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Mission Failed - An outdated game style for the warframe universe.


Famecans

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If the frame is alive the game should not ban the player from the mission, if the mission fails the player should not lose everything, this is more immersion in the warframe universe because the universe will not control the player, the player must lose his resources only if the frame loses all lives, if the frame dies the lotus will a fictitious ransom without redeem resources.

All maps will be similar to plains of eidolon and orb vallis, there we have missions to win or fail but all the collected resources are kept in the inventory and the player can escape at the gate. the player must extract his resources from anywhere on the map with a consumable extraction item.

How will the player extract from the mission, without completing the mission?

  • For quick and immediate extraction the player must use an extraction consumable item, the extraction animation will be similar to the railjack omni teleport and this teleport/extraction will start 10 second global extraction timer.
  • If the player is solo, the extraction will be immediate.
  • If the player is in a team, the 10-second timer will be visible globally before extraction.
  • If the player is a novice and does not have the extraction item he must explore the map until he finds the safe extraction area, locked doors can be opened temporarily for 20s with the parazon.
  • If the player wants to find the extraction site without exploring the map he must complete the mission, then the game will open all doors and display the exact extraction location on the map.
  • The extraction point is also displayed on the map if the player fails the mission.
  • If the player loses all lives the extraction will be done but collected resources will not be added to the player's account.
  • This style of extraction should be applied to all types of missions including arbitrations, if the warframe is alive and the player finds a safe zone he can extract his resources.
  • Ultimately, failing the mission will be the least rewarding way of extracting the player, wasting time and not gaining the best resources of the mission.
  • In teams, the extraction time of the game will be reset to 10 seconds, so if the player is in an extraction the timer will always start globally in 10 seconds.

The player does not find the safe zone, how will he extract?

  • There are currently many small rooms with a panel and this panel should act as a door mechanism, all panels can lock doors with the parazon and make a forced safe zone for 20 seconds.
  • If the player locks the door with an enemy inside the room the extractor item cannot be used, the player must kill the enemy and use the item within 20 seconds or find another safe room to extract.
  • "Abort Mission" in interface menu will be removed from the game so the player will be required to play or extract from the mission, this is similar to portals to safe zone present in RPG's but in warframe the extraction is not a void portal, the extraction will be similar to the railjack omni teleport.

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Some missions do not have an extraction zone, how will the player find the extraction zone?

  • Currently some missions only have a single safe zone, which is the spawn, this zone will function as the extraction zone similar to the eidolon plains gate, in which case if this zone has a door and a panel the player can lock and stay safe to extract and if this zone is open the player will need to stay alive similar to what is in the game today (these factors are already present in the game just need to be functional)

How not to fail a defense mission during extraction?

  • The mission will not fail during a sole extraction as sole extraction is immediate.
  • If the player is not on a team and wants to extract immediately he must go to the spawn or use an extractor item in a safe room.
  • If the player is on a team and wants to extract he must go to the spawn or go to a safe room and use a consumable, while the team will continue to protect the cryopod. The mission will not fail
  • The hordes menu will continue in each rotation game so if the player accepts the challenge he must protect the cryopod. Currently aborting the mission is tantamount to failing the mission, so the player needs to be aware of what he wants to do.

What will happen after the mission fails?

  • In survival missions, life support will be disabled and time will stop
  • In defense mission the objective will be destroyed and there will be no rewards with each rotation, the hordes will continue to attack tenno team, enemies will drop resources and provide xp.
  • In most defense missions the new target will be the player himself, the enemie level will continue to increase

How will the panels and doors work?

  • Interaction with panel is simple and quick, there are no hobbies to lock or unlock doors.
  • After quickly interacting with panel, the parazon will lock or unlock doors for 20 seconds.
  • After the parazon locks or unlocks doors, the player will see the 15-second countdown on same panel, this countdown avoids troll players and antgame strategies.
  • These panels can be used for game strategies, these panels can trap and arrest enemies.

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How does the extraction item work?

