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Why I don't really enjoy Warframe anymore


Nanraku

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I felt like I should share this on here, just to see if others feel the same way.

Note: I don't dislike Warframe as a concept, I like the story and universe it presents, and the movement capabilities are amazing. What I take issue with is mostly the lack of variety in anything. What I mean by this is it feels like all of the content is the same thing, just changed a tiny bit.

You jump around and shoot things. That's every mission. Even the missions where you rescue prisoners give you no incentive to actually escort them, you can just run to extraction (though to be fair, escort missions in any game are absolutely terrible to begin with). At a certain point, even the Warframe you choose doesn't matter in the end, since you could just pick a tank frame with a high-damage and fully kitted weapon and destroy anyways. Updates that present "new" content feel recycled to me, like the open world areas. They all feel very similar, and while they added small things like K-Drives and Necromechs, it's still the same point-and-click adventure game in the end. The story quests are really the only thing I can enjoy, just because they're well written. Other than that, the gameplay is repetitive and stale.

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. Remember Conclave? The meme gamemode that nobody plays because it just wasn't enjoyable? Or even the arcade minigames that are so bugged and flawed? I would've loved to have some sort of pvp mode, but since DE couldn't make it work, they're not going to try again. Things like Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr seem really lazily put together, even though Frame Fighter could have been fun to play. It seems to me that DE would rather stay inside the box they built, rather than spend time fixing or adding things that might spice up the game a bit.

I really, really want to enjoy this game. I did for a long time when it was released, but there came a point when it began feeling like more of a job than a game. It became boring, and progression was frustrating.

But yeah, just thought I would share. I'd like to hear other's opinions, too. 🙂

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As someone who has taken multiple, lengthy breaks from WF - If it's not fun anymore, find something else to do with your time. At least for the foreseeable future, WF isn't going anywhere, and it'll be here if (and/or when) you get that itch again (e.g., next big content drop). 

Also just pointing out that Happy Zephyr was an easter egg before the Ludoplex existed, so it was probably just a side project someone put together for fun (thus, "lazily" put together). Conclave, on the other hand, is an actual game mode they spent time on, but I think the effort to balance/maintain it is just too high given the population of players that actually play the mode (and also the crowd of anti-Conclave people who seem to be riled up by any mention of Conclave, even if it doesn't affect anything else...).

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Nanraku said:

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. Remember Conclave? The meme gamemode that nobody plays because it just wasn't enjoyable? Or even the arcade minigames that are so bugged and flawed? I would've loved to have some sort of pvp mode, but since DE couldn't make it work, they're not going to try again. Things like Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr seem really lazily put together, even though Frame Fighter could have been fun to play. It seems to me that DE would rather stay inside the box they built, rather than spend time fixing or adding things that might spice up the game a bit.

I don't think Conclave and Happy Zephyr are comparable. For one, I don't think Happy Zephyr failed at all when it was added in 2014

Frame Fighter doesn't seem all that bad either. The real problem is the netcode. I have tried several times to play it with friends (whenever Nightwave makes us), and it seems like it WOULD be fun, somewhat deep, and entertaining... if any of us could actually hit the other person, instead of throw a long chain of attacks we didn't input and then suddenly die fifteen seconds later when the engine is finally able to add up all the damage that supposedly happened

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I felt like I should share this on here, just to see if others feel the same way. There definitely will be people who feel the same way, as there will also people who feel differently. You will notice more people that you want to see.

You jump around and shoot things. That's every mission. Megaman is shoot, jump, and run to the right. Sonic and mario is jump and run to the right. Ninja gaiden is slash stuff. dmc is slash and shoot stuff. Sounds to me, you're searching for open world games like gta, or yakuza, where you can beat people up, rpg launcher them, play tennis, gamble on casinos, woo girls, or race tamiya mini 4wd cars. Warframe is not one of those games.

even the Warframe you choose doesn't matter in the end, since you could just pick a tank frame with a high-damage and fully kitted weapon and destroy anyways. This is where I'm going to straight up disagree. In lower levels this might be true, with that said, just put umbral vitality and armor, any squishy frames will survive anything. But in higher levels, your warframe abilities are integral part of how you gonna complete the mission. Go high enough, everything will one shot you. Tanks doesn't exist anymore.

