestion tho. 54 minutes ago, Dhrekr said: That is a simple fix, a system that already exists in game, and IS NOT PAY-TO-PLAY. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you meant p2w, and again, I will ask that you actually read and comprehend what I said, because what I'm suggesting has nothing to do with buying anything "2 win" This will be my last message in response to you because I believe I've explained myself enough, and if you disagree, that's fine, but any further discourse wouldn't be meaningful as we are both going around in circles and you insist on calling my suggestion 'p2w' without anything to support it, amongst others. I fully expect a response, possibly being vaguely rude at the least, but I won't be replying any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazerXPrime Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Wow this has derailed quickly. Just ignore him. He will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherPigeon Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 On 2021-03-30 at 7:00 AM, Dhrekr said: It is almost as if DE thought that making it a Landing Craft would require giving it an ability, which would automatically be platinum-gated. It is almost as if DE thought that making it a Landing Craft would introduce a pay-to-play element. One oddity is: landing crafts and abilities have been decoupled recently. At this point, landing craft are effectively just skins with a sub-skin (the livery). Ideally, the Arclite craft would be a new craft (with the option for liveries) but no bundled ability. But clearly, the system isn't quite setup like that, so it's an universal livery instead, which works well enough even if it's kludgey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 7 hours ago, EtherPigeon said: At this point, landing craft are effectively just skins with a sub-skin (the livery). Ideally, the Arclite craft would be a new craft (with the option for liveries) but no bundled ability. The difference between a craft and a skin is 100% the fact that a craft unlocks an ability and a skin doesn't. There is absolutely no other distinction. That and the fact that skins have to be equipped on top of crafts. And, being that true, saying "just make it a craft that doesn't unlock an ability" is the same thing as "make it a skin". Because a craft that doesn't unlock an ability is a skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeWurrum Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 On 2021-03-29 at 1:08 AM, Dhrekr said: No, it should NOT be a new ship. We should NOT be locking new ships behind a paywall. DE decided to NOT make a ship P2P and I agree with them. Deluxe Cosmetics are cosmetic skins, not new items, and SHOULD remain cosmetic skins. A new Landing Craft unlocks a new Liset call ability (which you can then equip paired to any Landing Craft you want). What you are asking for is to make a plat-exclusive Liset call ability - and I entirely shun you and your pay-to-play ideas. You make it sound like there's not a super-easy solution to this... Make the Arclite model itself a new ship, but make the Harrier Deluxe skin for it unique to the Harrier Deluxe package. Every other Landing Craft that isn't "behind a pay wall" is so ridiculously impossible to farm, that you'd have to be on crack to actually enjoy the grind. It's worse than the grind for any weapon or frame in the game. I also don't see why you think it's a bad idea to get more Air Support abilities. It makes *no damn sense* to release a "new ship" as a skin to Landing Crafts that are, themselves... already nothing more than Landing Craft skins. On top of the fact that each type of ship does have it's own selection of unique paintjob-type skins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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