  • The extractor item is a consumable manufactured in the forge, the resources for manufacturing are rare but these resources must be more common than an orokin cell.
  • If the player is in a safe room or zone and there is no enemy in the field of view the extractor can be used, this will be similar to the grannum void portal. If the player is not in a team the extraction will be immediate, if the player is in a team the global 10-second timer will start.
  • If the door opens or the player is hit by enemies, the extraction will not be canceled.
  •  Using the extractor item in a team will start the extraction timer but using the item again will cancel the extraction timer instantly, canceling the timer will consume the item.

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These are some new messages for lotus and ordis:

  • Hello operator, the mission failed but the navigation is now ready for a new attack.
  • Operator, we rescued your warframe but no resources were found nearby.
  • Welcome operator, your railjack has been found and will be repaired immediately.

This is a modern game style and simplifies some interface menus, if the player enters a mission and presses "esc" key, only the "Resume" "Abilities / Combos" "Options" and "Log out" buttons will be displayed.

So far I have no suggestions for railjack because the railjack is not finished but for most missions it will be simplified / standardized. Everything will be similar as in plain missions, all the time played and resources collected will not be lost when extracting, everything will be more informative, fair and realistic in the game universe.

Please ignore my English mistakes and thanks for reading this far, Thks ❤️

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This seems like a lot of work and a lot of headache and I'm not sure what this offers beyond just separating mission failure (where resources are kept) and player death (where resources aren't).

That said (and admittedly slightly out of order)....

12 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Some missions do not have an extraction zone, how will the player find the extraction zone?

  • Currently some missions only have a single safe zone, which is the spawn, this zone will function as the extraction zone similar to the eidolon plains gate, in which case if this zone has a door and a panel the player can lock and stay safe to extract and if this zone is open the player will need to stay alive similar to what is in the game today (these factors are already present in the game just need to be functional)

For this kind of system, I don't see the bother with just putting an extract tile in the map on maps that currently don't have them. There's more than enough doors for it to fit in.

It also seems a lot more straightforward (and helps immersion) to have the player extract at said location on mission failure. Making them use some kind of consumable is a resource sink and that's all - there's not much of a point to the Tenno needing to call the very ship they used to get there, especially when it'll be waiting to pick them up on failure or success.

17 minutes ago, Famecans said:

The player does not find the safe zone, how will he extract?

Is this not answered earlier? See:

18 minutes ago, Famecans said:

The extraction point is also displayed on the map if the player fails the mission.

It seems sensible to have the extraction point marker show up on mission failure and the same way it does now in, say, Survival: after a rotation. I don't know why we'd need to make that more complicated by obscuring its location.

Overall it feels like you'd have a much simpler and easier time just throwing in an extraction tile into every map and working with that. No fuss with finding particular rooms (from where extraction doesn't make sense), but you still get the immersion bonus and ability to keep at least some of the goodies acquired. Same effect, simpler package.

21 minutes ago, Famecans said:

"Abort Mission" in interface menu will be removed from the game so the player will be required to play or extract from the mission, this is similar to portals to safe zone present in RPG's but in warframe the extraction is not a void portal, the extraction will be similar to the railjack omni teleport.

You have successfully made me hotkey my Alt+F4 button combination if I am ever interrupted in a mission. Congratulations.

The only thing this particular change does is makes players have to restart the client or log in again. It is solely an inconvenience.

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... I read all that and the only thing I got from it was "I don't want to be penalized by failing my mission"... Everything else is just a failed subterfuge attempt at masking it by presenting a lot of alternatives, that were made to desperately gain supporters for it, as justification...

... You really didn't need to do all this just to have people point out that if you've failed your mission then it was definitely your fault, willingly (despite trying hard not to fail it) or not, and you should be penalized for it... You should've just come out straight and said it in 10 words or less and the result would be the same.

 

You've just wasted your keyboard's lifetime for nothing. haha

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53 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Is this not answered earlier? See:

This is a common question and the answer is below, I was not able to express myself correctly. In this case, the answers to each question are listed below. 😂

 

53 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

It seems sensible to have the extraction point marker show up on mission failure and the same way it does now in, say, Survival: after a rotation. I don't know why we'd need to make that more complicated by obscuring its location.

Overall it feels like you'd have a much simpler and easier time just throwing in an extraction tile into every map and working with that. No fuss with finding particular rooms (from where extraction doesn't make sense), but you still get the immersion bonus and ability to keep at least some of the goodies acquired. Same effect, simpler package.