The story quests are really the only thing I can enjoy, my condolences. You like a part of warframe that DE doesn't put as much efforts to update.

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. This i totally agree. Just because nobody plays frame fighter, it doesn't mean they can leave a broken mode inside the game. How about lua music puzzle, did they fix that?

I really, really want to enjoy this game. I did for a long time when it was released, but there came a point when it began feeling like more of a job than a game. It became boring, and progression was frustrating. If you don't enjoy it anymore, no need to look for justification from the forums. Just do what's best for you and quit.

I see too many people already bored with warframe, but doesn't have the balls to move on. So they just stuck around the forums being salty about everything in the game, not really playing it.

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skip the 2 paragraphs if you want to quickly see my idea of how warframe pvp needs to work before it can be built upon. the 2 paragraphs explain why i think the pvp system in warframe just doesn't work.

for conclave, i think they should develop a list of weapons that are specifically made for conclave to begin with. balance them for pvp and force pvp back to the very basics (3 primary, 3 secondary, and 3 melee to pick from [back to basics because weapons can be added in updates]). average players don't want this complicated weapon system in pvp which attempts to adjust all the weapons in the game to be balanced, it doesn't work. it's too much. weapon mods further complicates it all and puts beginners from the get-go in pvp at a disadvantage, which isn't enjoyable and it's not welcoming the user to a fair match. combine this issue with the problem that weapons require components to upgrade them to support adding mods makes it even more problematic.

you then have the problem with too many warframes/abilities in pvp which weren't designed for a pvp system. and so each warframe has been adjusted to try and balance them all for pvp. not only that, the nature of the different abilities for each warframe are usually just not appropriate for pvp. and using a warframe you're familiar with can also be an issue because you're now trying to learn your warframe's pvp adjustments which is going to constantly conflict with your memory associated with pvm causing irritation to the player. the warframe abilities also don't expose the user as a danger to other players either, which causes confusing moments where the opponent says "what?" when they die. warframes are equipped with abilities you won't even see are coming which is a disaster for pvp which is why games like destiny 2, team fortress 2,  overwatch, and many others make abilities expose their users on use (except for invisiblity abilities). someone can approach you, activate their ability, and the victim is immediately confused because they don't really remember/know enough about that warframe or how it works. and then they're dead and thinking "eugh! e.e". they immediately think it's a bad system, it's met all their expectations of problems going in. and then they don't play conclave anymore. it's already hard enough just trying to kill players because of the movement! so here's my pvp framework which is a completely new system for pvp which can then be built upon in future updates...

my pvp framework/plan for warframe:

1. design a warframe, 1 to 3. (doesn't matter if it's only 1 because 1 is fair; 1 is easy to learn for all players; 1 that we can all be familiar with [grenade ability, one-shot stab ability, etc]). allow the warframe to also be used in pvm after unlocking. also make the warframe unable to be modded. build the warframe for a nice build that's permenantly locked for all players.

2. create a set of weapons, 2 to 3 of each category (2 primary, 2 secondary, 2 melee). allow the weapons to also be used in pvm after unlocking. make them unable to be modded. build the weapons for a nice build that's permenantly locked for all players.

3. prevent all other warframes and weapons from being used in pvp.

4. enjoyable maps which are unique but also have a simple environment to accomodate the movement system in this game. an example would be halo 3 valhalla.

 4.1 - "orokin bridge" that can be crossed with 2 routes; over the top of it through a maintenance section which also has the ability to adjust gravity on the road causing players to jump higher.

4.2 - "orokin train".

4.3 - "orokin cargo boat".

4.4 - "orokin aquarium".

