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Nyx rework any time?


TeaHawk
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Now that Nyx has become permanently unvaulted, maybe it's time to review her abilities which are by any standards quite underwhelming?

I understand that some are really thinking it's a good frame for steel path due to her invulnerability. But it is really only a gimmick. There are a lot of better frames for SP, meanwhile Nyx's kit is outperformed by almost every newer warframe when it comes to normal missions.

 

Are you planning to review her kit? Or may I simply forget about the very existence of this frame?

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Nyx definitely needs some love.

She and Hydroid are probably the two worst frames in the game right now. Neither really does anything better than any other frame and both have a bevy of near useless abilities in today's Warframe.

Hydroid used to be great at stripping armor until they nerfed corrosive

Nyx used to be queen of CC until other frames came along and straight up do what she did but better.

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1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

Nyx definitely needs some love.

She and Hydroid are probably the two worst frames in the game right now. Neither really does anything better than any other frame and both have a bevy of near useless abilities in today's Warframe.

Hydroid used to be great at stripping armor until they nerfed corrosive

Nyx used to be queen of CC until other frames came along and straight up do what she did but better.

The worst thing is that she has some of the best skins in this game. This is one of the most fashion-potent frames. However, I could not make anything useful out of her kit. I've made 6 formas build after studying every ability she has. It is still slow and painful to play. Just feels outdated. She does not have speed and agility, nor she has tankiness, nor she has good CC/DD abilities. 

 

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Her 4 just seems out of place, if they introduced something else that synergies with her mind control and chaos it’d make for a better ultimate. Her mind control needs some love too cuz rn it’s like a weaker version of soul punch ngl. You’d think after mind controlling an enemy, she’d insta kill them at the end of the duration. 

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5 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

I understand that some are really thinking it's a good frame for steel path due to her invulnerability. But it is really only a gimmick.

I value her more on Steel Path for the single-button 100% defense removal, both Armor and Shields, which no other Frame can offer.

 

58 minutes ago, MomentoHeleo said:

You’d think after mind controlling an enemy, she’d insta kill them at the end of the duration.

She pretty much does, though - any damage the MC target has taken will be unleashed when the ability ends.


But yeah, she could really use some buffs, FWIW I gave my 2 Credits on her 1 in this recent topic:

 

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Just now, NinjaZeku said:

I value her more on Steel Path for the single-button 100% defense removal, both Armor and Shields, which no other Frame can offer.

With limited number of targets it's more a gimmick, since any properly build weapon is still performing well on SP. And then you got frames like Titania with insane speed, almost invulnerability and 500k dps. My main problem with this frame is that her kit is not efficient compared to other frames, and at the same time is not fun at all. So it's kinda sad utility frame, slow and boring. There are so many ways to make her mind-control shine.

 

Thanks for citing the topic though.

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1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

I value her more on Steel Path for the single-button 100% defense removal, both Armor and Shields, which no other Frame can offer.

Have you used xaku?

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2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

I value her more on Steel Path for the single-button 100% defense removal, both Armor and Shields, which no other Frame can offer.

Xaku's Gaze can do this in a large area, armor and shields, with 200% ability strength.

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1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Have you used xaku?

Ah right, whoops, I somehow keep forgetting (to more often use) Xaku, not sure why.
Maybe it's the name that's putting me off, like come on, who'd ever name someone anything even close to that, just terrible.

Though FWIW, the stationary and LOS aspects of Gaze are a bit cumbersome, Nyx is at least more mobile / spammy in that regard.

2 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

With limited number of targets it's more a gimmick

Oh definitely, the target cap on that ability needs to go, and more bolts per cast
(and / or some AoE upon impact maybe) wouldn't necessarily be overkill, either.

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10 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Ah right, whoops, I somehow keep forgetting (to more often use) Xaku, not sure why.
Maybe it's the name that's putting me off, like come on, who'd ever name someone anything even close to that, just terrible.

Though FWIW, the stationary and LOS aspects of Gaze are a bit cumbersome, Nyx is at least more mobile / spammy in that regard.

Oh definitely, the target cap on that ability needs to go, and more bolts per cast
(and / or some AoE upon impact maybe) wouldn't necessarily be overkill, either.

Xaku is much easier to use for armor strip though. It is a set it and forget it ability that can mark two huge areas with 100% strip. Nyx does hers much less efficiently. It would be nice to have her ability be a toggle drain autofire thing rather than what we currently have.

Also psychic bolts should be a permanent armor strip with range affecting total number of bolts fired, if they dont do a toggle thing.

Edited by Leqesai
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10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Nyx definitely needs some love.

She and Hydroid are probably the two worst frames in the game right now. Neither really does anything better than any other frame and both have a bevy of near useless abilities in today's Warframe.

Hydroid used to be great at stripping armor until they nerfed corrosive

Nyx used to be queen of CC until other frames came along and straight up do what she did but better.