Private rooms are a quick option for players bored in chaotic missions and missions started accidentally. The map can be filled with infested enemies so all we need to do is lock a door and use the extractor item. Currently novice players are disconnected in the extraction because the extraction timer is very long and the level of play is very high, safe rooms can make extraction viable anywhere on the map, everything will be similar to the Grannum Void portal.

 

56 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

You have successfully made me hotkey my Alt+F4 button combination if I am ever interrupted in a mission. Congratulations.

The only thing this particular change does is makes players have to restart the client or log in again. It is solely an inconvenience.

Ok, now you made me change my mind 😅, I think you're right but the novice player will not do the Alt + F4 combination because there is the Logout button, the novice player will not do the Alt + f4 combination because the "Mission Fail" effect "will cease to exist, the novice player will enter the map to collect resources similar to plains and will be able to leave anywhere.

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28 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... I read all that and the only thing I got from it was "I don't want to be penalized by failing my mission"... Everything else is just a failed subterfuge attempt at masking it by presenting a lot of alternatives, that were made to desperately gain supporters for it, as justification...

... You really didn't need to do all this just to have people point out that if you've failed your mission then it was definitely your fault, willingly (despite trying hard not to fail it) or not, and you should be penalized for it... You should've just come out straight and said it in 10 words or less and the result would be the same.

 

You've just wasted your keyboard's lifetime for nothing. haha

I don't care about the penalty I entered on this map to take screenshots and exemplify the current style of play, I have 95% of the game's content, I just think it's fairer and simpler if the novice player understands that this is a loot RPG.

Warframe not in a 90s platform game, we don't need to cross a linear map, warframe is an RPG in a fictional universe in which machines can loot resources and traveling to space.

This is a direct comparison with most current RPGs, and the question is simple, what about the resources collected during the mission, the frame dropped his candy on the floor? 🤓

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8 minutes ago, Famecans said:

I don't care about the penalty I entered on this map to take screenshots and exemplify the current style of play, I have 95% of the game's content, I just think it's fairer and simpler if the novice player understands that this is a loot RPG.

Warframe not in a 90s platform game, we don't need to cross a linear map, warframe is an RPG in a fictional universe in which machines can loot resources and traveling to space.

This is a direct comparison with most current RPGs, and the question is simple, what about the resources collected during the mission, the frame dropped his candy on the floor? 🤓

OH~, so that's what your wall of text is all about?

 

... Then you've really wasted your keyboard for nothing... New players will just check youtube videos for it, instead of reading comprehensive posts like the one you just did...

 

... Do it like me, just help new clan members that are actually new players into all this... It works a lot better, and explained JIT style, which is what they like, or link this thread to them without any guarantees that they're going to read it. *scratches head*

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17 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

OH~, so that's what your wall of text is all about?

 

... Then you've really wasted your keyboard for nothing... New players will just check youtube videos for it, instead of reading comprehensive posts like the one you just did...

 

... Do it like me, just help new clan members that are actually new players into all this... It works a lot better, and explained JIT style, which is what they like, or link this thread to them without any guarantees that they're going to read it.

Hi friend, It is a pleasure to meet someone like me, we are aware that living is a waste of time, writing and reading walls of text is a waste of (t)li(m)fe, we all do this every day, this is just a realistic sinserity. 👁️‍🗨️

This topic is not intended for newbies, newbies are experiencing extraction failures and are unaware that warframe is a game like sonic the hedgehog, newbies are busy with exhausting tasks running from point A to point B, this post is for veterans or developers.

My clan is inactive of interactivity, I am one of the only active players. Me being a veteran player I don't know how to tell a novice player how he can have fun while I'm killing everything on the map

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... Ok, its quite late so~ let me see if I understood correctly...

32 minutes ago, Famecans said:

I just think it's fairer and simpler if the novice player understands that this is a loot RPG.

7 minutes ago, Famecans said:

This topic is not intended for newbies, newbies are experiencing extraction failures and are unaware that warframe is a game like sonic the hedgehog, newbies are busy with exhausting tasks running from point A to point B, this post is for veterans or developers.

... So, which is it?

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8 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... Let me see if I understood correctly...

... So, which is it?

