Verglas and Glaxion stats are 100 percent identical

[Proscriptor]

verglas isn't the same as glaxion vandal, it's the same as the base glaxion, a MR 8 primary beam. 

glaxion vandal is a lot stronger, but verglas is a lot stronger than all other sentinel weapons, with deconstructor also having significant killing power but being restricted to helios. 

for example artax, cryotra and verglas are all ice-damage beams, but verglas does several dozen times more damage than either. 

also, verglas does more damage than glaxion (the primary weapon) because of fired up. 

edit: to a superficial reader, there is glaxion (mr8), and glaxion vandal (mr12). verglas has the same stats as glaxion, NOT glaxion vandal

[nslay]

9 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

verglas isn't the same as glaxion vandal, it's the same as the base glaxion, a MR 8 primary beam. 

glaxion vandal is a lot stronger, but verglas is a lot stronger than all other sentinel weapons, with deconstructor also having significant killing power but being restricted to helios. 

for example artax, cryotra and verglas are all ice-damage beams, but verglas does several dozen times more damage than either. 

also, verglas does more damage than glaxion (the primary weapon) because of fired up. 

edit: to a superficial reader, there is glaxion (mr8), and glaxion vandal (mr12). verglas has the same stats as glaxion, NOT glaxion vandal

Yeah, I used Glaxion Vandal for a pessemistic review of Verglas... if Glaxion Vandal has a sluggish experience (although Heat is a slow DoT effect), then Glaxion has got to be slightly worse, right? Now my Glaxion Vandal is a pure fire rate/status build... as a hybrid build, it might perform better.

I went and looked up Glaxion's range... even if you were to put Verlas on Diriga with its 70m attack precept, it still only has a 24m range. With Sinister Reach, it's 36m... it's about the same as an Assult Mode Helios (30m).

Now I'll have to give Fired Up a try. Never used it before!

[Proscriptor]

we have deviated from the topic of what one's thoughts were upon learning how the stats between Glaxion and Verglas are identical

so, upon learning how the stats are identical between these two weapons, what were your thoughts?

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

we have deviated from the topic of what one's thoughts were upon learning how the stats between Glaxion and Verglas are identical

so, upon learning how the stats are identical between these two weapons, what were your thoughts?

My thoughts remain unchanged... even despite the noted differences with from other sentinel weapons, it seems comparable to Deconstructor Prime and quite appropriate for a Railjack sentinel.

[Proscriptor]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

My thoughts remain unchanged... even despite the noted differences with from other sentinel weapons, it seems comparable to Deconstructor Prime and quite appropriate for a Railjack sentinel.

yeah but what were they, even if unchanged?

[Proscriptor]

were they "it's quite appropriate that a "railjack sentinel" weapon is a quintessential corpus mr8 primary beam"?

[VeraElena]

"I took Glaxion Vandal to SP Sedna Sabotage and I'm not impressed."

Almost as if the game isn't and isn't supposed to be balanced around steel path.

 

It has an easy time killing most targets quickly in the content that most players actually do on a regular basis. Way too strong compared to its competition and goes way too far down into the afk/walking simulator path.

[Proscriptor]

1 minute ago, VeraElena said:

"I took Glaxion Vandal to SP Sedna Sabotage and I'm not impressed."

Almost as if the game isn't and isn't supposed to be balanced around steel path.

 

It has an easy time killing most targets quickly in the content that most players actually do on a regular basis. Way too strong compared to its competition and goes way too far down into the afk/walking simulator path.

glaxion vandal is not important here, verglas is the same as glaxion, not glaxion vandal. most people know about glaxion vandal but there is also just glaxion (sans "vandal").

so to restate for clarity: verglas is the same as glaxion (the topic). verglas isn't the same as glaxion vandal (not the topic)

[nslay]

5 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

yeah but what were they, even if unchanged?

Oh uhh... it's probably not as OP as other posts present it to be (just based on Glaxion Vandal's performance). It's more powerful than I realized, but it's comparable to Deconstructor Prime... which I think is fine if DE intended us to have a Railjack-grade sentinel (although a Railjack sentinel should have Carrier Prime's EHP IMO).

If they change it, then they change it... it won't bother me too much either way since I have my Cryotra and Deconstructor Prime built for spreading status. And I have my fully built Vulklok and Vulcax for killing stuff.

If they do change it, they should differentiate it from Cryotra... maybe make it the Ice version of Vulklok/Vulcax (these are Electricity and Fire crit weapons).