Idk Inaros' kit is pretty awful save for his HP

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12 hours ago, TeaHawk said:

The worst thing is that she has some of the best skins in this game. This is one of the most fashion-potent frames. However, I could not make anything useful out of her kit. I've made 6 formas build after studying every ability she has. It is still slow and painful to play. Just feels outdated. She does not have speed and agility, nor she has tankiness, nor she has good CC/DD abilities. 

 

Replace Mind Control with Khora's Ensnare, use Pacifying Bolts mod for her 2.  Add Flow, Quick Thinking and Adaptation.  Build for Range and Duration.

Congrats.  You have AOE Pull, Three different AOE Stuns, AOE 100% armor+shield stripping fashion frame goddess.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)LoisGordils said:

Idk Inaros' kit is pretty awful save for his HP

This is true. Inaros could use some QOL improvements to be sure. I've used them a ton and TBH the only ability I've really enjoyed is sandstorm but it scales horribly. I haven't tried an elemental sandstorm build with viral, however, which might make it a little better...

Having said that, his 1 and 2 are pretty bad. I know some people love his 2 but honestly it isn't needed. Just go with any of the weapon-based health regen options and/or arcane grace and/or companion healing and you're pretty much invincible. Heck, slap well of life on there and you have a much better heal.

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31 minutes ago, Klaeljanu said:

Replace Mind Control with Khora's Ensnare, use Pacifying Bolts mod for her 2.  Add Flow, Quick Thinking and Adaptation.  Build for Range and Duration.

Congrats.  You have AOE Pull, Three different AOE Stuns, AOE 100% armor+shield stripping fashion frame goddess.

Interesting suggestion. I may have to toy around with this.

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3 hours ago, Klaeljanu said:

Replace Mind Control with Khora's Ensnare, use Pacifying Bolts mod for her 2.  Add Flow, Quick Thinking and Adaptation.  Build for Range and Duration.

Congrats.  You have AOE Pull, Three different AOE Stuns, AOE 100% armor+shield stripping fashion frame goddess.

Thanks for the idea. I'll try it. Just to make it playable.

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For her unaugmented 4, how about the following:

1. Instead of being stationary she can float around at reduced speed (as has been suggested often)

2. Upon release, the explosion radius and damage are increased depending on how long Absorb was active (longer = larger radius and more damage)

3. Instead of energy drain ramping up with damage taken, it ramps up steadily over time as long as Absorb is active (in other words: the longer Absorb is active, the higher the cost, range and damage all become)

 

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A while ago, Nyx received a rework that was much anticipated by players, as she's been in a bad place for a while. When the changes rolled out, however, they just made her 1 give her Mind Controlled enemy a bit more damage, her 2 a more limited armor strip than on most frames who presently have one, and... well, that's about it, as her other changes didn't really do much for her. She clearly had not been reworked by people who cared much for her, nor who paid all that much attention to criticisms made of her kit, and as a result she's still one of the least popular frames in the game. Not much has really been said about her officially from what I understand, so it's likely DE has considered her case closed for at least one or two more years.

I very much agree with the OP that while some players do manage to carve out a niche for her, even then she remains a gimmicky, clunky frame whose specialized contributions are outdone by the secondary mechanics on other frames who do a lot more besides. She's an outdated frame who fails to honor the psychic power fantasy she promises, and who's also being held back by many broader systems in Warframe, namely enemy damage scaling against enemy EHP, and the AI of enemies turned into allies.

My thoughts on how to improve her:

  • First off, implement some general changes to enemies, so that they always take increased damage when hit by other enemies, scaling with level. If one is to pit enemies against themselves, they should always be able to meaningfully damage each other.
  • Second, rework enemy AI whenever an effect turns them to the player's side. When a minion of the player, the enemy should have 100% accuracy, and should be purely aggressive, attacking without trying to hide behind cover or retreat. This would eliminate wasted time on abilities designed to turn enemies into minions.
  • Rework her passive to some more reliable defensive or CC effect, ideally one that isn't redundant relative to her other abilities.
  • Combine Mind Control and Chaos somehow into a single effect that turns enemies to her side, and makes them a meaningful threat.
  • Remove the limitations on Psychic Bolts.
  • Rework Absorb completely. Nyx should have some form of invulnerability somewhere in her kit, but it shouldn't be this button that disables her completely (or severely in the case of her augment). Additionally, it'd be nice if the ability didn't drain her Energy so horribly, and dealt meaningful damage with its explosion.
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Maybe if they make it so all damage dealt to the mind controlled enemy is also dealt to enemies affected by Chaos. but maybe that would make her OP. I like Nyx though. I just do not like her 4 when looking at the rest of her kit.