Hypothetically there are no novice players here discussing this topic and the subject topic is to change the extraction system to simplify novice's goal, there are no factors in game telling the novice that the most important goal is to collect resources.

Currently the novice enters the mission to go from point A to point B but if the mission fails he returns to the orbital and needs to restart the entire route again and again 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Famecans said:

the subject topic is to change the extraction system to simplify novice's goal

... which, in the meantime, will also benefit you, right?

 

Look, I'm not saying that you're wrong asking for it... But if you said

26 minutes ago, Famecans said:

This topic is not intended for newbies, newbies are experiencing extraction failures and are unaware that warframe is a game like sonic the hedgehog, newbies are busy with exhausting tasks running from point A to point B, this post is for veterans or developers.

then how are you going to expect that newbie players (a.k.a. novice players, new players, noobs or whatever else that fits the bill...) are going to read it?

 

Also

9 minutes ago, Famecans said:

there are no factors in game telling the novice that the most important goal is to collect resources.

... There's the Foundry... And I'm pretty sure that blueprints asking for resources is a dead giveaway...

11 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Currently the novice enters the mission to go from point A to point B but if the mission fails he returns to the orbital and needs to restart the entire route again and again

New players run in Public Matchmaking because its set to default and they have no idea how to change it... Failure never happens due to the nature of Public Matchmaking.

And when they DO learn how to change it, they're so engraved into that kind of system that it won't matter.

 

Look, your intentions are good. But if this is a comprehensive explanation towards new players of how important resources are then don't take advantage of it and suggest the complete removal of failure consequences because, frankly, you just made a complete 180 from disagreeing with me to confirming that I'm right like I said before.

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

... I read all that and the only thing I got from it was "I don't want to be penalized by failing my mission"... Everything else is just a failed subterfuge attempt at masking it by presenting a lot of alternatives, that were made to desperately gain supporters for it, as justification...

(...)

... Being penalized for failing only compels the player to do better which, by coincidence, was something that was also said by DE (not with the exact same words)... And before you argue that my intention was to enter in direct conflict with you, keep in mind that my post is also intended for new players... Especially the part where it says

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

(...) if you've failed your mission then it was definitely your fault, willingly (despite trying hard not to fail it) or not, and you should be penalized for it... (...)

... New players only need to do better...

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Dude this is a serious discussion, I have a lot of grammatical errors up there in the first post but I don't know how to correct them, I'm not your enemy don't get me wrong
I’m here to answer all your arguments and fight for my topic, you can cite conflicting situations, I want to answer your criticisms

7 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:
2 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

(...) if you've failed your mission then it was definitely your fault, willingly (despite trying hard not to fail it) or not, and you should be penalized for it... (...)

... New players only need to do better...

I can understand this example, it is a great example "This is the game" "Losing is a factor of the Game" "The game can defeat me"
but the content of the game is increasing and I have an simple answer to these developers' argument:

RNG is not the game.                                                                                                            (ok this is going off topic)

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14 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

You really didn't need to do all this just to have people point out that if you've failed your mission then it was definitely your fault, willingly (despite trying hard not to fail it) or not, and you should be penalized for it... You should've just come out straight and said it in 10 words or less and the result would be the same.

Why, though? People always bring this up like it's an axiomatic fact, but nobody ever tries to defend it. In fact, I'm not sure I've heard a compelling case for why penalties for failure are even a good design decision in the first place. The only real non-ad-hominem argument I've heard on the matter is some version of "to offer incentive for doing well by proxy of offering disincentive for doing poorly." I personally find this argument not terribly compelling on its face as I've personally found that positive reinforcement works better in a teaching situation than negative reinforcement. I've taught classes at the local university for over a decade now, I've tried a variety of approaches, anecdotal though my experience may be. However, this entire line of conversation is generally pointless because video games are not a tournament sport. Competitive games in particular are not a competition between "winners" and "losers," where "losers" need to "git gud" and become "winners," instead. I personally find this approach to have a toxic long-term effect on the end user experience.