If they don't change it and it somehow bothers you that other sentinels can equip it, they could make Verglas exclusive to Nautilus much like Deconstructor is to Helios.

[VeraElena]

"glaxion vandal is not important here, verglas is the same as glaxion, not glaxion vandal. "

Yes, we get that.  No one has ever claimed otherwise and it doesn't change my comment to the sentence quoted in my previous post.

[Proscriptor]

it should be said that glaxion vandal is unrelated to the matter at hand

verglas is the same as glaxion, not glaxion vandal, having identical stats to glaxion (just so that the readers understand what's going on here)

glaxion (just "glaxion") also exist, apart from glaxion vandal, and verglas is actually glaxion (yes verglas = glaxion, look at the stats if you don't believe me)

[nslay]

5 minutes ago, VeraElena said:

"I took Glaxion Vandal to SP Sedna Sabotage and I'm not impressed."

Almost as if the game isn't and isn't supposed to be balanced around steel path.

 

It has an easy time killing most targets quickly in the content that most players actually do on a regular basis. Way too strong compared to its competition and goes way too far down into the afk/walking simulator path.

For such content, Vulkok, Vulcax and Deconstructor can kill enemies pretty quickly (usually one shot). I don't see a problem with another sentinel weapon being able to dispatch Star Chart enemies as fast as these other weapons. But again, this is a weapon that is bundled with a sentinel meant for Railjack... I do think this weapon should be balanced for Railjack and I think it's currently appropriate for Railjack.

[nslay]

Just now, Proscriptor said:

it should be said that glaxion vandal is unrelated to the matter at hand

verglas is the same as glaxion, not glaxion vandal, having identical stats to glaxion (just so that the readers understand what's going on here)

glaxion (just "glaxion") also exist, apart from glaxion vandal, and verglas is actually glaxion (yes verglas = glaxion, look at the stats if you don't believe me)

I think you're still misunderstanding the intent of my test...

If <superior weapon> isn't great, then <weapon> is surely worse.

Glaxion Vandal is an upgrade of Glaxion. It was slightly faster than Deconstructor Prime in TTK... therefore, when thinking in terms of Glaxion's performance, then a similarly modded Glaxion can only be worse. Get it?

[Proscriptor]

verglas has *vastly* better TTK (time to kill) than vulklok and vulcax, by vastly i mean dozens-better, and it's only deconstructor that somewhat approaches it, but deconstructor is restricted to helios

glaxion vandal should probably not be talked about here, indeed there is also glaxion vandal but verglas shares the stast with the MR8 glaxion, not the superior variant of glaxion the vandal variant. 

glaxion (the mr8 glaxion) and verglas are identical weapons with the same stats and gfx

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

glaxion vandal should probably not be talked about here, indeed there is also glaxion vandal but verglas shares the stast with the MR8 glaxion, not the superior variant of glaxion the vandal variant. 

But most of us won't spend potatoes and forma on a normal variant of Glaxion to test the thing... and I only recently got my Nautilus. So it's not built up... and I probably won't forma it any time soon since I'm currently using Helios to scan the Railjack enemies.

So in light of that, the easiest way to get a feel for how Verglas performs is to play with Glaxion Vandal... which gives you an upperbound in performance. I don't see an issue with getting an upperbound feel for Verglas via Glaxion's superior variant Glaxion Vandal. It becomes very telling if your experience is bad with the superior variant... because that means Glaxion/Verglas are only going to feel worse.

[VeraElena]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

For such content, Vulkok, Vulcax and Deconstructor can kill enemies pretty quickly (usually one shot). I don't see a problem with another sentinel weapon being able to dispatch Star Chart enemies as fast as these other weapons. But again, this is a weapon that is bundled with a sentinel meant for Railjack... I do think this weapon should be balanced for Railjack and I think it's currently appropriate for Railjack.

Vulklok has a (base) fire rate of 0.15. One kill every 6.66 seconds.

Vulcax has a reload of 6 seconds and a 1 shot mag.

Deconstructor has a 6 round mag and a 3s reload, no multishot for extra status and, in my experience, was slow to react to enemies (probably reloading)

 

Verglas has a big magazine, 2s reload, pinpoint accuracy and wastes little time going from 1 enemy to the next

[Drachnyn]

I think that afk-enabling weapons/abilities would be far less of a problem if the mission design wasnt so extremely simplistic. Defense and survival basically scream to be automated.