4.5 - "orokin secret facility 21-C"

just a few unique map ideas.

anyway... this would be a back-to-basics pvp system that all players can jump straight into without having to invest hours researching how to make a good pvp setup, or having to wait for forma and all that. it would also create a very good pvp system base which can be built onto with future updates. everyone can only use the same warframe in pvp, or a choice of 3 warframes from future updates but they must be balanced, well thought out specifically for pvp. as for weapons, they have a choice of 6 weapons or maybe a few more from updates as long as they're all the only weapons which can be used in pvp, like a pvp loadout.

my rewards system for pvp:

prime upgrade/skin of each pvp weapon which is unlocked based on pvp prestige or something simple like an amount of pvp kills with that weapon (does not change the stats for this weapon in pvp but does change the stats for it in pvm!).

loot table per match:

10% chance of ayatan treasure.

pvp exclusive relics, similar to how railjack works.

very low % chance of prime warframe accessories being unlocked.

10 void traces per match.

and also put a bunch of cool things that can only be bought for plat too that relate to pvp. the thing with pvp for this specific game to make it work is that you need to give players a simple loadout selection, simple and large maps to accomodate the movement in this game so that's much much easier to kill players jumping around, and an endgame reward system such as the very low % chance of prime warframe accessories being unlocked. take a look at the map designs of some halo games and imagine them being used by 1, 2 or 3 warframes with a selection of balanced pvp weapons. take a look at that 1 map from halo 3 called valhalla and imagine it being used for a warframe pvp map. that's my vision.

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So much negativity from what appear to be some rather short-sighted people replying on this thread.

Feedback like this can aid developers in future content directions and decisions. I don't agree with everything said (eg not all missions really feeling the same, or that any Warframe can be used on any missions, especially SP), but a lot of it has merit: Game modes already in the game feeling watered down or forgotten - there are already game modes that can become another enjoyable aspect of Warframe instead of a 30 min distraction, or give variety without having to start a whole new endeavor such as RJ.

A simple example is the Help Clem missions - something I forgot about and only do for Nightwave. With a simply twist or two, this could actually become a more played mode eg, with each successful mission completion, Clem and associated missions level up and with enemies becoming stronger. Throw in some reward like a few Ducats or NW creds, anything that doesn't make it feel like a mandatory mission, yet helpful reward for any level and even high level players will have a reason to play the missions if they want since it can now be more challenging and rewarding, without actually feeling obligated to do so.

Finally, for those saying this has been said before, or this discussion has been opened before: So what? It simply indicates growing trend in sentiment amongst the player base, which again can help developers. Making THAT you main statement in a reply is the real waste of time.

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6 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Feedback like this can aid developers in future content directions and decisions.

Except the devs don’t read general discussion for that purpose. There is a feedback section. 

6 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Finally, for those saying this has been said before, or this discussion has been opened before: So what? It simply indicates growing trend in sentiment amongst the player base, which again can help developers. Making THAT you main statement in a reply is the real waste of time.

A few posts doesn’t equal a “growing trend”, though. Everyone gets tired of games after playing them for a while, WF is not unique in that regard. Go visit any random game’s forum and I guarantee you will see at least a couple of posts like this on every single one.

With a player base of 100k+ across all platforms, DE would be foolish to look at a couple negative forum posts and think “huh, we should change the game because of this.” No, that’s what the feedback section is for, so they can gather ALL of the feedback, analyze it, and react accordingly.

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19 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Better idea than working on mode that no one plays, delete conclave, move mods and cosmetics over to nightwave and steel path and work on the parts of the game people actually play.

 

Inb4 BuT NO oNe pLays RaiLJaCk!4!4!!!!

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6 hours ago, vanaukas said:

You'll be shocked when you realize that every single video game is just pressing buttons and seeing something on the screen

Maybe we will be alive when the "deep dive MMOs" like the .hack games become a thing.

Wait... but it would still be pressing buttons and seeing something on the screen wont it?

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Just now, Kaotyke said:

Maybe we will be alive when the "deep dive MMOs" like the .hack games become a thing.

Wait... but it would still be pressing buttons and seeing something on the screen wont it?