I'm of the opinion that players should be rewarded with partial credit for partial success, i.e. a "failed mission." More than that, I'm of the opinion that missions should offer less in the way of unitary primary objective and more in the way of an array of objectives - one primary and a host of secondary ones. Let players succeed at primary objectives, potentially attempt and fail secondary objectives and at least get to keep what they have so far. Sure, the "high stakes" gameplay of wagering more of one's time in an attempt to secure more rewards, but at the risk of losing ALL rewards has its place in some more hardcore games, ala "Dark Souls." Warframe is not one of those games. Railjack in particular is egregious in this regard because the basic mission structure requires a far larger time commitment than ground missions just to secure the primary objective, and thus enforces a much larger wager that legacy players usually wouldn't have taken. That's a higher barrier to entry.

And finally - it simply doesn't make sense within universe. I'm not referring to lust lore here (though that's part of it), but more to the experience as we see it. I go on a mission. I kill enemies and pick up items, presumably stored on my person. I fail a Defence objective which fails my mission... But I'm still standing, still carrying my loot, still inside the enemy craft. What exactly happens to rob me of these items and kick me back to my orbiter? Would it not make more sense to force me to extract anyway? "Tenno, the Capsule is lot. We've failed. Extract immediately - there's nothing left for us here." Survival does pretty much this exact thing. Once I've achieved 5 minutes, there is no more failure condition. Even if I screw up and lose all Life Support, the mission doesn't end. It simply starts dealing progressively more damage to me which I can no longer stop... But I can still extract with all of my loot. This is even more egregious in Railjack, because "the main objective" is just one of many Points of Interest. In every other case, failing one of those (they aren't failable, but work with me here), we could simply leave, jump into our Railjack and move onto the next Point of Interest. Yet failing the main Point of Interest skips all of these layers of gameplay and drops me out of the instance altogether.

Titanfall and Titanfall 2 had the right idea. At the end of a PvP match, the game doesn't just conclude with a score screen. The losing team get a new objective - "Get to da dropship!" Make it to the dropship, hold off the winning team long enough to board, extract and you get a neat little bonus roughly equivalent to having been on the winning team. The winning team, of course, will try to stop you. Just that one little thing - especially if pulled off well - can take much of the sting out of a lost match, ensuring that players go into the next one with excitement, rather than resentment. Even something as simple as just giving players partial credit for a defeat so they're always making progress helps tremendously. Losing a mission in Vermintide 2 is pretty much an "end of the evening" for my group of friends, simply because we've wasted half an hour and we don't really feel up to doing more. The one game mode that does give us partial credit, though - Weaves - feels entirely different. Losing a Weave is still a bummer, but we still get credit, do a few upgrades and jump in again.

Long story short - I don't see a compelling reason why players HAVE to be penalised for failing. Failure is part of every game. Failure is always an option. A healthy gaming experience should teach us how to recover from failure, not how to stress over never experiencing it.

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17 hours ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

umm I actually dont understand what this post is about.. you want to get rewards etc even if failing a mission? Big well written post but I miss the point .. would you mind explaining what this is about.. cheers

yes exactly that, the player should not lose resources collected after failing the mission because the warframe is still alive. The screenshots above are illustrative and purposeful, I am MR29 I have not lost significant resources, I am exemplifying that missing missions and losing resources is an outdated game style similar to Sonic the Hedgehog 1991.

Look at the game style in orbvallis, eidolon and deimos ... that is a modern game style similar to Diablo, Path of Exile, GTA-SA ... in orbvallis, eidolon and deimos we can complete or fail missions and our resources are never lost. In Eidolon if the hydrolyst capture fails, the arcana(Rare Arcanes) can be extracted, so why is the player penalized for Orokin Cells, Essential Resources and RNG in a common map?

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

I go on a mission. I kill enemies and pick up items, presumably stored on my person. I fail a Defence objective which fails my mission... But I'm still standing, still carrying my loot, still inside the enemy craft. What exactly happens to rob me of these items and kick me back to my orbiter? Would it not make more sense to force me to extract anyway? "Tenno, the Capsule is lot. We've failed. Extract immediately - there's nothing left for us here." Survival does pretty much this exact thing.

Thanks for the explanation, that was exactly the point, I created this topic yesterday in the wrong session, I would like all missions to be similar to plains, there we didn't lose resources after failing missions, this is a universal logic because our doll is alive to extract.

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20 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Thanks for the explanation, that was exactly the point, I created this topic yesterday in the wrong session, I would like all missions to be similar to plains, there we didn't lose resources after failing missions, this is a universal logic because our doll is alive to extract.