[Proscriptor]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

But most of us won't spend potatoes and forma on a normal variant of Glaxion to test the thing... and I only recently got my Nautilus. So it's not built up... and I probably won't forma it any time soon since I'm currently using Helios to scan the Railjack enemies.

So in light of that, the easiest way to get a feel for how Verglas performs is to play with Glaxion Vandal... which gives you an upperbound in performance. I don't see an issue with getting an upperbound feel for Verglas via Glaxion's superior variant Glaxion Vandal. It becomes very telling if your experience is bad with the superior variant... because that means Glaxion/Verglas are only going to feel worse.

really the interesting fact here is a sentinel weapon being a direct verbatim port of a primary weapon (a copy paste procedure took place somewhere on DE's end), so a technically *other* weapon, glaxoin vandal, which is not glaxion, but it's superior variant, is not what helps understand what's going on

edit: note: a superficial reader will be well informed that glaxion and verglas are the same weapon with verglas being glaxion given to sentinels. the stats and gfx are identical and even the name is very similar. this is the crux of this topic 

[nslay]

5 minutes ago, VeraElena said:

Vulklok has a (base) fire rate of 0.15. One kill every 6.66 seconds.

Vulcax has a reload of 6 seconds and a 1 shot mag.

Deconstructor has a 6 round mag and a 3s reload, no multishot for extra status and, in my experience, was slow to react to enemies (probably reloading)

 

Verglas has a big magazine, 2s reload, pinpoint accuracy and wastes little time going from 1 enemy to the next

But when you mod the Vulkok and Vulcax, you're going to roughly 1 kill roughly every 3 seconds... for Vulcax, it's irregular (2 kills in 1 second and then 4 second reload...mod for magazine size and reload speed).

Deconstructor is bugged when using Helios' special attack precept. If you use the universal attack precept (Assault Mode), Helios gains a larger 30m range and does not experience those slow reactions. Helios' glaive bounces off of walls and you can equip Power Throw for punch through.

I do concede that for Star Chart enemies, the Verglas' 12x fire rate will surpass well-modded Vulklok and Vulcax in kill efficiency simply because of how squishy Star Chart enemies tend to be. You don't need the large crits from Vulklok and Vulcax to quickly finish off a lot of them.

[Proscriptor]

it's not only star chart enemies, it's enemies of several hundreds in lvl as long as they are the normal, base difficulty, starchart units (and not rj units or with steel path bonus)

so "star chart" here could mean for example T5 kuva survival and arbitration

yeah, verglas rips trough arbitration enemies like they're mr1 

[Skaleek]

Are you on a crusade to get it nerfed or what? I don't get your motivation to repeat the same message over and over. We get it the stats are the same you don't need to post the same statement 20 times.

[Krilexis]

Laughed hard at the same stats being used, for beam sentinel weapon Im using Artax it tracks and slow enemies very efficiently so no need or status mods etc. As for the Nautiluse and Verglas didnt farm those yet.

[Skaleek]

7 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

just tested Verglas _{(I was ranking it up)} in Steel Path level 135 Grineer it was killing them by itself took a couple of burst but it did the job, so yeah NERF incoming we can't have good things

If it gets nerfed it gets nerfed. These things usually happen. Decon prime is still in the ballpark of this weapon though. Maybe the wires got crossed when they introduced this weapon and the stats are not what was intended. It is a straight upgrade from 2 other similar sentinel weapons.

[Proscriptor]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

If it gets nerfed it gets nerfed. These things usually happen. Decon prime is still in the ballpark of this weapon though. Maybe the wires got crossed when they introduced this weapon and the stats are not what was intended. It is a straight upgrade from 2 other similar sentinel weapons.

decon prime deals much much lower sustained DPS, i just tested it in a few configurations and settings. verglas is an absolute champion. but the interesting fact to me is how it has 100 percent identical stats to another weapon which is rarely if ever the case. 

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

decon prime deals much much lower sustained DPS, i just tested it in a few configurations and settings. verglas is an absolute champion. but the interesting fact to me is how it has 100 percent identical stats to another weapon which is rarely if ever the case

To be honest with you, having identical stats to another weapon really doesn't matter in the slightest. It has no bearing on any of this discussion because it's an entirely different class of weapon. The weapon may be better than decon p but at least they are punching in the same weight class. Unlike the artax for example.