I don't know about .hack :(

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Except the devs don’t read general discussion for that purpose. There is a feedback section. 

A few posts doesn’t equal a “growing trend”, though. Everyone gets tired of games after playing them for a while, WF is not unique in that regard. Go visit any random game’s forum and I guarantee you will see at least a couple of posts like this on every single one.

With a player base of 100k+ across all platforms, DE would be foolish to look at a couple negative forum posts and think “huh, we should change the game because of this.” No, that’s what the feedback section is for, so they can gather ALL of the feedback, analyze it, and react accordingly.

From personal experience in the field, topics in Feedback sections as well as General Discussion and even other more obscure section has shaped the direction of games/projects. Despite you assertion, you don't actually know what impacts DE dev decision making, or to which degree.

You state things like there being "a few posts" or a "couple of negative comments", which isn't what I had argued at all.  You only use these terms to twist what I said, so as to justify your assertion. Your assertion, given your phrasing, can be argued to be correct, but unfortunately, it is an incorrect, poor representation of what I stated.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

You know what help better? Putting feedback into the feedback section. 

Now to help find the mystical land of the feedback section i made this gateway https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1219-feedback/

The OP justified the reason for placing his thread in this section. Hint: It is the very first line of his post ;)

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8 hours ago, Nanraku said:

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. Remember Conclave? The meme gamemode that nobody plays because it just wasn't enjoyable? Or even the arcade minigames that are so bugged and flawed? I would've loved to have some sort of pvp mode, but since DE couldn't make it work, they're not going to try again. Things like Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr seem really lazily put together, even though Frame Fighter could have been fun to play. It seems to me that DE would rather stay inside the box they built, rather than spend time fixing or adding things that might spice up the game a bit.

This is most if not all game developers. Take Overwatch for example(they usually listen to their community, usually), recently they've been way too scared to make changes to their characters that might drastically hurt the game. A neat example of this, is something that truly hurts as a player, is their April Fools event. As a joke they made a lot of "balancing" changes in their version of a public beta testing, it is fun as hell and honestly? They actually made good changes and things that would balance their characters... some are silly and just strange ofc(such as one of their tank character being able to float around freely) but the playerbase is trying to get them to keep some of these changes, but they see it as nothing more than a funny "April fools!" joke. I know that seems irrelevant but keep in mind I said, they usually listen to their playerbase and recently they've been too scared to make impactful changes. Blizzard as developers in Overwatch(not speaking for other games of theirs) have simply matured in a way, they don't want to experiment with their "hot new" project like they did at one time and they usually stay away from player advice now, they try keeping the game for what it is. Most game developers at this point either make a sequel(Overwatch 2, expected release 2022) or they introduce a totally different aspect from the main game(Railjack!). DE, in my opinion, is in a similar spot. They as developers have "matured" from their young and experimental type of development(I say young as in when warframe/overwatch was young) to a newer type of development where they focus on keeping money coming and trying to find the big new thing because they don't want to ruin what they've already built and try to ignore the flaws..

 

TL;DR Developers overtime begin to stray away from the main game or make sequels, so usually the content you're used to never gets a revamp, never gets an update, or never gets that cool update they promised in their "younger" days

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I would love to see some more story stuff in the game. The New War has been lingering for awhile without closure, and having stuff like the Duvari Paradox delayed due to the COVID stuff was rather disappointing (not a bash on DE, RL stuff just happens). The actual overall game -IS- very repetitive in terms of the general mission types, but also depends on what you're working on or focused towards.

 

The Invasion missions are a fairly nice shuffle and method for extra crafting materials if you're still needing to build stuff. The Marketplace and Dojo labs have a freaking TON of blueprints available via credits that allow for a ton of extra Mastery gains and experimenting. The whole Deimos and Necromech stuff is hit or miss for me, but there are a lot of extra weapons, pets, etc that can be collected and trained up. The new Railjack update has been a lot of fun, imo, solely getting able to use the Command function finally.