Oh, that's an even better example, yes. In Free Roam maps, failing a Bounty stage merely aborts that Bounty, denying us the rest of its rewards. However, we're not kicked out of the zone, we're not given a Defeat screen, we're not stripped of our pick-ups. Hell, most of the time the player can just return to the zone gate, abandon a Bounty in progress and still keep everything they picked up - no need to fail the mission in the first place.

For as much as I dislike DE's take on "open world gameplay," Free Roam maps still have the game's best, most modular, most well-implemented mission structure. I'm genuinely surprised that Railjack didn't follow in their footsteps. Simply force a zone/node change after every "Bounty" and reuse the same system, I say. It makes sense.

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1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Oh, that's an even better example, yes. In Free Roam maps, failing a Bounty stage merely aborts that Bounty, denying us the rest of its rewards. However, we're not kicked out of the zone, we're not given a Defeat screen, we're not stripped of our pick-ups. Hell, most of the time the player can just return to the zone gate, abandon a Bounty in progress and still keep everything they picked up - no need to fail the mission in the first place.

For as much as I dislike DE's take on "open world gameplay," Free Roam maps still have the game's best, most modular, most well-implemented mission structure. I'm genuinely surprised that Railjack didn't follow in their footsteps. Simply force a zone/node change after every "Bounty" and reuse the same system, I say. It makes sense.

railjack is a more complicated subject as it is an uncertain future of updates

I can imagine that in the universe of ship missions the railjack ship will be our only extraction gate, maybe that’s what the giant finger wants to tell us

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tl;dr - not if you didn't state the exact nature of why we should get a reward if we fail the objective.

sure, it's a bit strange why we also lose all of our collected loot (or most of it) and the reason might be only technical in nature but in the long run, this is only bit of pressure we have when doing a mission. we fail, we lose the whole thing - so better give your best!  ofc, that is annoying if you fail the mission because of some bugs but that's live - not that we lose our life or our WF account for failling a mission ^^)

bugs can (and should) get fixed and hopefully the next try on the failed mission will go down smoothly - end of story. i'm sure you had some nice and maybe even original suggestion down your long post but i'm also sure they were suggested at least once in all the years of WF, so apologize for not reading through it more than the first 30 lines or so...

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Kinda negates the purpose of missions if you can just do everything except what you came there to do and then extract.  Its like going to school, eating your lunch during first period then going home cus youd had lunch and getting marked an a because you showed up for the roll call

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1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

Kinda negates the purpose of missions if you can just do everything except what you came there to do and then extract.  Its like going to school, eating your lunch during first period then going home cus youd had lunch and getting marked an a because you showed up for the roll call

Yes, I understand in this case the penalty will be understood over time, the student will realize that he must go back to school and study everything that was ignored, in game the player will return to map for reward everything that was ignored.

I have my point of view but most players are looking in the other direction, ok no problem.
Basically I am supporting the story game and you are supporting the mechanics game.

The story: we are super technological humanoid machines, we invade spaceships in space to plunder resources and kill enemies. Who orders us in these missions is the lotus, sometimes greener or corpus but we can ignore the order and not complete the mission because we are free, we can open doors to loot items and kill hordes of enemies, we can steal everything we touch and the enemies cannot take what's in our hands. The enemy must be strong and be able to kill us to recover everything that has been looted.

The mechanics: the tileset missions are missions with fixed objectives where the player starts at point A by completing sequential tasks until reaching point B, this is a linear style of play, so after completing point B the game opens doors and unlocking paths, all artificial intelligence and fiction is ignored so the player can proceed to the point of extraction.

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3 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Kinda negates the purpose of missions if you can just do everything except what you came there to do and then extract.  Its like going to school, eating your lunch during first period then going home cus youd had lunch and getting marked an a because you showed up for the roll call

you do realize that:

On 2021-03-29 at 7:30 PM, Famecans said:

All maps will be similar to plains of eidolon and orb vallis, there we have missions to win or fail but all the collected resources are kept in the inventory and the player can escape at the gate

 

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10 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Long story short - I don't see a compelling reason why players HAVE to be penalised for failing. Failure is part of every game. Failure is always an option. A healthy gaming experience should teach us how to recover from failure, not how to stress over never experiencing it.