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Nyx is in the awkward position of not actually being bad, but also not being good. Like, a solid C-tier frame. Very high defense (literal invincibility that extends to your companion), complete defense stripping with a single Intensify, and the ability to completely remove a priority target from the fight and get it to fight for you (for almost negligible effect, but still) but combined with either complete mobility while invincible without sacrificing a mod slot or almost complete immobility with sacrificing a mod slot, total randomness on her defense strip, a CC that makes enemies more likely to target her than anything else, and her primary ability being so limited as to be useless means that she needs a lot of work. My bare-bones rework would be:

  • Make Psychic Bolts her 1. Have it only cast 2 (times range) bolts at a time, and do not remove prior casts. Duration is 10 seconds base.
  • Make Mind Control's augment part of the base ability (5x damage from MC'ed target) and move it to her 2. New augment now acts as an animation speed boost to the target.
  • Replace Chaos with Nightmares (purely thematic name change, as she's named after the goddess of night). A spherical cast that causes 1/2/3/4 Radiation procs, times Strength.
  • Absorb has its augment rolled into the base ability, but movement speed is 50% sprint speed, rather than 50% walk speed. Jumping and rolling is allowed, but bullet jumping or sliding will break the channel. New augment, Mobile Absorb, now removes the channelling effect and movement restrictions, makes Absorb only last 5sec, and an upper-body action, but increases the base energy cost to 2x (divided by efficiency). Can equip both augments.
  • New passive to differentiate her from Xaku: % chance on hit equal to HP lost to put the attacker to sleep. Knowing DE, they'd want a cap on this, so max 50%, I suppose.

Of course, this will never happen.

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They could revert the passive back to the old disarm, that used to be a fun playstyle.

Probably not meta at all but judging from the comments Nyx isnt meta now even after the fabled last rework, soo..

PS: Havent played since the design went into the direction of DPS über alles so im outta the loop prolly :P

Edited by Howtoshootgun
meow meow choco chow
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Spoiler

 

Mind Control wouldn't be bad as is if they included damage redirection with it so she at least had some better defensive capabilities. Like store a % of incoming damage to be dealt to the Mind Controlled target when the ability ends in addition to damage it takes.

Her Psychic Bolts are good in that they don't require a lot of strength to reach 100%. They just need some better propagation. She also lacks synergy, which is where I think Chaos could come in.

What if hitting an enemy with Psychic Bolts while it is under the effect of Chaos causes their attacks to spread Psychic Bolt's effects to other enemies?

 

Edit: I actually thought of some better suggestions, so I'm hiding my post in a spoiler, cause I think these are better.

Mind Control - A % of damage that Nyx takes is redirected and added to the Mind Control target's damage. So, maybe a base 50% (max 90%) of damage that Nyx takes is negated, and that damage is added to the Mind Control target's damage buff.

Psychic Bolts - Remove the current ability altogether. INSTEAD, Nyx gains 20% ammo efficiency, and projectiles from her ranged weapons strip 80% (max 100%) of enemy armor for the duration of the ability.

Chaos - Works as it current does. Synergy - while under the effect Psychic Bolts, when Nyx's projectiles hit an enemy under Chaos, their armor explodes with the first damaging hit, causing damage to near by enemies in a 5 meter AOE.

Absorb - Functions as it currently does, but add a chance to disarm enemies hit based on how long the ability was channeled and how much damage was absorbed. Start with a 35% base chance, and add .5% each second and 1% for every 1000 damage absorbed.

Edited by xZeromusx
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2021-04-07 at 4:03 PM, Howtoshootgun said:

They could revert the passive back to the old disarm, that used to be a fun playstyle.

Probably not meta at all but judging from the comments Nyx isnt meta now even after the fabled last rework, soo..

PS: Havent played since the design went into the direction of DPS über alles so im outta the loop prolly :P

That disarming passive would not work too well, and I am glad it has been removed, if you want to mind control a target and of the sudden it looses its gun and goes to town with a pizza slicer... no thanks. :^P

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On 2021-04-01 at 3:58 PM, MomentoHeleo said:

Her 4 just seems out of place, if they introduced something else that synergies with her mind control and chaos it’d make for a better ultimate. Her mind control needs some love too cuz rn it’s like a weaker version of soul punch ngl. You’d think after mind controlling an enemy, she’d insta kill them at the end of the duration. 

I 100% agree with you that it is out of place and doesnt suit her theme at all, if people want to play tank that can do similar things as nyx but was designed and is an actuall tank then Grendel for example is a good option, why? Reduces armor of enemies, deals good scaling damage and has some cc, really underrated frame btw...

I would suggest to put something like a buffing ability instead of her 4 so that it would buff allies including mind controled targets. 🙂

So something like damage, fire rate and such, like a boost of adrenaline, or whatever... XD

Also would be great if we actually could control the target, not just let it do whatever it wants ( Companion/pet rework when De? 🙄 ), sometimes it doenst even attack, just stands and stares at a wall, while enemies shoot it. Would be great if we could steer it as well as give comands.

Anyway the damage doesnt scale well on it, thats why her 4 would synergize well.

Her 2 could also have maybe like an aoe on the impact, which would do the same as the bolts themselfs, that would probably improve it.

When it comes to her 3 I think its good as is, but if it would be replaced with ability that synergizes well with her 1, again, and maybe if she would be able to have multiple mind controled enemies than I am okay with that. :^)

Sure, Nyx isnt the first on the list or reworks, cause frames like Hydroid, Chroma and Inaros need a rework way more than she does, but she 100% needs it and deserves it. 😃

 

 

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