 

I'm not a big fan of Steel Path personally, I've been plugging at it periodically and things, but just making stuff extra bullet sponges for the sake of banging heads isn't as compelling to me versus having actual gameplay solutions. The Glassmaker fight is a prime example where YOUR Warframe ends up having very little to do with winning, it's about figuring out the mechanics. Considering we have a huge stable of Warframes, some method of being able to swap Frames or something would be cool, since I personally end up with using a specific handful of my favorites, and the rest either collect dust or get nom nom nomed by the Helminth.

 

Finally, Mastery really could use some love in figuring out what exactly it's meant to be in the game. The only real "progression" ends up being whatever you make it yourself based on the builds for your Warframe/weapons.

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2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The OP justified the reason for placing his thread in this section. Hint: It is the very first line of his post ;)

And it's utter bs, op just wants to share his negative feelings and wants people to agree with him instead of... Idk just leaving the game or taking a break instead of wanting the attention

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10 hours ago, Nanraku said:

I felt like I should share this on here, just to see if others feel the same way.

Note: I don't dislike Warframe as a concept, I like the story and universe it presents, and the movement capabilities are amazing. What I take issue with is mostly the lack of variety in anything. What I mean by this is it feels like all of the content is the same thing, just changed a tiny bit.

You jump around and shoot things. That's every mission. Even the missions where you rescue prisoners give you no incentive to actually escort them, you can just run to extraction (though to be fair, escort missions in any game are absolutely terrible to begin with). At a certain point, even the Warframe you choose doesn't matter in the end, since you could just pick a tank frame with a high-damage and fully kitted weapon and destroy anyways. Updates that present "new" content feel recycled to me, like the open world areas. They all feel very similar, and while they added small things like K-Drives and Necromechs, it's still the same point-and-click adventure game in the end. The story quests are really the only thing I can enjoy, just because they're well written. Other than that, the gameplay is repetitive and stale.

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. Remember Conclave? The meme gamemode that nobody plays because it just wasn't enjoyable? Or even the arcade minigames that are so bugged and flawed? I would've loved to have some sort of pvp mode, but since DE couldn't make it work, they're not going to try again. Things like Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr seem really lazily put together, even though Frame Fighter could have been fun to play. It seems to me that DE would rather stay inside the box they built, rather than spend time fixing or adding things that might spice up the game a bit.

I really, really want to enjoy this game. I did for a long time when it was released, but there came a point when it began feeling like more of a job than a game. It became boring, and progression was frustrating.

But yeah, just thought I would share. I'd like to hear other's opinions, too. 🙂

Have you ever thought of stepping out of the meta and going to something more akin to a covert rescue? Go alone. Take a loki. Sneak passed everything and only use stealth when you absolutely have to. Stealth kill all of the wardens. rescue the target and get out fast.

Sometimes, you need to make your own fun instead of relying on the devs to provide it.  I Solo Steel Path in a military style. I find cover, try and draw a single enemy, etc etc. Yes it takes longer but the bonus is more acolytes.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

And it's utter bs, op just wants to share his negative feelings and wants people to agree with him instead of... Idk just leaving the game or taking a break instead of wanting the attention

OP is expressing his opinion and how he feels. Your negativity is neither needed or wanted. I find your attitude of "OMG! SOME ONE INSULTED WARFRAME! RETALIATE" an elitist one and unwanted. Sick and tired of every time some one says somnething negative about the game, you fanbois feel the need to come to the rescue. I've been playing for 9 years now and Im really tired of it.  If you cant do more than haunt the forums(you  know... actually PLAY the game instead of defending every slight) maybe your fanboi side is insulted by you actually feeling the same way and you might need to take a break so that you can see that no game is worth being put on that high of a pedestal. It's not like he's a wow fan that joins every other game and then quits but not before posting in the world chat, "This game sucks. Im going back to WoW."