I speak from experience with the warframe playerbase back when mission failures let you keep everything you had up to that point:
People abused the hek out of it.

Got the one rare resource drop (argon, nitain, rare mod, etc) you needed in the mission?  Just abort mission/kill yourself and get it back to your inventory faster than finishing the mission!
Got the drop from a specific node, POI, or enemy unit (such as javlock capacitors)?  Then abort mission/kill yourself to get it back to your inventory faster then finishing the mission!

I mean its the exact reason why DE recently changed the corpus ghost train POI to only give you its reward after you finish the ground section....to prevent players running just that and aborting and getting its reward instead of running the mission (which once people found out about that it made public impossible to play for a while until they fixed it).
It's the same reason DE has so many items you get from spy vaults or sabotage caches or anything else be an "unidentified item" that is only revealed after you successfully finish the mission: The player base proved over and over and over again that they would rather just abort/die once they get that drop then finish the mission.

So DE changed the rules to make it so that if you're in a mission with people farming something that they are at least going to finish the mission instead of just randomly aborting/dieing as soon as the drop they want actually does drop.
Before they did it matchmaking was painful with people just aborting/dieing once a drop occurred which could easily cause a host mirgation and lost loot; as well as just being super annoying to be in a mission to complete it only to have half of your squad suddenly leave because "Got what we're after....good luck!"

And this was actually a really big problem in the game early on (or even recently with the railjack corpus ghost train).  You could rarely get through a mission with the squad intact because they would drop off suddenly and with no warning or regard. (and if it was the host that left then good luck!)
DE was sick of it.  Players were sick of it.
To combat this DE just made it so that if you don't finish the mission and succeed you don't get the majority of what you had.
The player base was bad enough to earn this penalty.  It prevents the matchmaking experience from being a hell of "Will I get host migrated once the host gets a certain drop in this mission and just aborts/dies?"

The penalty is there because the playerbase proved that without that penalty they'll be horrible players that don't care about ruining the mission for everyone else once they get what they wanted.

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7 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Got the one rare resource drop (argon, nitain, rare mod, etc) you needed in the mission?  Just abort mission/kill yourself and get it back to your inventory faster than finishing the mission!
Got the drop from a specific node, POI, or enemy unit (such as javlock capacitors)?  Then abort mission/kill yourself to get it back to your inventory faster then finishing the mission!

I thought I was experiencing the Mandela effect because I definitely don't remember that being a thing with argon, nitain, and javlok capacitors, even when I joined around Vauban being the newest frame (U7.11). Had to look it up and found that it did exist before U7.8.

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38 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

I thought I was experiencing the Mandela effect because I definitely don't remember that being a thing with argon, nitain, and javlok capacitors, even when I joined around Vauban being the newest frame (U7.11). Had to look it up and found that it did exist before U7.8.

I was just using examples off the top of my head for a drop that would get some players to just go “OK, got what  I’m after im aborting”  Didn’t mean to imply that it was those specific resources that caused it.

Before U7.8 it was largely rare mods and boss drops (though there were players who aborted once they got the ferrite they needed), but the point still stands and is still decently illustrated through the random examples.

After all people back in the day were so eager to abort once they got a boss drop (which combatting abort spam is one of the reasons why boss drops are after mission rewards instead of actual drops like resources, as well as to allow everyone in the squad the drop even if a rusher got to and killed the boss before they had a chance to see them) that they didn’t care if they were host or not; they didn’t care how disruptive it was; they got their drop so they are aborting/dieing because its faster, and they hope you enjoy the potential host migration.

It became practically impossible to complete missions without host migrating, and the people who did it were totally unapologetic because they got what they wanted and that is all they cared about.

The current system of “unidentified item” from spy vaults, some bosses (such as kela), sabotage caches, POIs in railjack and everywhere else is mostly because players proved that if DE didn’t do that then most missions would end early in a host migration with most players losing everything because the host got what they were after.  And that portion of U7.8 for resources, credits and the like was to catch the people going “I only needed this one rare resource and now I got it so bye!”

You can look at most penalties against players in fact and have a really solid bet that “the player base did something bad enough often enough to make DE stop it by punishing the player.”

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