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There is no reason to put Oberon and Ash in Railjack


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Not to derail things -- but how do you feel about Defection?  The Manics in there still drop Ash parts as of earlier today. (Probably an oversight in the drop tables but still.)

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4 hours ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

A weak argument justifying bad decision. And it doesn't matter if those three mission types never got the big screen. They exist as grim reminder to what DE does with game modes like a kid does with a toy they're bored with.

.... DE doesn't get "bored" with the game mode, the game mode failed to gain enough traction from the player to justify further development effort. There's a different, and again, it's a whole different topic.

So far you make no respond any of my original arguments that showed the logic from the dev perspective, you choose to respond to my one off-handed comment about other mission type, and seem to be only interesting in demonizing DE... Why exactly? 

Warframe's drop locations got switched around multiple times in the past, and the sky still haven't fall, new player still come and go. Bad mission types got resurrected or retired multiple times in the past, we are still here. We players only remember what didn't work, all of us shared that big skewed bias toward not remembering what does works, and what did got better. The difference here is that i don't believe you are making good faith criticism in this thread, while don't even seem to realize your own bias. 

Edited by FireSegment
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15 hours ago, FireSegment said:

I have to admit that i have bias that make the way i view new player experience is not accurate by a long shot. Being a new player back at 2016 and now isn't the same thing after all.

Yet, the perspective you gave me so far only added the point that Oberon is much more valuable than his non-existent grind effort before the change. From the dev perspective, he should be a harder frame to get than ... say ... hydroid for example, don't you think? 

And i did say that i also hate a frame reward being put in rot C defense. The only possible silver lining from that is they might add some other thing that make RJ def worth grinding in the future since RJ still not solidify what kind of reward are to be expected from it. (like somehow became a new hydron for example, but that's too hopeful)

Oberon is a valuable new player frame.  He should be available to new players.  He's not a valuable late game frame.  He can of course be used where ever, but a player with the option to use any frame will likely always choose another.  Oberon's value comes early when a new player has no mods, no resources, and little group mates.  Clearing the starmap, especially the early planets, often results in solo missions, or paired with a single other new player, with neither having good mods, access to spoiler mode, arcanes, or anything we would consider "good".  That's when Oberon's healing (and Rhino being tanky) are the most valuable in the game.  For me, it would make a ton more sense if Earth's boss wasn't a later game boss, and Oberon was there.  Or something.  I don't know.  But putting him where only end-game players can get him (as he is now) means no one will ever use him when he's most useful.  End game players might still find use for him in Eidolons if they choose him over someone else, but that's it.  If I got him now, I would level to 30 and set aside, as I can already do everything he can, but better (I have Wisp).  But early his healing came at a time when a new player would be dying a lot due to health loss.  I would say he should definitely drop across the first three planets.

I am glad they put nothing I need as rewards for the defenses, as I think it's horrid that there are defenses in Railjack.  If they put something I wanted/needed there, I would just end up hating playing whatever nodes were unkind to me with drops.  I still don't understand why Corpus Proxima Railjack missions are 80% non-Railjack gameplay.

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1 hour ago, FireSegment said:

We players only remember what didn't work, all of us shared that big skewed bias toward not remembering what does works, and what did got better

One thing I fail to understand is how DE doesn't see that new modes/activities/etc won't work when they release them.  Some things that come out are just bad.  From day one.  I've only been playing since Aug 2020 (I did play for ~6 months PS4 in 2015 - it was before even the Orbiter existed), so I wasn't around for most things when they came out.

But my understanding is that Railjack 1.0 was bad.  Bug filled.  Railjack 2.0 was generally considered fun but pointless.  No reason to play unless you wanted to build a Railjack or run Gian Point (which got you affinity and credits but nothing else).  And now I see Railjack 3.0 generally considered an improvement in some regards but also heavily criticized in others.

Deimos Necralisk vaults came out when I started playing, and the update to them later.  I have yet to see anyone say the updated versions are an improvement on the initial vaults.  They're just too long with the drop rates they have to be worth it.

But also I know that players will run things they consider not fun to get the drops.  Does anyone consider Harrow farming fun?  I can't imagine anyone does.  But I did farm him up.  I know no one that thinks any of the Archwing missions fun (I'm sure there are some), but I know people run them to level their AWs.

It makes me wonder how much DE even considers fun when adding content.  Or if they just look at how many times a mission is run.  They definitely don't consider releasing bug-free content a priority, as everything has blatantly obvious day one bugs (10 patches in a week or so just for RJ 3.0).

Back in 2015 the warframe combat was amazingly fun.  It still is.  Not much added since is really what I would consider "fun" to play, though.  Railjack skirmishes are one thing I definitely think are fun, though.  Just wish there was more Railjack in the Corpus Proxima.

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5 hours ago, hdevansiv said:

Not to derail things -- but how do you feel about Defection?  The Manics in there still drop Ash parts as of earlier today. (Probably an oversight in the drop tables but still.)

manics still drop ash parts?

Also defection is boring. And so are all the other 'unique' unused game modes that isn't index.

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On 2021-04-08 at 3:18 PM, Wheelhouser said:

One thing I fail to understand is how DE doesn't see that new modes/activities/etc won't work when they release them.  Some things that come out are just bad.  From day one.  I've only been playing since Aug 2020 (I did play for ~6 months PS4 in 2015 - it was before even the Orbiter existed), so I wasn't around for most things when they came out.

But my understanding is that Railjack 1.0 was bad.  Bug filled.  Railjack 2.0 was generally considered fun but pointless.  No reason to play unless you wanted to build a Railjack or run Gian Point (which got you affinity and credits but nothing else).  And now I see Railjack 3.0 generally considered an improvement in some regards but also heavily criticized in others.

Deimos Necralisk vaults came out when I started playing, and the update to them later.  I have yet to see anyone say the updated versions are an improvement on the initial vaults.  They're just too long with the drop rates they have to be worth it.

But also I know that players will run things they consider not fun to get the drops.  Does anyone consider Harrow farming fun?  I can't imagine anyone does.  But I did farm him up.  I know no one that thinks any of the Archwing missions fun (I'm sure there are some), but I know people run them to level their AWs.

It makes me wonder how much DE even considers fun when adding content.  Or if they just look at how many times a mission is run.  They definitely don't consider releasing bug-free content a priority, as everything has blatantly obvious day one bugs (10 patches in a week or so just for RJ 3.0).

Back in 2015 the warframe combat was amazingly fun.  It still is.  Not much added since is really what I would consider "fun" to play, though.  Railjack skirmishes are one thing I definitely think are fun, though.  Just wish there was more Railjack in the Corpus Proxima.

I'm beginning to believe the doom posters when they say. Insane/boring Grind = Just Buy Plat tenno.

Edited by (NSW)Dangruff
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