A more helpful way of dealing with it would be to ask about specifics and maybe find out a different game you know of is more suited to what he's looking ofr. Or giving some reason as to how the game got to this point. Being an a$$ doesnt help anyone. Every once in a while, people gotta vent. Better here than on a review somewhere or in steam he writes a negative review that the game is toxic because of your reply. You're not as important or smart as you think you are. Stop acting like you are. And note... it's more than just you being a toxic pain so dont get all sefl important and think you're the only one Im talking about.

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When Warframe goes from "mindless fun" to "brainless fun" is usually when I drop it and play something else. There's definitely something to be said for games where you're sort of mindlessly enjoying the explosions, noises, and guns going brrrr, and you can disgengage and zen out, just hitting buttons and making appreciative noises at the screen. 

But when it gets to being just stupid, then I say "I'm really not enjoying this anymore," and take a breather. The brainless point typically manifests when I've completed everything I intended to complete (say, ranking up new factions, buying whatever they sell, hitting a mastery milestone, etc) - when there's really nothing to do except run Hydron for some more affinity. 

My favorite and least-favorite parts are the woefully underdeveloped story-quests. They're the best part, because thank god finally some storyline, but they're also the worst part because a) they're usually pretty slapdash, b) they're often marred by inadvertent or intentional silliness, and c) they're like 3-5 missions that lead to a "0.504% chance on Rotation C" grind. I crave stories or even sequences of missions that have some sort of arc, but to just sort of peter out into "run this mission 219 times" is a disservice to the players and, IMO, discredits DE's creative abilities. 

As far as DE's refusal to go back and fix things - or, refusal's too strong - their discinclination to do so, I think it's about the money. What makes them money is new items, new grinds people need to pay to skip, and attracting new players. Fixing broken things nobody uses is not priority (that is, it might make players they already have go do that content more, but that isn't worth their time, because players they already have are pretty much captive anyway - it's not like we're going to leave en masse, even if we all like to swear to god we're gonna). 

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4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

From personal experience in the field, topics in Feedback sections as well as General Discussion and even other more obscure section has shaped the direction of games/projects. Despite you assertion, you don't actually know what impacts DE dev decision making, or to which degree.

Technically you’re correct, I don’t know for a fact that DE’s decisions won’t be impacted by this general discussion post from a user with one forum post ever, but I would bet my 401k that they won’t be.  

4 hours ago, Silligoose said:

You state things like there being "a few posts" or a "couple of negative comments", which isn't what I had argued at all.  You only use these terms to twist what I said, so as to justify your assertion. Your assertion, given your phrasing, can be argued to be correct, but unfortunately, it is an incorrect, poor representation of what I stated.

You said “feedback like this can aid devs in development” and alluded to a “growing trend” of posts like these, based on this one post. I just responded accordingly.

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46 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

When Warframe goes from "mindless fun" to "brainless fun" is usually when I drop it and play something else.

That about sums it up for me as well.

I came back, had my fun with Deimos, and currently am waiting on update 30 to hit Switch before even bothering coming back (I want an Athodai so badly...).

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I'm not sure what more you're expecting? The core gameplay of the game is to run around killing enemies with your arsenal of weapons/frames to farm drops that allow you access to more ways to run around and kill enemies.

Would you not expect another Borderlands to not involve more running/driving around killing enemies for hundreds of guns you won't use, another Super Mario to not involve platforming and jumping on enemies, another Fallout to not be in a post-apocalyptic retro-futuristic setting filled with meaningless story choices, or another Dark Souls to not involve more rolling, parrying, pain, and praising the sun?

There isn't any reason for these games or Warframe to go and reinvent their own wheel. It is a possibility for franchises to make sort of "spin-off" titles like how different games like Mario Odyssey or Bloodborne are from their earlier counterparts but for a live service like WF that's pretty much impossible.

 

As for the features that have flopped the minigames and Conclave aren't the focus of the game. The minigames are just one-off gags at most and Conclave failed because the game wasn't designed for PvP and DE failed to create a functional environment for it before the community decided "PvP bad". Conclave will never kick off like it could have just for how ingrained players distaste for the concept is now.

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